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Cease to Hope posted:non-aligned is this weird potpourri of monarchies and fascists who didn't sign up with the axis and neutral liberal democracies I always thought "Authoritarian" or maybe "Reactionary" would fit the bill for them. It would be kind of cool if, when and if they eventually expand on the mechanical effects of ideologies, non-aligned came to function kind of like tengriism in EU4 which can have a syncretic religion chosen giving you some appropriate effects and modifiers and a diplomatic boost with that religion. It would be kind of interesting if the non-aligned ideology could do the same with the Democratic, Communist and Fascist ideologies, producing various kinds of authoritarian (but not necessarily totalitarian in the case of fascism and communism, and democratic in name only for democratic) regimes that can tailor their foreign policy and such to fit their needs. Though to do this, then the other three do need more flavor as well to make it interesting, particularly as regards fascism and communism not just being straight upgrades compared to democracy, and there should also be some requirements to choose a "syncretic ideology" (obviously that would be a stupid name) such as having a minimum amount of support for that ideology and expending political power. Randarkman fucked around with this message at 03:37 on Oct 31, 2018 |
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Oct 31, 2018 03:29
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"Store-Brand Authoritarianism", as opposed to the name-brand authoritarianisms of the fascists or communists.
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Oct 31, 2018 03:32
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I think Authoritarian is a good term for them.Funky Valentine posted:"Store-Brand Authoritarianism", as opposed to the name-brand authoritarianisms of the fascists or communists. There's a difference between authoritarians and totalitarians.
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Oct 31, 2018 03:36
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yeah the current non-aligned implementation kind of sucks for stuff like the imperial germany focus branch. their ideology is non-aligned so apart from focues they have the same diplomatic options as nepal.
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Oct 31, 2018 04:38
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Psychotic Weasel posted:I'm usually not too concerned about the peace conference (assuming the game ever reaches that point) it's more so having control of territory during a war gives you access to all the factories and resources that lie within. It also allows you to build/repair things as necessary instead of relying on the idiot AI to figure it out. Yeah ended up getting most of Germany in the peace deal, just would have been nice to use those factories while I needed them. I think I blundered the France "get all German cores" cheevo though, like I couldn't take everything Germany had, and what's left of Germany joined the allies...So do I have to fight the allies now??
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Oct 31, 2018 05:31
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Main Paineframe posted:you'd think the mod coming in and telling people to cool down would have cooled things down This is what confuses me too, MP. To everyone else, I am going to repeat myself that I am not as knowledgeable about history as you all are and the only thing I can really gather from this derail is that the argument gets heated. I will have to probate anyone joining in regardless of the actual historical context. I do not enjoy probating people at all and would prefer not to which is why I will often pop into a thread and just leave a brief request or reminder instead. Please try to keep on the topic of Hearts of Iron.
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Oct 31, 2018 09:27
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They really should rename the Neutrality ideology by just going back to the old Hearts of Iron 2 standard of "Paternal Autocrat"
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Oct 31, 2018 11:54
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There should be a mod that lets you have Amelia Earhart as POTUS. Imagine it, a zombie ace pilot madam president.
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Oct 31, 2018 14:03
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Frida Kalho as communist leader of Mex
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Oct 31, 2018 15:55
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Phi230 posted:Frida Kalho as communist leader of Mex It really is criminal that they've given it to Trotsky over her.
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Oct 31, 2018 16:01
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This week's diary, as a bag of tricks to celebrate Halloween I guess: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/hoi4-dev-diary-bag-of-tricks-2.1126217/ Covers some mechanical changes to the game that are meant to mostly impact democracies. Among them a change to expeditionary forces that will allow the AI to lend you more for specific tasks so you can coordinate better with them when working with multiple countries. Also a new vassal type that isn't being called a vassal so you can sleep better at night. This will allow democracies who can't normally puppet other countries do thinks like what actually happened to Germany and Japan when democracies puppeted them at the end of the war. Also a change to the UI that allows you to see where decisions will have an impact on the map and activate them then and there sp you don't have to keep switching back and forth. No new details on how fuel or the changes to the naval game this week. No teaser on what's coming next week either. The UK stem does continue today though, picking up where they left off last week.
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Oct 31, 2018 16:08
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I accidentally demolished the Panama canal the other day, I'd like a confirmation window for some decisions, like that one.
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Oct 31, 2018 16:10
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Man doing Pact of Rome really leads to some very trippy interactions. After having seen Pact of Rome form in a number of games (and growing incredibly strong in one of them) I decided to see what it's like. Highlights of my first two attempts in Ironman: 1. For whatever reason I justify against Czechoslovakia as soon as I can thinking that I'll pull in just Italy and claim the important bits by the virtue of them being cores. I rushed this and went into war with only 20 divisions. What of course happened is that Romania honours their guarantee, Italy calls Austria into the war and the three of us get stomped into oblivion by the two of them. Turns out I vastly over-estimated the power of Italy (insert Mussolini meme here). Game over. 2. Thinking I've learned my lesson I do a slower build-up and muster a 200k army before I start doing justifications. Instead of declaring on Czechoslovakia directly I justify on Yugoslavia (to avoid Romania's guarantee). In full naivety I also go for the 'demand transylvania' focus, a decision that as it turns out would ruin me. Romania doesn't back down from the claim and I realize that not going to war immediately requires taking dramatic stability and war support penalties. Wishing for the best I select Italy as my mediator. Romania rejects this too and then Italy forces me to declare war instantly. Not only does Czechoslovakia intervene, they both join the Axis and start WW2! Game over. Thinking back on it, the problem here is that I keep calling in Italy right? 
