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Thinking about MSNBC reminded me that my mother loves Rachel Maddow and gets all her news from her lol
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Nov 10, 2018 20:07
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Space Gopher posted:Sorry; I should have been more explicit there. Better not try then, might not have the votes
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Nov 10, 2018 20:07
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Nov 10, 2018 20:07
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Brony Car posted:or Megyn Kelly. That crap would never happen at Fox News and become public knowledge to the degree that those fiascos did.  You gotta be kidding me with this thread title. Seriously, on earth this happened? KickerOfMice fucked around with this message at 20:11 on Nov 10, 2018 |
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Nov 10, 2018 20:08
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YOLOsubmarine posted:You know advocacy can be aspirational right? Like, you don’t require votes to advocate for anything? Advocate for good things, accept marginal improvements when they’re the best you can do, and remind everyone of who is standing in the way of the very good things you’re advocating for. Okay but you understand why politicians might think that undercutting their bill, which they're barely garnering sufficient support for as-is, is a bad strategy? It's not just a lack of imagination, sometimes it's an effective sales strategy to claim that the thing you're selling is good.
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Nov 10, 2018 20:08
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DeeplyConcerned posted:Doesn't sundowning actually happen around sundown... *checks time zones* I think sundowning really depends on how long the subject is up, but it typically happens at sundown because most people are raised to be active throughout the day. Big Baby Donny not getting his nappy-wappies in because he's campaigning, following election results, reacting negatively to said results, up awake due to worry, then having to get on a transatlantic flight and attend a major function in another time zone probably, given the way sleep deficits work, means he's having a sundowning episode from a week ago.
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Nov 10, 2018 20:09
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Space Gopher posted:Sorry; I should have been more explicit there. no i'm pretty sure bernie's which is the originator of "medicare for all", is the one definitive medicare for all. medicare plus ultra for everyone is definitely a thing, but it's more of an attempt to create ambiguity by the CAP and allow dems who refuse to support anything close to UHC to pretend they support UHC
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Nov 10, 2018 20:10
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Brony Car posted:Fox News is also run competently by evil people who don’t screw up often. NBC and MSNBC, on the other hand, are regularly screwing up. Just read about Matt Lauer, Ann Curry, or Megyn Kelly. That crap would never happen at Fox News and become public knowledge to the degree that those fiascos did. dude they had a systemic environment of sexual harassment that forced the resignation of their CEO, president, and most successful prime-time host
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Nov 10, 2018 20:10
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Is the thread title true? I dont see anything about it on the net E. Oh they hired her previously, they didnt rehire her lol
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Nov 10, 2018 20:10
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Fox settles and then you never hear about this stuff again. No tell-alls. No long pieces in US Magazine about how badly the channel is run. The conservative propoaganda machine rolls on.
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Nov 10, 2018 20:11
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Space Gopher posted:Sorry; I should have been more explicit there. so what? it'll be hard. it's still vital for the dems to try, both for their own sakes and for the country. like yeah we're a long way from having 60 socialists in the senate and control of all the government, and the dems are still heavily compromised. that doesn't change the policies the party should be fighting for or running on.
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Nov 10, 2018 20:11
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RasperFat posted:https://twitter.com/joyce_karam/status/1061327346362392576?s=21 yeah I can't shake the suspicion that it wasn't just him being a dumb baby but otoh we have no particular evidence and he is definitely a big dumb baby
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Nov 10, 2018 20:12
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CuddleCryptid posted:Is the thread title true? I dont see anything about it on the net yeah they fired her recently, but she was on the network for a good while after the trumpening
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Nov 10, 2018 20:12
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CuddleCryptid posted:Is the thread title true? I dont see anything about it on the net Yeah it's just an entirely appropriate snide dismissal of the idea that NBC should be taken seriously.
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Nov 10, 2018 20:12
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eke out posted:dude they had a systemic environment of sexual harassment that forced the resignation of their CEO, president, and most successful prime-time host And yet here they are. Back in business. Hannity replaced O’Reilly. Everyone’s doing their role. History erased. They know what they’re there to do and they do it.
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Nov 10, 2018 20:13
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Brony Car posted:Fox settles and then you never hear about this stuff again. No tell-alls. No long pieces in US Magazine about how badly the channel is run. The conservative propoaganda machine rolls on. Eh, true enough. But let's be honest, it could have been a blowout tell-all, and it would still somehow roll on. FOX is the unstoppable behemoth right now.
