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Jerusalem posted:That said, didn't he take a writer's room approach so while every episode might have an individual writer's name on it, there will be some uniformity to the episodes as everybody was pitching in, working on ideas, adding dialogue/coming up with alternate views on stuff? There were a lot of rumors about that, but I've never seen it confirmed anywhere. The way Ed Hime talks about it does it make it sound like that's the way that they went, but it feels like Malorie Blackman would have been too busy for that kind of thing.
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# ? Oct 30, 2018 21:35 |
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# ? Jun 3, 2024 08:54 |
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The writing in this series is getting to me. The main cast are excellent and give it a real boost, but it feels like it's written for the radio, and not well. I could follow it perfectly without the pictures because everything happening is so painstakingly explained, and all I'd really be missing is a few visual gags. It wouldn't need so much exposition if what was actually happening made any kind of sense, but unfortunately the writer is real smart and wants to subvert our expectations all the time at the expense of making an entertaining, rewarding show. For example in this episode you have a climactic scene where everyone's tooled up like Ghost Busters to take out a spider monster in the ballroom of a hotel. You've been built up to expect the final showdown, some danger, protagonists in peril and a lucky escape. You're keen for this poo poo now. What you're given instead is a spider dry-humping a wall while the cast stand by looking bewildered. It's then explained to us that the spider is too big and will die anyway, even though it was just as big before when it was literally running around murdering everyone. It's a colossal bait-and-switch and an utter disappointment. Or, when they go down into the tunnels it's revealed that the spiders are cocooning people for... no reason. We were led to believe that they were eating people, but now we're told they can't, and they're just confused, and "just as scared of us as we are of them," which is deeply unsatisfying. I get that it's a funny line because parents say that to kids all the time, but that line would have worked so much better had it been delivered by not-Trump to his bodyguard just before he went into the bathroom, here it just undermines the threat the whole show has been selling us on up until now. I love all of the character stuff they're doing with Ryan and Graham, I love Jodie Whittaker's Doctor. A great deal of the asides are fantastic, but the structure seems like a hatchet job.
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# ? Oct 31, 2018 01:41 |
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JLR would've had more room to breathe as a character if he wasn't planning to run for US President. I mean, the stakes for him wouldn't change at all. He's still a businessman building a hotel on top of an abandoned coal mine.
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# ? Oct 31, 2018 04:14 |
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I thought the thing about the spiders being confused and their instincts not being good at figuring out how to deal with the different scale of things worked pretty well actually. They don't know that they're bigger, they're just trying to do what they always do but now their entire environment appears to have changed. It made sense to me that they'd grab something that came too near and wrap it up like they normally do with prey, but then the thing doesn't really make any sense to them as something to eat and how come there is all this weird debris (furniture) getting in the way now and where are all the bugs they normally eat all they can see are really tiny versions that are too small for them to even bite or web up what is going on nothing makes any goddamn sense.... oh poo poo feel those vibrations, the prey must be over there! Let's go and... oh now we're all locked in a little room, where are the goddamn flies!?!
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# ? Oct 31, 2018 04:54 |
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I'd like to formally apologize to Moffat for all the times (not many but a few) that I called his episodes "preachy" or "heavy-handed". Otherwise I'm really enjoying the rest of it.
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# ? Oct 31, 2018 08:54 |
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Jerusalem posted:That said, didn't he take a writer's room approach so while every episode might have an individual writer's name on it, there will be some uniformity to the episodes as everybody was pitching in, working on ideas, adding dialogue/coming up with alternate views on stuff? Based on an interview, he employed a system that is sort of between the American writer's room and the British model. He didn't really divulge more details than that, though.
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# ? Oct 31, 2018 09:36 |
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Looking at BF's Torchwood page, and it looks like they're bumping the standalone stories up from 6 releases to 12 next year.
