|
Hostile V posted:For those of you who haven't read the free stuff, here's what you're missing and why you should stay the gently caress away. Isn't it great how the incoherence of the preview material is such a perfect encapsulation of everyone's worst assumptions about the game?
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2018 18:44
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 09:27 |
|
|
So it sounds like Monte read the 2e Mage book and the 1e Mage book for nameless orders while getting wasted on listerine, then decided he'd make his own system based off all that while wacked out on research chemicals.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2018 19:01
|
|
|
Monte Cuck
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2018 19:11
|
|
|
Nuns with Guns posted:Isn't it great how the incoherence of the preview material is such a perfect encapsulation of everyone's worst assumptions about the game?
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2018 19:19
|
|
|
Where are the anal bead wizards, monte
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2018 19:20
|
|
|
Invisible Sun annoys me because an invisible sun would be a cool concept to grow a fantasy setting around.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2018 19:26
|
|
|
Splicer posted:Invisible Sun annoys me because an invisible sun would be a cool concept to grow a fantasy setting around. It's a reference to the work by Browne, 'Urn Burial, which is often referenced as a source of occult inspiration. " Life is a pure flame, and we live by an invisible sun within us. A small fire sufficeth for life, great flames seemed too little after death." It's not being used well, here.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2018 19:30
|
|
|
Joe Slowboat posted:It's a reference to the work by Browne, 'Urn Burial, which is often referenced as a source of occult inspiration. I thought it was based on a song by the police?
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2018 19:43
|
|
|
Robotic Folksinger posted:I thought it was based on a song by the police? porque no los dos More seriously I suspect it's via Sting, but Sting & the Police like to reference things like this; I get the sense Sting was into the occult at some point.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2018 19:53
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2018 21:33
|
|
|
lol
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2018 21:36
|
|
|
wow bad moran fanfiction by someone who doesn't really 'get' moran really was the best summary, and maybe a bit of "No, I never read Sandman, but I saw a few episodes of Lucifer, so close enough" thrown in.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2018 21:44
|
|
|
Joe Slowboat posted:porque no los dos You could probably write a paper on the occult symbolism in Sting & the Police, but that doesn't change that Invisible Sun is a bad incomprehensibly presented game.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2018 21:56
|
|
|
Joe Slowboat posted:I get the sense Sting was into the occult at some point. I mean there was that time he botched an exorcism in Newcastle.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2018 22:05
|
|
|
I'm not defending the extremely pretentious Invisible Sun, I just mean that there exist works that do much, much better things with the idea of an invisible sun than Monte Cook does, and you can get that occult solar symbolism fix elsewhere.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2018 22:08
|
|
|
GimpInBlack posted:I mean there was that time he botched an exorcism in Newcastle. Who hasn't botched an exorcism at some point, though?
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2018 22:08
|
|
|
I'm kind of digging the way he just cannonballed into the shallow pool of Terrible Vampire Heartbreaker Tropes by fully embracing the "Every in-game and in-universe term has a pretentious Greek/Latin/Sanskrit name" design template like it's still 1994 or something.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2018 22:18
|
|
|
FMguru posted:I'm kind of digging the way he just cannonballed into the shallow pool of Terrible Vampire Heartbreaker Tropes by fully embracing the "Every in-game and in-universe term has a pretentious Greek/Latin/Sanskrit name" design template like it's still 1994 or something. Monte Cook has not grown in creativity or general games development understanding since the mid-90's so that makes sense.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2018 22:21
|
|
|
I'd be down with more chuuni oWoD clones, personally.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2018 22:21
|
|
|
Someone get Jenna Moran to remake old Demon
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2018 22:24
|
|
|
For real it’s perfect for something like Chuubos. The characters drawn Faith from their bargains with interesting individual mortals, and the central theme is learning to let go of your hate, because it’s torturing you.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2018 22:27
|
|
|