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Nov 10, 2018 20:13
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the UAW leadership are scabs https://twitter.com/ByronTau/status/1060950564605853697
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Nov 10, 2018 20:14
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Space Gopher posted:Right now "Medicare for All" is so ill-defined it means absolutely nothing - just like "universal healthcare" was very popular until the insurance industry and right-wing media spun up the propaganda machine to turn even the tiniest, most non-controversial bits of any actual proposal into "the government wants to kill you and your family." Remember how "maybe we should help pay for end-of-life counseling and hospice care" got turned into "death panels"? What are you arguing? I agree that fully formed legislation that fully formed legislation doesn't spring forth from the head of Zeus like a some Greek god. The first step is being willing to fight and proving to your base you are willing to fight. I do remember the insane right wing framing of the ACA while it was still being cooked. I also remember how Jake Tapper kept trying to dump M4A earlier this year repeatedly and only succeeded in making himself look like a giant water boy and doofus. I don't think we disagree that it is a hard but necessary fight and I agree with you that Democratic leadership isn't up for it either from their own financial interests or cowardice. I mean I don't view M4A as an end. I view it as a necessary incremental first step to fixing our completely broken health care system. It's the bare minimum.
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Nov 10, 2018 20:14
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Brony Car posted:And yet here they are. Back in business. Hannity replaced O’Reilly. Everyone’s doing their role. History erased. They know what they’re there to do and they do it. and.. NBC and MSNBC are gone? i don't really get your point, nothing's been erased at all, their core audience just doesn't give two shits about their bad behavior whereas NBC's does like the only thing being erased is fox's bad behavior when you pretend it never happened and it's run by competent evil people eke out fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Nov 10, 2018 |
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Nov 10, 2018 20:14
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https://twitter.com/pattymo/status/1061335619337621506
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Nov 10, 2018 20:14
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PerniciousKnid posted:Okay but you understand why politicians might think that undercutting their bill, which they're barely garnering sufficient support for as-is, is a bad strategy? It's not just a lack of imagination, sometimes it's an effective sales strategy to claim that the thing you're selling is good. If I can put this another way: Your job is to pass legislation, sometimes its not the most complete version of what you want to you pass the best version of what you can now in hopes of something better later. See: The Civil Rights Act and Anti-Trust laws
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Nov 10, 2018 20:15
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corn in the bible posted:Thinking about MSNBC reminded me that my mother loves Rachel Maddow and gets all her news from her lol same but she also listens to ezra kleins podcast 
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Nov 10, 2018 20:15
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Condiv posted:the UAW leadership are scabs Unions in America seem like they'd be ripe for the radicalization of membership, I've been loosely following the drama with the UPS union and how their leadership dicked them over, I wonder if DSA has any plans to try and get in on that.
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Nov 10, 2018 20:15
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AFancyQuestionMark posted:What about MSNBC or whatever? I don't know much about American news networks, but isn't that typically viewed as a mouthpiece for the liberal establishment? Warning: I am useless trash that has MSNBC on in the background. Chris Hayes and Maddow are about as left as you're going to get in the mainstream of American television news. Hayes is legit cool and good, has a piss tape hat, and does good journalism. Maddow does good work, I don't want to turn this into a Maddow good or bad argument, but I think generally she does more good than harm. I do think Hayes is better than her but whatever. Chris Matthews is a fossil from the glory days of Pennsylvania Democratic machine politics and is probably going to die of emphysema related hypoxia live on air. Laurence is just porn for liberals and I don't think anyone takes him seriously. The rest of their personalities are generally from the Republican/Financial establishment. Joe Scarborough was a republican member of the house of representatives who was elected in in the anti clinton wave of 1994. He never misses an opportunity to poo poo all over the Clintons. Their guests are generally republican strategists of one kind or another who don't have any influence right now. Then you get to like Stephanie Ruhl who worked at Goldman Sachs, and Velshi who's just kinda there to fill in any slot they need him to. The best person who's not Chris Hayes is Nicole Wallace, famous for trying to keep Sarah Palin in line and completely getting blackballed from the Republican Party. I know she's knee deep in republican bullshit but she can get anyone on that show and absolutely grills them. She gives no fucks at all, probably starts drinking at 4 PM every day, and I will fight for her. Ari Melber is a treasure. He's a nerdy jewish dude who loves rap music and low key gives more air time to POC than anyone