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KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22
Don’t give a range. Get thee to the negotiating thread.

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Lockback
Sep 3, 2006

All days are nights to see till I see thee; and nights bright days when dreams do show me thee.
No one will be upset if you negotiate, but based on what you said I sorta assume the salary will already be set and they may not be able to budge. You should still try, but just setting some expectations. Frequently the hiring managers, especially in they public sector, have far less control over adjustments like that than people think.

obi_ant posted:

Thanks for the reply! It is quite unfortunate, although on a brighter note, I'm willing to go back to school for something that I see suitable (the problem is knowing what I like). Which from the circles I'm around that's not an option or wanted. I usually perform pretty well for interviews (I think). I can speak to my achievements and successes well, but they're all retail related. The couple of times I've been turned down, the coordinating/hiring manager usually talks to me for 15-20 minutes for a rejection, which can't be normal.

What sort of certifications / schooling would I need to get my foot into the door for network security? How long does something like that take in terms something entry level?

I think one of the IT threads would give you better advice. I would like to see some sort of IT bachelor's but I admit I am probably overly biased to education vs certs. As far as how long, it's far more merit based, if you're smart (and you know how to automate well) you'll rise quickly. In my experience it's also a field that gets fired en masse pretty often, so less stress it is not.

RCarr
Dec 24, 2007

I'm looking into making a career change, and I've been looking at Radiation Therapy. Apparently you can get certified through a 1 year course, and the average salary is $80k a year. How realistic is this? Is it one of those things where you can get certified, but you'll never get hired anywhere without an actual degree?

C-Euro
Mar 20, 2010

:science:
Soiled Meat
I have a background in Chemistry, and for the past three years I've been doing Regulatory for a private manufacturer of FDA-regulated non-drug products (with a bit of work on EPA-regulated stuff in there too). It's fine and it's a stable position, but it's kind of low-level and I don't see a lot of room for advancement at my current employer. At the same time my wife is a biotech consultant and says that after a certain career level Regulatory experience is highly sought-after in the job market, so while I have some hangups about my role I'm willing to ascribe them to just not liking my specific role rather than disliking the field as a whole.

I was talking to one of our long-tenured research scientists the other day and he half-jokingly told me that if I really wanted to get ahead in Regulatory, I should do the following:
1. Take a government job writing/revising regulations.
2. Establish a new regulation.
3. Leave government and become a consultant specializing in the regulation that I just wrote.

Obviously it's not going to be as cut-and-dry as that, and this isn't a great administration to work under if I want to create new regulations, but what should I work on or look for if I want to get a regulatory role with a government agency (apart from cross-post this in the govt jobs thread)?

E: I live a big city with FDA, EPA, and USDA (aligns better with my previous work experience) offices in the area.

C-Euro fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Sep 9, 2018

RabbitMage
Nov 20, 2008
Tl;dr: tell me about being a consultant.

So I love my field, which is environmental education. I love my job, which offers some flexibility, excellent benefits, but impossibly low pay.

I interviewed for a new position this past week and didn't get it, but the possibility of being brought in as a consultant to help write curriculum, do some outreach, and get a fee-based program off the ground was brought up.

I know this isn't an uncommon thing--even my college advisor was contracting out with the Park Service to make signs over the summer--but I really don't know the first thing about consulting work. How do i set prices, find clients, protect myself legally, is this reasonable to do part-time, etc?

kedo
Nov 27, 2007

RabbitMage posted:

Tl;dr: tell me about being a consultant.

So I love my field, which is environmental education. I love my job, which offers some flexibility, excellent benefits, but impossibly low pay.

I interviewed for a new position this past week and didn't get it, but the possibility of being brought in as a consultant to help write curriculum, do some outreach, and get a fee-based program off the ground was brought up.

I know this isn't an uncommon thing--even my college advisor was contracting out with the Park Service to make signs over the summer--but I really don't know the first thing about consulting work. How do i set prices, find clients, protect myself legally, is this reasonable to do part-time, etc?

