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Boy, these free speech champions get really mad when a private company chooses to exercise their rights. I guess they would prefer to have the government step in and decide what this business is allowed to do.
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Oct 30, 2018 05:53
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if rpg.net is wholly owned and hosted in America, what can the EU do to it for violating its law?
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Oct 30, 2018 08:14
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clockworkjoe posted:if rpg.net is wholly owned and hosted in America, what can the EU do to it for violating its law? Get an American court to levy noncompliance penalties against the site as long as it continues to provide service to EU residents, just like every other civil law enforcement via international treaty situation.
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Oct 30, 2018 08:24
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dwarf74 posted:The answer now is, unfortunately, "because the EU says you have to." I don't think actual posts would count as personal data as long as nothing in them could be used to identify the person who made them. Deleting the account and removing the IP logs would probably be enough.
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Oct 30, 2018 08:40
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Comrade Koba posted:I don't think actual posts would count as personal data as long as nothing in them could be used to identify the person who made them. Deleting the account and removing the IP logs would probably be enough. I’m not sure. The UK and later the EU supported the Right To Be Forgotten, which basically means that if you make a dumb forum post when you’re 16 you have the right to not have employers Googling it when you’re 35 - or more seriously that when a legal conviction is spent and no longer needs to be declared, people shouldn’t be able to find out about it anyway with a search.
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Oct 30, 2018 11:40
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hyphz posted:I’m not sure. The UK and later the EU supported the Right To Be Forgotten, which basically means that if you make a dumb forum post when you’re 16 you have the right to not have employers Googling it when you’re 35 - or more seriously that when a legal conviction is spent and no longer needs to be declared, people shouldn’t be able to find out about it anyway with a search. Now I'm curious. Does that extend to needing to censor archival news sources that mention it?
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Oct 30, 2018 11:45
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Liquid Cannibalism posted:Now I'm curious. Does that extend to needing to censor archival news sources that mention it? If I recall correctly, it doesn’t have to be deleted but it has to not be searchable? It’s complicated basically.. they’re saying that somehow the internet has to be like the old microfiche archives where everything is there, but nobody would spend hours combing it to find that Fred Muggins shoplifted some Pokemon cards 10 years ago. hyphz fucked around with this message at 12:07 on Oct 30, 2018 |
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Oct 30, 2018 11:58
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Kai Tave posted:I'm not really sure how you can square "we want to be an open and accepting social community where normally marginalized people can feel comfortable" with "and we allow people to openly praise and support the Trump administration" so this seems like a pretty inevitable endpoint.
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Oct 30, 2018 12:00
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Zereth posted:You 100% can not do both. Exactly, and the people who are complaining about it largely seem to be annoyed that the mod staff is calling it what it is instead of continuing to try and pretend that the Trump administration, and by extension the Republican party in aggregate, isn't inundated top to bottom with this poo poo. Like the guy complaining about how this policy would make his Republican friends unwelcome because they supposedly hate Trump but also hate abortions so much they voted for Trump anyway and it's like good, they should be made to feel unwelcome, that's a feature and not a bug.
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Oct 30, 2018 12:21
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hyphz posted:If I recall correctly, it doesn’t have to be deleted but it has to not be searchable? It’s complicated basically.. they’re saying that somehow the internet has to be like the old microfiche archives where everything is there, but nobody would spend hours combing it to find that Fred Muggins shoplifted some Pokemon cards 10 years ago. That seems incredibly backwards, and flies in the face of making periodicals useful to anyone. Like, I get what they're going for, but the cat's out of the bag and our every little action is in a semi-permanent online record across international borders now, and we're never going to be able to go back to the 1980's when society would eventually forget things. Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at 12:40 on Oct 30, 2018 |
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Oct 30, 2018 12:36
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quote:Driving off customers or potential customers doesn't seem like a winning strategy. For me at least the preferred political stance of where I get my entertainment and interact with other is non-political as politics creeps into evermore facets of every ones life. In addition, the cultural value of free speech is under immense attack from both partisans of the right and the left. That is a sad devolution of society and I for one am more apt to support and patronize businesses, organizations, and people that actually embrace the cultural value of free speech regardless if I agree with most or any of what they say. Truly RPG.net is doomed, without the economic patronage of the college libertarian party.
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Oct 30, 2018 12:41
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Isn't obfuscating the posts under a user name sufficient protection? Unless I provide clients or my employer with the tools to check out my opinions on Warhammer 40k, it's not likely to happen.