ProfessorCirno posted:Monte Cook has not grown in creativity or general games development understanding since the mid-90's so that makes sense. that's not true! He's advanced at least to the late 90's now. He acknowledged many of d&d 3.x's flaws like system mastery traps, wizard supremacy, and the devs playing the game/testing it exclusively to their playstyle and assuming players would just play the same way. I mean this stuff does not look like good game design, but I give him credit for trying to grow. Not enough to buy this crap of course.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2018 22:47
|
|
|
fool_of_sound posted:For real it’s perfect for something like Chuubos. The characters drawn Faith from their bargains with interesting individual mortals, and the central theme is learning to let go of your hate, because it’s torturing you. oDemon was legit maybe the best game concept of all of oWoD I think Like Wraith was just as interesting but much harder to play due to how heavy its themes are by comparison. Demon has very clear and easy to understand themes, isn't too difficult to play, and its  in conceptI wish it hadn't been abandoned, it deserves a true remake to go with the (very different but still good) nuDemon
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2018 22:48
|
|
|
Kwyndig posted:Who hasn't botched an exorcism at some point, though? I've only participated in one exorcism in my life and it was quite successful, thank you very much.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2018 23:00
|
|
|
Coolness Averted posted:that's not true! He's advanced at least to the late 90's now. He acknowledged many of d&d 3.x's flaws like system mastery traps, wizard supremacy, and the devs playing the game/testing it exclusively to their playstyle and assuming players would just play the same way. I mean this stuff does not look like good game design, but I give him credit for trying to grow. Not enough to buy this crap of course.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2018 23:03
|
|
|
Yawgmoth posted:So it sounds like Monte read the 2e Mage book and the 1e Mage book for nameless orders while getting wasted on listerine, then decided he'd make his own system based off all that while wacked out on research chemicals. you can get wasted on listerine?
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2018 23:19
|
|
|
gradenko_2000 posted:you can get wasted on listerine? Standard Listerine is ethanol based, although not recommended, you can use activated charcoal to filter it and get drunk.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2018 23:26
|
|
|
gradenko_2000 posted:you can get wasted on listerine? If your name is Coach Z you can!
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2018 23:31
|
|
|
The Deleter posted:If your name is Coach Z you can! Or just drink it straight if you have a high tolerance for the active ingredients, yes.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2018 23:33
|
|
|
The Deleter posted:If your name is Coach Z you can! Speaking of Homestar Runner, this year's New Halloween episode just came out
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2018 23:37
|
|
|
Coolness Averted posted:that's not true! He's advanced at least to the late 90's now. He acknowledged many of d&d 3.x's flaws like system mastery traps, wizard supremacy, and the devs playing the game/testing it exclusively to their playstyle and assuming players would just play the same way. I mean this stuff does not look like good game design, but I give him credit for trying to grow. Not enough to buy this crap of course. I thought the extent of his acknowledgment of trap options was admitting they exist but that he did it on purpose to give players who figured it out a sense of accomplishment. Which, uh, is not the lesson to be learned.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2018 23:58
|
|
|
Joe Slowboat posted:I'm not defending the extremely pretentious Invisible Sun, I just mean that there exist works that do much, much better things with the idea of an invisible sun than Monte Cook does, and you can get that occult solar symbolism fix elsewhere. gradenko_2000 posted:you can get wasted on listerine?
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2018 00:05
|
|
|
Coolness Averted posted:wow bad moran fanfiction by someone who doesn't really 'get' moran really was the best summary, and maybe a bit of "No, I never read Sandman, but I saw a few episodes of Lucifer, so close enough" thrown in. This just makes me scared that maybe Sandman was a piece of poo poo all along. I adored it when I read it as a teenager, now I'm worried to go back to it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2018 00:20
|
|
|
That Old Tree posted:I thought the extent of his acknowledgment of trap options was admitting they exist but that he did it on purpose to give players who figured it out a sense of accomplishment. Which, uh, is not the lesson to be learned. That seems to be one of Cooke's big issues. He really does seem to try to keep abreast with current game design, he just consistently fails to properly grasp the concepts he's trying to apply. Splicer fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Nov 1, 2018 |
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2018 00:23
|
|
|
Strom Cuzewon posted:This just makes me scared that maybe Sandman was a piece of poo poo all along. I adored it when I read it as a teenager, now I'm worried to go back to it. Nah, it's still good. Some of the art hasn't aged well but the writing owns.
