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Brood War isn't really balanced by virtue of each side being asymmetrical yet equal but rather by clever map design by third-parties. For instance when Starcraft was originally released the now traditional structure of starting positions having a close ramp was not ubiquitous - plenty of the original Blizzard maps designed for multiplayer have completely open starting positions or only have choke points miles away from the base. Great maps cleverly designed to get the best out of the game is what really made Starcraft viable as a competitive game. Apart from the base game nothing that Blizzard did had any effect on turning Starcraft into ultimately the game with the best pro-scene ever. Warcraft 3 is a better balanced game in a vacuum but the maps never got as well defined as they did for Starcraft (probably due to Blizzard being aware of the pro-scene and keeping tighter control over it). The fact that Warcraft 3 had a healthy and vibrant pro-scene (featuring periods of dominance for every race) for many years while largely relying on unaltered Blizzard ladder maps is testament to how well the game is balanced, especially considering the difficulty of balancing 4 factions.
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May 13, 2018 01:26
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| # ? May 16, 2024 17:20 |
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The thread hasn't focused enough on what a massive change the addition of True Widescreen is and DOUBLING the maximum playercount from 12 to 24. I just got done doing a 1v23 Insane AIs FFA and holy poo poo it was literally a 7th grade boyhood fantasy come true. The new colors are dope as gently caress (I chose Maroon humans) and it was just a blast, towered Snow colored night elves like a bitch, had to harvest in low upkeep to survive attacks from green undead, turquoise orcs, black orcs, Brown night elves, purple humans. Chose the 'madness on the barrens' custom 24p map so actually the gold supply was kinda tight, had to build a buncha morts and arcane towers to scout the remaining mines. And the final battle was against Violet undead and Mint night elves. In the end, sped around with Mass Teleport, legion of doomhorn, jango of endurance, a big army and a bunch of tanks to clean up the buildings. Final Gametime: 2:07:05, Units killed: 581, Buildings razed: 287, Heroes killed: 40. But it felt like about 45 minutes. I realize its not hard or impressive but it was stupidly fun. Also I've found the game can handle 24 insane AIs just as long as the map is open and the AI can path the way it wants to. If you go hide in a corner with all the AIs against you, like FunnyWarcraft3 did in a 1v23 AIs game (exponentially harder than what I did ofc) then the pathing fucks and the FPS drops to 0. It's a game engine limitation. Still haven't assessed lagginess in a game with an insane number of units like WW3, hopefully some of those engine limits were improved upon. btw, the official new color names, courtesy of the 1.29.0b patch notes: Player 13 - Maroon (AWESOME, people will call it Dark Red.) Player 14 - Navy (AWESOME, remember it looks like Dark Blue. Maybe should be called that?) Player 15 - Turquoise (AWESOME, but confusable with Teal! Just remember its brighter) Player 16 - Violet (AWESOME, just remember its like pink but way brighter!) Player 17 - Wheat (AWESOME, surprisingly. Maybe they should call it sand? People might call it tan) Player 18 - Peach (AWESOME, could also be called Salmon.) Player 19 - Mint (AWESOME, people will call it Light Green.) Player 20 - Lavender (Fine, though I had no idea what color this was until I looked it up!) Player 21 - Coal (Fine, but why can't they call it black? I guess because True black is creeps) Player 22 - Snow (Fine, but why can't they call it white? I guess because your base/units are white on the minimap. Also I think some of the buildings textures are misaligned on this one, undead ziggurats look white but the Necropolis looks like light blue. Think they were going for Lordaeron's light blue color from WC2) Player 23 - Emerald (This color is OK, but its too confusable with green and dark green. There are 4 greens now!) - maybe replace with Dark Yellow, Gold, Light Red, or Superdark Reddish-brown. Ultradark black-blue is another option. Player 24 - Peanut (AWESOME, not sure if people will call it Dark Orange or Light Brown, I'd guess the latter. People might even call it tan or dark tan.) Just having these new colors is INCREDIBLE I feel like I've entered a baskin robbins for the first time and can choose from a bunch of colorful zesty new flavors. Or like I bought a bag of Tropical skittles for the first time after only having original. Every custom I play from now on I'm choosing from the new colors. Fortunately the original 12 colors were left alone. I can recognize all 24 now but it helps I had 16 years to learn the original 12, from countless FFAs, 6v6s, Europa's, LOTRs, 12p TDs, footman frenzies, Risks, WW3s and more. If I were new it would be WAY harder. BTW if anyone has issues with the patch: You can repair your install using the War3 launcher in its directory. Remember to backup your customkeys first. Seems like they finally got rid of the last remnant of the CD nag. Only issue I have now is re-setting the resolution every time I run the game but thats minor. Eregos fucked around with this message at 19:01 on May 19, 2018 |
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May 19, 2018 08:22
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Out of wonder, have any of the bugfix patches fixed the campaign? I know it was borked for a bit.