About a year ago I wrote a massive, try-hard OP about freelancing that got exactly one reply, but I can't find it now. I can talk about this stuff endlessly, so my apologies for the incoming wall of text! My opinionated answers to some of your questions:

How do i set prices?
You want to figure out your hourly rate first, and you can do so by using an hourly rate calculator or by doing the math by hand (or just ask your colleagues who already consult what they charge – it's somewhat uncouth to ask, but most folks will give you an honest answer). There are a lot of options, from really simple calculators to confusingly complex calculators. The simplest formula out there is: figure out what you want to make per year (X), estimate your costs (Y), and then how many hours per year you can realistically work (Z), and the formula becomes: (X–Y) / Z. So say you want to make $100k per year, minus $12k expenses and you can work 960 hours per year (20 billable hours per week for 48 weeks) – that work out to $91.67/hr. Doing the math like you intend to work full time makes it easier, but you can also do it using part time numbers. Just assume that no more than 50% of your time spent consulting will actually be billable. There's a lot of administrative work that comes with running your own business, especially in the first year, and you can't bill for the majority of it. If you picked a reasonable X number it'll cover those hours.

Of course whether or not you can actually charge that figure depends on how established you are in your industry and what your clients are willing to pay. Most people tend to underprice themselves at first, I know I did (I raised my rates by $20/hr within about two years). Another thing to consider is if you want to bill your clients hourly or based on a defined project scope at a specific dollar figure. Both have their pros and cons, but the short version is that scoped work can be far more profitable if you're efficient, but if you have a needy or difficult client it can be risky. Hourly is safe but less profitable.

find clients?
Word of mouth and referrals are your best friend. Tell every single person you know that you're available for consulting. No, really, I mean it. Every person you know. Don't rely on websites like Upwork or Elance (or whatever is popular in your industry), because those are scraping the bottom of the barrel client-wise.

When I was still working part time, my tactic for finding freelance work was A) to spend zero time actively seeking it, but B) to tell everyone I knew I was freelancing, and C) to accept every referred project that came my way. Most of them sucked right off the bat, but by throwing myself into the work and doing the best I could I was able to get some happy clients referring more and more work to me until I was able to quit my job and start freelancing full time. The quality of project I was offered slowly improved over time.

protect myself legally?
I'm not a lawyer, but the advice I got from lawyers (and every article online) was to form an LLC or s-corp or some sort of legal business entity. Use Legal Zoom to do so; trying to do it yourself is absolutely not worth your time, and any lawyer you talk to will say, "...yyeeaahhhh, I could do this for you, or you could just use Legal Zoom." This offers a layer of legal protection with the downside of an added administrative burden and making it harder to pay yourself since now you're an employee of a company you own (make sure you pay your taxes properly, according to my accountant new companies get audited a lot). Using a payroll service will save you time, but also take a cut out of your profits. I use Quickbooks to pay myself and it costs me like $90ish per pay period, but it means I don't have to spend time doing tax math myself. Amusingly, once you know your hourly rate it becomes really easy to determine whether or not a service like that is worth the money.

On the other hand, you can just start doing business right now as a sole proprietor, which just means you're doing business as an individual. The benefit of this is that you don't have any setup costs, but the dangers are that you don't have the legal protection of a corporation if someone wants to sue you (they just sue you which puts your personal assets at risk, whereas if you had a corporation they'd usually sue the business first and only your business assets would be at risk), and you have to keep track of withholding taxes yourself and then pay them at the end of the year.

Also consider either personal or business liability insurance. It's not that expensive and some bigger clients will actually require you have it in order to work with them.

is this reasonable to do part-time?
This depends entirely on what your other job is and how time consuming you expect both to be. When I started freelancing, most of my work was done on nights and weekends, and I occasionally had to step out of the office at my "real job" to take a call with a freelance client. Beware of burnout – working all day at a job and then all night and weekend at your side consulting gig can be exhausting.


e: Oh, and to answer the biggest, most important question you didn't even ask: always, always have a contract! Never do any work for a client without a contract that states what they'll get, what the terms are for your work, and how you'll get paid. If a client tries to brush off a contract, "oh we work with folks all the time without one, and we're really nice! Just trust us!" – RUN the other direction. A good contract protects both you and the client and ensures that you'll get paid, someday somehow, even if your client turns out to be the biggest jerk in the world. Google "[your industry] boilerplate consulting contract" and pick your favorite.

kedo fucked around with this message at 17:16 on Sep 15, 2018

Kim Jong Il
Aug 16, 2003

obi_ant posted:

Looking for some advice in terms of a new career path.

