|
Senjuro posted:So what you guys are saying is that a show called House of Cards DIDN'T end with all the protagonist's lies, schemes and manipulations collapsing all around them? What a waste of 6 years of build up. i imagine that the original plan was what happened largely off-screen. frank realizes he is going to lose everything and be exposed. with nothing left to lose, he goes to the white house intent on killing claire with the help of doug who he has machinated there ~~somehow~~. the two confront one another but, instead of helping his boss, doug realizes he and claire are on the same side. the two turn on their former ally and the show ends with frank bleeding out on the carpet. instead the finale turns doug into a weird proxy frank precision posted:I think what makes the first 2 seasons great is that they're fairly universal in theme, deliberately evoking a kind of modern Shakespeare. Then the show just kept adding more and more actual specific politics, culminating in the actual band Pussy Riot telling an obvious Putin analogue to piss off. That was a time the specificity worked, but then you had things like Frank's Civil War Adventure which were just lol this might be "medical student trying to enjoy a medical drama" effect but house of cards' politics never made any sense whatsoever. the first two seasons barely functioned if you don't think about it too hard but by the time the show is going full steam into "america works," "let's solve the israel-palestine dispute," and "american civil war ii, electric bungaloo," it was pretty clear that the show had no idea what it was talking about. worse, the characters never really had any ideology and were possessed by a kind of adolescent desire for power for power's sake. i guess that could have been an interesting message were it not for the fact that the show were desperate to portray how cool frank and claire were for their insane plotting. QuoProQuid fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Nov 4, 2018 |
#
?
Nov 4, 2018 19:29
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 23:47 |
|
|
Weaponized Autism posted:I loved it when Claire introduced the all-female cabinet. Not too many good moments this season. The writing was so bad, and the fourth wall breaks were not as good as when Frank did them. The finale was underwhelming. Glad the show is over at this point. But because they did that, they were afraid to collapse her in place of Frank. You can't have her spreading political 'Positive Messages (TM)' then destroy her. The whole thing was a clusterfuck of an apology for Spacey. QuoProQuid posted:"america works," This was the death of the show. The guy who was smart enough to take over the presidency without a single vote couldn't pass a job bill. So loving bad. A truly evil, smart president could have been handled in so many ways but after season 3 he was a buffoon. The worst parts of Trump + genius IQ + murder streak + a con genius on par with Saul Goodman with a desire for permanent power could have been so loving good. Instead we got a frustrated impotent rear end in a top hat who got bitch slapped by not-Putin and is constantly on the run for pushing a woman in front of a train. Like I gave up on this show before the Spacey thing ever came to light. Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Nov 4, 2018 |
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2018 19:29
|
|
|
QuoProQuid posted:this might be "medical student trying to enjoy a medical drama" effect but house of cards' politics never made any sense whatsoever. the first two seasons barely functioned if you don't think about it too hard but by the time the show is going full steam into "america works," "let's solve the israel-palestine dispute," and "american civil war ii, electric bungaloo," it was pretty clear that the show had no idea what it was talking about. You don't even have to have a job in politics. Just a passing understanding of politics is enough to blow wide holes in most of the political parts. Edit: My god, I keep going back to that boardroom scene. It's gotta be the nadir of the show. I've brought in a data analyst to join our conspiracy to assassinate the president so she can estimate how much the GDP will lose if we do it. Criminal loving masterminds!