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# ? Oct 31, 2018 14:49 |
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Davros1 posted:Looking at BF's Torchwood page, and it looks like they're bumping the standalone stories up from 6 releases to 12 next year. The preorder bundles are still in sets of 6 if you want though, which is nice for my pocketbook
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# ? Oct 31, 2018 14:55 |
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dsub posted:The writing in this series is getting to me. The main cast are excellent and give it a real boost, but it feels like it's written for the radio, and not well. I could follow it perfectly without the pictures because everything happening is so painstakingly explained, and all I'd really be missing is a few visual gags. It wouldn't need so much exposition if what was actually happening made any kind of sense, but unfortunately the writer is real smart and wants to subvert our expectations all the time at the expense of making an entertaining, rewarding show. I'm not saying your take is completely wrong, but I am interested in how you can complain that the new series explains everything too much while at the same time not identifying that the monster wasn't suffocating on the wall, it was what fired a gun. And he is set up as such from the very beginning. The giant mutant spiders were restricted to Sheffield, meaning that they aren't the titular Arachnids in the UK. It's becoming increasingly clear why we won't have Daleks this series: They'd distract from the profile of real monstrosity being constructed.
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# ? Oct 31, 2018 15:56 |
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Narsham posted:I'm not saying your take is completely wrong, but I am interested in how you can complain that the new series explains everything too much while at the same time not identifying that the monster wasn't suffocating on the wall, it was what fired a gun. And he is set up as such from the very beginning. The giant mutant spiders were restricted to Sheffield, meaning that they aren't the titular Arachnids in the UK. It's becoming increasingly clear why we won't have Daleks this series: They'd distract from the profile of real monstrosity being constructed. I understand that but I think it's quite a charitable reading if you don't mind me saying so. That guy was an rear end in a top hat and a scaredy-cat, but a monster? The spiders are literally murdering people. He doesn't get his comeuppance, either, which is disappointing, and as others have pointed out shooting the spider was probably the humane thing to do despite the show awkwardly trying to suggest it wasn't. It was also a mercy not enjoyed by the victims of the spiders, who were all suffocated in cocoons. "The real monster is us" is a more tired trope than the Daleks, and not nearly as fun.
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# ? Oct 31, 2018 21:09 |
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dsub posted:
"The real monster is us" is trope that can be updated to show what about us, specifically, is being criticized as monstrous, though (e.g. the timely white supremacist time traveler and the corporation that cuts corners to meet quarterly profits). I'd agree they didn't necessarily stick the landing with the spider episode, but making the humans the bad guys is something that still has a lot of mileage in it.
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# ? Oct 31, 2018 21:24 |
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dsub posted:I understand that but I think it's quite a charitable reading if you don't mind me saying so. That guy was an rear end in a top hat and a scaredy-cat, but a monster? The spiders are literally murdering people. He doesn't get his comeuppance, Actually so far this is a theme isn't it? Tim Shaw: zapped back to his home planet Ilin the Race Guy: swans off, no consequences for being a dick Krasko: sent to the past or something President Bigly: goes on with his businesses and presidential campaign It seems a bit much to assume Chibnall is having every single rear end in a top hat get away with it at the end of each episode without setting something up for later in the season.
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# ? Nov 1, 2018 00:05 |
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It could just be that a theme of this season is "assholes get away with it". We're out of the Moffat years now, not everything is part of a convoluted puzzlebox.
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# ? Nov 1, 2018 00:20 |
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Whybird posted:It could just be that a theme of this season is "assholes get away with it". We're out of the Moffat years now, not everything is part of a convoluted puzzlebox. Yeah, I think Moffat ‘ruined’ us as viewers. We’re all expecting another ‘wait, he wasn’t wearing a jacket a second ago, was he?’ type mystery and that’s probably not going to happen.