I've worked in retail management for many years and I'm done with it. I primarily worked within operations / inventory and services, lots of back-end stuff. I recently started job hunting and haven't gotten any real hits aside from more retail stuff. I have a BA in psychology, but did not end up pursuing a Masters. I am not adverse to going back to school for something short-term (1-2 years). I always thought eventually I would come to some sort of epiphany and realize what direction career wise I would go, but this isn't the case. I'm looking for suggestions in terms of a new career. I've looked at network/security engineering, medical sonographer, college counselor, HR services Coordinator etc. I'm basically all mixed up when it comes to this. Would it be beneficial for me to speak to a recruiter?

What are you good at? People person? Do marketing. Smart person? Teach yourself analytics. My employer has a significant large national retail presence, and a LOT of people with generic marketing type jobs worked their way up from the retail level.

In many cases, more academic credentialing doesn't have a high upside, and can lead to more debt.

General Probe
Dec 28, 2004
Has this been done before?
Soiled Meat
Seeking a little input if anyone has any. I'm claims adjuster handling Work Comp claims at a large TPA. This past Friday I found out my largest client is leaving for a competitor but not for service related reasons.

My manager discussed this with me prior top the announcement being made public and told me they are eyeing getting me a promotion to a senior adjuster position with a new set of clients in the coming days which is fine.

I've also been contacted by another manager in my company requesting that I apply for a position handling DBA claims for her, again as a senior.

Finally the big client has requested a private lunch meeting with me this week I believe for the purpose of asking me to move up the new TPA. My current employer did tell us during the announcement it's likely that the new TPA is likely to try to poach those of us the client likes.

This all came at me very suddenly and I'm struggling to figure out how best to navigate the situation. Should I pick the next position purely on pay and other benefits, do I nakedly play the positions against one another or just evaluate each offer as it comes in?

Lockback
Sep 3, 2006

All days are nights to see till I see thee; and nights bright days when dreams do show me thee.

General Probe posted:

do I nakedly play the positions against one another or just evaluate each offer as it comes in?

Basically both of these. I bet the lunch meeting would be the one where you have the most leverage, so take that (for sure) but you need to be prepared. Find out how much a senior claims adjuster makes in both the other cases (adjust accordingly if the job is better or worse than the new TPA). The promotion pay adjustment is probably more rigid than you think, usually managers don't have much say. You usually do get more leeway when hiring someone from the outside, especially if the client is asking for someone specific. So go into that meeting with a number in your head, and it probably should be higher than you think.

Get info on the senior role ASAP, if they are bothering to take you to lunch there is probably an offer and the promotions are never a sure thing, so you'll likely need to make a decision pretty quickly. You'll probably get the best offer from new TPA. Check glassdoor but I would expect senior adjuster is probably +/- 10% pay bump and I would look for +/- 25% increase if you're being sniped. This is just a guess, but its not unreasonable.

Congrats, its a fun thing when you get pursued like that. It's a good opportunity to suddenly accelerate your career and earnings a few years ahead in one swoop.

General Probe
Dec 28, 2004
Has this been done before?
Soiled Meat
Thank you, ended up taking the position handling DBA claims, got an 18% raise and will learn a new marketable skill. Plus I still have 3 months to see if my client who's leaving new TPA can match or beat my new salary.

Lockback
Sep 3, 2006

All days are nights to see till I see thee; and nights bright days when dreams do show me thee.

General Probe posted:

Thank you, ended up taking the position handling DBA claims, got an 18% raise and will learn a new marketable skill. Plus I still have 3 months to see if my client who's leaving new TPA can match or beat my new salary.

Perfect, well done.

KomeradeCanadian
Jun 22, 2014
I'm in a bad place, goons, and could really appreciate some career advice.

I have a BSc in Biology but 0 industry experience. Been applying but less and less, and slowed to a halt. A surgery cost me my survival job and currently unemployed, with another few months with my dominant hand in a sling.

