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Cephas posted:I really like the tone in this chapter. Since it's a sequel to the first game, it makes sense that it starts out darker. Even in the normal and pacifist routes, you still get exposed to a lot of the game's darkness. Instead of being suppressed (literally hiding in secret underground laboratories and beneath veneers of smiling flowers), one of the first things the game presents you with is bullying and anger. The whole first chapter seems like a natural extension of the first game. In Undertale, the central conflict is the need to control your impulse to use violence to solve problems. In this chapter, you're openly dealing with the issue of nonviolent people having to navigate other people's violence. I really like this interpretation of the themes. Kris doesn't stab themselves though, they just use their hand. Oxyclean posted:I'd also like to think that the dark world isn't entirely what it seems. The playing a hero thing almost feels like it's being played too straight - the whole time I was waiting for the shoe to drop and for not-asriel to heel turn or something. The chess & card elements, and the nature of the journey almost feels Alice-in-Wonderland esque. Add to that the closet of actual board games and such. Also the Dark World having distinct UI, colorued portraits, more elaborate mechanics, and the such is curious. Yeah, especially with how Ralsei looks straight at the camera as the door closes at the beginning. It's like he knows what's going on. Though, considering what's in his manual and how he's the ONLY resident of that castle-town at the start, I wonder if he's actually undertale-Asriel? Like, everyone else in The Dark is based off of game pieces, where did Ralsei even come from? It's like Gaster created that little world just so you could go on an adventure with him. McFrugal fucked around with this message at 06:55 on Nov 1, 2018 |
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Nov 1, 2018 06:52
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Ursine Catastrophe posted:
When the game first started The task bar for the game was labeled Contact which is the name for a DS game where you the player fight the main character as the final boss, probably coincidence though.
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Nov 1, 2018 06:54
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I wasn't a huge fan of the ending, but Toby's earned my trust so I'll definitely stick with it. Overall I felt like the entire story has to tie back to focusing on Asriel. In the pacifist ending of Undertale he was the only character left in an imperfect state, still stuck in his flower form and still having that uncomfortable godlike knowledge of the universe. Now in the surface world Asriel is frequently mentioned but never present. In the dark world he just flat out has a stand in character with an anagram name and his own appearance. Ultimately I feel like this entire setting is an alternate reality spun off by Asriel, recycling characters and ideas from the first game to continue playing with you, the player/main character. I feel like the changes to the pre-existing characters also tends to make sense when seen through Asriel's worldview. Toriel and Asgore essentially had a perfect marriage that only dissolved as a result of their son dying and Asgore making the dark decisions he did. Their marriage dissolving in a setting where their child wasn't killed doesn't make a lot of sense narratively, but does seem natural in Asriel's eyes as a representation of how they failed in protecting him in his Flowey form. Alphys being presented as an inept failure at her job and the catalyst for the main adventure also makes a lot of sense when you remember that Alphys was the one responsible for Asriel's Flowey state.
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Nov 1, 2018 06:55
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About where the game's going: I like the interpretation that the game will have themes of depression, loneliness, and maybe even self harm That sort of stuff would certainly explain why Kris has to be taught how hugging works 
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Nov 1, 2018 07:00
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Bean posted:My real name is Kristen and when the game utterly trashed everything I had typed in and named the main hero Kris I just about had heart failure because that's 200% something Toby Fox would do, run a search on my machine for the first four letters of my name or some bullshit. when I played through Undertale the first time, I named the character "Fritz" so, it was very confusing when they started calling me Frisk  edit: Cephas posted:edit: it's not worth much conjecturing about a story based on just the first chapter, but between the violence that others do that is beyond your agency, the violence that Kris does to themselves at the end of the chapter, and Ralsei's really somber lines questioning whether or not they're in a world that can exist without violence... When you take that along with the beginning messages about a lack of agency, I can't help but wonder if this game is going to take the first game's anti-violence to its next logical step and ask "what do you do about the violence that does exist?"[/spoiler] Above the self-harm motives, I've got a feeling that this outing is going to deal with the uncomfortable question of dealing with folks who can't be placated or convinced to stop fighting. After all, sometimes you've got to fight, y'know? Victory Position fucked around with this message at 07:09 on Nov 1, 2018 |
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Nov 1, 2018 07:02
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I am extremely mad that allowing Suzie to drive even a single enemy off actually changes the sequence after you beat the King of Spades. I didn't think she could do it in one hit!