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# ? Nov 1, 2018 00:33 |
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Astroman posted:Actually so far this is a theme isn't it? I sure hope so, it would be kind of cool if in lieu of a series arc, the finale ties a bunch of disparate threads together. It's just hard to imagine Chibnall isn't doing this on purpose. alternately, he could deliberately be characterizing the Doctor as still finding her footing, and there's finally a big moment where the Doctor definitively handles an antagonist. The Doctor hasn't yet met with serious sexist treatment in Earth's past, so that's going to be very interesting, too. It's weird because I don't think the writing is BAD, but it's lacking structure and polish in the way a lot of Moffat episodes have. on my wishlist for next season I'd like to see Chibnall hand more episodes off to guests, and also not frontload the episodes written by him. also I haven't seen much yet to justify why the Doctor should have three companions. I defended the move before the season because I saw potential, but it's creating some weird problems I didn't anticipate. Here's the biggest - other than the premiere, so far nothing's been particularly fatal in consequence. With four characters with plot armor, who all need moments, it's difficult to also develop guest characters doomed to die. so nobody dies in Ghost Monument despite the stated risks. Rosa obviously isn't one of those "risk of terrible death" episodes, but Arachnids in the UK is, and of the three confirmed deaths, only one is a speaking character, and none of the victims ever meet the Doctor and companions. Once the group gets together, nobody dies, nobody's even injured.
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# ? Nov 1, 2018 00:42 |
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Whybird posted:It could just be that a theme of this season is "assholes get away with it". We're out of the Moffat years now, not everything is part of a convoluted puzzlebox. I’d like to think that expecting a Doctor Who episode’s heavily codified villain to receive some (any!) sort of poetic/dramatic justice isn’t convoluted Moffaty timey wimey puzzlebox storytelling. Matinee fucked around with this message at 01:49 on Nov 1, 2018 |
# ? Nov 1, 2018 01:33 |
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Spatula City posted:I sure hope so, it would be kind of cool if in lieu of a series arc, the finale ties a bunch of disparate threads together. It's just hard to imagine Chibnall isn't doing this on purpose. alternately, he could deliberately be characterizing the Doctor as still finding her footing, and there's finally a big moment where the Doctor definitively handles an antagonist. The Doctor hasn't yet met with serious sexist treatment in Earth's past, so that's going to be very interesting, too. This makes me think of the end of The Doctor Dances.
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# ? Nov 1, 2018 02:03 |
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Strom Cuzewon posted:You should probably see a doctor if you're growing cock(s) in unwanted places.
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# ? Nov 1, 2018 02:16 |
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Anyone else think the Doctor was a little bit tone deaf, emphasizing to them that she couldn't protect them. Pretty obvious when the first time they met ended with the companions wife/grandmother dying.
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# ? Nov 1, 2018 03:51 |
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Senor Tron posted:Anyone else think the Doctor was a little bit tone deaf, emphasizing to them that she couldn't protect them. Pretty obvious when the first time they met ended with the companions wife/grandmother dying. The Radio Free Skaro guys made a really good observation that it's really a good thing for the Doctor to hammer that point home. It's letting the companions give informed consent to the hazards of traveling. The Tim Shaw situation happened such that the companions (and Grace) just got swept up in the middle of things, and the events of Ghost Monument and Rosa (the former very heavily so) were not adventures embarked on by choice; the scene at the end of Arachnids, on the other hand, is the companions proactively saying "yes, let's keep traveling together" Contrast this to the end of Rose where the Doctor just says "hey this ship goes anywhere....and anywhen" and off Rose goes into mortal peril. Companions are frequently either A) swept off without knowing that's what's gonna happen (see: Ian and Barbara for the earliest examples), or B) promised "let's go see the universe, it'll be fun!" Scenario B is usually justified by way of saying the Doctor and co. have plenty of non hazardous adventures between televised episodes...but that's not what we see on TV. The stories we actually see are almost universally fraught with mortal peril. It's honestly kinda refreshing to have the Doctor really solidly emphasize that. To your specific point, yeah this group of companions probably knows the risks better than others would...but it's still nice to know the companions have been able to offer informed consent to the dangers of being Team TARDIS.
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# ? Nov 1, 2018 04:19 |
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Bicyclops posted:"The real monster is us" is trope that can be updated to show what about us, specifically, is being criticized as monstrous, though (e.g. the timely white supremacist time traveler and the corporation that cuts corners to meet quarterly profits). I'd agree they didn't necessarily stick the landing with the spider episode, but making the humans the bad guys is something that still has a lot of mileage in it. Pretty much agree with this, the story was far from perfect but just wanted to add that so far this new series has gone well with the 8 year old market in our house. He's picking up on these themes and also is enjoying how the new Doctor seems relaxed compared to Capaldi, I'd also take that as meaning the writing is more accessible. I liked Capaldi and Moffat but it was past time to bring the show back to something more kids can digest. He really liked Matt Smith btw, considers him "his Doctor".