Been applying to lab and ecology jobs, mostly in-province (Ontario). Is there any venues I may have missed? Any ideas on "thing that needs university degree in Biology, but no need for masters/phd"?

Thanks in advance

Lockback
Sep 3, 2006

All days are nights to see till I see thee; and nights bright days when dreams do show me thee.

KomeradeCanadian posted:

I'm in a bad place, goons, and could really appreciate some career advice.

I have a BSc in Biology but 0 industry experience. Been applying but less and less, and slowed to a halt. A surgery cost me my survival job and currently unemployed, with another few months with my dominant hand in a sling.

Been applying to lab and ecology jobs, mostly in-province (Ontario). Is there any venues I may have missed? Any ideas on "thing that needs university degree in Biology, but no need for masters/phd"?

Thanks in advance

Woof, that's a tough place. Have you considered going back to school?

Otherwise Pharmacy Tech is an ok job, but not much of a career. Some places will help fund education to be a Pharmacist, which could be a long-term plan.

Thirdly, what are your other skills? If your technical you can look at places like Medtronic to become a device tech for things like Pacemakers, that's a pretty neat job (lots of oncall though) and meeting those guys they come from all sorts of backgrounds, there is some technical skill required. If you are talky, medical device sales is super lucrative and a great way to pickup an early cocaine habit.

Lastly, you can just do a career switch and go to a (good) coding bootcamp or something. The degree still helps tremendously getting a job, but you'll need to spend months building skills.

I'm just spitballing here to help with some ideas, not really an expert in this field.

Jedi Knight Luigi
Jul 13, 2009
Yeah I personally would go the sales route in this situation but I’m definitely a work to live type of person, not the other way around.

KomeradeCanadian
Jun 22, 2014

Jedi Knight Luigi posted:

Yeah I personally would go the sales route in this situation but I’m definitely a work to live type of person, not the other way around.

I worked as a waiter, for several years. Unless you mean sales in pharmaceuticals, I don't think it's for me.

Lockback:

School, yes. Considered going to college as electrician, but feels like such a waste to not have a program that ties in with my degree. Pharmacy tech...could be interesting. I'll do some research.

Background is as follows: 3 years waiter, 1 security 3 electrical assembly and miscellaneous factory labour.

What's a coding bootcamp? And I'm looking at jobs at Medtronic, and they're all sales and marketing.

Lockback
Sep 3, 2006

All days are nights to see till I see thee; and nights bright days when dreams do show me thee.

KomeradeCanadian posted:

I worked as a waiter, for several years. Unless you mean sales in pharmaceuticals, I don't think it's for me.

Lockback:

School, yes. Considered going to college as electrician, but feels like such a waste to not have a program that ties in with my degree. Pharmacy tech...could be interesting. I'll do some research.

Background is as follows: 3 years waiter, 1 security 3 electrical assembly and miscellaneous factory labour.

What's a coding bootcamp? And I'm looking at jobs at Medtronic, and they're all sales and marketing.

Coding Bootcamps are basically "Learn Java, Angular JS, and other stuff in 12 weeks". There are good ones and bad ones and I wouldn't suggest it unless you have interest and some talent in programming. Many are getting bad reps, but my company recruits from there, and people do walk out of there to 60-80k jobs. But you can absolutely tell the difference between people who actually want to do that vs people who went into a bootcamp because they thought it would get them a good job but didn't have interest.

For Technician jobs it's stuff like this:
https://jobs.medtronic.com/jobs/field-services-rep-ii-51737

or this:

https://jobs.medtronic.com/jobs/technical-support-iii-51790

I've talked with a few of those guys, and it seemed like an interesting (though not easy) job and a real career, not just a job. Plus you literally save people's lives (or kill them, I guess!). The guys I talked to all had 4 year degrees but from different disciplines. Obv find the right med device company by you, I'm in Minnesota so it's basically throw a rock.

For school don't get lost in sunk cost. If right now your best future is going the electrician route do that, but take a bit of time and understand your options. A BS in Biology is not going to open tons of doors, but having the Bachelors in general does help quite a bit.