else with a decent time slot. Joy Anne Reid is.....problematic. Their various contributors all over the place are generally Blue Dogs or out of favor republicans. Like yeah Steve Schmidt and Rick Wilson are funny but they have blood on their hands. Bill Kristol and David Frum should be in the Hague. So just based on personalities, it's not comparable to Fox News. In a sane world, MSNBC would be considered a centrist station with two firebreathing liberals on at 8 and 9. (wear the hat chris). The people on Fox news are just propagandists. There's no honest reporting coming out of them, with the exception of Shep not giving a gently caress every now and then. The biggest difference between MSNBC and Fox News is that the GOP actively coordinate their messaging with one another. Just yesterday (or the day before) Murdoch was seen walking into McConnell's office, for example. You saw this all the time when news would break late in the afternoon about something trump said or did. No politicians would comment on it, and Fox news wouldn't just ignore it. then the next day, they'd all be on the same page. the two work hand in hand. their talking points leak all the time. So in closing, the leftist-ism of MSNBC is vastly overstated compared to the frothing right wing tilt of fox news, and there's no one at the DNC meeting with the President of MSNBC to coordinate talking points. edit* chuck todd is trash FizFashizzle fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Nov 10, 2018 |
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Nov 10, 2018 20:18
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eke out posted:and.. NBC and MSNBC are gone? i don't really get your point, nothing's been erased at all, their core audience just doesn't give two shits about their bad behavior whereas NBC's does And then there's this. CHUDs don't really seem to give a gently caress about things that disagree with what they want to believe.
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Nov 10, 2018 20:19
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Mooseontheloose posted:If I can put this another way: the problem is when you start saying that the incomplete, broken version is the best you'll ever get. gonna drag out an old chestnut to illustrate my point https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSMGrKSUgj4
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Nov 10, 2018 20:19
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I must admit, calling mooseontheloose  was the wrong thing to say. Apologies.
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Nov 10, 2018 20:23
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I just talked to a relative in the midwest. I would consider him a good representative sample of an American non-voter (greater % than voters) who has no ideology and can be summarized as a South Park centrist. Anyway asked how he felt about events in the US, if to him things are deteriorating and spiraling out of control. He said nah. It just seems that way because of "communication technology where everyone gets too much news at once, and the media hypes everything" Phew. I was worried for a minute there until this Logic and Reason truth bomb dropped
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Nov 10, 2018 20:23
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Condiv posted:yeah It was pretty awesome how badly the screwed up with her. Her first big “serious journalism” set was an interview with Steve Bannon, in which she coddled the white supremacist. Shortly after that, she was SHOCKED that NBC actually does basic fact checking for the stories they run. She thought it was weird she had to actually research before being able to release a story. Kelly then proceeded to be a dislikable and incompetent host on whatever time slot or format they tried her on. Predictably, she kept saying stupid racist things often enough that she was actually netting negative viewers for the shows following her. NBC viewers are turned off by such open bigotry, so she got the axe. The entire fiasco was an excellent case study of right wing pundits being incapable of real journalism. Megan Kelly is one of the most “reasonable” right wing pundits, too. It should have really been a wake up call for the MSM to stop respecting Fox and even more unhinged outlets, but 
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Nov 10, 2018 20:24
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People keep saying sundowning but I don't know what that means. When I hear it I think of, you know, sundown towns
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Nov 10, 2018 20:24
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For those who asked "what happened to the caravan?" https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1061338470461915137
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Nov 10, 2018 20:25
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corn in the bible posted:People keep saying sundowning but I don't know what that means. When I hear it I think of, you know, sundown towns People with Alzheimer's or dementia tend to be markedly worse (more confused, angry, aggressive, etc) in the evening hours
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Nov 10, 2018 20:26
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KickerOfMice posted:I must admit, calling mooseontheloose I missed it and consider it and consider it even after I called you a troll over the summer.
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Nov 10, 2018 20:27
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corn in the bible posted:People keep saying sundowning but I don't know what that means. When I hear it I think of, you know, sundown towns Sundowning is a phenomenon with dementia patients where they start to lose their poo poo and become more irritable and disoriented as daylight wanes.