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# ? Nov 1, 2018 04:32 |
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Torchwood will be taking on some returning Who monsters in their monthly range next year, including the Big Finish debut (addendum: in a range people actually care about) of... I'm sure tv series 1 Torchwood probably would've done a queef joke if they'd had the Slitheen on there Box of Bunnies fucked around with this message at 11:14 on Nov 1, 2018 |
# ? Nov 1, 2018 11:08 |
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Box of Bunnies posted:Torchwood will be taking on some returning Who monsters in their monthly range next year, including the Big Finish debut of... The slitheen have been in BF stuff before. Specifically the Lady Christina Box
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# ? Nov 1, 2018 11:10 |
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jivjov posted:The slitheen have been in BF stuff before. Specifically the Lady Christina Box Oh, my bad, that was one I didn't listen to so I missed it and don't remember seeing it mentioned. Apparently they were also in the Tenth Doctor Chronicles? So not really anywhere there was going to be a lot of eyes (er, ears) on them Box of Bunnies fucked around with this message at 11:15 on Nov 1, 2018 |
# ? Nov 1, 2018 11:12 |
Things I liked: Shadow puppets A few choice Doctor lines and faces The fact that the time vortex is now fractal DMT hyperspace Private industry is abysmal Barry Foster fucked around with this message at 11:31 on Nov 1, 2018 |
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# ? Nov 1, 2018 11:29 |
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None of those are unwanted
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# ? Nov 1, 2018 11:44 |
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I feel like I'm the only person who watched Daleks in Manhatthan and didn't think "those are penises!" Though it was a bad practical effect, yes.
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# ? Nov 1, 2018 11:53 |
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The_Doctor posted:Yeah, I think Moffat ‘ruined’ us as viewers. We’re all expecting another ‘wait, he wasn’t wearing a jacket a second ago, was he?’ type mystery and that’s probably not going to happen. I've been rewatching the Davies years, and one thing Moffat was good at (when he was good) was structure. His episodes tend to have bookends and repeating phrases that come back with new, sometimes horrible meaning. Sometimes, though, his characters felt like props as vehicles to tell that story. I think Chibnalls is better with character. It feels like he'd rather spend a little quiet time with real conversation at, sometimes, the expense of a good punctuation mark at the end of a story. I think the former has more dramatic payoff when it works, but the latter makes for more even writing, and let's the companions grow into people we like more naturally.
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# ? Nov 1, 2018 12:05 |
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jivjov posted:A) swept off without knowing that's what's gonna happen (see: Ian and Barbara for the earliest examples) Katarina
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# ? Nov 1, 2018 12:56 |
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Fair Bear Maiden posted:I feel like I'm the only person who watched Daleks in Manhatthan and didn't think "those are penises!" Honestly if you combine a human with a "pure Kaled DNA Dalek" you should just get....a Kaled.
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# ? Nov 1, 2018 13:04 |
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Bicyclops posted:I've been rewatching the Davies years, and one thing Moffat was good at (when he was good) was structure. His episodes tend to have bookends and repeating phrases that come back with new, sometimes horrible meaning. Sometimes, though, his characters felt like props as vehicles to tell that story. Yeah, Moffat was really good at plot and resolution. I'm enjoying this series so far but there's an awful lot of stuff petering out at the end.
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# ? Nov 1, 2018 13:16 |
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I mean, his episodes were well structured, but I'll be glad for a few years of not hearing some nursery rhyme or Run you clever boy three times per episode. It seems to me like the show's pushing itself more towards being both a children's show and a prestige drama. You have 13's big colourful costume, comparatively bloodless adventures, lots of exposition and trivia stuffed into the dialogue, and I'm also reminded of a good recent post about how the season's been exploring things in ways a child could relate to. You then also have the cinematography ramping up again, the more heads-on tackling of social issues, the space given for quiet scenes like Graham grieving his wife, and the stripping-out of most of the wackiness thus far. I'm very excited to see where the season goes.
