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Probably even moreso with the new reformation mechanics, I wish that it were easier to reform the religion. I generally only see maybe one AI reform a religion per game, and it would be nice to see the AI not get gobbled up by Christianity or Islam by the mid game.
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Nov 6, 2018 23:08
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Torrannor posted:I don't think we can tell until Holy Fury comes out. In principle, I see no reason why it wouldn't stack. They do not. If you have access to both concubines & polygamy, polygamy wins out. Muslim tribals are an easy way to test. Torrannor posted:
I'm curious as to why you're down on Elder succession. It looks like another version of Tanistry, but with different voting preferences. Especially since a couple of religions start with it instead of gavelkind, I would think that would be extremely nice.
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Nov 6, 2018 23:10
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The religious tax thing seems REAL useful if your religion is bad at converting or if you're conquering a religion with much stronger MA/resistant to religion. I'm so ready for enatic in the game, the enatic mod I have is not my favorite. Can't wait for my very historically accurate realm of amazons. Galaga Galaxian posted:It'd be neat if you (or NPCs I guess) could use this new reformation system to create-your-own-heresy version of existing organized religions by swapping out one of the picks or whatever. I'm really hoping for a create your heresy/religion mod in the future, maybe with all the new stuff baked into the game it'll be easier to mod?
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Nov 6, 2018 23:27
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Hi question. Would enatic also enforce female commanders?
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Nov 6, 2018 23:33
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I would expect so. It would likely prevent male commanders, if it works like the council.
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Nov 6, 2018 23:41
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big dyke energy posted:I'm so ready for enatic in the game, the enatic mod I have is not my favorite. Can't wait for my very historically accurate realm of amazons.
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Nov 7, 2018 00:20
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Torrannor posted:big rear end post about pagan reformation Do note that some of the doctrines might actually offer lot more than it seems just from the description of its basic mechanic. For example last Dev Diary had this to say about Bloodthirsty Gods CK2 Dev posted:Rulers of this Doctrine can sacrifice captured infidels to gain Piety. Additionally, sacrificing enough people to the gods will result in your ruler unlocking special traits and actions. Much like a raiding Norse can eventually become a Viking and work his way to the Sea-King status, a devoted bloodthirsty ruler can attempt to become Haemophiliac and work his way to the title of Haemoarch. Becoming Haemophiliac will unlock the Blood Tournament decision, a feast event during which ruler and vassals can pick one of their prisoners or commanders to fight to the death, until only a champion survives. Becoming Haemophant will unlock the Mass Sacrifice decision, which allows a ruler to immolate part of his own population (gaining bad province modifiers) in order to temporarily increase the morale of his armies. Finally, an Haemoarch ruler gains access to the Flower War casus belli, allowing him to gain piety and cripple the target realm’s provinces upon victory. And if you want to go even beyond that, there might be a special Bloodline waiting for you... Which is a lot nicer than just "access to Great Blot".
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Nov 7, 2018 00:29
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Yeah, I read it as being able to right click on prisoners and sacrifice them through that menu, so it'd be a completely different mechanic than blots.
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Nov 7, 2018 00:55
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Maybe my next game will be a vassal takeover of the Aztec empire
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Nov 7, 2018 01:17
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cheesetriangles posted:Hi question. Would enatic also enforce female commanders? I'd expect any of the equality doctrines to also give you the equivalent of full equal rights laws (the same as what Cathars get). It'd be interesting if enatic clans went further and actually reversed the effects of equal rights laws - so that by default only women would be allowed in those positions and men would be allowed in any that would normally be unlocked by your current "Status of Women" law.
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Nov 7, 2018 01:55
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That'd be cool, but it feels like that'd be a really hard sell when it comes to conversion. 