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2018 19:33
|
|
|
er, DUH they obviously signed an NDA.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2018 19:46
|
|
|
Blazing Ownager posted:This was the death of the show. The guy who was smart enough to take over the presidency without a single vote couldn't pass a job bill. So loving bad. there's probably a self-aware version of the show where this is the point: frank is a void of a person incapable of producing things of value. his machinations bring him political support without leaving anything substantive behind. like many authoritarians, he has deceived himself into believing he is deeper than he actually is and his deep clutch on power prevents people with actual skills and beliefs from doing their jobs. instead, the show was so enamored by frank's plotting and how ~~cool~~ it was that it never felt the desire to explore the implications of what his leadership would look like to the public, the federal bureaucracy, or other politicians. nor could the show follow through on any criticisms of the lead couple more meaningful than "murder bad." any time frank suffers a setback, it is always mitigated by some impressive or daring scheme that lets him re-establish his position without any consequences. QuoProQuid fucked around with this message at 20:11 on Nov 4, 2018 |
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2018 20:06
|
|
|
Season 1 FU was basically Huey Long aka Willie Stark
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2018 02:11
|
|
|
it was poo poo
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2018 04:11
|
|
|
Thread title missed a golden opportunity to be 'It's her turn'.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2018 04:26
|
|
|
The whole show really suffered from its own success. They obviously had 3ish seasons of material adapting from the original British show. The show performed so well though that they kept lengthening it for that sweet dosh. They also got so high on all the critical acclaim they were getting during the first season or two that they believed they didn't need to follow the outline of the original, and could use their own "superior" writing talents to stretch the show out as long as possible. Its why the narrative focus of the show falls apart somewhere during the 3rd season which very obviously was originally supposed to be about his fall/comeuppance/death and the show awkwardly shifts to meandering crises of the week and shock value storytelling. The third season really feels like what remains of the original plot outline was awkwardly stitched together with a new open ended plot late in the game so they could transition the plot over from the original outline to the garbage of the latter seasons. On a similar not I think this was what happened with Doug's "death" where I'd bet he was supposed to remain dead in the woods but was resurrected to drag out the plot once they realized they were going to be getting renewed for a while.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2018 10:05
|
|
|
I'm trying to watch this, trainwreck style, but the audio is so bad I've had to turn on subtitles. To whoever complained about the ADR, you're so completely right- simply confirming as a professional. Claire's 7/4 speech to the troops, right? SO BAD.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2018 10:35
|
|
|
I meant mostly in the sense it's clearly not matched in some scenes, but you're right it's all bad all the way through. The early scene where she's talking to a reporter on Air Force One sounds like one of those listening tests where you have to pick out the voice from white noise.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2018 14:59
|
|
|
galagazombie posted:The whole show really suffered from its own success. They obviously had 3ish seasons of material adapting from the original British show. The show performed so well though that they kept lengthening it for that sweet dosh. They also got so high on all the critical acclaim they were getting during the first season or two that they believed they didn't need to follow the outline of the original, and could use their own "superior" writing talents to stretch the show out as long as possible. Its why the narrative focus of the show falls apart somewhere during the 3rd season which very obviously was originally supposed to be about his fall/comeuppance/death and the show awkwardly shifts to meandering crises of the week and shock value storytelling. The third season really feels like what remains of the original plot outline was awkwardly stitched together with a new open ended plot late in the game so they could transition the plot over from the original outline to the garbage of the latter seasons. On a similar not I think this was what happened with Doug's "death" where I'd bet he was supposed to remain dead in the woods but was resurrected to drag out the plot once they realized they were going to be getting renewed for a while. This is super true. I remember being confused when I found out season 3 wasn't going to be the last season, and then no surprise there was a huge dip in quality because it wasn't.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2018 17:30
|
|
|
This is one of the worst things I've seen. Kevin Spacey was good enough alone to carry a crappy show but without him it doesn't work. They should have made the final season about the president sexually assaulting 15 young men and teenage boys. Keven Spacey would have the final chance to play himself as he's brought down as a pedophile and lead away in cuffs. He should have been allowed to do the show if he followed that script. DropsySufferer fucked around with this message at 02:02 on Nov 6, 2018 |
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2018 01:59
|
|
|
QuoProQuid posted:there's probably a self-aware version of the show where this is the point: frank is a void of a person incapable of producing things of value. his machinations bring him political support without leaving anything substantive behind. like many authoritarians, he has deceived himself into believing he is deeper than he actually is and his deep clutch on power prevents people with actual skills and beliefs from doing their jobs. That could have worked, but I never got the feeling they were going for that. The end of season 2 was so chilling because he seemed to have a driven agenda, and I never once guessed that agenda would be 'floundering job bill.' QuoProQuid posted:instead, the show was so enamored by frank's plotting and how ~~cool~~ it was that it never felt the desire to explore the implications of what his leadership would look like to the public, the federal bureaucracy, or other politicians. nor could the show follow through on any criticisms of the lead couple more meaningful than "murder bad." any time frank suffers a setback, it is always mitigated by some impressive or daring scheme that lets him re-establish his position without any consequences. One thing House of Cards later seasons did for me is appreciate even more how well written Better Call Saul is. It nails both ends of the spectrum, showing the cons as smart and cool but also reminding us they lead to his downfall. House of Cards season 3 is like Better Call Saul where if after getting his law license back, he immediately proceeded to flounder for 8 episodes failing to get a guy who shop lifted underwear from a k-mart off.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2018 02:19
