|
Ryuga Death posted:Can I get some help for something? I can't figure this out. "walk where the stars don't shine" I don't remember if that's the exact quote. There is a room that has a background of moving stars, in the forest I think. there is a hidden path you can find in this room which is not visible but blocks out stars that pass through it.
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2018 01:20
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 21:48 |
|
|
Dolash posted:If the divide between the player and Kris is going to be significant and widening going forward, I'll be interest to see if the player can develop a connection to other characters directly somehow rather than mediated through Kris, who you seem to have effectively hijacked and who rejects your influence. The main thing I object to in this theory is that Kris doesn't "reject" our influence, they want us around. It's unclear WHY they want us, but they do. They ending shows that Kris could remove us at any time, they just choose not to until it's time to go eat ALL the pie. Also, does anyone else think Kris might not actually be evil? So far the only bad things we've seen them do is eat a bunch of pie and self mutilate. Those seem more like the actions of a depressed teenager in need of emotional support rather a genocidal maniac. If you talk to people around town they all have nice things to say about Kris, things that have nothing to do with YOU the player: Kris likes to play piano at the hospital, Kris loves their brother and their parents and has lots of happy memories with them, Kris is friends with all the kids in his class and his neighbors, Kris is by all accounts a good person. The only real 'negative' thing we learn about Kris is that after his parents divorced and his brother moved out to go to college he became more quiet and withdrawn, which seems like a super normal thing for a teenager going through a stressful life change to do. It seems a little narcissistic to cast us, the player, the hero and this poor sad kid as the ultimate villain. In the first game the main character only becomes evil if the player takes great effort to guide them onto that path. At this point it seems way more likely that Kris was just an ordinary kid going through a hard time who started experimenting with soul removal after his family started falling apart because he was so tired of feeling sad he would rather just feel nothing. This, unintentionally, opened a gateway through reality and allowed the player to take control of Kris. Kris allows this, because he's just that lonely and likes feeling connected to something. Anything. Except when it's pie time. Pie time is for Kris and Kris alone. So, yeah, if I had to guess I'd we're the baddies. Us, the players, not Kris. Because we're the ones taking advantage of a sad little kid for fun.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2018 01:27
|
|
|
Space Cadet Omoly posted:The main thing I object to in this theory is that Kris doesn't "reject" our influence, they want us around. It's unclear WHY they want us, but they do. They ending shows that Kris could remove us at any time, they just choose not to until it's time to go eat ALL the pie. I really like this theory. I feel like Kris is a bit more of an outcast than this description says, since it seems like of your class only Noelle is really a good friend to you. The others seem like acquaintances at best, at least until you and Susie go on your adventure. But that's okay, because in real life you aren't super ultra-close best friends with everyone. Your classmates are going to rip on you, but they'll also chat with you. Some will be cool, some will be dicks, but it isn't necessarily going to be some big, magical found family. They even show that with the main Undertale cast. Of course they feel less cozy, because it isn't like a random police officer or your nervous teacher are going to fall over their feet praising you. And when this lonesome, quirky, sad kid is suddenly possessed and going around acting like a big hero, of course people are going to find it weird and a little uncomfortable.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2018 01:42
|
|
|
So has anyone brought up that Sariel, fresh prince of the discarded toy kingdom, has red horns like the ones Kris discarded. It's probably actually nothing though.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2018 01:48
|
|
|
The Bee posted:I really like this theory. I feel like Kris is a bit more of an outcast than this description says, since it seems like of your class only Noelle is really a good friend to you. The others seem like acquaintances at best, at least until you and Susie go on your adventure. But that's okay, because in real life you aren't super ultra-close best friends with everyone. Your classmates are going to rip on you, but they'll also chat with you. Some will be cool, some will be dicks, but it isn't necessarily going to be some big, magical found family. They even show that with the main Undertale cast. Of course they feel less cozy, because it isn't like a random police officer or your nervous teacher are going to fall over their feet praising you. Did they act like a hero outside of the Dark WOrld or whatever it was called
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2018 01:53
|
|
|
Question Friend posted:Did they act like a hero outside of the Dark WOrld or whatever it was called Okay, true, so they didn't really. But they're clearly a little bit off from usual, as you learn if you try to play the piano at the hospital.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2018 01:55
|
|
|
oh no apparently there are minor differences between the save state slots regardless of the state of your save. Only confirmed that the drawer in Kris' room on Asriel's side has a different item in it, but the item is dependent on which save slot you use and not the actual state of your save. It changes if you copy your save to a different slot. the items aren't really super relevant; slots 1 2 and 3 are "A torn cross country shirt", "A school photo ID with an embarrassing haircut", and "A coupon book for pizza (all expired)" if I were toby I'd throw that in just to piss people off, but we've got some time before we could call this a red herring or chekhov's gun
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2018 02:12
|
|
|
The more I think about it, the more I think the person who said you might be forced to choose between the original Undertale universe and the Deltarune one at the end might be on to something. Aside from Deltarune, Undertale anagrams out to two different complete words: UNALTERED, as has been pointed out before, and UNRELATED. So when it comes to the Undertale universe you know and love, you can have it back UNALTERED, meaning everyone gets their happy endings back but Asriel goes back to being dead, and Kris, Susie, Ralsei, and all the other new characters are erased, as are the people they become and everything and everyone they affect their journey. Or you can have the Deltarune universe and let it continue on as it is at the end of this story, but UNRELATED to the Undertale one, so Frisk is gone, and all the work they put into that world is gone with them. And you just have to accept that, like you agreed to when you installed the game... nine-gear crow fucked around with this message at 02:15 on Nov 2, 2018 |