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Oct 31, 2018 23:10
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MiddleOne posted:Man doing Pact of Rome really leads to some very trippy interactions. After having seen Pact of Rome form in a number of games (and growing incredibly strong in one of them) I decided to see what it's like. Highlights of my first two attempts in Ironman: yeah the best way to get easy wars is to do them before WT goes up and to not join a faction. Countries at war with a faction will seek to join a faction, and if you're at war with a faction than everyone you declare on will join that faction as well
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Nov 1, 2018 00:07
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Randarkman posted:I always thought "Authoritarian" or maybe "Reactionary" would fit the bill for them. that would logically include francoist spain (which is fascist in HOI4) but not kemalist turkey (which is non-aligned). e: even "non-aligned" isn't very good if it include poland and hungary, which weren't in any sense non-aligned in 1936, let alone 1939 Cease to Hope fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Nov 1, 2018 |
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Nov 1, 2018 17:12
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Yeah, it's pretty weird to have Venezuela considered fascist, but not a bunch of definitely fascist European powers.
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Nov 1, 2018 18:32
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Wikipedia told me that Francoist Spain wasn't fascist.
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Nov 1, 2018 20:15
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I hate how so many of the qchievements basically work out to "Conquer the world as X". I just finished the Austria-Hungary achievement which took waaay too many tries to do. Beating the Axis, then Russia, then finally, finish with a loving horrific late game brawl with US-UK who incidentately have a loving ludicrous number of planes. I puppeted a Communist turned Fascist ComChina and then used their manpower to simultaneously invade the US on 3 fronts. Taking DC was the lamest and gayest affair, mainly because the US stacked a shitzillion number of Inf in there. Finally, I used SuperHeavies and slooooowly broke it open. By this point I had basically finished eating the US but 100% stability meant fuuuuuuuuck yooooooou
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Nov 1, 2018 22:11
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There's also the Revived Kaisserreich achievement which took a long time because I totally spaced out and forgot to take the Caribbean off the UK, which meant a loving thrilling invasion of Japan throigh Siberia and India simultaneously. Hooo boooy that sucked to play. Nothing says fun like fighting in Siberia 
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Nov 1, 2018 22:15
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Ever since i started puppeting, world domination has been a lot easier since I don't have to manage that many fronts, defensive wise. One time I waited way too long to invade the U.S despite being at war with them for years. Unfortunately, the AI spent all those years building thousands of tanks and more airplanes than I could count. Thats when I closed the game.
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Nov 1, 2018 22:27
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A tank for every soldier and 100 planes for every pilot. Talk about a boon for movies and museums after the war.
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Nov 2, 2018 01:44
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Cease to Hope posted:non-aligned is this weird potpourri of monarchies and fascists who didn't sign up with the axis and neutral liberal democracies Thats why I sorta kinda liked at least a part of HOI3's political system -instead of uncomfortably stuffing flavors of despotism and oligarchy under Non-Aligned, your various authoritarians had an actual label to fall under. That being said, putting everyone under that umbrella still works. HOI is a game fundamentally about bashing dudes, planes, tanks, and boats together in a sometimes comical reenactment of WW2, not a deeper discussion of how various nation states are hard to label and have a complex political system to outsiders.
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Nov 2, 2018 02:04
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the problem is just also attaching a government to it which... isn't necessarily wrong, but some dictators hated team nazi so are nonaligned, etc.
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Nov 2, 2018 05:22
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Gamerofthegame posted:which... isn't necessarily wrong, but some dictators hated team nazi so are nonaligned, etc.
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Nov 2, 2018 05:25
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Yeah the trouble is the usage of the term "nonaligned" is very ambiguous since it's not really a government type, it's a geopolitical stance. The others aren't technically government types (Although they do tend to have specific types of government associated with them) either, but they definitely do not indicate geopolitical stance, since not all fascist nations will necessarily end up in the Axis nor will all democracies end up in the Allies or communists in the Comintern. Hell plenty of "non-aligned" nations can in fact align themselves with one of the three major powers while continuing to be "non-aligned" somehow. It really would probably work better to just call it "other" or something. That would allow it to represent autocracies that aren't really communist or fascist (like say, the remaining monarchies), or "democracies" that aren't actually very democratic in practice. All the stuff that doesn't really fit with the big 3 political movements at the time. It would also allow them to properly identify fascist governments that were not axis aligned as being fascist rather than trying to force them into that non-aligned pigeonhole - they could probably just give those nations an AI behaviour that penalizes diplomatic requests from the Axis to cancel out the bonus that being co-aligned would give them. The main trouble with the usage of nonaligned is that it's not just a semantics thing, it has gameplay ramifications - the biggest being if you're trying to form your own faction, it's very hard to get people to join if you or they are nonaligned (unless you happen to already be at war and have a common enemy with a nation that's not in a faction); if you're democratic/communist/fascist, there's a bonus to getting co-aligned nations to accept your request, but nonaligned nations will generally NOT want to join factions, at least until they get attacked by someone. So by say, slotting all the non-Axis fascists in as nonaligned, it basically makes it so that if you're playing your own non-Axis aligned fascist nation (say by going down the fascist branch of a generic nation tree), none of those nations will want to join you even though they probably would in real life. The Cheshire Cat fucked around with this message at 06:41 on Nov 2, 2018 |
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Nov 2, 2018 06:30
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I just had Italy join the Axis, immediately jump into one of my wars and grab a third of Turkey. Didn't realize that the 'automatically join wars' clause applied to every individual member of a faction and not just faction-wide wars.