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Oct 30, 2018 12:51
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Does rpg net have customers? What do they buy?
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Oct 30, 2018 13:02
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Mors Rattus posted:Does rpg net have customers? What do they buy? Membership, and the parent company, Skotos, runs paid muds iirc
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Oct 30, 2018 13:24
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Mors Rattus posted:Does rpg net have customers? What do they buy? Everyone is a customer, even if they didn't have ads and things they are still providing the service of a forum. Groups that provide services for free are pretty much always a business unless the are specifically a non profit one.
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Oct 30, 2018 13:31
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Angrymog posted:Membership, and the parent company, Skotos, runs paid muds iirc I really doubt they make any money from those any more. They were a comically bad idea.
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Oct 30, 2018 13:59
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The RPG industry could learn a thing or two by now about toxic customers.
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Oct 30, 2018 14:02
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Liquid Cannibalism posted:the cat's out of the bag it isn't though? as long as you can sue the offending parties the cat instantly goes back in, and the eu data protection laws allow that
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Oct 30, 2018 14:16
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Liquid Cannibalism posted:That seems incredibly backwards, and flies in the face of making periodicals useful to anyone. I mean, I get it - but if I was RPGnet I'd probably get some expert help/advice. There's got to be lawyers/barristers with the proper background slumming around the site somewhere. This is what I've found so far and it seems like RPGnet is non-compliant. https://blog.vanillaforums.com/community-answers-to-common-questions-about-gdpr-community-forums
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Oct 30, 2018 14:42
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dwarf74 posted:Eh, I'm actually kinda stumped why they won't permaban on request over there. Seems like a weird loving thing when they literally permabanned two people for flouncing - and I said as much over there. I'm not an Admin over there anymore - I'm retired. But in the past there were a LOT of problems with people asking to be banned, then asking to be unbanned later. It got ridiculous - "can you ban me for Finals week starting on Tuesday morning, then unban me on Friday afternoon at 4:30 PM?" After a while the answer just became "no."
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Oct 30, 2018 14:52
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Cessna posted:I'm not an Admin over there anymore - I'm retired. But in the past there were a LOT of problems with people asking to be banned, then asking to be unbanned later. It got ridiculous - "can you ban me for Finals week starting on Tuesday morning, then unban me on Friday afternoon at 4:30 PM?" Funny thing is you could probably do that here.
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Oct 30, 2018 15:01
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dwarf74 posted:Part of the whole point of the legislation was to reverse that trend. Yea, I see the practical issue but I also see the counter argument, that technological innovation should not be the be-all-end-all determiner of how society works.
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Oct 30, 2018 15:01
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Goa Tse-tung posted:it isn't though? as long as you can sue the offending parties the cat instantly goes back in, and the eu data protection laws allow that Who are you going to sue? The NSA? Every offshore hosting outfit in a country that doesn't recognize EU law and which there is no legal standing to force to comply? This might have worked 15-20 years ago. Cloud hosting these days means that it doesn't really matter much where your data is physically located until it's time to figure out who to sue, and once information's out on the publicly accessible Internet it is effectively as good as mirrored everywhere if someone has an interest in it.
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Oct 30, 2018 15:03
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Funny thing is you could probably do that here. There was a guy who basically asked to be banned until same sex marriage was legal because he didn't need to waste time here when he could be doing activism and I'm p sure he got unbanned when they did the thing
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Oct 30, 2018 15:03
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Funny thing is you could probably do that here. asking for sixers for productivity's sake is cool and good
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Oct 30, 2018 15:17
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Cessna posted:I'm not an Admin over there anymore - I'm retired. But in the past there were a LOT of problems with people asking to be banned, then asking to be unbanned later. It got ridiculous - "can you ban me for Finals week starting on Tuesday morning, then unban me on Friday afternoon at 4:30 PM?" "You guys are awful, I'm leaving forever" gets a perma. "Please ban me because you guys are awful and I'm leaving forever" doesn't. It's moon-logic. Arguing with that idiot took a lot more time than just banning him would have.