|
|
|
Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:I really do like seeing Greg Kinnear get work though. That was the best part. V much enjoyed that this season has just been Greg Kinnear fading away
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2018 02:43
|
|
|
precision posted:Season 1 FU was basically Huey Long aka Willie Stark I kind of disagree, but totally agree in the context of when he actually has to go to his voters and start winning them over - then he totally goes into the lovably honorable public figure who storm arms his competition behind closed doors. America Works is also a lot like Huey Long, who used the poor to vault himself higher and higher in politics while not genuinely doing it out of care but for power (debatable for Huey). However unlike Frank Underwood, Huey Long accomplished a lot of good fr Louisiana while also unlike Frank being better at taking bullets and never became a tyrant. Interestingly enough, now that you've brought up Huey Long, House of Card's introduces a sort of take on the American Tyrant amid the era of 24/7 news and the scandal cycle - and while it doesn't do things well, this alt reality where every conspiracy about the Clintons is true presents the most apolitical show about politics I can think of. Sinclair Lewis's It Can't Happen Here and Robert Penn Warren's All the King's Men are good pieces of American Tyrant fiction, and have cool comparisons/differences to House of Cards. Willie Stark comes to embrace various forms of corruption and builds an enormous political machine based on patronage and intimidation, having started as an idealistic lawyer. Frank Underwood however seems to have never been idealistic, and if he was is never shown on screen. The only thing other than power that Frank Underwood seems to care about is his legacy, being remembered as someone great but unable to have the vision to actually aim for something great. Frank and Huey both did like BBQ though and had black friend. QuoProQuid posted:there's probably a self-aware version of the show where this is the point: frank is a void of a person incapable of producing things of value. his machinations bring him political support without leaving anything substantive behind. like many authoritarians, he has deceived himself into believing he is deeper than he actually is and his deep clutch on power prevents people with actual skills and beliefs from doing their jobs. One thing that Frank Underwood has always been bad at looking back through the seasons, is on debates he has not set up traps to easily win. The first major one is the education debate when he demands an apology for his wife, having no real response for Marty Spinella who counters his demand for an apology to his wife with an awesome counter jab that catches Frank off guard. Frank had no idea where to go when the false flag brick ploy wasn't enough, and he crumbles until later making things work again with cheap political ploys and blackmail. He only pulls off the next debate by having Jackie Sharp torpedo herself while hurting Heather Dunbar. I'm actually surprised we never got to see Heather Dunbar come back at the end, because she was pretty drat vindicated by all those things about President Underwood turning out to be true. Heather Dunbar is sad because shes one of the only characters on the show who I can remember giving a drat about integrity or anything before asking Doug for the abortion journal, sinking to the Underwoods' level in desperation to be competitive with them. Still one of my favorite quotes: "Is this how you live with yourself? By rationalizing the obscene into the palatable?" He also has the gun control bill after being shot, but he only does that to destroy Dean Austin as a VP candidate. Pretty cold for a guy whose best friend Meechum was just killed and who himself was just shot, even Ronald Reagan eventually endorsed a gun control bill. It took until ten years after the fact, but James Brady being disabled but alive long enough for Reagan to build up guilt probably helped more than Meechum's hand tracing on the wall. (Frank's lesson learned from Meechum's death when his hand print is painted over is not that his friend mattered, but a fear in Frank at just how easy leaving a mark in the white house can be forgotten if not powerful enough.) His war on ICO, which we could compare to Bush's War on Terror which at least to me seemed to stem from good intentions, is purely to stay in power. The actually good ending line to a plot that's basically dropped, "We don't submit to terror. We make the terror." is a pretty good perversion of how things should be - Frank lets Americans die so fear can keep him as President, instead of using his time as President to protect Americans from fear. Trying to use a Declaration of War to stay in power is maybe Frank's ultimate act of deforming the office, second only to rigging the vote. America Works is just Frank trying to make a legacy as large and as lasting as the New Deal, but in plagiarizing the Works Progress Administration he cannibalizes it's legacy. He consumes it by slashing Social Security and welfare, even going for the unrelated Disaster Relief Fund's 3 billion dollars to produce like 40,000 before having to gut it. The WPA's initial appropriation in 1935 was for $4.9 billion and between 1935 and 1943, when the agency was disbanded, the WPA employed 8.5 million people which if doing the math means FDR accomplished way more with his unconstitutional power brokering than Frank did over 5 seasons.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2018 08:07
|
|
|
How did that Mark guy become VP? Shouldn't who ever the Speaker of the House is be in that position or am I thinking about this more than the writers did?
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2018 20:21
|
|
|
Your Gay Uncle posted:How did that Mark guy become VP? Shouldn't who ever the Speaker of the House is be in that position or am I thinking about this more than the writers did? No. The President appoints the Vice President in event of a vacancy. If both the presidency and vice presidency are vacant, the the Speaker becomes president (provided she is eligible and wants the position).