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2018 02:12
|
|
|
The Bee posted:I really like this theory. I feel like Kris is a bit more of an outcast than this description says, since it seems like of your class only Noelle is really a good friend to you. The others seem like acquaintances at best, at least until you and Susie go on your adventure. But that's okay, because in real life you aren't super ultra-close best friends with everyone. Your classmates are going to rip on you, but they'll also chat with you. Some will be cool, some will be dicks, but it isn't necessarily going to be some big, magical found family. They even show that with the main Undertale cast. Of course they feel less cozy, because it isn't like a random police officer or your nervous teacher are going to fall over their feet praising you. Monster Kid is still your friend, they seem super bummed about not getting to be your partner in class (or maybe you aren't friends yet and they just have a slight crush on you, either one seems likely, teenagers can be hormonal like that), but yeah, the main take away is that Kris isn't a super evil genocidal mastermind, they're just an ordinary kid who's been having troubles at home that they don't know how to deal with and started experimenting with dangerous things out of depression and loneliness. The whole soul possession/removal thing seems like a direct parallel to drugs or alcohol abuse: When Kris has a human soul inside of them they become detached and numb, so much so that people who are at all familiar with how they normally act are able to tell something is off. They wander around going random places and interacting with things that they normally wouldn't touch. Normal tasks that used to be super easy for them (like playing the piano) are now extremely difficult. Oh, and in the middle of the night they wake up hungover and do some good old fashioned binge eating.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2018 02:45
|
|
|
RE: Legend Did a second playthrough, I feel there is something genuinely wrong with the legend as told by Ralsei. http://youtu.be/OoQ8uSf-O5c?t=150 If you go to the 2:30 mark, you'll notice that the music cuts off just after it finishes the line "But recently, another fountain has appeared on the horizon". There's an implication that the song was meant to finish on a different line, and the rest is added on by Ralsei for some reason. The rest of the legend has some suspect stuff too, like how "The Prince from the Dark" is very mary sue-like, and that the three of them are meant to "seal fountains and banish angel's heaven". The mcguffin of the legend never transpires - kris and susie goes to the extra fountain to go home, and ralsei never joins you for that last bit. It's almost like he made up a bunch of stuff just to get in an adventure with someone, even going so far as to create a training dummy based on himself. lancer also seems to have no idea why his dad is telling him to stop the people from doing something to the dark fountain, the latter who alludes to some destruction of the darkners. i'm suspecting chapter 2 onwards may show you the implications of kris and susie entering the fountain, and none of those are going to be positive
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2018 03:01
|
|
|
Danaru posted:I did not know this but I'm very happy about it It sure seems like said crush is completely unreciprocated by Burgerpants, mind you. He's only interested in the alley gator and the alley cat.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2018 03:09
|
|
|
The Saddest Rhino posted:RE: Legend I don't fully agree. The song trails off like that as a narrative cue. As for the legend itself, it probably is at least partially made up, but the Spade King basically outright stated he wants to kill all the lightners. Honestly, the biggest missing piece is the reason why the darkners were locked away to begin with. This isn't like Undertale where there was a war. The darkners overall like serving lightners, and they were made for that purpose. All I can think of right now is the possibility that they were made as soldiers to fight monsters in the old war, and once the war was over they weren't needed anymore and humans were xenophobic about even their own creations.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2018 03:13
|
|
|
GeneX posted:alley gator Aw gently caress me
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2018 03:14
|
|
|
McFrugal posted:I don't fully agree. The song trails off like that as a narrative cue. As for the legend itself, it probably is at least partially made up, but the Spade King basically outright stated he wants to kill all the lightners. Honestly, the biggest missing piece is the reason why the darkners were locked away to begin with. This isn't like Undertale where there was a war. The darkners overall like serving lightners, and they were made for that purpose. All I can think of right now is the possibility that they were made as soldiers to fight monsters in the old war, and once the war was over they weren't needed anymore and humans were xenophobic about even their own creations. The reason is because the school stopped using that classroom.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2018 03:19
|
|
|
the "different items in different save slots" thing maybe makes me think that the point of this is that deltarune is taking in teh idea that there will be thousands of people playing this game. So it doesn't matter what action "you" take. Because someone else playing undertale WILL take it. That's why the multiple slightly different versions of your brother based on the item on their side of the room. All of those different versions will exist, played by different players.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2018 03:23
|
|
|
There's a lot to unpack and read into (there's is years of love and effort put into this) but to put it succinctly as I can, time changes people and it can feel like you've Mandela'd into an alternate universe that scares, confuses and hurts you. Gonna go ahead and repost this spoilery video from up thread about metaphors in the movie ANNIHILATION: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URo66iLNEZw It's difficult to put down my thoughts on Kris cause it hits really close to home. Being shy/reserved and getting his thoughts misinterpreted, self harm, retreating from reality into games and throwing their heart in a cage to lock up the hurt along with the good parts of themself. Kris is gonna be a selfish little prick and go eat all the loving pie to feel like he has power and control. And it's gonna feel and taste drat good.  e; Susie joining Kris in a game/fantasy world and coming out the other side friends is amazing. 