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Nov 7, 2018 02:01
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that's what the amazonian death/re-education squads are for
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Nov 7, 2018 02:08
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I'm interested in the intrigue actions that these reformed/unreformed pagan religions can take. That's one of the biggest differences between religions, Christians get to feast and have spring fairs, Muslims get Ramadan and the Haj, Vikings get runestones and the blot, slavics get Jarilo, and Bon gets search for a guru and sky burial. Do attributes make you gain/lose access to any of those? It really doesn't affect much of the game, but it's always a weird thing when I'm at peace for a while killing time, and I can't blow 40 gold on a big party for a minor relations boost and 40 vassals to call me an rear end in a top hat when they decide not to go. It's flavor.
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Nov 7, 2018 02:21
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SlothfulCobra posted:I'm interested in the intrigue actions that these reformed/unreformed pagan religions can take. That's one of the biggest differences between religions, Christians get to feast and have spring fairs, Muslims get Ramadan and the Haj, Vikings get runestones and the blot, slavics get Jarilo, and Bon gets search for a guru and sky burial. Do attributes make you gain/lose access to any of those? That was one of the earliest mods I made, it would be nice if that was something opened to all religions at some point without requiring a mod.
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Nov 7, 2018 04:47
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binge crotching posted:I'm curious as to why you're down on Elder succession. It looks like another version of Tanistry, but with different voting preferences. Especially since a couple of religions start with it instead of gavelkind, I would think that would be extremely nice. I'm actually looking forward to play with eldership succession, it looks really neat. Starting with it over elective gavelkind is obviously a huge advantage, but you're likely nearly ready to adopt feudalism/become a merchant republic once you reform the faith, so having it a a reform pick is quite a bit less useful imho. And I think it might even be worth it in a feudal realm as well, it's not automatically inferior to primogeniture or ultimogeniture. But I'm super excited for the saints/ancestor worship mechanic. It combines a ton of cool flavor with what look to be pretty good gameplay benefits. Read the saints dev diary if you want to refresh your memory. So i should have called eldership succession the "lamer" part of Ancestor Worship. It's cool, but not as amazing (imho) as worshiping your ancestors. Which brings me to those unique doctrines. You get both eldership and pagan saints with the Ancestor Worship doctrine. Yet Defenders of Dievas takes away the coolest part of Ancestor Worship and replaces it with your religion being resistant to proselytizing. Which is pretty lame, at least in the current game. The new mass conversion events, plus the continued support of the religious sponsor for those who mass convert might make it more likely that AI rulers convert. I could imagine that resistance to proselytizing helps with that. But nobody can force your own character to convert, which makes the resistance only possibly worth it if there are more independent rulers of your reformed faith. And especially for Romuva, you will be the only independent reformed Romuva ruler 95% of the time, except if you conquer territory and grant them independence. And that's the best case scenario. If resistance to proselytizing doesn't help against Catholics and co. converting rulers of your faith, it's a really worthless effect. Which begs the question, why would you take Defenders of Dievas instead of Ancestor worship directly? You get much more out of that. And as I wrote, Totem-Guardians is much more reasonable. You still don't get the pagan saints mechanic, but you get the foreign religion tax and the "take the vows" intrigue decision. This might make it worth it to choose this doctrine over Ancestor Worship directly. So to sum it up, if I want eldership succession as Romuva I will definitely take Ancestor Worship as opposed to the lame Defenders of Dievas doctrine. If I want it as African pagans, I might just take Totem-Guardians. Lt. Lizard posted:Do note that some of the doctrines might actually offer lot more than it seems just from the description of its basic mechanic. For example last Dev Diary had this to say about Bloodthirsty Gods Volkerball posted:Yeah, I read it as being able to right click on prisoners and sacrifice them through that menu, so it'd be a completely different mechanic than blots. I can obviously only go by what's revealed so far. I should have reread the post about Bloodthirsty Gods, but it was already enough work to write this post going off the descriptions themselves that I didn't feel like doing even more research  And the fact that some doctrine combinations give unique effects may make some of them more useful than they appear so far, but we will have to wait for the DLC to drop to find out. Torrannor fucked around with this message at 06:24 on Nov 7, 2018 |
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Nov 7, 2018 06:21
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Torrannor posted:And as I wrote, Totem-Guardians is much more reasonable. You still don't get the pagan saints mechanic, but you get the foreign religion tax and the "take the vows" intrigue decision. This might make it worth it to choose this doctrine over Ancestor Worship directly. So, what is the "take the vows" pagan decision you've mentioned a couple of times, now? Is that essentially the pagan version of the Catholics' ability to force people to become a monk/nun, or? Also, there hasn't been anything mentioned by Paradox about the "coming of age/rite of passage" stuff the animism (or whatever it was) doctrine gives you, right? Since that and the ancestor worship ones are probably the ones I'm most interested in, for my next game.