REMEMBER SPONGE MONKEYS
Oct 3, 2003

What do you think it means, bitch?
I&E techs and electricians are in such high demand in the oil field you basically can’t not get hired. Guys before they graduate school have employers lined up with offers in-hand. FWIW.

KomeradeCanadian
Jun 22, 2014
Ok, thank you very much.

Jedi Knight Luigi
Jul 13, 2009

KomeradeCanadian posted:

I worked as a waiter, for several years. Unless you mean sales in pharmaceuticals, I don't think it's for me.

Yeah I meant medical device sales like the guy said. My friend did it for a while and it was really good money but he went back to bartending because he hated driving around so much.

KomeradeCanadian
Jun 22, 2014
Sorry, I just have no clue on that industry, to a comical degree. Like the first question I'd ask is "is it like The Office?" How would you explain "sales" to a completely ignorant person? I wouldn't even know how to structure a resume to apply there.

Because I could care less about travel, I liked driving at other jobs.

KomeradeCanadian fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Oct 17, 2018

Lockback
Sep 3, 2006

All days are nights to see till I see thee; and nights bright days when dreams do show me thee.

KomeradeCanadian posted:

Sorry, I just have no clue on that industry, to a comical degree. Like the first question I'd ask is "is it like The Office?" How would you explain "sales" to a completely ignorant person? I wouldn't even know how to structure a resume to apply there.

Because I could care less about travel, I liked driving at other jobs.

It's building relationships, understanding the breadth and depth of the product line, managing a pre-sales engagement. I dunno, some people love it others don't. If you're the kind of guy who can make someone think you're their best friend over a drink, you'll make (literally) millions. But it can be long hours and up and down pay.

TheOtherContraGuy
Jul 4, 2007

brave skeleton sacrifice
I have an undergrad degree in biochemistry and a graduate degree in Data Science (all coursework, no thesis). I lead a team of four data scientists at a job I really enjoy and pays me well. I've been working at this company for about 2 years.

I have brain worms and want to do research. Should I quit my job and do a PhD? I'd specifically like to be an applied machine learning researcher for a biotechnology company or university. Is my professional degree going to really hurt me here?

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Can you get strong letters of recommendation that will speak to your ability to do research?

TheOtherContraGuy
Jul 4, 2007

brave skeleton sacrifice
I think I can get two. I've been published a few times.

Dik Hz
Feb 22, 2004

Fun with Science

TheOtherContraGuy posted:

I have an undergrad degree in biochemistry and a graduate degree in Data Science (all coursework, no thesis). I lead a team of four data scientists at a job I really enjoy and pays me well. I've been working at this company for about 2 years.

I have brain worms and want to do research. Should I quit my job and do a PhD? I'd specifically like to be an applied machine learning researcher for a biotechnology company or university. Is my professional degree going to really hurt me here?
Do you want to make $25k/year for 6 years to qualify for a job that pays less than you're currently making? If so, get the PhD.

If you can lead a technical team and deliver results, I think your next 6 years will probably be better spent beefing up those skills and making connections in the industry.

Somaen
Nov 19, 2007

by vyelkin
Hello goons, I am in a bit of a rut and would like to ask your collective infinite wisdom for advice. For background, I am from a small poor EU country. Our main university pumps out a lot of physics bachelors. Most of my coursemates either went into graduate programs or IT for QA or software engineering. I went the sysadmin path and do networking + Windows servers. I don't like it anymore and would like to change, or at least move up. Maybe someone had a similar experience? I am curious if there are career paths with good prospects that combine physics and IT. Data science or machine learning are the only things that comes to my mind due to the mathematical/statistical background. Maybe there are some other obvious directions that I am missing?

TheOtherContraGuy
Jul 4, 2007

brave skeleton sacrifice

Somaen posted:

Hello goons, I am in a bit of a rut and would like to ask your collective infinite wisdom for advice. For background, I am from a small poor EU country. Our main university pumps out a lot of physics bachelors. Most of my coursemates either went into graduate programs or IT for QA or software engineering. I went the sysadmin path and do networking + Windows servers. I don't like it anymore and would like to change, or at least move up. Maybe someone had a similar experience? I am curious if there are career paths with good prospects that combine physics and IT. Data science or machine learning are the only things that comes to my mind due to the mathematical/statistical background. Maybe there are some other obvious directions that I am missing?