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Nov 1, 2018 07:19
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Elephant Parade posted:I am extremely mad that allowing Suzie to drive even a single enemy off actually changes the sequence after you beat the King of Spades. I didn't think she could do it in one hit!
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Nov 1, 2018 07:22
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Panic! at Nabisco posted:You gotta warn people about your extremely strong friend!
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Nov 1, 2018 07:22
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Oof After completing the game and visiting everyone in town, walking through my front door to hear a "Home" reprise tugged at some heartstrings.
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Nov 1, 2018 07:29
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McFrugal posted:I think what the game is implying is you, the player, are possessing Kris and controlling their actions. You are acting weird for Kris, because Kris is a creep and doesn't treat people with kindness like you do, alt-Chara or not. This is why at the ending, Kris rips the soul out of their chest and throws it in a cage. That's *your* SOUL. I thought something along these lines myself! On the identity of a discussed but unseen character: One of the chess pieces calls you horsie. In chess, a horse is a knight. Kris IS the knight that overthrew the kings. All of this happened before and Kris was terrible. We went back and changed things so that they were good. Judging by the cage, we do this all of the time and Kris hates it. It's also why the first save has Kris's name but overwrites it with our own. I think we're trying to save them?
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Nov 1, 2018 07:29
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yeah the main themes here seem overwhelmingly to concern issues with separation. You've got Kris-Asriel, Toriel-Asgore, Undyne-Alphys, King-Son, potentially Sans-Papyrus, and various others like the cat and gator ladies — not to mention kris's soul and body. Hell, having an odd number of characters all having partners in the classroom feels off, and none of these separations really make sense other than they're just this way. That poo poo being painful is gonna probably be our core motif. Good on the gay knight bros hanging out in front of the lake not having this problem
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Nov 1, 2018 07:35
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 this only makes sense if you know someone's reading it as opposed to saying it
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Nov 1, 2018 07:41
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What is the Knight? Presumably, it is the Darkness.
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Nov 1, 2018 07:45
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Paladin posted:I thought something along these lines myself! I don't believe this for a second. The Spade King would recognize you, for one.
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Nov 1, 2018 07:53
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It's been a while since I've been genuinely caught off-guard by something so fun like this, and for free to boot. Toby Fox rules.
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Nov 1, 2018 07:54
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Gameplay wise, it's real fun. I'm surprised at the ways Toby Fox managed to build upon the systems from Undertale here and adding in some twists on top of that.
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Nov 1, 2018 07:57
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Ursine Catastrophe posted:
gently caress this joke
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Nov 1, 2018 07:57
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I wonder if I'm an insane person and/or not the target audience because when the town opened up at the end, I had absolutely zero desire to interact with any of these old Undertale characters and went straight home to go to bed. I'm told I missed out on some moody and unsettling things? Anyway, as the purest sort of Touhou fan I hate seeing old characters I already know and love and would much much rather that this game focus on a new cast, even if it's in a related setting.