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Nov 7, 2018 06:33
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Major Isoor posted:So, what is the "take the vows" pagan decision you've mentioned a couple of times, now? Is that essentially the pagan version of the Catholics' ability to force people to become a monk/nun, or? Yes, "take the vows" is forcing people to become monks/nuns, and this is the pagan equivalent. Which might be especially interesting with eldership succession, depending on who you can force to take the vows and thus disinherit. I can't recall any info from the dev diaries about the coming of age/rite of passage stuff. It might have come up in one of the streams, but I don't watch those.
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Nov 7, 2018 07:01
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Volkerball posted:Looks like the ideal way to do things would be to start off as a war mongering religion, then convert to a cosmopolitan, syncretic, and astrology focused religion later. I'm toying with the idea now of reforming a bunch of different pagan religions and making them peaceful and stable, and giving their religious heads a bunch of land as my vassals to keep them thriving. You may choose any of the state-sanctioned religions to worship. Tolerance! Unless they rework the culture conversion system you'll be stuck with the different culture malus forever, since counties don't change culture unless it's the same religion as its lieges.
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Nov 7, 2018 09:36
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Thinking about it more, the lack of any mention of concubinage is still weird even if you get it regardless, because that means it's a universal characteristic of any reformed faith that isn't outright polygamous. You can make Catholicism 2 with Hierocratic, Proselytizing, Monasticism, Ancestor Veneration (more or less, for saints), but you'll never be able to uncover the secret of monogamy. At least peaceful locks off raiding.
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Nov 7, 2018 11:08
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Now i want to reform Germanic with Autocephalous, Warmongering, Enatic Clans, Sons of Ragnarok
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Nov 7, 2018 12:24
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shame there can't be multiple reformations, that'd be rad. I know you can drop the holy site requirement numbers down in the defines.lua but presumably it's gonna be a one shot deal.
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Nov 7, 2018 12:32
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winterwerefox posted:Now i want to reform Germanic with Autocephalous, Warmongering, Enatic Clans, Sons of Ragnarok 
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Nov 7, 2018 13:24
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I hope if you pick Enatic clans and have Enatic succession the game is smart enough to basically inverse marriage so matrillineal marriage is the default for the AI.
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Nov 7, 2018 22:14
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https://twitter.com/ManyATrueNerd/status/1060272994545745920 If you've ever wanted to watch a livestream of someone doing everything wrong in CK2, now's your chance!
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Nov 7, 2018 22:53
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Good thing I already do most things wrong in CK2.
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Nov 8, 2018 00:29
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Sky Shadowing posted:I hope if you pick Enatic clans and have Enatic succession the game is smart enough to basically inverse marriage so matrillineal marriage is the default for the AI. Yeah I've never played with enatic modded in before so I'm not sure how well the AI handles it but it's typically not GREAT with matri-marriage intelligence in general so hopefully they've been tweaked to be smarter with it now that enatic is a thing in the base game. Also a thought just occurred to me - what happens if you reform the religion with enatic clans and then convert from tribal to a merchant republic? I'm pretty sure MRs are hard coded to be agnatic so would that just override the religious restriction?