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# ? Nov 1, 2018 21:16 |
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I’m looking forward to an episode not written by Chibnall. The first three have been decent, not hitting the highs or lows of the RTD and Moffat eras. But I’d like an actually good story.
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# ? Nov 1, 2018 21:43 |
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I know a new showrunner means a clean slate, but give me more Jamie Mathieson stories!
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# ? Nov 1, 2018 22:52 |
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Run you clever boy and become the doctor, I'm Clara and I'm literally the most important person ever
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# ? Nov 1, 2018 23:01 |
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jivjov posted:The Radio Free Skaro guys made a really good observation that it's really a good thing for the Doctor to hammer that point home. It's letting the companions give informed consent to the hazards of traveling. The Tim Shaw situation happened such that the companions (and Grace) just got swept up in the middle of things, and the events of Ghost Monument and Rosa (the former very heavily so) were not adventures embarked on by choice; the scene at the end of Arachnids, on the other hand, is the companions proactively saying "yes, let's keep traveling together" Ya, I thought it was cool and refreshing that 13 had the crew sign a verbal contract that they're about to embark on some fun but also, more than likely, some really loving dangerous and incredibly hosed up adventures. Compared to the fairy-tale style promise of all of time and space, everything that ever happened or ever will etc. Like she can pull the lever and fly the TARDIS almost anywhere at anytime, sure but if that thing wants to it can and will take them into the very pits of Hell because the Doctor's needed there. "Sign here and here and here.....ok, now that I'm not liable for you not coming back the same at all, wanna pull the switch together?"
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# ? Nov 2, 2018 00:14 |
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dsub posted:I understand that but I think it's quite a charitable reading if you don't mind me saying so. That guy was an rear end in a top hat and a scaredy-cat, but a monster? The spiders are literally murdering people. He doesn't get his comeuppance, either, which is disappointing, and as others have pointed out shooting the spider was probably the humane thing to do despite the show awkwardly trying to suggest it wasn't. It was also a mercy not enjoyed by the victims of the spiders, who were all suffocated in cocoons. So you bought the line of bullshit Robertson offered? His company, his decisions, entirely his responsibility that these mutant spiders came into being and then killed people. And his concern is covering it all up, not making certain that similar things aren't happening at his other properties, looking to provide survivor's benefits for the relatives of those the spiders killed, or doing anything much at all that involves ethical behavior or caring about other people. He's worse than the spiders. They killed because they were hungry and confused and scared. He just wants to cut corners to make as much money as possible and deliberately ignores corrupt practices or "outsources" his responsibilities to others. dsub posted:"The real monster is us" is a more tired trope than the Daleks, and not nearly as fun. You must have despised Oxygen, then. And the Cybermen. And the Kaleds. In fact, I'm not sure what you like about Doctor Who if you are bored with "we are the monster."
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# ? Nov 2, 2018 00:59 |
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You can only pull the enemy of my enemy is a super ghost from double triple hell thing so many times and most of the time it turns out it's the Daleks anyway.
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# ? Nov 2, 2018 02:35 |
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I think it's going to be a long time before anything tops,"LOCATION EARTH! LIFEFORMS DETECTED! EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwN6vNBttws Mickey's "That's not Cybermen....." line gets to me everytime.
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# ? Nov 2, 2018 02:48 |
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# ? Jun 3, 2024 08:54 |
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Narsham posted:So you bought the line of bullshit Robertson offered? His company, his decisions, entirely his responsibility that these mutant spiders came into being and then killed people. And his concern is covering it all up, not making certain that similar things aren't happening at his other properties, looking to provide survivor's benefits for the relatives of those the spiders killed, or doing anything much at all that involves ethical behavior or caring about other people. Well I take it you're not voting for him then.
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# ? Nov 2, 2018 03:11 |