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Nov 1, 2018 07:58
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Toby Fox just did a last minute "HOLD MY BEER" for most notable release this month and I am all in. Personally, I think that this is its own story, but with using characters in a way to play around with expectations. Unlucky7 fucked around with this message at 08:01 on Nov 1, 2018 |
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Nov 1, 2018 07:59
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Clarste posted:I wonder if I'm an insane person and/or not the target audience because when the town opened up at the end, I had absolutely zero desire to interact with any of these old Undertale characters and went straight home to go to bed. I'm told I missed out on some moody and unsettling things? Anyway, as the purest sort of Touhou fan I hate seeing old characters I already know and love and would much much rather that this game focus on a new cast, even if it's in a related setting. it's definitely not an "all your best friends are here go catch up with em!" sorta thing. they exist almost entirely as a way to build a sense of something overall being very wrong
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Nov 1, 2018 08:01
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absolutely anything posted:it's definitely not an "all your best friends are here go catch up with em!" sorta thing. they exist almost entirely as a way to build a sense of something overall being very wrong Yeah it's very much played as "You assume that this could potentially be a direct sequel for a full 95% of the game until you talk to some people in the epilogue and realize Something Isn't Right"
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Nov 1, 2018 08:05
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McFrugal posted:I don't believe this for a second. The Spade King would recognize you, for one. OK, it probably isn't true, and I'm definitely reaching with this, but.... Our appearance changed when we went from the light world to the dark world. We became a hero because we were a hero already. It's not too much of a leap to think that a different soul making the same trip would look quite different. Lack/presence of souls changing appearance is already an established thing in Undertale, after all. .
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Nov 1, 2018 08:06
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absolutely anything posted:it's definitely not an "all your best friends are here go catch up with em!" sorta thing. they exist almost entirely as a way to build a sense of something overall being very wrong I can't believe I didn't love Undertale enough to feel bad.
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Nov 1, 2018 08:10
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I am a bit disappointed that apparently you do not actually kill enemies in the game even if you go full aggro, but then again it is still fun to go pacifist, and even if it did look like Toby Fox wanted to go back into that mine, it is probably a good idea that he isn't going back to that theme again
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Nov 1, 2018 08:12
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just finished it all I have to say right now is AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA will read the thread and have something to actually say tomorrow, it's past midnight and I need to sleep now
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Nov 1, 2018 08:16
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Unlucky7 posted:I am a bit disappointed that apparently you do not actually kill enemies in the game even if you go full aggro, but then again it is still fun to go pacifist, and even if it did look like Toby Fox wanted to go back into that mine, it is probably a good idea that he isn't going back to that theme again "Your choices do not matter" seems like it's going to be a theme. Suzy's the most obvious one when she literally doesn't let you select options, but there's other places where you can't choose to not do something-- the most obvious one that springs to mind is when you go to open the door to the secret boss, you get the dialog option to "not open the door" and get told "it's too late, you're opening it anyways" given how much player agency was tied into the various Undertale endings, it'll be interesting to see how the meta-narrative goes when you inverse it and make a Telltale game where your choices don't matter 
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Nov 1, 2018 08:17
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Ok, so, here's some Lore™ thinking to extract it from my brain so I can go to bed: the whole setting is obviously an alternate universe, but the game assumes via presented dialogue options with (at least) Sans and Undyne that the player (or whatever is controlling Kris, if it's not explicitly the player) has played Undertale, which given the nature of the thing means that the player character (or controlling aspect thereof) is at least one link between the games, in-setting. There's also lots and lots of metaplot stuff with Gaster, up to and including him apparently screwing Jevil's head up by making him "realize", to the extent possible for this, that his world is a game (it's definitely a Gaster thing since the shopkeeper directly quotes the guy's hidden lab note entry.) So we've got two characters who are pretty much definitely hip to the idea of two different games: Gaster, and [Player Character]. It's possible that whatever the gently caress is going on with Kris in the ending, which definitely looks like something puppeting said character, is symptomatic of a third, malevolent entity (possibly the fallen child who shows up smiling cheerfully in the kill-em-all ending, talking directly to you), but that's as yet unknown. (Instead of the same Gaster, it is also possible that it's a different Gaster, given the music named "Another Him".) It's kinda loving weird to be working out the metanarrative knowledge pyramid here, because we're at the point where characters (one of which, Gaster, is explicitly not yet a character until you get to, like, the third metanarrative layer) aren't just aware of being in a game setting, but of being in a multi-game setting with alternate universes between the games. Never seen anything quite like it. Jen X fucked around with this message at 08:39 on Nov 1, 2018 |
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Nov 1, 2018 08:22
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Boy I hope we get the rest of this game sooner rather than later. I really wanna see where this story is going.
