OSHA: definitely bent in the straight places

The Something Awful Forums > Main > General Bullshit > OSHA: definitely bent in the straight places

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

Blorange posted:

Is there ever, under any circumstances, a valid reason to set an autopilot course for under 1000 ft? It seems like something that should never be possible.

The lowest airfield in the world is at -1240 feet. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar_Yehuda_Airfield

hobbesmaster fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Nov 9, 2018

# ? Nov 9, 2018 23:32

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 02:33

PittTheElder: Feb 13, 2012; Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

Be that as it may, isn't it real weird for an auto-pilot to be engaged at all below 5,000 ft. or so?

# ? Nov 10, 2018 00:28

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

Not at all, the autopilot is often engaged as soon as the wheels are off the ground and disengaged on final approach or when on the ground.

# ? Nov 10, 2018 00:47

SLOSifl: Aug 10, 2002

Flash Gordon Ramsay posted:

If you're a blind person who drives, at least wear a seatbelt.

GPS lady says �turn left in 400 feet� you just count to 400 (in feet) and turn left. You hear a stop sign, stop etc

# ? Nov 10, 2018 03:22

Dave Grool: Oct 21, 2008; Grimey Drawer

SLOSifl posted:

GPS lady says �turn left in 400 feet� you just count to 400 (in feet) and turn left.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFDU_R6ShmI&t=211s

# ? Nov 10, 2018 03:29

Rad-daddio: Apr 25, 2017

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:

https://i.imgur.com/MFF2pRh.mp4

KILLCRANE!!

# ? Nov 10, 2018 04:32

Humphreys: Jan 26, 2013; We conceived a way to use my mother as a porn mule

The info I have on that WA derailment that recently happened has be completely puzzled.

Park Brake was applied yet it moved. It was also set to low idle, yet managed to get to 100KM/H. There are a number of people saying that the driver could have easily jumped back onboard but I'll wait until more information arises. If the driver was checking something further back (these trains are loving LONG) the driver would have had no hope running back to the cab. Even walking next to those rails is broken ankle territory. The dead mans switch needs to be pressed every two minutes but made a 90KM trip by itself.

I cannot wait until the investigation report comes out.

# ? Nov 10, 2018 04:53

C.M. Kruger: Oct 28, 2013

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuZiegGDN_k

# ? Nov 10, 2018 05:01

orly: Oct 2, 2005

Azathoth posted:

Yep, here's how it goes in America:

Owner: You have sole responsibility for control of the ship and the safety of the passengers.
Captain 1: *looks at weather* I'm turning around, it's not safe. *gets back safely*
Owner: The storm wasn't that bad, you're fired.

Some time later

Owner: You have sole responsibility for control of the ship and the safety of the passengers.
Captain 2: *has a mortgage and gets health insurance through job, has no savings, knows he'll be fired if he turns around* Uh...yeah, I think we'll be fine. *boat sinks, everyone dies*
Owner: This is all the captain's fault for going out in the dangerous storm, I made it clear to him that he has full control over the ship and is responsible for the safety of the passengers.

# ? Nov 10, 2018 05:20

Azathoth: Apr 3, 2001

Humphreys posted:

The info I have on that WA derailment that recently happened has be completely puzzled.

Park Brake was applied yet it moved. It was also set to low idle, yet managed to get to 100KM/H. There are a number of people saying that the driver could have easily jumped back onboard but I'll wait until more information arises. If the driver was checking something further back (these trains are loving LONG) the driver would have had no hope running back to the cab. Even walking next to those rails is broken ankle territory. The dead mans switch needs to be pressed every two minutes but made a 90KM trip by itself.

I cannot wait until the investigation report comes out.

The accident report finds the following conclusions:

1) The parking brake was found to be inoperative at the time of the accident. This was known to maintenance personnel, but the report was not passed along to the train crew or indicated on any of their instruments.
2) Due to the low temperatures at the time of the incident, the hydraulic fluid present in the train's manual braking system would be sufficient to hold the train in place as if the parking brake had been applied. This phenomena was unknown to the train crew at the time of the accident.
3) The operator was outside the train checking on the phase modulated interocitor of car seven at the time of the accident. In cases where the interocitor drops phase, it must be manually reset by the operator and so, per standard procedure, the operator left the engine and proceeded to car seven. The procedure called for the operator to rephase the interocitor using a number 12 flanging handle receptor, but this was missing from the toolkit, so he used a number 9 reciprocating indentation reducer instead. When asked why he didn't use the number 12 flanging handle receptor, as called for in the standard procedure, he reported that the tool had been missing for at least the two years that he had been with the company, and that he knew of no train that carried one, and that he had been advised by company crew that the number 9 reciprocating indentation reducer was safe to use for the task.
4) Due to the use of the inappropriate tool, the waveform vibration created by the reciprocation mechanism caused a change in the viscosity of the hydraulic fluid of the brake lines, causing a critical loss of viscosity in the main braking system. This caused the hydraulic lines to repressurise enough that the inertia of the train was overcome and it began rolling forwards.
5) Due to a design flaw in the throttle control mechanism, setting the selector to "low idle" can cause uncommanded increases of engine power in cases where the braking system reports a segmentation fault error 031 through the train's throttle control system. This is a known design flaw, and a fix has been developed. However, due to the need to take the train out of service for seven days to implement the fix, it was scheduled to be completed during the next routine maintenance. At the time of the accident, it was scheduled to be completed in December 2022.
6) Due to the uncommanded acceleration caused by the faulty control mechanism, the parking brake being inoperative, and the misapplied rephasing procedure, the train began moving uncommanded. At time time, the operator was returning to the engine, and was roughly 2000 feet from the door when it began moving. Due to the speed of the acceleration, it was determined that the operator needed to cover that distance in approximately 45 seconds before the train would reach a speed at which the operator could not run.
7) Previous regulation required that a crewmember be present in the engine during all rephasing procedures, but this regulation was deemed too costly and, per industry requests, was removed in 1997. Had a crewmember been present in the cab at the time of the accident, they could have manually applied the main brakes and stopped the train.

Recommendations:

1) Additional operator calisthenics prior to beginning of shift to ensure that, in cases of necessity, that operators are able to reach their top speed as fast as possible.
2) Further changes deemed not cost effective.

# ? Nov 10, 2018 05:29

haveblue: Aug 15, 2005; Toilet Rascal

Humphreys posted:

The info I have on that WA derailment that recently happened has be completely puzzled.

Park Brake was applied yet it moved. It was also set to low idle, yet managed to get to 100KM/H. There are a number of people saying that the driver could have easily jumped back onboard but I'll wait until more information arises. If the driver was checking something further back (these trains are loving LONG) the driver would have had no hope running back to the cab. Even walking next to those rails is broken ankle territory. The dead mans switch needs to be pressed every two minutes but made a 90KM trip by itself.

I cannot wait until the investigation report comes out.

Viral marketing stunt for Unstoppable 2.

# ? Nov 10, 2018 05:32

CleverHans: Apr 25, 2011; Can't post for 8 years!

Nenonen posted:

so what was the bang?

If I had to guess, I'd wager it was somebody's gas grill propane tank popping off.

# ? Nov 10, 2018 05:53

Humphreys: Jan 26, 2013; We conceived a way to use my mother as a porn mule

Azathoth posted:

The accident report finds the following conclusions:

1) The parking brake was found to be inoperative at the time of the accident. This was known to maintenance personnel, but the report was not passed along to the train crew or indicated on any of their instruments.
2) Due to the low temperatures at the time of the incident, the hydraulic fluid present in the train's manual braking system would be sufficient to hold the train in place as if the parking brake had been applied. This phenomena was unknown to the train crew at the time of the accident.
3) The operator was outside the train checking on the phase modulated interocitor of car seven at the time of the accident. In cases where the interocitor drops phase, it must be manually reset by the operator and so, per standard procedure, the operator left the engine and proceeded to car seven. The procedure called for the operator to rephase the interocitor using a number 12 flanging handle receptor, but this was missing from the toolkit, so he used a number 9 reciprocating indentation reducer instead. When asked why he didn't use the number 12 flanging handle receptor, as called for in the standard procedure, he reported that the tool had been missing for at least the two years that he had been with the company, and that he knew of no train that carried one, and that he had been advised by company crew that the number 9 reciprocating indentation reducer was safe to use for the task.
4) Due to the use of the inappropriate tool, the waveform vibration created by the reciprocation mechanism caused a change in the viscosity of the hydraulic fluid of the brake lines, causing a critical loss of viscosity in the main braking system. This caused the hydraulic lines to repressurise enough that the inertia of the train was overcome and it began rolling forwards.
5) Due to a design flaw in the throttle control mechanism, setting the selector to "low idle" can cause uncommanded increases of engine power in cases where the braking system reports a segmentation fault error 031 through the train's throttle control system. This is a known design flaw, and a fix has been developed. However, due to the need to take the train out of service for seven days to implement the fix, it was scheduled to be completed during the next routine maintenance. At the time of the accident, it was scheduled to be completed in December 2022.
6) Due to the uncommanded acceleration caused by the faulty control mechanism, the parking brake being inoperative, and the misapplied rephasing procedure, the train began moving uncommanded. At time time, the operator was returning to the engine, and was roughly 2000 feet from the door when it began moving. Due to the speed of the acceleration, it was determined that the operator needed to cover that distance in approximately 45 seconds before the train would reach a speed at which the operator could not run.
7) Previous regulation required that a crewmember be present in the engine during all rephasing procedures, but this regulation was deemed too costly and, per industry requests, was removed in 1997. Had a crewmember been present in the cab at the time of the accident, they could have manually applied the main brakes and stopped the train.