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Nov 10, 2018 20:27
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Iron Twinkie posted:What are you arguing? I agree that fully formed legislation that fully formed legislation doesn't spring forth from the head of Zeus like a some Greek god. The first step is being willing to fight and proving to your base you are willing to fight. I'm arguing three things: - Real, single-payer Medicare for All is an incredibly important policy goal. It will be difficult to achieve, but it's worth every scrap of difficulty. - There are a lot of people in power who have seen that it is a difficult fight, and decided to give up. They are wrong to do this. - Nevertheless, they're right that it will be incredibly difficult. The response shouldn't be, "no, you're wrong, it's super easy! all you need to do is try! look, even these vague polls say I'm right." Instead, we should acknowledge that it will be difficult, and that the Republicans are not going to come out, stand up and clap, and support M4A once it's a solidified policy. Despite that, the proper response is, "it's incredibly hard, and worth doing anyway". corn in the bible posted:People keep saying sundowning but I don't know what that means. When I hear it I think of, you know, sundown towns People with early-stage dementia or Alzheimers tend to show their worst symptoms when they get tired at the end of the day.
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Nov 10, 2018 20:27
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Mooseontheloose posted:I missed it and consider it and consider it even after I called you a troll over the summer. I WILL NEVER FORGET THAT 
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Nov 10, 2018 20:27
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corn in the bible posted:People keep saying sundowning but I don't know what that means. When I hear it I think of, you know, sundown towns People with various forms of dementia will have an increase of symptoms when the sun goes down. The exact causes are unknown, but it likely has something to do with melatonin production in the epithalamus, and typically low cortisol levels at night. You'll see patients that have a little bit of dementia during the day just degrade dramatically over a very short period of time. When you travel abroad, your internal clock is thrown off. For healthy people, this is why you have jet lag. For someone suffering from a degenerative brain disorder, you can have sundowners at any time. Many people think (with good reason) that Trump has...something. He tends to get a little loopy when he travels abroad as well.
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Nov 10, 2018 20:28
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corn in the bible posted:People keep saying sundowning but I don't know what that means. When I hear it I think of, you know, sundown towns It's a part of dementia where the effects get worse during the later hours of the day. Wikipedia posted:Sundowning, or sundown syndrome,[1] is a neurological phenomenon associated with increased confusion and restlessness in patients with delirium or some form of dementia. Most commonly associated with Alzheimer's disease, but also found in those with other forms of dementia, the term "sundowning" was coined due to the timing of the patient's confusion. For patients with sundowning syndrome, a multitude of behavioral problems begin to occur in the evening or while the sun is setting.[2][3][4] Sundowning seems to occur more frequently during the middle stages of Alzheimer's disease and mixed dementia. Patients are generally able to understand that this behavioral pattern is abnormal. Sundowning seems to subside with the progression of a patient's dementia.[2][3] Research shows that 20–45% of Alzheimer's patients will experience some sort of sundowning confusion.[2][5] edit: beaten multiple times
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Nov 10, 2018 20:28
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Florida Update: Bill Nelson's deficit is down to 12.5k votes before the hand recount, with some undefined number of overseas military ballots still to be counted. Close enough that if the undervote in Broward really does come down to machine error, he has a chance of taking it, which is probably why everyone on the right is so terrified.
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Nov 10, 2018 20:30
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The Overton Window on discussing changes to health care in the U.S. has changed drastically since the campaign for ACA. In large part, IMO, because of its passage and a great number of people having had healthcare who never did before for a while now. I would say various factors include: -successful passage of major (if incremental) change to the health care system showed that changes to the health care system are in fact possible. Prior to this it had been decades since anything had been done and the baseline position of a lot of Americans was still "greatest health care system in the world", not just among righties. -many people were in fact helped and got insurance, particularly through Medicaid expansion, that never were insured before. This has changed the political landscape on the issue. Now we even have red states breaking down and accepting the Medicaid expansion. You can certainly argue, reasonably, that Obama and the Democrats didn't go for nearly enough in the ACA campaign, at least in terms of advocacy, or as a more aggressive negotiating posture. But the political culture at the time was very different and the idea of ANY change to the lovely rear end US health care system was literally heresy. The passage of and existence of ACA has helped substantially change the support of Americans for more and better change. It is a battle won that has moved the front of the battle going forward. I would argue that the popularity of the idea of Medicare for all and other universal coverage solutions is far greater and part of open discussion as a result of the ACA. Now you can argue that this is all just because the ACA is such a miserable failure and people are hungry for more, and there is some argument to be made there, but I think a large part of the change is also because of the successes of the ACA in helping people.
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Nov 10, 2018 20:31
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