MariusLecter fucked around with this message at 03:30 on Nov 2, 2018 |
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2018 03:24
|
|
|
Kind of hope that the whole game will be free and make all its income through ancillary merch sales.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2018 03:28
|
|
|
Space Cadet Omoly posted:So, yeah, if I had to guess I'd we're the baddies. Us, the players, not Kris. Because we're the ones taking advantage of a sad little kid for fun. Kris also looks like something is puppeting them at the end, rather than being entirely in control. Could be a "fighting against our influence" thing, but it's super jerky in a very unnatural way, and it's not like Kris hasn't also moved without our input previously (in various cutscenes in the game, Kris moves without player input. I think? If they don't, then suddenly things are very interesting. Kris may just be a kind of lonely teenager who doesn't talk much, rather than a demonic figure, and is now shuffling between who the heck is possessing them. Too early to tell!
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2018 03:29
|
|
|
So, the question of the hour: Do you guys think this is something where Toby has been cooking up just this chapter over the last few years, and will add to it every year or so? Or, does he have most of the chapters in place and releasing this first chapter was intended to start up the hype machine for the full release soon-ish?
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2018 03:30
|
|
|
Space Cadet Omoly posted:The main thing I object to in this theory is that Kris doesn't "reject" our influence, they want us around. It's unclear WHY they want us, but they do. They ending shows that Kris could remove us at any time, they just choose not to until it's time to go eat ALL the pie. Yeah I guess I should be careful to say that Kris being separated from the player or antagonistic to them doesn't necessarily make them a Chara-esque knife-wielding murderer. The comparison to Susie's antagonism in this chapter underlines that she didn't have to be a villain to have an antagonistic relationship with the player that ultimately made the journey as much or more about her arc* as what you were doing. Similarly, if the player and Kris come into conflict in some way (Kris might have a right to not want to be possessed, after all), that doesn't meant they won't reconcile and realign later after some sort of development. Or of course, other entities might be contesting control of Kris, and there's lots of ways that could play out - having to be their Flowey or ear-whispering Chara trying to sway them could be interesting. *I really loved the bit with Lancer and Susie fighting, and Lancer starting to pull his punches. For a moment I thought "eh, I've seen this trick before with Toriel," but then I realized the point was watching Susie go through the same transformation the player is supposed to experience their first time through Undertale. She makes the connection that Lancer can't bring himself to kill her and she's moved to end the fight non-violently. The whole Dark Realm story was basically accompanying Susie as a player undergoing the arc expected of the player from Undertale, which was very cool. And also worries me we'll experience a similar "accompanying someone through an Undertale playthrough transformation" in a later chapter with the game's other major route. Dolash fucked around with this message at 03:32 on Nov 2, 2018 |
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2018 03:30
|
|
|
super sweet best pal posted:Kind of hope that the whole game will be free and make all its income through ancillary merch sales. It's certainly possible! I mean, I already bought the soundtrack, so 
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2018 03:30
|
|
|
super sweet best pal posted:Kind of hope that the whole game will be free and make all its income through ancillary merch sales. toby fox probably doesn't need to work another day in his life so i could see him releasing everything for free tbh something posted:So, the question of the hour: god i hope not
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2018 03:31
|
|
|
GeneX posted:Kris also looks like something is puppeting them at the end, rather than being entirely in control. Could be a "fighting against our influence" thing, but it's super jerky in a very unnatural way, and it's not like Kris hasn't also moved without our input previously (in various cutscenes in the game, Kris moves without player input. I think? If they don't, then suddenly things are very interesting. Kris may just be a kind of lonely teenager who doesn't talk much, rather than a demonic figure, and is now shuffling between who the heck is possessing them. Too early to tell! After many (most?) cutscene bits Kris will usually turn to face downwards/towards you, though I don't recall if they walk in their own.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2018 03:35
|
|
|
Just did a no-saves run to see if anything changed based on that and it did not. The playthrough wasn't even recognized on the main screen.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2018 03:37
|
|
|
GeneX posted:It's certainly possible! I mean, I already bought the soundtrack, so re: toby fox 