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2018 20:33
|
|
|
What the gently caress was that ending? Also can someone explain the whole nuclear bomb and russia poo poo and what happened to the siblings who were clearly banging i might just be being thick, but I feel like I've followed nothing
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2018 23:21
|
|
|
Looke posted:What the gently caress was that ending? I'm curious about this train wreck but will never watch it, so someone spoil away.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2018 07:55
|
|
|
God this season really fell off quick. Of course I watched all the way to the end because I had become extremely invested in this show, but that was kind of a poo poo last season. It seems like once you get past four seasons in a drama it's hard to keep things neat and it starts to become a clusterfuck. It could have been better if Kevin Spacey being a sex creep hadn't derailed everything, I think, but at least the show is over now and wrapped up as best as it could be, given the circumstances. So... Is the original British House of Cards good? That might be next for me.
|
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2018 08:58
|
|
|
The first season is very good. The next 2 aren't quite as good though the second season having him go up against the King of England as a rival makes it pretty interesting. The third season suffered a bit by making his motivations feel off from how he was characterized in the first couple seasons - I guess in that sense, Frank Underwood suddenly becoming a vastly different person post-season 2 is just following form. The absolute best part of it, largely absent after the first couple seasons of the American version, is watching him expertly manipulate other politicians into doing what he wants while making it seem like it was their idea all along.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2018 09:17
|
|
|
At the time of the third season ending or when Frank becomes President I really wanted the show to go nuts with his plans to become president for life. I was expecting him to start some fake wars using fake terror attacks and then declare martial law and such but the show just falls at that point and Frank becomes an idiot. It makes sense though that the British show ended after 3 seasons now.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2018 11:46
|
|
|
The show just ends, lmao. At least the Sopranos had a thematic cut to black, this show just runs out of ideas (and footage) and rolls credits. Kernel Monsoon fucked around with this message at 14:30 on Nov 7, 2018 |
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2018 14:19
|
|
|
Thematically, I'm actually pretty happy with the ending being Claire putting down Frank's "dog", Doug.. Oh, the loose ends, though ... Pretty ridiculous. Especially assassinating Cathy Durant, as if that would fix anything with her having a taped full confession out in the wild. Surely the people that engineered her fake death kept copies? Once again, everything works out magically for the Underwoods.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2018 17:08
|
|
|
British HoC depends on Francis Urquhart outwitting other smart people. American HoC depends on the Underwoods falling rear end backwards into luck and only having to deal with people less intelligent than them.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2018 19:28
|
|
|
werdnam posted:Oh, the loose ends, though ... Pretty ridiculous. Especially assassinating Cathy Durant, as if that would fix anything with her having a taped full confession out in the wild. Surely the people that engineered her fake death kept copies? Once again, everything works out magically for the Underwoods. They kept doing this thing this season where once Claire acted decisively, the matter just ended. So she doesn't need to have a big fight with the Senate for her Cabinet. She can just order the Justice Department to arrest Greg Kinnear and that kinda neuters him for the rest of the show, like he wouldn't have lawyers to put up a fight. The guy with the football who came to poison her she just gets taken away. Her just getting a list of names of who was in on the conspiracy to assassinate her is enough to put them all away forever, no need for any resolution other than that apparently! The president just knifes someone in the Oval Office, and I guess we're supposed to assume that's getting swept under the rug somehow.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2018 19:42
|
|
|
PostNouveau posted:They kept doing this thing this season where once Claire acted decisively, the matter just ended. So she doesn't need to have a big fight with the Senate for her Cabinet. She can just order the Justice Department to arrest Greg Kinnear and that kinda neuters him for the rest of the show, like he wouldn't have lawyers to put up a fight. The guy with the football who came to poison her she just gets taken away. Her just getting a list of names of who was in on the conspiracy to assassinate her is enough to put them all away forever, no need for any resolution other than that apparently! The president just knifes someone in the Oval Office, and I guess we're supposed to assume that's getting swept under the rug somehow. In addition to Spacey's departure making them rewrite on the fly and come up with a new premise for the season out of nowhere, I think once they started marketing her as an empowered feminist hero to try to escape Kevin Spacey's taint they probably felt pressure to write her as being more effective than Francis and not have her just fall on her face or get left holding the bag for their shared crimes.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2018 21:35
|
|
|