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May 20, 2018 11:06
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Linear Zoetrope posted:Out of wonder, have any of the bugfix patches fixed the campaign? I know it was borked for a bit. I notice people are still complaining about it on the forums so I don't think so. I think it's only the Rexxar campaign that has huge crashing problems because it's the one that's played across multiple maps. So you should be mostly fine if you just play the other campaigns. I just hope they patch the matchmaking system to make it more lenient with who you match with, because as it is it can take up to 40min to find a 4v4 game. Fanatic fucked around with this message at 14:06 on May 20, 2018 |
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May 20, 2018 14:04
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Fanatic posted:I just hope they patch the matchmaking system to make it more lenient with who you match with, because as it is it can take up to 40min to find a 4v4 game. They did! No idea what the actual changes are or if they helped, though!
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May 22, 2018 23:17
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I beat Insane AIs in a 1v2v2v2v2v2v2v2v2v2v2v2v1, took 3:30. Did it on a hard map too (Island Expedition), no islands to run to, had to be pretty clever. Beating teams of two was a fun challenge, not incredible but a definite step up from FFA. I set the AIs to be all 10 combinations of 2 races, Hu-Hu, Hu-Orc, etc. Final opponent was Hu-Orc, naturally. They rocked my armies a few times 3 hours in, even with a perfect 100 food army it was difficult to beat both of them together in a straight-up fight. One of the teams got screwed up somehow and was actually a team of 4, I didn't realize and it almost cost me the game an hour in. I checked the alliances before I started, probably I missed it but there could also be an occasional bug with the alliance logic like there is with the spawn position logic in 24p games. Fortunately I didn't spawn next to that team and they got unlucky, sacked heavily not long in and turned into a team of 2.5. As expected the game DID NOT lag because the map layout was open and the AIs could path. I also played as the white humans because I play as the white humans IRL. I'll probably at least attempt 1v3v3v3v3v3v3v3v2 at some point but unless the map is really favorable or I hide in some unpathable area it will test me to my limits. I recommend returning veterans to try at least one 1v23 Insane AI FFA, Few RTS games allow for so many players so it’s a neat thing to experience. Pretty straightforward to survive in an FFA, though if you don’t build some static defense you risk losing to bad luck – you can easily have 5, 6, 7, 9 Insane AIs attack your base in the span of a few minutes, even a pro would have difficulty surviving that without static defense in the midgame. Remember the Insane AIs get double gold income, so they can rebuild several times after getting wiped out even on onebase, though they spend their cheated gold gradually if deprived of income. Critically the AI's can see the entire map, it's been tested, so 'always visible' is a good game setting, also makes cleanup at the end much faster. In terms of 24p maps (PVP or vs AI) I recommend Madness in the Barrens, Island Expedition, Ace of Spades. Market Squares also works with the AI but the layout is kinda boring. Certain versions of Divide & Conquer XL are good but the best one I got from a lobby host and they're hard to tell apart. On the custom’s front I was disappointed, none of the bothosted games I've seen thus far took advantage of playerslots 13+. I guess mapmakers are still working on that. I see potential in hero-oriented games using them but the problem is the playerbase has declined too much. It would’ve been awesome if we’d gotten this back in 2011. I bet I’ll get in on some massive games at some point though, wtiicraft has some good youtube vids of 24p games. Also replays play up to 32X speed now. Eregos fucked around with this message at 13:11 on Jun 20, 2018 |
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Jun 20, 2018 12:55
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What level were your heroes. How would you go about testing to see if the AI has all view
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Jun 23, 2018 07:30
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Milo and POTUS posted:How would you go about testing to see if the AI has all view I've been playing a bit of 24 Insane AI games myself and in ones where I have them as allies I notice they tend to ping enemy expansions regularly, despite them being unexplored. So either the Insanes want to creep something on the other side of the map for no reason (judging how stupid the AI is it wouldn't surprise me), or they have All Visible and want to take out the expo. There's a mod called AMAI which gives the AI different strategies and whatnot that I used to play around with back in the day. I haven't tried it with the new patch and I'm on a Mac so it'd be too much of a hassle anyway, but it looks like the player edition still works - http://www.wc3c.net/showthread.php?t=110688
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Jun 25, 2018 03:02