MiddleOne fucked around with this message at 16:52 on Nov 2, 2018 |
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Nov 2, 2018 16:49
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MiddleOne posted:I just had Italy join the Axis, immediately jump into one of my wars and grab a third of Turkey. Didn't realize that the 'automatically join wars' clause applied to every individual member of a faction and not just faction-wide wars. If any other faction member is in a war, they will constantly call the others into it, even puppets, I think. So when you invite someone, your allies will probably drag them into the war. The AI will only sometimes refuse to join under certain circumstances, like Yugoslavia will never join a war against Italy because it feels too threatened.
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Nov 2, 2018 18:53
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imo nonaligned works fine in the context of this game. countries with blue ideologies lean towards the allies, red towards the comintern, and brown towards the axis with grey countries being in an inbetween who would rather remain neutral. yeah its not precise and the rule is sometimes broken (spain) but for a ww2 game that plays out over 15 years its good enough
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Nov 2, 2018 21:36
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In theory, maybe, but in practice every time I turn a country communist and then ask to join the Coming right, I get turned down and end up having to join the Axis instead.
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Nov 2, 2018 22:02
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You’d think the color for fascism would be white, not brown.
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Nov 2, 2018 22:22
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SHISHKABOB posted:Wikipedia told me that Francoist Spain wasn't fascist. According to some interpretations this is correct. Which defines totalitarian facism as being defined by the aim of creating a new society centered around the leader and of continuous struggle as a means to strengthen the nation/race. Franco, though he co-operated closely with fascist groups, especially during the civil war, was really way too much of a traditional reactionary to really be a fascist in a complete sense according to that interpretation. He wasn't too different from a number of cold-war era regimes who really had few aims or ideology beyond being violently anti-communist and obsessed with maintaining the traditional structure of society. Cease to Hope posted:that would logically include francoist spain (which is fascist in HOI4) but not kemalist turkey (which is non-aligned). If you are talking reactionary, yes. That term would be too narrow. Authoritarian though could still mean mean a lot of things. I don't think there are any non-aligned democracies in HoI 4 for instance, they are basically all dictatorships or monarchies. Pvt.Scott posted:You’d think the color for fascism would be white, not brown. White is typically the color of monarchist and reactionary "ideology". Though I guess this is actually a joke. Also there were plenty of fascist movements in non-white countries in this era, in the Middle East and India for instance. Randarkman fucked around with this message at 23:07 on Nov 2, 2018 |
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Nov 2, 2018 22:43
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looking at the flag of nazi germany, fascism should obviously be red
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Nov 2, 2018 22:45
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Why should fascism be white? I don’t get it. Brown really is the most obvious choice.
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Nov 3, 2018 00:39
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BabyFur Denny posted:Why should fascism be white? I don’t get it. Brown really is the most obvious choice. Poop is brown, I guess.
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Nov 3, 2018 00:57
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Pvt.Scott posted:Poop is brown, I guess. If your poop is that kind of brown you better go see a doctor. Fascists are brown because they are. https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/Brownshirt
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Nov 3, 2018 01:33
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BabyFur Denny posted:If your poop is that kind of brown you better go see a doctor. Fascists are brown because they are. https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/Brownshirt Fascist political uniforms of the time also included Black(UK/Italy), Blue(Spain/Portugal/Ireland), and Green(Romania/Yugoslavia) shirt varieties along with I'm sure many others but those are just the ones I remember off the top of my head
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Nov 3, 2018 02:48
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It was just a dumb joke about white nationalism
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Nov 3, 2018 02:49
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After not having played this game in awhile I started a game as The Netherlands. Turned fascist and joined the Axis. Everything was going fine until WW2 started, then suddenly after a few months I got a popup that said Great Britain is taking all of their lands back and I lost all of my territory instantly except Suriname. I hadn't even fought a single battle. What the hell just happened?
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Nov 3, 2018 05:43
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What's the current consensus on division width? I usually like 20 because it seems about right, but I've seen posts saying 10 and others saying 40. It's all over the place.
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Nov 3, 2018 22:43
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iirc its 10 if you can actually afford to kit out that many divisions with support equipment otherwise 40
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Nov 3, 2018 22:49
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