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Nov 1, 2018 08:26
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There's a lot to discuss and unpack and so on with this game and I can see that's well under way, but I want to say that I really appreciate how much depth Toby put in to the sparing mechanics, with stuff like having to manage Suzie's aggression turning a commitment to pacifism into a challenge while also furthering the story. It's been a common critique of a lot of moral choice games that they might as well just give you one choice at the start of whether this'll be a good or evil playthrough then stop asking you to reconfirm each time a decision comes up, so making the moral outcome something you have have to work against someone in your own party to achieve gives that decision some stakes, and in a pretty fresh way.
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Nov 1, 2018 08:27
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Republicans posted:Boy I hope we get the rest of this game sooner rather than later. I really wanna see where this story is going. Wouldn't surprise me if we get another chapter tonight, given some of the stuff Sans says about coming back and meeting Papyrus tomorrow (and I think a few other characters in the town sequence talk about tomorrows, too). Of course, I could be reaching.
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Nov 1, 2018 08:29
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Republicans posted:Boy I hope we get the rest of this game sooner rather than later. I really wanna see where this story is going. I kinda wonder how much of the game is done. Toby says that he wanted feedback but this is a meaty chunk of game. On the other hand he did more or less do the same with the Undertale demo itself.
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Nov 1, 2018 08:31
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Well, this was unexpected. Without reading the thread too much to avoid spoilers, I gotta say, I'm really intrigued. Didn't expect this to be more than a demo, but it just kept going. Got to maybe 5th or 6th save point. It doesn't seem like a sequel or a prequel, and the story that you get from the Prince seems like a huge lie. Maybe not an intentional one by the character, but it feels far too cliche, as if it's a test or a play of some sort. Not as funny as the original, too, but that maybe just because the protagonist's sprite and overall weird atmosphere put me off. Woner where this is going.
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Nov 1, 2018 08:35
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There's no way Toby doesn't end up bringing back the character you made at the start, right? The split between the player, Frisk and Chara was such a big part of Undertale, and now we have Kris, you, and perhaps this "vessel" you made? If the heart represents your soul as opposed to Kris's and Kris can throw you out, maybe you can get put into a new body? So many possibilities.
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Nov 1, 2018 08:53
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https://twitter.com/Fattyzilla/status/1057696370889551872
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Nov 1, 2018 08:59
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The demo was really cute. I can't wait for the full game. oh man that twist Spacedad fucked around with this message at 09:06 on Nov 1, 2018 |
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Nov 1, 2018 09:01
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Your Computer posted:I just had a thought - we all know Deltarune is an anagram of Undertale right? Well, it certainly is the same characters but rearranged. Catching up on the thread from the start worth it.
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Nov 1, 2018 09:05
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Part of me wants to think the "your decisions don't matter" bit is just a hint at "hey, this is a demo, don't be too surprised when your decisions don't have a lot of impact for now". I don't feel like Toby would put in so many mechanics where so many choices are given to not have them matter in some way at some point.
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Nov 1, 2018 09:17
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Dolash posted:There's no way Toby doesn't end up bringing back the character you made at the start, right? The split between the player, Frisk and Chara was such a big part of Undertale, and now we have Kris, you, and perhaps this "vessel" you made? If the heart represents your soul as opposed to Kris's and Kris can throw you out, maybe you can get put into a new body? Wouldn't be surprised in the slightest. Really interested to see where this goes, especially because I went all-in and named the creator Chara 
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Nov 1, 2018 09:27
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With regards to decisions in this game: When we first save the game we overwrite a save file bearing Kris' name. The epilogue has multiple characters commentimg on how atypically Kris is behaving. However Kris would have handled the entire situation is taken entirely out of their hands (and into yours). Not only do our decisions as players not matter, neither does Kris'.
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Nov 1, 2018 09:57
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Out of curiosity, item related did anyone pick up the glow shard at the beginning of the game, and did you find anything to do with it?
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Nov 1, 2018 10:00
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