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People tested this scientifically, and it 100% lines up with my experience. There's no doubt whatsoever the AI can see the entire map. As I understand it they tested maps with lots of choices and consistently saw the AI choose paths that led to enemy/player bases without scouting. The AI makes a choice about what it wants to do, usually it will be creeping/expanding/attacking somebody else but if it wants to attack you, it goes straight to your base without scouting. On huge maps the distinction if obvious - in one scenario the AI creeps short to mid distances around its base, the attack scenario will see it go all the way to the completely unscouted opposite side of the map. One little secret is the AI always pings, even when playing on a team by itself (you can see this if you look at a replay from the AI's perspective). Goes without saying you always end up with 3 level 10 heroes by the end of a giant compstomp. I was reading about AMAI last week but was disappointed it can't integrate into the game anymore, at least that part hasn't been updated. It has to be enabled for a specific map, which I still plan to try. I'll start with a 23 Insane AMAI game as a stress test, if that works everything lesser should too. Eregos fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Jun 29, 2018 |
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Jun 29, 2018 20:48
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNUIMxTURbM Orcs were very mean back then
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Jun 30, 2018 13:12
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Milo and POTUS posted:Make WC4 in the vein of what they were planning with WC3 in early development. If done well, I'd kinda like to see how a competitive scene of the sort would go. The RPG-RTS hybrid they were making before they switched WC3 to a regular RTS sounded really cool. Sort of like a King's Bounty game except in real time.
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Jul 2, 2018 15:34
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Node posted:The RPG-RTS hybrid they were making before they switched WC3 to a regular RTS sounded really cool. Sort of like a King's Bounty game except in real time. Something like Sacrifice?
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Jul 2, 2018 21:25
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Please forgive the utterly shameless smugpost but I have nowhere else to put it   The competiton on Battle.net aint what it used to be but this game is still fun as hell, my personal favourite ever. Looking forward to 1.30. Bonus salt:    (after winning a fight, assuming he had won)  Followed up by a barrage of post-game PMs making vague threats and wishing cancer upon me and all my relatives. 
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Aug 5, 2018 13:06
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Patch 1.30 is live!
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Aug 8, 2018 18:33
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How the gently caress do I get widescreen resolutions, did widescreen support get removed? Am I a big dumbass?
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Aug 16, 2018 22:47
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General Battuta posted:How the gently caress do I get widescreen resolutions, did widescreen support get removed? Am I a big dumbass? Are you talking about in-game or the menus? The menus were reverted to 4:3 with black bars but in-game it should be widescreen. Otherwise you might be on an old patch of the game (like maybe you're using an old CD) in which case I suggest you register your CD key to your Blizzard account and download the game from the battle.net website.
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Aug 20, 2018 08:55
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What possible spawns are there for 2v2 on Turtle rock? Left v Right for sure but are the top spawns ever pitted against bottom spawns? Or some diagonal arrangement?
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Oct 18, 2018 10:09
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It's always top vs bottom. e: wait I'm confused now. The person in the "close spawn" position will always be your teammate.
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Oct 18, 2018 10:14
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Wow that was fast. Yeah I meant having an enemy at close spawn for both sides.
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Oct 18, 2018 10:19
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hey fellow war3 fans https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2zfx5hQ3CE
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Nov 2, 2018 21:00
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Hail to the motherfucking king. CAN NOT WAIT
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Nov 2, 2018 21:04
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Some of those animations are terrible. None of the attacks look like they have any weight to them. Compare the Tauren swinging at the building 14 seconds in. His totem just gracefully floats a 180 degree arc on his wrist with no impact or sense of inertia. Uther's warhammer strikes are the same way. Compare them to the animations found http://classic.battle.net/war3/orc/units/tauren.shtml and http://classic.battle.net/war3/human/units/paladin.shtml where it looks like their attacks have some weight to them. Yeah it's a while away, but some of that doesn't look very good at all at this point.