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Nov 8, 2018 00:41
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The Cheshire Cat posted:Also a thought just occurred to me - what happens if you reform the religion with enatic clans and then convert from tribal to a merchant republic? I'm pretty sure MRs are hard coded to be agnatic so would that just override the religious restriction? When in doubt regarding merchant republics assume that anything and everything is hardcoded, which means an enatic merchant republic would either break with no heir, or force you into normal agnatic mechanics.
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Nov 8, 2018 01:23
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binge crotching posted:When in doubt regarding merchant republics assume that anything and everything is hardcoded, which means an enatic merchant republic would either break with no heir, or force you into normal agnatic mechanics. To be fair, they haven't specifically talked about MRs, but they have talked about redoing a bunch of formerly hardcoded stuff in scripting, haven't they? So they mighta fixed that.
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Nov 8, 2018 01:30
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How do you reform your religion in a way that turns you Iqta instead of Feudal? Not that I like Iqta's system of succession, but it seems fit to give tribals a way to take it up. Monastic feudal too, for that matter. You could make an interesting argument towards Zunism picking up either. These things have to be extra-durable for randomized worlds. Muslims seem like the odd man out this DLC. Their succession is just as clumsy as it ever was, despite the gavelkind and elective changes, but now there's reconquista events and some buffs for African pagans (although that will probably be a nice avenue for expansion).
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Nov 8, 2018 01:42
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BenRGamer posted:To be fair, they haven't specifically talked about MRs, but they have talked about redoing a bunch of formerly hardcoded stuff in scripting, haven't they? So they mighta fixed that. Yeah but I expect MRs are just going to stay that way forever. It's a fairly old DLC and even though they're still popular to play, not very much has actually been done with them since they originally got added. I think a lot of it is just that they're so hacked in that nobody wants to mess with them.
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Nov 8, 2018 01:44
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SlothfulCobra posted:How do you reform your religion in a way that turns you Iqta instead of Feudal? edit: Oh, I guess enatic clans also gives access to open succession. Strudel Man fucked around with this message at 02:28 on Nov 8, 2018 |
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Nov 8, 2018 02:25
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So after 627 hours in this game, I am finally thinking I will try Ironman mode before Honky Fury comes. Is there anything I should be aware of for this?
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Nov 8, 2018 02:28
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Omnicarus posted:So after 627 hours in this game, I am finally thinking I will try Ironman mode before Honky Fury comes. Is there anything I should be aware of for this? I mean, it is the Crusades update...
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Nov 8, 2018 02:38
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Omnicarus posted:So after 627 hours in this game, I am finally thinking I will try Ironman mode before Honky Fury comes. Is there anything I should be aware of for this? I've never not played ironman in this, you'll be fine. Congrats on taking off the training wheels.
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Nov 8, 2018 02:46
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Omnicarus posted:Honky Fury legit gonna add this to the nicknames list. thanks.
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Nov 8, 2018 03:00
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Strudel Man posted:Pretty sure I remember reading that taking agnatic clans gave you access to open succession. (Which is not Iqta in full, as it doesn't let you hold temples, but.) I think there's another doctrine you can pick up that does let you hold temples (temporal leadership?), so you'd probably take them in combination if you wanted an equivalent to Iqta government (they've already stated that there are special effects for having certain doctrinal combinations, so for some of them you might get a special government type).
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Nov 8, 2018 03:15
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I'd like to preemptively suggest that the final thread name be Crusader Kings II: No one can reign innocently in honor of the many, many crimes against humanity that have been posted since 2015.
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Nov 8, 2018 03:22
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Vengarr posted:I'd like to preemptively suggest that the final thread name be Crusader Kings II: No one can reign innocently in honor of the many, many crimes against humanity that have been posted since 2015. Crusader Kings II: Honky Fury
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Nov 8, 2018 03:29
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Azhais posted:https://twitter.com/ManyATrueNerd/status/1060272994545745920 Azhais posted:Crusader Kings II: Honky Fury Honky Fury in Expanded Africa
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Nov 8, 2018 03:33
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Azhais posted:Crusader Kings II: Honky Fury
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Nov 8, 2018 03:51
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