Recommendations:

1) Additional operator calisthenics prior to beginning of shift to ensure that, in cases of necessity, that operators are able to reach their top speed as fast as possible.
2) Further changes deemed not cost effective.

OMG

I am sending that 'report' to my driver friends and see who bites first, well done!

# ? Nov 10, 2018 05:55

The Locator: Sep 12, 2004; Out here, everything hurts.

Dave Grool posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuZiegGDN_k]

Any sympathy at all I might have for a driver smacking that bridge is instantly evaporated by how stale the red light is as they enter the intersection with the current warning system.

# ? Nov 10, 2018 06:25

Dread Head: Aug 1, 2005; 0-#01

The Locator posted:

Any sympathy at all I might have for a driver smacking that bridge is instantly evaporated by how stale the red light is as they enter the intersection with the current warning system.

Pretty sure that red light is triggered by over height vehicles but I imagine the person who thinks they can fit probably view red lights as suggestions.

# ? Nov 10, 2018 06:37

Powershift: Nov 23, 2009

# ? Nov 10, 2018 07:27

Bees on Wheat: Jul 18, 2007; I've never been happy

QUAIL DIVISION; Buglord

ekuNNN posted:

https://www.facebook.com/theguardian/videos/262910287746458/
Family driving through a wildfire in paradise

Please don't take me down to the Paradise City.. :ohdear:

One of my brother's friends from high school used to live in Paradise. I say "used to" because I haven't heard from him in several years and I have no idea if he moved away or if his house burned down with the rest of the town. I should probably call my brother and see if he's heard anything..

Oh, and whoever thought to name this blaze the "Camp Fire" is a dick. :kingsley:

# ? Nov 10, 2018 10:13

Platystemon: Feb 13, 2012; BREADS

Dangerous hydropower may have been behind the blaze.

Can you imagine if it were a nuclear plant? They�d never live it down.

# ? Nov 10, 2018 10:24

GotLag: Jul 17, 2005; 食べちゃダメだよ

C.M. Kruger posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuZiegGDN_k

I don't see the problem, the truck makes it through

Dread Head posted:

Pretty sure that red light is triggered by over height vehicles but I imagine the person who thinks they can fit probably view red lights as suggestions.

It's more than just a red light, the illuminated sign between the traffic lights says "OVERHEIGHT MUST TURN", but as you say that sort of driver needs to have the warning literally shoved in their face:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoTMC-uxJoo

Platystemon posted:

Dangerous hydropower may have been behind the blaze.

Can you imagine if it were a nuclear plant? They�d never live it down.

The same thing happened here, in the Black Saturday bushfires of 2009:
https://www.theage.com.au/national/...204-glfmuj.html

GotLag fucked around with this message at 10:34 on Nov 10, 2018

# ? Nov 10, 2018 10:31

SelenicMartian: Sep 14, 2013; Sometimes it's not the bomb that's retarded.

When Langewiesche covers an event with a happy ending, he's good too.

https://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2009/06/us-airways-200906

quote:

Furthermore, they had 760 official collisions with deer, 252 with coyotes, 182 with rabbits, 120 with rodents including porcupines, 74 with turtles, 59 with opossums, 16 with armadillos, 14 with alligators, 7 with iguanas, 4 with moose, 2 with caribou, and one each with a wild pig and a donkey. There was also an official collision with a fish, though the fish was in the grasp of an osprey at the time.

In the murky realm of wildlife strikes, the Sandusky database helps to shed some light. It confirms, for instance, that all of the recorded aircraft collisions with terrestrial mammals have occurred on the ground. The same is true for recorded aircraft collisions with reptiles. Somehow this is reassuring.

# ? Nov 10, 2018 11:30

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

Flash Gordon Ramsay posted:

If you're a blind person who drives, at least wear a seatbelt.

