|
No. 1 Apartheid Fan posted:I think it's kinda pointless to speculate about what Deltarune is at this point, but if I had to, I'd wager that among other things, it's going to be about Toby's frustration with the idea of making a sequel to Undertale and the constraints and tyranny of expectations. So far it seems to be doing some really fatalist stuff thematically - telling us our choices don't matter, having the enemies escape when you "kill" them anyway, making the first world themed around a chessboard (that is, everyone in it is a pawn without agency) - and using the familiar characters and Undertale elements in such a way that they feel mundane rather than like an exciting return to your old friends. If I'm right, that's uh, way "meta"... but I think that's kind of a silly concern. The game doesn't have to break the fourth wall constantly or some poo poo to be about that, and it being about that doesn't mean it can't be about other things - that Toby's dilemma can't be a mirror for different conflicts in the player's life. Makes a lot of sense. One big theme of Undertale was questioning an approach to games where you try to devour them entirely down to sucking the marrow from their bones, so it would make sense for his "sequel that's not quite a sequel" to be about questioning the desire for sequels, returns to things we've had before, iterations on a formula... The weird alienating feeling of talking to the Undertale characters in town at the end is certainly in line with that.
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2018 23:20
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 04:51 |
|
|
Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:By the way, the only save points are in the dark world. The town doesn't have any. Speaking of that, I haven't seen anyone mention the very interesting text you get from the first save point: At times, you see it flickering. The light only you can see. By second nature, you reach out, and...
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2018 23:21
|
|
|
No. 1 Apartheid Fan posted:Okay? I don't know what's wrong with that. Undertale wasn't a particularly deep game mechanically, and though well-written, was pretty straightforward beyond the mysteries about the setting it alluded to (which are presumably part of the discussion you're disinterested in, since you hate Gaster). It sounds like you beat a game, got what you wanted out of it, and moved on. Nothing wrong with that, or other people taking more an interest in other aspects. I'm mostly just expressing personal frustration with the ending and how it's going to affect and has affected discussion barely a day in. It's not that I have absolute zero interest in that facet of the story or where it could go, but to see it already taking over so much of the conversation is just kind of disheartening as someone who's way more into what the games openly present than the shadowy corners of the meta-narrative.
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2018 23:21
|
|
|
Beekeeping and You posted:
No no, not THAT kind of graze, grab a sandwich or something dude
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2018 23:22
|
|
|
TriffTshngo posted:I'm mostly just expressing personal frustration with the ending and how it's going to affect and has affected discussion barely a day in. It's not that I have absolute zero interest in that facet of the story or where it could go, but to see it already taking over so much of the conversation is just kind of disheartening as someone who's way more into what the games openly present than the shadowy corners of the meta-narrative. Protip: if you don't like discussing a certain aspect of the game, the way to stop people discussing that aspect of the game is to discuss another aspect of the game, not create an argument by talking about how you don't care about that aspect of the game.
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2018 23:27
|
|
|
I agree! Let's talk about how Sans is totally gay
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2018 23:30
|
|
|
hell yea
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2018 23:36
|
|
|
I want to wildly speculate on whats going to happen in chapter two. Now obviously the most likely thing to happen is just a direct continuation into Tomorrow. But like, what if chapter 2, the towns the same, but when you go into Dark World its acts like you havn't been there before, and it got different characters and slightly different story beats. Or not even the Town is the same. You wake up as like Fara or whatever dumb anagram game and everything is just rearranged AGAIN. Chapter after Chapter just another AU every time.
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2018 23:37
|
|
|
Since I heard about her from the last thread, Laurentheflute is currently streaming Delta Rune now on Twitch.
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2018 23:37
|
|
|
TriffTshngo posted:I'm mostly just expressing personal frustration with the ending and how it's going to affect and has affected discussion barely a day in. It's not that I have absolute zero interest in that facet of the story or where it could go, but to see it already taking over so much of the conversation is just kind of disheartening as someone who's way more into what the games openly present than the shadowy corners of the meta-narrative. Now see, in terms of it taking over discussion I've mostly only seen backlash - people afraid that Chara, Gaster, and 4th wall chicanery will be foisted upon them and invalidate all the perfectly good textual story they just played through. Which seems like a way-preemptive thing to be afraid of since surely Toby Fox has earned some benefit of the doubt by now, but also seems to miss some of the point of that main story about the futility of choice and how naive it is to think you can just pick the kind of world you want. In particular, the suggestion that having to see knife-wielding Kris even if you only ever played True Pacifist in Undertale and this game seems to be taken as some sort of intrusion, invalidating your desire to not engage with the more genocide-flavored meta parts of the series, but I think it's absolutely in keeping with the rest of Deltarune up to that point. Unlike in Undertale, you no longer have the choice to control what people do or in what direction the story goes, you have to struggle to work your will on this world and the characters - even "your" character - have agency and will work against you.
