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Lightning Knight posted:Yeah I think his attempts to coerce loyalty from Department of Justice staff is demonstrable obstruction and should've led to impeachment proceedings if we lived in a normal country. The DoJ isn't special in that regard. He wants loyalty from everyone regardless of what they can do for him. Look at his press conference yesterday calling out the GOP incumbents who lost who didn't cuddle with him. Collusion/Obstruction are mens rea crimes. I think even generously at this point, that is hard to prove.
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Nov 8, 2018 16:50
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corn in the bible posted:
See one thing people tend to forget about elections is that candidate recruitment is actually often quite difficult, and is absolutely crucial. This election will have a ripple effect because next go around stronger candidates will see numbers like this and conclude that certain races previously thought to be out of reach of democrats may be winnable.
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Nov 8, 2018 16:50
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I love this picture. 
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Nov 8, 2018 16:50
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I personally feel that a very public trial where Trump's crimes are put on public display immediately before 40+ Republican Senators have to publicly vote in favor of him, before an election... I think that may have some intrinsic value.
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Nov 8, 2018 16:50
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Retro42 posted:At this point I'll settle for his companies being razed to the ground and his family name eternally disgraced. No way in hell impeachment will ever occur. Even if we did get 2/3rd's I have the utmost confidence in Schumer going all i hate that smiley and disagree with your assertion also these things TulliusCicero posted:...The dude fired the Director of the FBI for investigating things, then went on record in a live interview and told the world he fired the Director of the FBI for investigating things. Deteriorata posted:Of course Trump personally colluded. He's been laundering money for the Russian oligarchs for decades. He's up to his eyeballs in Russian money. He doesn't think it's collusion because for him it was just business as usual.
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Nov 8, 2018 16:51
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Kimsemus posted:The DoJ isn't special in that regard. He wants loyalty from everyone regardless of what they can do for him. Look at his press conference yesterday calling out the GOP incumbents who lost who didn't cuddle with him. It is special in that he is under active investigation by an extension of the Department of Justice and was clearly attempting to dissuade this process, up to and including firing the head of the FBI to accomplish that. Of course there will be no consequences for this, but he absolutely was obstructing.
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Nov 8, 2018 16:51
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Kimsemus posted:The DoJ isn't special in that regard. He wants loyalty from everyone regardless of what they can do for him. Look at his press conference yesterday calling out the GOP incumbents who lost who didn't cuddle with him. You're super dumb lol
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Nov 8, 2018 16:52
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Jarmak posted:Beto lost by 2.6% and based on current trends Texas will be bluer in 2020, there's only so much gerrymandering can do. I think that people are right though, Beto is a special case and you should look at the other statewide elections to see what's up. We couldn't even get rid of our AG, an actual criminal who will probably go to jail
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Nov 8, 2018 16:52
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Fuuuuuuuuck. I am so sick and tired of this poo poo being commonplace in this country.
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Nov 8, 2018 16:52
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https://hotspotatl.com/3737012/700-wrapped-voting-machines-found-in-a-georgia-warehouse/quote:700 Wrapped Voting Machines Found In A Georgia Warehouse o.o brian kemp you piece of poo poo
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Nov 8, 2018 16:52
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Google Butt posted:You're super dumb lol Yeah I'm dumb for thinking Trump will never be impeached. 
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Nov 8, 2018 16:52
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Doctor Butts posted:I can't even describe how much I hope Mueller's probe uncovers uncontrovertible proof of multiple big federal and state crimes by both the president and his cronies. Lol, this is like hitching your survival on winning the lottery.......
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Nov 8, 2018 16:53
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Kimsemus posted:I don't disagree. My personal belief, for what it's worth, is Trump is surrounded by bad actors, but I don't think he himself colluded/obstructed. I can go into detail on this, but it's nothing people haven't already heard. He may not have intentionally plotted but there's no way he's clean.
