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QuoProQuid posted:i fundamentally do not care about swalwell. my point was more on the absurdity of declaring “delenda est” against the man because of two sentences of canned rhetoric on his website instead of anything substantive in his voting record I like how you're both ignorant AND an rear end in a top hat about this topic.
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Nov 8, 2018 21:18
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Gripweed posted:lol Kamala Harris is running the same scam Avenatti did. What the hell lol
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Nov 8, 2018 21:21
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The Muppets On PCP posted:a few years back i lived in a city with a lamborghini dealership a few blocks down the street Then you didn't have access to it. What do you think the word means?
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Nov 8, 2018 21:38
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Internet Explorer posted:I like how you're both ignorant AND an rear end in a top hat about this topic. No, he's 100% right and it's hilarious.
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Nov 8, 2018 21:38
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Hellblazer187 posted:Then you didn't have access to it. What do you think the word means? Do you think people who have insurance right now, but would have to spend a third to half of their yearly take-home pay to cover the full deductible have access? Access means they don’t deny you. It doesn’t mean you always get in though. I can buy a Porsche if I have money, but I don’t. Democrats have been using “access” to describe that exact scenario around health care for years now man.
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Nov 8, 2018 21:42
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Hellblazer187 posted:Then you didn't have access to it. What do you think the word means? It doesn't mean anything. That's the whole point, you colossal dunderhead.
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Nov 8, 2018 21:43
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selec posted:Do you think people who have insurance right now, but would have to spend a third to half of their yearly take-home pay to cover the full deductible have access? You can technically say they have "access," but it would be one hell of a stretch to call it "accessible," if that helps you out of the semantics argument you've mired yourself in.
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Nov 8, 2018 21:43
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Hellblazer187 posted:Then you didn't have access to it. What do you think the word means? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrA7si44ifk&t=121s edit: added timestamp. Groovelord Neato fucked around with this message at 21:47 on Nov 8, 2018 |
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Nov 8, 2018 21:44
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QuoProQuid posted:i fundamentally do not care about swalwll. my point was more on the absurdity of declaring “delenda est” against the man because of two sentences of canned rhetoric on his website instead of anything substantive in his voting record A man in a desert has *access to* water. It's just a few hundred mile's walk away.
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Nov 8, 2018 21:45
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Bicyclops posted:You can technically say they have "access," but it would be one hell of a stretch to call it "accessible," if that helps you out of the semantics argument you've mired yourself in. It ain’t my mess. This weaselly framing has been the Dem choice in language when they don’t want to commit to just saying free health care or M4A. They might throw in an “affordable” in there, which is also meaningless, because “afford” isn’t a thing bad faith participants have any incentive to be realistic about what it means.
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Nov 8, 2018 21:45
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Guy who uses the word access while defending the ACA, and then signs on for M4A... totally just a republican-lite. Again I don't know or care about this particular guy, but taking that one word without all of the context surrounding it and his other votes/signatures is just hilarious.
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Nov 8, 2018 21:47
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watch what i linked man.
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Nov 8, 2018 21:48
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Groovelord Neato posted:watch what i linked man. Do you not see the difference between Ted Cruz using the word "access" and the same word being included in a campaign pitch about protecting the ACA and expanding medicare?
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Nov 8, 2018 21:52
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Hellblazer187 posted:Guy who uses the word access while defending the ACA, and then signs on for M4A... totally just a republican-lite. You do know that absolute credulity and a complete lack of pattern recognition aren't things that you're supposed to be proud of, right?
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Nov 8, 2018 21:52
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Hellblazer187 posted:Do you not see the difference between Ted Cruz using the word "access" and the same word being included in a campaign pitch about protecting the ACA and expanding medicare? a politician should probably be careful in what terminology he uses.
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Nov 8, 2018 21:53
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Cerebral Bore posted:You do know that absolute credulity and a complete lack of pattern recognition aren't things that you're supposed to be proud of, right? I recognize the pattern that all of your posts are bad. How's that?
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Nov 8, 2018 21:53
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It's pretty loving LOL how easily you can tell people who have been involved in the fight for M4A and people who have not. Here's a hint: Those of us putting in the work for M4A and interviewing candidates, attending town halls, etc. - when we hear "access to healthcare" we know exactly what that means because it's a dog whistle for a cop out on M4A. A candidate will say that in a room full of people to dodge tough questions on M4A and everyone not in the know just nods their heads and goes "this person is good on healthcare!" Do some loving research before you start making fun of people. Don't be a conservative. Don't be proud of being ignorant.
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Nov 8, 2018 21:54
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Hellblazer187 posted:I recognize the pattern that all of your posts are bad. How's that? In other words you're just very committed to being a complete sucker. Got it.
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Nov 8, 2018 21:55
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The GOP runs on "access" to healthcare so I guess they must be good and will give me healthcare right guys, they say "access" and everything!
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Nov 8, 2018 21:56
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OK, fine, you're the expert, is HR 676 good?
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Nov 8, 2018 21:57
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Hellblazer187 posted:Then you didn't have access to it. What do you think the word means? Typically it means that if you can pay for it, it's not against the law for you to buy it, and if you need that money for rent or food instead welp I guess you didn't want healthcare after all, system working as intended.
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Nov 8, 2018 21:58
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Hellblazer187 posted:OK, fine, you're the expert, is HR 676 good? Very good afaik, yes.
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Nov 8, 2018 22:00
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Hellblazer187 posted:OK, fine, you're the expert, is HR 676 good? It's a good bill. But cosponsoring it doesn't mean much because everyone attached knows they won't have to actually vote on it anytime soon, and you should be wary about candidates who talk about treating the national budget like a family household budget in one breath and declare support for universal single-payer healthcare in the next.