It's really hard to fasten one with both eyes closed.

# ? Nov 10, 2018 11:52

BlankIsBeautiful: Apr 4, 2008; Feeling a little inadequate?

Dread Head posted:

Pretty sure that red light is triggered by over height vehicles but I imagine the person who thinks they can fit probably view red lights as suggestions.

Or, if they're plain stupid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZKgOYGP0aY

I've posted this before, here, I think, but at my ex company, I worked with this idiot. I mean, we had a lot of good drivers, but this guy just knew everything *way* better than you did, therefore you were always wrong, and yes, regulations were simply a rule of thumb to him. When I left in 2016, he was still working for the company.

# ? Nov 10, 2018 12:03

Buttcoin purse: Apr 24, 2014

Humphreys posted:

The info I have on that WA derailment that recently happened has be completely puzzled.

Park Brake was applied yet it moved. It was also set to low idle, yet managed to get to 100KM/H. There are a number of people saying that the driver could have easily jumped back onboard but I'll wait until more information arises. If the driver was checking something further back (these trains are loving LONG) the driver would have had no hope running back to the cab. Even walking next to those rails is broken ankle territory. The dead mans switch needs to be pressed every two minutes but made a 90KM trip by itself.

I cannot wait until the investigation report comes out.

I took a look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lac-M%C3%A9gantic_rail_disaster again. I probably only heard about that because of this thread, and probably remember it well because it was only the first or second time I'd really read about an industrial disaster like this. The article says:

quote:

The track from Nantes to Lac-M�gantic is downhill on a 1.2% grade.[19] Nantes is 515 metres (1,690 ft) above sea level, Lac M�gantic is 108 m (354 ft) lower at 407 m (1,335 ft).

quote:

With all the locomotives shut down, the air compressor no longer supplied air to the air brake system. As air leaked from the brake system, the main air reservoirs were slowly depleted, gradually reducing the effectiveness of the locomotive air brakes. At 00:56, the air pressure had dropped to a point at which the combination of locomotive air brakes and hand brakes could no longer hold the train, and it began to roll downhill toward Lac-M�gantic, just over seven miles away.[38][70] A witness recalled watching the train moving slowly toward Lac-M�gantic without the locomotive lights on.[71] The track was not equipped with track circuits to alert the rail traffic controller to the presence of a runaway train.[46]

Gathering momentum on the long downhill slope, the train entered the town of Lac-M�gantic at high speed.[72][44][73] The TSB's final report concluded that the train was travelling at 105 kilometres per hour (65 mph), more than triple the typical speed for that location.

I'm surprised a train could get up to that kind of speed just from gravity, they make so much noise it seems like there must be a lot of friction there. I wonder what the terminal velocity is?

What kind of grade was the BHP train on? I searched for the siding where the driver set it free, but couldn't find it.

# ? Nov 10, 2018 12:22

AFewBricksShy: Jun 19, 2003; of a full load.

ekuNNN posted:

https://www.facebook.com/theguardian/videos/262910287746458/
Family driving through a wildfire in paradise

Could the smoke be enough to choke out the engine?

# ? Nov 10, 2018 12:40

OrthoTrot: Dec 10, 2006; Its either Trotsky or its Notsky

That does seem very fast just from gravity. But the attraction of trains as a mode of transport is that they conserve momentum really well. Plus a huge freight train is going to be seriously heavy.

There was a runaway engineering loco on the underground a few years ago I think. I've not seen a report or anything but the rumour going round was that the driver of the passenger train ahead of it was just told to go as fast as possible to get out of its way. That conversation had to have been interesting.

# ? Nov 10, 2018 13:14

Platystemon: Feb 13, 2012; BREADS

AFewBricksShy posted:

Could the smoke be enough to choke out the engine?

The driver would die long before that happened.

Lack of oxygen is what would kill the engine, but humans can be smothered by 100 ppm of carbon monoxide while the air contains plenty of oxygen.

To the engine, carbon monoxide is close enough to inert at that concentration.

# ? Nov 10, 2018 13:26

schmug: May 20, 2007

Powershift posted:

guess that shows just how strong even a couple of those quick connects are.

# ? Nov 10, 2018 14:28

wesleywillis: Dec 30, 2016; SUCK A MALE CAMEL'S DICK WITH MIRACLE WHIP!!

schmug posted:

guess that shows just how strong even a couple of those quick connects are.

The Kingpin too. I remember a truck crash around my area years ago, a truck was hanging over the edge of a bridge, only being held in place by the kingpin.