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Nov 8, 2018 16:53
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Kimsemus posted:Do you want Mueller to leak to affect an election against DoJ policy, or do you want him to produce a report people take seriously that makes charges stick? Use your noodle and play the long game. All trump has been doing is preparing for a "professional report". Gulianni's entire JOB is to prepare for a professional report, he literally said this, out loud, on live TV. There's a GIGANTIC disadvantage you run into when you're the only side playing by the rules, haven't you ever seen "Die Hard"? trump has been preparing for the FBI to cut the power this entire time, he's got their playbook and has defeated it before. Unfortunately I just can't think of a solution. People in my family are this trump style "lie directly to your face" type person and you JUST. CAN'T. WIN. "Why did you do this?" "I never did that." "I have proof you did." "No you don't." "Yes, I do." "No you don't." And eventually you just give the gently caress up. It's the same exact problem we've been having with Republicans for decades. It's literally how trump has lived his entire life. We aren't going to win this game against the master. And this is NOT a "nothing matters" post, it's a "the current system we're using and counting on will not work this time you guys for gently caress's sake" post. We need to think of something different because "THIS time we got him!" has been yelled about trump for 60+ years and you know how it always ends? "No, you don't." InsertPotPun fucked around with this message at 16:56 on Nov 8, 2018 |
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Nov 8, 2018 16:53
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Kimsemus posted:Yeah I'm dumb for thinking Trump will never be impeached. you could always toxx on it nobody tell him the difference between impeachment and conviction Tibalt posted:Impeachment is almost certain. what did i just say 
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Nov 8, 2018 16:54
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Yeah trump's really known for keeping his hands clean Well let me frame it this way: Is there/will there be enough of a case for him to be impeached? My belief is no. If I'm wrong then serves me right, but I just don't see it reaching that high. I truly believe he'd even let his son fall on his sword for him before he'd see impeachment.
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Nov 8, 2018 16:54
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Impeachment is almost certain. Removal from office is very unlikely at this point.
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Nov 8, 2018 16:54
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Kimsemus posted:Yeah I'm dumb for thinking Trump will never be impeached. No, you're dumb for thinking that it can't be proven that trump crash clearly obstructed justice
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Nov 8, 2018 16:55
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Arist posted:loving yikes at this rationale for voting for DeSantis over Gillum: Impressive how she said all of that without saying "uppity".
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Nov 8, 2018 16:55
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Google Butt posted:No, you're dumb for thinking that it can't be proven that trump crash clearly obstructed justice Not so dumb as you thinking it'll see him removed from office 
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Nov 8, 2018 16:56
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InsertPotPun posted:Yup. I see it now: Mueller releases a professional report which proves with serious citations that the president is corrupt and we never hear the phrase "witch hunt" again. You are aware that Trump has never had the full force of the FBI investigating him right? Like, it has mostly been civil litigation, not criminal investigation. His playbook isn't really that relevant here and for the record, Nixon tried that strategy. Didn't really work out so well for him.
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Nov 8, 2018 16:56
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Prester Jane posted:I imagine its quite nice to live in such a privileged bubble that you can trivially sacrifice other people's liberties and rights for potential gains- and when it doesn't pan out you just kind of shrugg your shoulders and go "that's how the cookie crumbles". there's not a sacrifice of "other people's liberties" because kavanaugh was getting confirmed. we got the end, manchin's seat is still in democratic hands. again: you can make a moral argument, and that's a strong argument. stupidly arguing about observable facts that requires you to make such stunningly stupid arguments as redefining "decisive vote" into meaning "any vote for something that passed" and claiming that winning a six year senate seat is meaningless if you do not also take the senate that year. and you know nothing about me or about what matters to me, so you can go gently caress yourself. it is because these things are very important that i consider it necessary to do what is necessary to get them reversed, however distasteful because getting them reversed is the most important thing, because of how loving important it is. go gently caress yourself, you stupid self-righteous piece of poo poo.
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Nov 8, 2018 16:57
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Kimsemus posted:Not so dumb as you thinking it'll see him removed from office drat, dude really doesn't know the difference between the house and senate. Wild.
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Nov 8, 2018 16:57
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InsertPotPun posted:
Unfortunately the only real answer to people like that is physical force, which in our society has to come through the legal system.
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Nov 8, 2018 16:57
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Kimsemus posted:Yeah I'm dumb for thinking Trump will never be impeached. No one really disagrees with that. You sound more like you don't think he actually is guilty or could be "impeached" in the court of public opinion.
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Nov 8, 2018 16:58
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Jarmak posted:Beto lost by 2.6% and based on current trends Texas will be bluer in 2020, there's only so much gerrymandering can do. Cruz is extremely unpopular in texas, even among republicans. Beto was campaigning like a madman in texas. Republicans in texas will probably still like trump more in 2020 than they like cruz and the dem nominee isn't going to be campaigning in texas every day like beto did
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Nov 8, 2018 16:58
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You will never convince a chud of anything
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Nov 8, 2018 16:58
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AlBorlantern Corps posted:No one really disagrees with that. You sound more like you don't think he actually is guilty or could be "impeached" in the court of public opinion. I'm salient on that point. I guess I just ignore things that don't matter in the end.
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Nov 8, 2018 16:58
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Kimsemus posted:Not so dumb as you thinking it'll see him removed from office Impeachment is not the same thing as removal from office and your lack of delineation between this is why people think you're a moron. Clinton was impeached.