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Nov 2, 2018 21:16
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I beg for campaign co-op
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Nov 2, 2018 21:22
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This'll be fun. I was thinking of playing Warcraft 3 again soon so I guess I'll just wait for this. I'm very excited for the multiplayer scene though. Talking about BurbTD, elemental TD, tower wars, FFORPG, ToB, vampirism/island defense. I'm very excited. Diablo 2 remake when.
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Nov 2, 2018 22:11
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I have bought warcraft 3 three times, the second time because my brother melted the discs and I got a new computer, the third because I forgot my original battle.net login, so gently caress it I'll buy this a 4th time.Orcs and Ostriches posted:Some of those animations are terrible. None of the attacks look like they have any weight to them. I agree with this though, I much prefer the weight and impact of the original animations. They look like they're doing the WoW thing of swinging vaguely in the enemies' direction with no impact point because you can't be sure of the exact angle the opponent is at. sirtommygunn fucked around with this message at 22:18 on Nov 2, 2018 |
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Nov 2, 2018 22:15
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At the very least, we can hope that animations improve before release - they do say art and such aren't finalized right there in the trailer. But yes, this has me very excited. HD Warcraft 3! I wonder if any of the old Warcraft 3 custom content will be compatible with Reforged, or if people who wanna make custom content for it will have to start from scratch?
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Nov 2, 2018 22:23
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Pre-ordered Reforged as soon as it became available. So excited to be able to play Warcraft 3 again and in 4K.
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Nov 2, 2018 22:26
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Oh, great. Just look at all that. This feels like Starcraft HD all over again. 
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Nov 2, 2018 22:27
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gently caress yeah dude. I'm of the opinion that WC3's single player stuff is way, way more enjoyable to play through again than Starcraft 1's was. Really glad to see this getting a re-release.
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Nov 2, 2018 22:29
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BlazetheInferno posted:At the very least, we can hope that animations improve before release - they do say art and such aren't finalized right there in the trailer. From the official press release via Wowhead https://www.wowhead.com/news=288360/warcraft-iii-reforged-what-we-know-pricing-spoils-of-war-edition-and-more Blizzard posted:Warcraft III’s dedicated community of mapmakers has kept the game thriving since it launched in 2002, and Reforged boasts an improved World Editor highly influenced by an ongoing dialogue with this talented group of creators. With countless new tools and features, the World Editor will set mapmakers free to craft new universes for players to enjoy. Existing custom maps will be playable in Reforged, and players will be able to use the new matchmaker to find partners or opponents for traditional melee and custom games. definitely going to try and finish that advance wars port I started when the last big patch hit. e: ummm, so about that editor revamp... cause the current one is a little broken in 4k FoolyCharged fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Nov 2, 2018 |
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Nov 2, 2018 22:35
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Dude, I can't wait to see Rise of the Blood Elves and Curse of the Forsaken in Reforged, then. ...Though anything with Custom models and textures will... obviously require some work.
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Nov 2, 2018 22:43
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I definitely wasn't expecting them to actually remodel everything. All they need now is remastered/remade cinematics (not the animatic poo poo Starcraft got) and I'll buy and play the poo poo out of the campaign.
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Nov 2, 2018 23:17
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I'm just hoping the new editor does the thing the wc2 editor did with the wow models, so we get a huge variety to play with. Think of all the maps that used those lovely custom made starcraft models and imagine them with the real deal.
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Nov 2, 2018 23:29
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Steve2911 posted:I definitely wasn't expecting them to actually remodel everything. Well it does look like the cinematics are redone which is p cool
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Nov 2, 2018 23:49
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The remodels look amazing. So excited for this release.
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Nov 2, 2018 23:53
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Well, hot drat.
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Nov 3, 2018 00:37
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They're talking about beefing up the animations right now, so maybe it'll be okay later.
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Nov 3, 2018 01:49
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It's an interesting style choice to go for way more realistic portrait and unit animations. The more 'cartoony' style seemed to be a hallmark of the game and carried over into WoW. It's especially funny when certain cut-scenes in the latest expansion had super over the top talking animations as a nod to War3 and Starcraft, and now this remake has gone totally the other way. Looks great though. I wish they would do an HD remake of War2. I know the game play doesn't hold up or whatever but that's till my favourite. Nostalgia's a hell of a drug.
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Nov 3, 2018 02:55
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That is a lot more effort than I expected them to put in.
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Nov 3, 2018 02:55
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The line for the demo at blizzcon is way longer than I thought it would be. Game looks great though.
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Nov 3, 2018 03:08
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