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Oct 30, 2018 15:38
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hyphz posted:I’m not sure. The UK and later the EU supported the Right To Be Forgotten, which basically means that if you make a dumb forum post when you’re 16 you have the right to not have employers Googling it when you’re 35 - or more seriously that when a legal conviction is spent and no longer needs to be declared, people shouldn’t be able to find out about it anyway with a search. Exactly, but the only thing you would need to do to achieve that is to remove the personal information regarding who made the post. It's hard for your employer to google your opinions on animes and 40K if all your posts only show up as written by <DUMBASS EUROGOON> with no IP address.
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Oct 30, 2018 15:44
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dwarf74 posted:I still don't get it though, at least in that thread over the course of literally like three pages. I'm not here to argue, sorry. I can explain the original reasoning, but that's all.
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Oct 30, 2018 15:48
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Cessna posted:I'm not here to argue, sorry. I can explain the original reasoning, but that's all.
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Oct 30, 2018 16:04
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It's all good, no worries.
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Oct 30, 2018 16:11
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RPG.net really need to get someone in who knows WTF they're talking about with regards to GDPR and their "We don't delete a user's post or accounts on request" policy, because from a layman's PoV, yeah, they're in violation, and whilst an elfgames forum is small fry compared to other targets for the ICO (or whichever body enforces GDPR) the legislation doesn't actually give a drat about how big your business is.
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Oct 30, 2018 16:17
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Liquid Cannibalism posted:Who are you going to sue? The NSA? Every offshore hosting outfit in a country that doesn't recognize EU law and which there is no legal standing to force to comply? At the first remove you tell customer-facing service provider Website X to delete the data or else. If Website X claim they don't have the data, they sold it to a third party they can't control, you roll your eyes and take them to court for failing to comply with regulations for keeping personal data private, that is, not selling it to other people who'll abuse it. If non-EU regulations prevent you from enforcing compliance on a non-EU party you roll your eyes some more and issue a directive noting that it's now punishable for EU ISPs to assist Website X in data mishandling, and watch as Website X loses 99.9% of its EU customers because the only way to visit Website X is through a proxy in Switzerland. This is rarely done, but the short of it is that a state can deny a foreign business from doing service in their country for failing to comply with local regulation, and this extends to online business too.
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Oct 30, 2018 16:19
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LatwPIAT posted:At the first remove you tell customer-facing service provider Website X to delete the data or else. If Website X claim they don't have the data, they sold it to a third party they can't control, you roll your eyes and take them to court for failing to comply with regulations for keeping personal data private, that is, not selling it to other people who'll abuse it. Sure, if you want to balkanize your network and make it impossible for your citizens to do business on the Internet.
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Oct 30, 2018 16:26
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That does seem to be the goal.
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Oct 30, 2018 16:41
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Liquid Cannibalism posted:Sure, if you want to balkanize your network and make it impossible for your citizens to do business on the Internet. https://www.techrepublic.com/article/the-eu-general-data-protection-regulation-gdpr-the-smart-persons-guide/ See specifically the bit about "Right to be Forgotten" quote:Under the GDPR, companies will erase all personal data when asked to do so by the data subject. At that point, the company will cease further dissemination of the data, and halt all processing. Valid conditions for erasure include situations where the data is no longer relevant, or the original purpose has been satisfied, or merely a data subject's subsequent withdrawal of consent.
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Oct 30, 2018 17:00
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That's personal user data, though. Does this guy think it extends to public posts he made?
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Oct 30, 2018 17:18
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moths posted:That's personal user data, though. Does this guy think it extends to public posts he made?
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Oct 30, 2018 17:30
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moths posted:That's personal user data, though. Does this guy think it extends to public posts he made? They can clear the user profile and probably anonymize the user name. I've seen that on the Stacks, user2415 showing up on old posts. Actually erasing the posts probably isn't possible, given they may be quoted with or without attribution.
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Oct 30, 2018 17:34
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moths posted:That's personal user data, though. Does this guy think it extends to public posts he made? quote:The GDPR defines personal data as any information related to a natural person (data subject) that can be used to directly or indirectly identify that person. It can be anything from a name, a photo, an email address, bank details, posts on social networking websites, medical information, or even a computer IP address.
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Oct 30, 2018 18:18
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Huh. I guess then it comes down to whether or not 1) a forum is considered social media, and 2) if a username is considered personal. To me, both are obviously "no." But I completely understand that stranger things happen in law than I'd expect. E: "Directly or indirectly" adds a laughable amount of vagueness to this, holy poo poo. moths fucked around with this message at 19:09 on Oct 30, 2018 |
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Oct 30, 2018 19:07
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