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2018 03:38
|
|
|
dmboogie posted:toby fox probably doesn't need to work another day in his life so i could see him releasing everything for free tbh Toby fox has mentioned being scared to release another game, as it will be impossible to live up to the expectations, both reasonable ones and the unreasonable ones people build in their heads. If he does choose to make this game free I'd just hope it isn't because he is scared of ripping people off with a merely good game or whatever.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2018 03:41
|
|
|
I mean, Toby probably has been spending a non-trivial part of his time over the last few years working on the PS4 and Switch versions of Undertale. Porting can take a lot of effort when the original wasn't written with porting in mind, and here the original was written by one guy on a $50,000 budget in loving Gamemaker.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2018 03:41
|
|
|
pumpinglemma posted:I mean, Toby probably has been spending a non-trivial part of his time over the last few years working on the PS4 and Switch versions of Undertale. Porting can take a lot of effort when the original wasn't written with porting in mind, and here the original was written by one guy on a $50,000 budget in loving Gamemaker. Toby Fox spent all his money to get Sans into Ultimate Smash. It'll be his final sacrifice to save mankind.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2018 03:46
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/BoredmanDA/status/1058022398962786304
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2018 03:47
|
|
|
something posted:So, the question of the hour: Toby twitter just posted that he had Delta Rune game script stuff being worked on as far back as 2012. I don't know if that answers this question in anyway I just need people to know this my mind is blown. Like files for lancer and suzie's face, older then the Undertale KICKSTARTER.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2018 03:49
|
|
|
Guys, guys. I realize something. In a fresh deck of cards, you have your 4 sets of 13 cards. 52. Then your two jokers (red and black, or light and dark). Then, in fresh decks, one more card. A rules card. Why did I just realize this?!
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2018 03:50
|
|
|
toby wrote the basis of the hidden boss fight text script in may 2012 with susie art files from jul-aug 2013. There's probably a good bit of stuff completed or being finalized, with some potentially having being worked on alongside undertale's original release. The kickstarter for undertale was started jun 2013, with its official release Sep 2015.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2018 03:50
|
|
|
Whitenoise Poster posted:Toby twitter just posted that he had Delta Rune game script stuff being worked on as far back as 2012. The way I see it, there are two possibilities. The first is it's fake, which several people have pointed out how easy it is to fake a file date. The second is that Deltarune is the first game Toby started making and then, for whatever reason, repurposed most its assets into Undertale.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2018 03:51
|
|
|
Dolash posted:And also worries me we'll experience a similar "accompanying someone through an Undertale playthrough transformation" in a later chapter with the game's other major route. We're going to turn Noelle into a homicidal maniac. 
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2018 03:54
|
|
|
Somebody please find a friend who has never played Undertale and have them play Deltarune first, followed by Undertale. TIA.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2018 03:56
|
|
|
Not that Toby Fox hasn't already earned the benefit of the doubt, but it doesn't hurt knowing that this game, in some form, has been under consideration and development for at least as long as Undertale itself. It makes it seem like less of a bolted-on sequel made from a cold start and more like a deliberate extension where he knows where it's going. Hell if it were nothing more than this first chapter I'd say he's already put out an excellent standalone retrospective, going further from there is gravy.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2018 03:59
|
|
|
MAN I really like the idea that deltarune is the "original" rather than a spin-off.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2018 03:59
|
|
|
GunnerJ posted:The reason is because the school stopped using that classroom. Oh gently caress that makes too much sense.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2018 04:03
|
|
|
Jon Joe posted:The way I see it, there are two possibilities. or the third, much more likely, possibility that deltarune is using ideas that he had while brainstorming for undertale that didn't end up making it into the final game
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2018 04:03
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 21:48 |
|
|
flatluigi posted:or the third, much more likely, possibility that deltarune is using ideas that he had while brainstorming for undertale that didn't end up making it into the final game With Gaster being a metaphor for cut content...
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2018 04:04
|
|