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Nov 8, 2018 22:04
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For a good example of this in action, compare the California legislature under Schwarzenegger and under unified Dem government. Ostentatiously passed single-payer eleventy hundred times when they could count on a nice safe Republican veto, can't be bothered to even hold a single hearing on it now that they have the power to pass whatever they want. Lesson: co-sponsoring a popular bill with no hope of passing does not mean that person wants it to pass or will even let it pass when it's up to them, and you need to look at a politician's whole career, history, statements, and other positions rather than making up your mind based on a single symbolic vote for the cameras.
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Nov 8, 2018 22:10
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Bernie Sanders..... welcome to neoliberalism.
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Nov 8, 2018 22:36
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Pinterest Mom posted:Bernie Sanders..... welcome to neoliberalism. my eyes almost rolled out of my head
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Nov 8, 2018 22:38
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Hellblazer187 posted:Guy who uses the word access while defending the ACA, and then signs on for M4A... totally just a republican-lite. He's signed on to a safe PR stunt, but his rhetoric clearly says what he wants is a means tested market based budget balanced solution. Healthcare should be a univeral right, not market based access to healthcare. If healthcare is a right, it follows that the national health infrastructure has to be expanded for everyone. If its health access as a right though, then as long as someone is willing to sell you a $200/month plan with a $10k deductible to a doctor fifty miles away youre technically covered. And politicians know this.
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Nov 8, 2018 22:38
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So, it's not enough to cosponsor M4A if you use the word access anywhere in your literature? Is that the idea?
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Nov 8, 2018 22:42
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Pinterest Mom posted:Bernie Sanders..... welcome to neoliberalism. "Health care must be recognized as a right" covers it though. Access is important, because a right you can't exercise isnt much of a right, but you have to guarantee the right to health care first. 'Health care is a right' is good, 'access to health care is a right' is bad.
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Nov 8, 2018 22:43
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Hellblazer187 posted:So, it's not enough to cosponsor M4A if you use the word access anywhere in your literature? Is that the idea? It seems like if you’re savvy enough to run for office it shouldn’t be hard to clearly and unequivocally state what you support and not accidentally use dogwhistles that are deployed in defense of poor people dying of treatable illnesses.
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Nov 8, 2018 22:44
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QuoProQuid posted:i fundamentally do not care about swalwell. my point was more on the absurdity of declaring “delenda est” against the man because of two sentences of canned rhetoric on his website instead of anything substantive in his voting record "Canned rhetoric" about "access to healthcare" is the problem. His position is meaningless dem-consultant drivel about "strengthening and improving" the ACA, which is usually a code phrase for "shore up private insurers with more federal subsidies" and "restore the individual mandate"--things that no voter has mentioned ever when discussing why healthcare is a pressing problem. The healthcare problems most often cited by voters are: cost of premiums, surprise medical bills, cost of prescription drugs, and not being able to use one's insurance because of massive out-of-pocket costs. When elected Dems are serious about tackling these problems, they come out forcefully in favor of M4A, as they should, because only a universal, tax-based healthcare system that regulates drug & provider costs will address and solve these problems.
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Nov 8, 2018 22:46
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Not a Step posted:"Health care must be recognized as a right" covers it though. Access is important, because a right you can't exercise isnt much of a right, but you have to guarantee the right to health care first. 'Health care is a right' is good, 'access to health care is a right' is bad. Swalwell's website says "All Americans should have the right to quality health care." I think it's fine to want to push politicians to take firm stands on not only policy positions, but on their bedrock beliefs that inform those positions, but the idea that anybody is deciding an obscure congressman nobody had heard of 5 minutes ago because he used the word "access" is bonkers. The campaign hasn't even started yet, the guy'll have 18 months to gently caress up if he's actually bad.
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Nov 8, 2018 22:46
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Hellblazer187 posted:So, it's not enough to cosponsor M4A if you use the word access anywhere in your literature? Is that the idea? Dude knows what hes saying. He believes the government should run a balanced budget and that the national debt should be a priority. If it ever looked likely M4A would pass he would be jumping on the 'but how will we pay for it' train and compromise away the universal aspects in favor of market based access in a repeat of the ACA. Pattern recognition is a key skill.
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Nov 8, 2018 22:46
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Hellblazer187 posted:So, it's not enough to cosponsor M4A Now you've got it!
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Nov 8, 2018 23:09
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Pinterest Mom posted:Swalwell's website says "All Americans should have the right to quality health care." quote:affordable healthcare […] paying for treatment […] Eventually, we should have a Medicare For All universal healthcare system.
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Nov 8, 2018 23:51
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why isnt kamala harris allowed to grift?
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Nov 8, 2018 23:52
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twodot posted:Yeah, let's check out this website: This is like saying you have a plan for the student debt crisis, then posting means tested tax credits for entrepreneurs on your website and hoping nobody actually reads it
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Nov 9, 2018 00:16
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Calibanibal posted:why isnt kamala harris allowed to grift? ACAB
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Nov 9, 2018 00:29
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Cerebral Bore posted:In other words you're just very committed to being a complete sucker. Got it. love me i'm a liberal
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Nov 9, 2018 00:52
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Honestly you don't even have to get to the M4A issue: anyone so uninformed about how national budgets and the economy work that they think the federal budget works just like a family doing their budget around the dinner table is just straight up not qualified to be President of the USA, sorry. It is weird that the "most qualified candidate ever", "show me the resume", "age is a blanket disqualifier" crowd is completely fine with mind-bogglingly disqualifying ignorance like "I can see a balanced budget from my house" in a presidential candidate. It's almost like the endless harping on resumes and ephemeral auras of competence and vague technocratic bonafides is just an insincere smokescreen for an ideologically neoliberal agenda...
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Nov 9, 2018 00:59
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