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2018 23:37
|
|
|
also, in deltarune trump is president
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2018 23:40
|
|
|
Is anyone else reminded of the music from the final lavos core fight by Jevil's theme?
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2018 23:40
|
|
|
Kitfox88 posted:Is anyone else reminded of the music from the final lavos core fight by Jevil's theme? actually can anyone just recommend any and all music kind of like this mentioned one here. i love its vibe.
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2018 23:43
|
|
|
Beekeeping and You posted:
I loved that reference, along with the grazing.
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2018 23:53
|
|
|
Impermanent posted:also, in deltarune trump is president Now it makes sense 
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2018 23:55
|
|
|
Okay this is veering way off topic so let's get back on track. Would you rather bully Susie or be bullied by her
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2018 23:57
|
|
|
I gotta know if this is going to be episodic or if this is more like the Undertale Kickstarter demo before the full release further down the line, and I also gotta know when the next chapter(s) coming out, because I have work to do and can't just be thinking Undertale thoughts all day for the next week.Question Friend posted:Okay this is veering way off topic so let's get back on track. Would you rather bully Susie or be bullied by her Attempting to bully Susie sounds like a good way to get your face bitten off, sooooo...
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2018 23:58
|
|
|
I want to kick down doors with Susie Between the two of us this town will be doorless in no time
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2018 23:58
|
|
|
Dolash posted:Attempting to bully Susie sounds like a good way to get your face bitten off, sooooo... That's pretty much just a really rough kiss
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2018 00:00
|
|
|
susie aint gonna bite anyones face off.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2018 00:04
|
|
|
Your Computer posted:consider a couple of questions - why are you asked to give them *your* name? Why do they (in the form of a knife-wielding murderchild) confront you in the *genocide* ending? It doesn't, though. The prompt is "Name the fallen human." You're *expected* to use your own name, but it never actually asks you what YOUR name is.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2018 00:04
|
|
|
Impermanent posted:also, in deltarune trump is president Deltarune: Undertale, But Trump Is President might end up as a good summary of this game in due time. Anyway, I played it, it was good, Spoopy Knife Child creeps me the gently caress out for whatever reason and I KNEW YOU WERE COMING YOU rear end in a top hat YOU COULDN'T FOOL ME, Suzie is character of the year. I think there are a lot of places Toby could go with the elements presented in this first chapter and it feels kinda futile to try and predict future stuff with what we got. It very much felt like the "Ruins" section of Undertale, but a bit expanded. The only thing I'll "predict" is that the meta aspects with Gaster/Chara aren't gonna overpower the "real" narrative. I don't even think Chara is "Chara", as in a manifestation of the player as someone that willingly pursed the worst path possible. There's definitely something dark going on with Kris, but it's already there. Whoever was going on about Spoopy Knife Child and feeling cheated because they never did Genocide and it was there for shock value...I'unno, poo poo's rearranged and this doesn't have to mean THAT.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2018 00:05
|
|
|
Speaking of names, At the start, if you name your character and yourself the same thing, there's a great bit of dialogue, which goes something like "Of course. Of course. Of course the names are the same" 
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2018 00:05
|
|
|
No. 1 Apartheid Fan posted:I think it's kinda pointless to speculate about what Deltarune is at this point, but if I had to, I'd wager that among other things, it's going to be about Toby's frustration with the idea of making a sequel to Undertale and the constraints and tyranny of expectations. Want to add a small point here that I don't think it's about frustration per se, because Toby's apparently been planning this since before Undertale even came out. The Beginner's Guide by the guy who made the Stanley Parable was, I think, more openly about resenting audience expectations, although your mileage may vary whether the author was expressing their own genuine resentment or commenting on it generally. This feels like a deliberate continuation of the plot, themes and discussion provoked by Undertale, and certainly playing with sequel expectations is part of it, but I don't get the feeling of "there shouldn't be a sequel and I'm going to deconstruct your desire for one" out of this. The sense of alternity, rearrangement, taking the familiar and reinterpreting it into something that feels tense, artificial and wrong definitely makes use of our audience expectations, as does expanding on and critiquing mechanics like sparing people or treating the entire Dark World adventure as a re-tread of the original, but I think these things are building on top of Undertale rather than just Toby spinning his wheels.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2018 00:07
|
|
|
Danaru posted:I legit didn't catch that, and I'm 100% for it You probably already know this, but back in the first game there was an update that added more dialogue for burgerpants. One of the new things he talks about is the Nice Cream guy, and here's what he has to say about him: "He keeps coming in here and asking me stuff like "Hey Burgy, what do you think of this joke for my next ice cream wrapper?"Joke? Why are you calling it a JOKE? You drew a picture of two dudes hugging and wrote "I love hugs!" on it. You somehow understand comedy EVEN LESS than that guy who keeps going on stage and crying about his family. Anyway, I, uh, just tell him that they're good, because he gives me the nice cream for free afterward..." If Burgerpants and Nice Cream Guy end up dating in Deltarune I'm counting this as foreshadowing. Also, apparently you can find Onionsan in the town somewhere, but I'm not sure where. I also can't find Noelle, can anyone tell me where she is?