I have a friend who develops the algorithm behind this career assessment. It's free, and I don't get any referral bonus, I think that it's more accurate than other assessments I've seen.

What is it about sysadmin that you don't like?

With a little bit of retooling you could probably call yourself a data engineer or DevOps for a nice pay bump. If the tedium of SysAdmin is what's bringing you down, then I'm not sure I'd recommend either of those. If you like statistics, I'd recommend data science, but that's what I do so I'm biased.

Somaen
Nov 19, 2007

by vyelkin

TheOtherContraGuy posted:

I have a friend who develops the algorithm behind this career assessment. It's free, and I don't get any referral bonus, I think that it's more accurate than other assessments I've seen.

What is it about sysadmin that you don't like?

With a little bit of retooling you could probably call yourself a data engineer or DevOps for a nice pay bump. If the tedium of SysAdmin is what's bringing you down, then I'm not sure I'd recommend either of those. If you like statistics, I'd recommend data science, but that's what I do so I'm biased.

It told me to become a robotics engineer which is a pretty cool suggestion, I will check if we have any jobs like that

I think I am tired of the current workplace, not specifically the system administration role, though a better sense of purpose and meaning in the work would be nice. I have access to Pluralsight online courses and I am definitely ready to do some self-studying to retool, however I am not sure what to focus on. Say for DevOps I had the impression that it required Linux+Cloud+scripting, however just last week I was at a DevOps workshop and it was all CI/CD stuff that was interesting but seemed to require deep software engineering knowledge. Can a role more focused on infrastructure without the coding part be called devops?

Data science seems cool too, could you describe what your average day looks like, what do you work with?

Jordan7hm
Feb 17, 2011




Lipstick Apathy
It says I should look into being a CEO or chief executive. I’ll get right on that.

Mr Newsman
Nov 8, 2006
Did somebody say news?
Your career is a journey, CEOs don't get there overnight.

simplefish
Mar 28, 2011

So long, and thanks for all the fish gallbladdΣrs!


Mr Newsman posted:

Your career is a journey, CEOs don't get there overnight.

I mean, you can start an LLC in an afternoon, so...

yes I know that's not what you meant

TheOtherContraGuy
Jul 4, 2007

brave skeleton sacrifice

Somaen posted:

It told me to become a robotics engineer which is a pretty cool suggestion, I will check if we have any jobs like that

I think I am tired of the current workplace, not specifically the system administration role, though a better sense of purpose and meaning in the work would be nice. I have access to Pluralsight online courses and I am definitely ready to do some self-studying to retool, however I am not sure what to focus on. Say for DevOps I had the impression that it required Linux+Cloud+scripting, however just last week I was at a DevOps workshop and it was all CI/CD stuff that was interesting but seemed to require deep software engineering knowledge. Can a role more focused on infrastructure without the coding part be called devops?

Data science seems cool too, could you describe what your average day looks like, what do you work with?

DevOps, like data science, doesn't seem to have a really solid definition. The DevOps people I work with do all of the SysAdmin stuff that you are used to, but they also write database schemas, Dockerfiles and help architect our data pipeline.

I'm the technical lead of a data science team of 3 data scientists and an intern. I usually get about 3 hours of "deep work" done where I'm programming or reviewing code in Python (data pipelining, building features, building predictive models) or R (analysis and visualization). That part is great. I have a couple hours of meetings a day where I'm reporting out progress, answering questions or trying to get other teams to get us what we need. That part is less great. I also spend time doing literature reviews and mentoring newer members of the company. That part is really great.

I have a very satisfying job but it took a lot of work to get where I am. I usually spend an extra couple of hours a day teaching myself new techniques or reading papers.

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007


TheOtherContraGuy posted:

DevOps, like data science, doesn't seem to have a really solid definition. The DevOps people I work with do all of the SysAdmin stuff that you are used to, but they also write database schemas, Dockerfiles and help architect our data pipeline.