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2018 00:25
|
|
|
LongDarkNight posted:Nah, it's still good. Some of the art hasn't aged well but the writing owns. Yeah like some of the novelty has probably worn off but it's still legit good literature in funnybook form.
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2018 00:32
|
|
|
That Old Tree posted:I thought the extent of his acknowledgment of trap options was admitting they exist but that he did it on purpose to give players who figured it out a sense of accomplishment. Which, uh, is not the lesson to be learned. From my comprehension of Invisible Sun thus far, the major lesson Monte Cook seems to have gleaned from D&D 3E is that magic items needed to be nerfed. He appears to have implemented every goddamn nerfing option possible for IS magic items -- made crafting costly/complicated/risky, removed them from the standard economy (magic items can only be bought with "magecoins" that only circulate among wizards and trickle down the wizard power hierarchy via lovely quests), made them extremely fragile (every magic item is either consumable, a reusable item with at least a 10% break chance per use/day of use, or an artifact that automatically vanishes after a few weeks of ownership) -- and I can't see why anyone would bother with them at this point. Better yet, there's an entire splat whose purpose is to engage with the risky/costly/complicated crafting system! YEEEEAH
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2018 00:35
|
|
|
To this day I think his whole "Ivory Tower game design" thing was complete horseshit. None of that was on purpose; claiming it was after the fact is just trying to rewrite his own inability to understand the game he made in the first place. The fact that his actual design has not changed and continues to have nonstop player traps is some pretty glaring proof.
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2018 03:05
|
|
|
Antivehicular posted:(magic items can only be bought with "magecoins" that only circulate among wizards and trickle down the wizard power hierarchy via lovely quests) Yeah, let's talk about the currencies in Invisible Sun and why they are all stupid. Orbs: Orbs are the normal currency and the least stupid one. They're little orbs filled with different kinds of emotion and qualities of thought. They come in four denominations: Glass orbs, which are full of very common thoughts or ideas like 'what cheddar cheese tastes like' and are made by child laborers, are worth about ten US cents in Shadow. Crystal orbs have more mundane ideas like 'a recipe for lentil soup', and are worth about ten dollars. It's not described what kind of thoughts go in Gem Orbs, but they're indestructible and are worth about US$1000. So it's a decimilated currency that's a pain to keep in your pockets because it's not flat. There are also Trueorbs, which contain actually important secrets. While they have the same denomination as a Gem Orb, Vislae can destroy them to extract the secrets within for a point of Hidden Knowledge, the meta currency you spend to get a +1 on a die. Now, you'd think that these being rare and having an unusual property only powerful and rich people can use would mean they'd be worth more than Gem Orbs, but that would make too much sense. Banks offer checking services for Orbs and Orbs alone, and you can also transfer Orbs through the Noösphere, the magical thought internet. Magecoin is not a particularly nerdy bitcoin variant, but rather a currency that nobody knows where it comes from that is used for exactly two purposes: Buying and selling magical goods and services, and you can destroy one to instantly restore one of your stat pools. There's two kinds of these, one which restores the physical pools and one which restores the intellectual/magical pools, but they spend the same. Now you may want to exchange these for orbs or other services, but... quote:There is no easy exchange rate between orbs Demontears: Not actually demon tears. Blood-red pearl thingies which are valued identical to Magecoins, but can be destroyed to restore any of your pools. Demons carry them around. Also, some people don't like them because they're afraid it has some sort of demonic influence. Bloodsilver: Slver coins worth about 10 bucks a pop, except almost nobody accepts them because they're loving cursed. If you own more than one bloodsilver (not hold, own- if you keep it in a bank deposit box or vault, you're still cursed), you have to make a resistance check at a difficulty related to how much of it you own in order to avoid the curse, which is left for the GM to make up. So why the hell do people consider this a currency and not a type of toxic waste? quote:Using bloodsilver as a currency is Bits And Bobs: The generic term for lesser currencies that use precious metals or whatnot. Magic can only create Bits And Bobs, not real currencies like Magecoin or Orbs. Five bits and bobs to a glass orb, which makes them extremely spare change.
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2018 07:22
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 09:27 |
|
|
This was, in fact, dumber then I had expected. Good lord.
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2018 07:26
|
|