I’ve been interested in the British HoC but I worry I won’t understand the politics. I don’t know the details of how the UK government works compared to the US. Is the British version a worthwhile show to watch after the US HoC disaster? If I watch it I want something smart and with a different feel I don’t want to know what to expect.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2018 09:41
|
|
|
DropsySufferer posted:I’ve been interested in the British HoC but I worry I won’t understand the politics. I don’t know the details of how the UK government works compared to the US. It's a completely different feel and the politics aren't so different that you can't see the intrigue at play. I think the way to watch American HoC is everything after Frank's S2 finale double knuckle tap is Doug's coma fantasy
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2018 09:55
|
|
|
Also, even though it was written for an audience that would (or should) understand how the British political system works, they generally frame it in a way where you get given all the information you need to understand a scene. It's especially helped by Urquhart's frequent asides to the viewer about what his plans are/what is going on now.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2018 13:19
|
|
|
Just started E2 and will read back through the other posts later. How the gently caress is Mark Usher Vice President? That's stupid even for this show. That's literally not how this works at all. E- I'm waiting for the wonder twins to gently caress. E2- Cathy Durant faking her death and the screaming Claire photo at the start of episode 5 have been the highlights of this so far. CBJSprague24 fucked around with this message at 04:07 on Nov 9, 2018 |
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2018 01:24
|
|
|
This is the worst season of a show that was once good that I've ever seen. Like as bad as Dexter got at the end, it was still semi-entertaining. Not only were the stories incomprehensible and left open, but it was just boring. I still think the show started a slow downhill trajectory the minute Frank pushed Zoe in front of a train. They had this great concept to show the underbelly of the political world and then decided to just make the Underwoods a bunch of mastermind serial killers despite being utterly unlikable. Out of all the ridiculous dumb poo poo in this season, the Vice President pulling up in a van on a public street with a dead body in the back that he's been storing somewhere and showing Claire while no one in the secret service seems to care. Couldn't he have accomplished this with a picture?
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2018 23:50
|
|
|
Niwrad posted:I still think the show started a slow downhill trajectory the minute Frank pushed Zoe in front of a train. One of the major differences between the UK and US versions is that while the killing is a pivotal moment for the main characters: it haunts Francis Urquhart (politically and mentally) as he continues on his horrible path to the top but Frank Underwood largely seems to be completely unfazed by it even on the few occasions where somebody starts sniffing around the truth. It was a shocking moment and it could have been used to great effect, but there didn't seem to be any unifying theme between seasons so nothing - especially characterization - seemed to feel consistent and Zoe's death ended up having no impact.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2018 23:56
|
|
|
Nothing will ever be as bad as Dexter got in the end
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2018 23:57
|
|
|
PostNouveau posted:Nothing will ever be as bad as
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2018 02:46
|
|
|
I started watching UK House of Cards and I want to say that anyone thinking about watching S6 who hasn't already started should just switch to BBC Cards, thanks
|
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2018 09:28
|
|
|
Niwrad posted:I still think the show started a slow downhill trajectory the minute Frank pushed Zoe in front of a train. They had this great concept to show the underbelly of the political world and then decided to just make the Underwoods a bunch of mastermind serial killers despite being utterly unlikable. Yeah my roommate introduced me to this show, and that moment was the exact one that made me throw up my hands and say "gently caress it, I'm out." From the sound of it, I didn't miss too much afterwards. Season 1 was fun and good at least!
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2018 16:32
|
|
|
Ending was garbage. I keep thinking about what I want to say about the season but... eh. Oh here's something that hasn't been discussed Kathy Durant straight up stared at the camera in her last scene in the hotel right? So can just everyone break the 4th wall now? WTF is this poo poo. Oh and what happened with the bird at the beginning of the first episode? Between the bird and the ring and the way her 4th wall asides were so stilted, I really thought they were going for 'Clair is legit crazy now' but the ring was real. So was the bird real too? Are there just sparrows and poo poo hanging out inside the walls of the white house now?
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2018 22:00
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 23:47 |
|
|
I've powered all the way through to the season finale in 3 days. Psychotic Claire Underwood is comically bad and I'm tired of the Illuminati Twins. If half this cast doesn't wind up either hit by or dragged down the street by city buses, I'll be disappointed. Was it ever said what Greg Kinnear's illness was? E- And I never thought I'd say this, but Claire has made me tired of hearing about feminism/equal gender rights (though only in the context of the series, not IRL). I'm waiting for her to replace the Star-Spangled Banner with I Am Woman in the HoC universe in the next 45 minutes. CBJSprague24 fucked around with this message at 04:29 on Nov 11, 2018 |
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2018 04:14
|
|