# ? Nov 10, 2018 15:23

Lazlo Nibble: Jan 9, 2004; It was Weasleby, by God! At last I had the miserable blighter precisely where I wanted him!

PG&E powerlines are also likely to have caused the Tubbs Fire that wiped out a decent chunk of Santa Rosa, CA late last year. The scariest thing about that one is the timeline, as shown on the map in the linked article. It started just before 10 PM next to a rural highway ten miles east of town and by three in the morning had crossed a low mountain range and was merrily burning out entire residential neighborhoods in a city of 175,000 people.

We visited family there last summer and unknowingly booked our room in a motel right where the fire crossed US-101, a stone�s throw from the completely-destroyed Coffey Park neighborhood. Until I realized what I was looking at, I thought the scattered businesses surrounded by acres of cleared vacant lots were the result of some weird local zoning thing�nope! Just random luck as to what burned and what didn�t. The fire blew through so low and so quickly that a lot of the trees survived just fine, so with all the debris already cleaned up you wouldn�t even know there had been a fire, it just looked like the missing buildings (including another motel next door and a K Mart just over the back fence) had never been built in the first place.

# ? Nov 10, 2018 19:32

Say Nothing: Mar 5, 2013; by FactsAreUseless

# ? Nov 10, 2018 21:50

Complications: Jun 19, 2014

Bees on Wheat posted:

Oh, and whoever thought to name this blaze the "Camp Fire" is a dick.

By convention fires are named for the locations where they start in California. In this case, it was named for the nearby Camp Creek. Cal Fire actually has a pdf for explaining it here.

# ? Nov 10, 2018 23:07

Endjinneer: Aug 17, 2005; Fallen Rib

Trains can get up to a fair speed on their own if you don't keep an eye on them...
https://www.gov.uk/raib-reports/uncontrolled-freight-train-run-back-between-shap-and-tebay-cumbria

quote:

In the early hours of 17 August 2010, a northbound freight train was travelling uphill on the West Coast Main Line between Tebay and Shap Summit in Cumbria. At 02:04 hrs the train slowed to a stop and then ran back until the driver braked and the train came to a stand at 02:09 hrs. During the run-back the train reached a maximum speed of 51 mph (82 km/h) and travelled 2.2 miles (3.5 km)...The investigation found that DB Schenker�s train driver, who was working the first of a series of night shifts, was probably fatigued and not sufficiently alert at the time of the incident.

# ? Nov 10, 2018 23:07

Tafferling: Oct 22, 2008; DOOT DOOT
ALL ABOARD THE ISS POLOKONZERVA

"This Saturday, while a white march was organized in Marseille in tribute to eight people who died Monday, November 5 after the collapse of buildings, a piece of balcony collapsed on the crowd and made three wounded"

I can't even

# ? Nov 11, 2018 00:52

Private Speech: Mar 30, 2011; I HAVE EVEN MORE WORTHLESS BEANIE BABIES IN MY COLLECTION THAN I HAVE WORTHLESS POSTS IN THE BEANIE BABY THREAD YET I STILL HAVE THE TEMERITY TO CRITICIZE OTHERS' COLLECTIONS

IF YOU SEE ME TALKING ABOUT BEANIE BABIES, PLEASE TELL ME TO

EAT. SHIT.

Endjinneer posted:

Trains can get up to a fair speed on their own if you don't keep an eye on them...
https://www.gov.uk/raib-reports/uncontrolled-freight-train-run-back-between-shap-and-tebay-cumbria

How the hell can you be so tired that you do not notice that you're going backwards instead of forwards, at 80kph at that.

# ? Nov 11, 2018 01:37

starkebn: May 18, 2004; "Oooh, got a little too serious. You okay there, little buddy?"

https://i.imgur.com/BLaHVFK.mp4

# ? Nov 11, 2018 01:47

starkebn: May 18, 2004; "Oooh, got a little too serious. You okay there, little buddy?"

https://i.imgur.com/28KMyGm.mp4

# ? Nov 11, 2018 01:48

Azathoth: Apr 3, 2001

Private Speech posted:

How the hell can you be so tired that you do not notice that you're going backwards instead of forwards, at 80kph at that.

I'm actually curious about this. I know from reading about aircraft accidents that pilots are trained specifically to ignore a lot of what their body is instinctively telling them because there's a whole lot of situations where the body either won't tell them about problems or give indications that are exactly opposite from what is really happening. Does something similar happen with trains?

# ? Nov 11, 2018 02:01