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Nov 8, 2018 16:58
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Kimsemus posted:Well let me frame it this way: Is there/will there be enough of a case for him to be impeached? Trump could have been impeached off the Trump University fraud allegations alone. It's a political process.
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Nov 8, 2018 16:59
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StrangersInTheNight posted:https://hotspotatl.com/3737012/700-wrapped-voting-machines-found-in-a-georgia-warehouse/ The hosed up thing about these cheaters is that they can't even cheat well, so "Maybe the truth is in the middle" narratives now just have to just basically ignore that every hand, they're just pulling a bunch of cards out of their coat pocket and throwing away what they were dealt, obviously, in front of everyone.
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Nov 8, 2018 16:59
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Tibalt posted:Impeachment is almost certain. I do not believe that Democrats will move to impeach Trump unless they have evidence strongly enough that refusing to vote to convict will backfire on Republicans. If they have that evidence, I think they'll impeach even if they know that Republicans won't convict. But I think that their end game is to put all of this evidence into the public domain by 2020 and hope the American people make the right decision that time.
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Nov 8, 2018 17:00
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Trump could have been impeached off the Trump University fraud allegations alone. It's a political process. While I agree you *can* be impeached for a lot of things, being impeached, a la Clinton, and being removed from office, or convicted, are different. Impeachment is a legislative process. What I'm arguing, and ultimately trying to convey, poorly I suppose, is his impeachment doesn't matter because he will not be removed from office.
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Nov 8, 2018 17:00
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RuanGacho posted:Impeachment is not the same thing as removal from office and your lack of delineation between this is why people think you're a moron. As was Andrew Johnson (who only survived removal by one vote), and, as a reminder, not even Nixon was removed from office via impeachment, technically. He resigned before he could be.
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Nov 8, 2018 17:01
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Mrs. Dash posted:Cruz is extremely unpopular in texas, even among republicans. Beto was campaigning like a madman in texas. Republicans in texas will probably still like trump more in 2020 than they like cruz and the dem nominee isn't going to be campaigning in texas every day like beto did They should be though. The message Texans should take away from this isn't "Beto lost", it's that Texas is clearly turning purple and it's time to bring your A game.
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Nov 8, 2018 17:01
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StrangersInTheNight posted:https://hotspotatl.com/3737012/700-wrapped-voting-machines-found-in-a-georgia-warehouse/ I read somewhere else (forget where now) that those were wrapped up and in storage so that they could be investigated as potentially faulty machines that mis-record votes. So same result - longer poll lines, and same reason - voter disenfranchisement, but slightly different minutiae than it initially seems.
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Nov 8, 2018 17:01
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friendbot2000 posted:You are aware that Trump has never had the full force of the FBI investigating him right? Like, it has mostly been civil litigation, not criminal investigation. His playbook isn't really that relevant here and for the record, Nixon tried that strategy. Didn't really work out so well for him. And Nixon had more humanity than trump, it was possible to break him.
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Nov 8, 2018 17:01
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Kimsemus posted:The DoJ isn't special in that regard. He wants loyalty from everyone regardless of what they can do for him. Look at his press conference yesterday calling out the GOP incumbents who lost who didn't cuddle with him. Whether or not Trump obstructed justice depends mostly on the unsolved question of whether the President even CAN obstruct justice in a federal case, seeing as he is the ultimate law enforcement authority. If, legally speaking, he can, then he definitely did.
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Nov 8, 2018 17:02
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Prester Jane posted:I imagine its quite nice to live in such a privileged bubble that you can trivially sacrifice other people's liberties and rights for potential gains- and when it doesn't pan out you just kind of shrugg your shoulders and go "that's how the cookie crumbles". When his vote mattered and millions of people's healthcare was one the line, he voted the right way. When his vote didn't matter, on Kavanugh, who would have been confirmed regardless, he voted the wrong way. It's weird that you prefer the symbolic victories over the ones that materially affect people, while at the same time accusing those who prefer the material victories of living in a "privileged bubble."
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Nov 8, 2018 17:02
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evilweasel posted:I do not believe that Democrats will move to impeach Trump unless they have evidence strongly enough that refusing to vote to convict will backfire on Republicans. If they have that evidence, I think they'll impeach even if they know that Republicans won't convict. But I think that their end game is to put all of this evidence into the public domain by 2020 and hope the American people make the right decision that time. Agreed. I think it would actually be a mistake to impeach without the votes in the Senate to remove. That will be spun as political persecution and give Trump a stronger position. If the Republicans stonewall, it will be much more effective to make it a campaign issue in 2020 and vote him out. The objective is to get him out of office ASAP. Actions should be directed to that end, not making empty statements.
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Nov 8, 2018 17:03
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