I'm the technical lead of a data science team of 3 data scientists and an intern. I usually get about 3 hours of "deep work" done where I'm programming or reviewing code in Python (data pipelining, building features, building predictive models) or R (analysis and visualization). That part is great. I have a couple hours of meetings a day where I'm reporting out progress, answering questions or trying to get other teams to get us what we need. That part is less great. I also spend time doing literature reviews and mentoring newer members of the company. That part is really great.

I have a very satisfying job but it took a lot of work to get where I am. I usually spend an extra couple of hours a day teaching myself new techniques or reading papers.

If you were looking to hire someone entry level for your team, what would you be looking for? Would you be open to people who have degrees outside of computer science?

Lockback
Sep 3, 2006

All days are nights to see till I see thee; and nights bright days when dreams do show me thee.

KillHour posted:

If you were looking to hire someone entry level for your team, what would you be looking for? Would you be open to people who have degrees outside of computer science?

I used to run a data science team and now I have people who do a wider range of stuff, but data-digging is still on our menu.

No Comp-Sci is fine, but demonstrate your skills. Have a github with real stuff. I would look right past the degree if you had a app that screen scraped a bunch of NBA stats and fed it into some off-the-shelf open-source tensorflow implementation and let it spit out gibberish. If you can show you built something end-to-end, even if it's worthless, you'll immediately look good for $80k+ entry-level jobs.

Another manager I knew hired a guy for $120k based entirely on him coming in 2nd once for a kaggle competition (which I thought was kind of jumping the gun, but that's data science for you!). Doing some of the easier ones is probably a good place to start. Your background is a fine fit for that if you can sharpen your python and java.

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007


Lockback posted:

I used to run a data science team and now I have people who do a wider range of stuff, but data-digging is still on our menu.

No Comp-Sci is fine, but demonstrate your skills. Have a github with real stuff. I would look right past the degree if you had a app that screen scraped a bunch of NBA stats and fed it into some off-the-shelf open-source tensorflow implementation and let it spit out gibberish. If you can show you built something end-to-end, even if it's worthless, you'll immediately look good for $80k+ entry-level jobs.

Another manager I knew hired a guy for $120k based entirely on him coming in 2nd once for a kaggle competition (which I thought was kind of jumping the gun, but that's data science for you!). Doing some of the easier ones is probably a good place to start. Your background is a fine fit for that if you can sharpen your python and java.

Thanks for the info. I personally find data science really cool but the question was mostly for my SO, who has a sociology background. I've been pushing her to put together a Github so maybe this will light a fire under her butt to do that.

TheOtherContraGuy
Jul 4, 2007

brave skeleton sacrifice

KillHour posted:

Thanks for the info. I personally find data science really cool but the question was mostly for my SO, who has a sociology background. I've been pushing her to put together a Github so maybe this will light a fire under her butt to do that.

My team has undergraduate degrees in Biochemistry (me), Animal Welfare, Finance, Learning Science, and English Literature. Three of us also have graduate degrees in statistics/data science.

TheOtherContraGuy
Jul 4, 2007

brave skeleton sacrifice

KillHour posted:

If you were looking to hire someone entry level for your team, what would you be looking for? Would you be open to people who have degrees outside of computer science?

We look for people who can code in Python and R in a way that won't break everything when they merge. We also expect everyone to be able to reason about and defend their modeling decisions, which means knowing the classic models rather deeply. We also need people who can communicate ideas with people who aren't also data scientists.

Somaen
Nov 19, 2007

by vyelkin

TheOtherContraGuy posted:

DevOps, like data science, doesn't seem to have a really solid definition. The DevOps people I work with do all of the SysAdmin stuff that you are used to, but they also write database schemas, Dockerfiles and help architect our data pipeline.

I'm the technical lead of a data science team of 3 data scientists and an intern. I usually get about 3 hours of "deep work" done where I'm programming or reviewing code in Python (data pipelining, building features, building predictive models) or R (analysis and visualization). That part is great. I have a couple hours of meetings a day where I'm reporting out progress, answering questions or trying to get other teams to get us what we need. That part is less great. I also spend time doing literature reviews and mentoring newer members of the company. That part is really great.