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2018 00:09
|
|
|
Space Cadet Omoly posted:Onionsan in the town somewhere, but I'm not sure where. I also can't find Noelle, can anyone tell me where she is? I'm guessing the first person is by the lake. Water and all that. The second's in the hospital, then you can meet her by the gate near the entrance to your house.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2018 00:14
|
|
|
Space Cadet Omoly posted:You probably already know this, but back in the first game there was an update that added more dialogue for burgerpants. One of the new things he talks about is the Nice Cream guy, and here's what he has to say about him: I did not know this but I'm very happy about it 
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2018 00:15
|
|
|
Space Cadet Omoly posted:Also, apparently you can find Onionsan in the town somewhere, but I'm not sure where. I also can't find Noelle, can anyone tell me where she is? For the first character, stand on the spot by the lake for a little while. For the second, visit the hospital and then the black gate by the left end of town.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2018 00:16
|
|
|
Watching Lauren the Flute play through it, I noticed that in the shower, there's a giant tub of "pet shampoo" (presumably for Toriel and Asriel) and a small bottle of normal shampoo (presumable for Kris). This seems to imply that this is still a world "dominated by humans" in the sense that monsters have to use ersatz products like that, which are actually intended for humans (to use on their pets in this case). Real Deltaruneverse socioeconomic worldbuilding theorycrafting hours, whomst up
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2018 00:21
|
|
|
GunnerJ posted:Watching Lauren the Flute play through it, I noticed that in the shower, there's a giant tub of "pet shampoo" (presumably for Toriel and Asriel) and a small bottle of normal shampoo (presumable for Kris). This seems to imply that this is still a world "dominated by humans" in the sense that monsters have to use ersatz products like that, which are actually intended for humans (to use on their pets in this case). Real Deltaruneverse socioeconomic worldbuilding theorycrafting hours, whomst up Don't even tempt me to write about the socioeconomic struggles of monsters vs humans and why it's okay to bring back guillotines since Toriel and Asgore are no longer royalty. Needless to say I've been thinking about it. 
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2018 00:23
|
|
|
Danaru posted:Don't even tempt me to write about the socioeconomic struggles of monsters vs humans and why it's okay to bring back guillotines since Toriel and Asgore are no longer royalty. Needless to say I've been thinking about it. 
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2018 00:24
|
|
|
voltcatfish posted:To be honest I just want to help fix all of my family and friends' problems. If I can't ultimately do that, in Deltarune, I'll be a little sad But what if doing that makes everything worse?
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2018 00:26
|
|
|
Having the epiphany that the game has no futile ACT commands either. It’s such a curveball on agency and inevitability after the smorgasbord of choice Undertale gave you ever since that game’s demo came out
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2018 00:28
|
|
|
Dolash posted:I gotta know if this is going to be episodic or if this is more like the Undertale Kickstarter demo before the full release further down the line, and I also gotta know when the next chapter(s) coming out, because I have work to do and can't just be thinking Undertale thoughts all day for the next week. Well it literally says "To be continued in Chapter 2" at the end so I'm guessing the former (the game also seems too long to just be a demo), it's possible there could still be a release later down the line that cobbles all the chapters together into one game though.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2018 00:36
|
|
|
If the divide between the player and Kris is going to be significant and widening going forward, I'll be interest to see if the player can develop a connection to other characters directly somehow rather than mediated through Kris, who you seem to have effectively hijacked and who rejects your influence. In Undertale, in the pacifist route, you and Frisk's interests seemed to align, while in Genocide Frisk is subsumed by you/Chara, so either way both the player and protagonists' relations to other characters align until you decouple from them at the end of each route. Kris going back to antagonizing people without your friend-making influence seems like a similar sort of adversarial spin on the last game's player-to-character relationship as having to manage Susie the murderous partymember was. That's part of the reason I think the "vessel" you made may return, since it'd give you a body through which to interact with characters directly instead of through Kris, but I wonder if they'd exist as a distinct person as well or be a true empty vessel player-insert? Dolash fucked around with this message at 00:42 on Nov 2, 2018 |
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2018 00:39
|
|
|
So is it true that this game reads your Undertale save for something special, because I don't want to miss out on anything but I also don't want to dig out my old PC and hook it up to copy my Undertale save file off if I don't have to
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2018 00:48
|
|
|
      (source)
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2018 00:48
|
|
|
loving 
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2018 00:50
|
|
|
Can I get some help for something? I can't figure this out. "walk where the stars don't shine" I don't remember if that's the exact quote.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2018 01:14
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 04:51 |
|
|
Ryuga Death posted:Can I get some help for something? I can't figure this out. "walk where the stars don't shine" I don't remember if that's the exact quote. in the dark place with the weird dancers there are secret passages - just look for pieces of land that are inaccessible via the normal pathways and press against the walls until you find the way there
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2018 01:19
|
|