I have a very satisfying job but it took a lot of work to get where I am. I usually spend an extra couple of hours a day teaching myself new techniques or reading papers.

TheOtherContraGuy posted:

We look for people who can code in Python and R in a way that won't break everything when they merge. We also expect everyone to be able to reason about and defend their modeling decisions, which means knowing the classic models rather deeply. We also need people who can communicate ideas with people who aren't also data scientists.

Lockback posted:

I used to run a data science team and now I have people who do a wider range of stuff, but data-digging is still on our menu.

No Comp-Sci is fine, but demonstrate your skills. Have a github with real stuff. I would look right past the degree if you had a app that screen scraped a bunch of NBA stats and fed it into some off-the-shelf open-source tensorflow implementation and let it spit out gibberish. If you can show you built something end-to-end, even if it's worthless, you'll immediately look good for $80k+ entry-level jobs.

Another manager I knew hired a guy for $120k based entirely on him coming in 2nd once for a kaggle competition (which I thought was kind of jumping the gun, but that's data science for you!). Doing some of the easier ones is probably a good place to start. Your background is a fine fit for that if you can sharpen your python and java.

Thank you both for sharing, this is so reassuring :)

Besides statistics itself and Python, are there other tools or skills that come to your mind that should be known before applying, as opposed to learning on the job? I am guessing whether it is R/Java or something else depends on the specifics of the workplace?
What about the devops teams that help you?

Lockback
Sep 3, 2006

All days are nights to see till I see thee; and nights bright days when dreams do show me thee.
Java, because you'll probably work with a company that does everything else with it.
DB experience, ideally something like Cassandra/Hadoop/Mongo but Oracle and MSSql too.
If you want to do AI and deep learning, some experience with at least a high level toolset like Keras. It's pretty easy to build something simple using Keras and it looks great on a resume.
Some AWS/Azure experience. Get free accounts for both and figure out how to spin up a quick environment.

That list is a pretty robust toolset, the actual skills are problem solving, communicating with stakeholders in a clear way to bridge the gap between domain knowledge and data, and being able to present findings.

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DaveSauce
Feb 15, 2004

Oh, how awkward.
I need some short term advice about quitting a job when I don't have anything lined up.

First thing is: I'm an engineer. I'm in controls/industrial automation, so I'm in a pretty in-demand field. I'm a bit outside my element since my area has a lot of Pharma, and I don't have that experience... but even so there are plenty of places I can take a job if I need to.

Some background: a short while back, our office was shut down. We were a small satellite office that was costing way too much to operate. They kept a few people as work-from-home employees, myself being one of them. But with that, the little respect we had as an office seems to have completely vanished. Not just that, but new work assigned to me has dried up, and I'm only getting scraps tossed my way. That aside, the main issue is that I have zero opportunity for advancing my career now at this company.

So now, my motivation has dwindled to nothing in the past 2 months.

Of course, I've been actively looking for a new job. At first I was being picky, but since I haven't received any solid offers yet I'm starting to broaden my search a bit. I currently have 2 successful phone interviews that are awaiting an in-person interview in the next week or two. I have one "offer" that I interviewed for and they say they want to hire me, but may not be able to for 6-10 weeks... so I kind of have a back-up plan, but there's nothing on paper so I'm not considering that to be real.

Anyhow, I want to quit. Like, now... My plan was to give notice today or yesterday, but I decided to postpone it until next Monday. From a business standpoint, it's a really good time and gives my boss plenty of time to shuffle resources to take over what little I have assigned to me. Also, the things I am assigned to are going to mess up the holidays for me, so I'd like to get out of that soon so I can see my family this year.

But again, I don't have anything solid lined up. I have some good leads and promising opportunities, but nothing concrete. We can afford it financially, but professionally I don't want to have too much of a gap. My assumption is that I'll have something by the end of January, but that's not a guarantee.

So how terrible of an idea is this? I'm trying to justify it by telling myself I could have been laid off, so the fact that I've been getting a paycheck this long is better than nothing. I desperately don't want to be working for this company anymore, but I fear getting to the end of January and not having anything lined up yet.

DaveSauce fucked around with this message at 15:49 on Nov 21, 2018

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