|
Nissin Cup Nudist posted:We can just Weekend at Bernie, Bernie The path for AOC to be president is clear.
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2018 04:18
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 2, 2024 10:39 |
|
|
Adar posted:Gillibrand is sort of ok but also 20% worse than Klobuchar in every way I'm going to have to review Klobuchar's policy positions because my but is telling me she's to the right of Most Recent Ten Years Gillibrand but it's been a while since I actually read a decent summary of her and I could have it totally wrong. In what's likely to becpme a frequent refrain for me for the next year or so, I personally think Gillibrand is at least more reliable / less weathervaney than almost any other prominent possibility whose name doesn't rhyme with Sernie Banders - she swung pretty left when she went from a centrist-y House district to NY Senator and stayed there.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2018 04:29
|
|
|
GreyjoyBastard posted:I'm going to have to review Klobuchar's policy positions because my but is telling me she's to the right of Most Recent Ten Years Gillibrand but it's been a while since I actually read a decent summary of her and I could have it totally wrong. Klobuchar is right around where Schumer is overall, in that she's very much center left, but it is worth pointing out that she represents a much more purple state. Overall, Klobuchar is kinda hard to pin down on ideological scales because she writes a lot of bipartisan legislation, recently she's been touting an anti-sex trafficking bill she wrote with Cornyn, but we never have really had to worry about her defecting on anything that matters. My feeling is that if Bernie can't find a good progressive to groom for VP, she'd be the best establishment pick.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2018 05:18
|
|
|
Agreed. The one guy whose policies and what he has interest in will support those people.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2018 05:18
|
|
|
On pure policy, Sherrod Brown is much further left than Klobuchar, though neither is super charismatic. A Sanders/Klobuchar ticket would make sense, but I think Sherrod Brown would make a better VP pairing for a not-white-man than Klobuchar would.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2018 05:24
|
|
|
Mahoning posted:On pure policy, Sherrod Brown is much further left than Klobuchar, though neither is super charismatic. A Sanders/Klobuchar ticket would make sense, but I think Sherrod Brown would make a better VP pairing for a not-white-man than Klobuchar would. I'd agree if Cordray had won, but Brown winning VP would mean the GOP nominates a Republican to fill out the remainder of the six year term he just won. Klobuchar would have her replacement nominated by a Dem.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2018 05:30
|
|
|
Real talk. In 2020 what are the odds to have a Black Man/Woman or Asian Man/Woman elected President. Because Race and Color of Skin can be an issue due to Trump. I ask because what is Gillum's stances and would he be under consideration if he does not in fact eek it out in Florida?
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2018 05:31
|
|
|
Azathoth posted:I'd agree if Cordray had won, but Brown winning VP would mean the GOP nominates a Republican to fill out the remainder of the six year term he just won. Klobuchar would have her replacement nominated by a Dem. This is an excellent point but at the same time I’d much rather have the presidency than play it safe in the senate. Of course that opinion of mine is from an imaginary world where we actually know how much a VP pick affects the ticket. Like, if I knew Sherrod Brown would get us over the hump in PA/MI/WI, I’d give up that seat in a second. But it’s hard to gamble with senate seats.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2018 05:37
|
|
|
Gatts posted:Real talk. In 2020 what are the odds to have a Black Man/Woman or Asian Man/Woman elected President. Because Race and Color of Skin can be an issue due to Trump. I ask because what is Gillum's stances and would he be under consideration if he does not in fact eek it out in Florida? If he ekes it out he'd be a very viable VP, win or lose a national primary campaign would probably not be something he's prepared for, considering the Democratic Presidential campaign starts in a few weeks time.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2018 05:45
|
|
|
Gatts posted:Real talk. In 2020 what are the odds to have a Black Man/Woman or Asian Man/Woman elected President. Because Race and Color of Skin can be an issue due to Trump. I ask because what is Gillum's stances and would he be under consideration if he does not in fact eek it out in Florida? If I recall correctly youve got Booker, the Castros, Gillibrand, Klobucher, Clinton Mk3, Harris and a bunch of other less likelies, mostly women. Id take Bernie's principles over any of their identity markers though. We had a black president who didnt believe in the things he claimed, it didnt go well. We had a woman candidate who didnt believe in the things she claimed. It didnt go well. I think the first and foremost concern should be a candidate who says good things and actually appears to believe in the things they say.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2018 05:52
|
|
|
Not a Step posted:If I recall correctly youve got Booker, the Castros, Gillibrand, Klobucher, Clinton Mk3, Harris and a bunch of other less likelies, mostly women. Lightning Knight is pitching
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2018 06:00
|
|
|
Has Turner expressed any interest in running? I havent been keeping up with her. Off the top of my head I guess Id be ok with her.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2018 06:06
|
|
|
Not a Step posted:Has Turner expressed any interest in running? I havent been keeping up with her. Off the top of my head I guess Id be ok with her. not that I know of but I've been pretty into spitballing less prominent but conceivable candidates because we already know it's going to be a crowded field, if there was ever a time for an unlikely person to run it's 2020
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2018 06:10
|
|
|
Mahoning posted:This is an excellent point but at the same time I’d much rather have the presidency than play it safe in the senate. Of course that opinion of mine is from an imaginary world where we actually know how much a VP pick affects the ticket. Like, if I knew Sherrod Brown would get us over the hump in PA/MI/WI, I’d give up that seat in a second. But it’s hard to gamble with senate seats. The reason to pick Klobuchar is that she's basically the female version of Joe Biden from 2008, that is, a safe pick who's not gonna give you any big crap-ups and can be counted on to reliably deliver the message, at least if you want a "unity" ticket with Sanders and one of the various establishment candidates floating around.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2018 06:11
|
|
|
I'm not entirely sure I want a Sanders - Moderate unity ticket, given his age Sanders' VP matters a bit more than most, see also McCain Palin
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2018 06:15
|
|
|
GreyjoyBastard posted:I'm not entirely sure I want a Sanders - Moderate unity ticket, given his age Lincoln had Johnson chosen for him. FDR had Truman chosen for him. Sanders will obviously have Jeb! as VP.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2018 06:18
|
|
|
Nonsense posted:Lincoln had Johnson chosen for him. the longest of cons
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2018 06:22
|
|
|
GreyjoyBastard posted:I'm not entirely sure I want a Sanders - Moderate unity ticket, given his age I don't particularly want it either, but there's a very small list of people who could be an effective VP and are also actually decent on policy, and it's possible that Bernie will have to make a choice between nominating someone effective but further right or rolling the dice on a less experienced pick. My argument is that if he's gonna go for the former, Klobuchar is gonna be the best of the bunch.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2018 06:26
|
|
|
Isnt the VP pick traditionally given to solidify power with one faction or other? And then you just hope they dont become a constant gaffe machine for the next four years? Klobucher could fill that role. Bernie is strong and vital, the VP aint gonna do poo poo in his first term. The second gets dicey, but thats when AOC has her time to shine in my elaborate fantasy world. Even sickly ghoul McCain made it though Obama's full presidency before his brain, not his heart, gave out.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2018 06:33
|
|
|
Azathoth posted:I don't particularly want it either, but there's a very small list of people who could be an effective VP and are also actually decent on policy, and it's possible that Bernie will have to make a choice between nominating someone effective but further right or rolling the dice on a less experienced pick. My argument is that if he's gonna go for the former, Klobuchar is gonna be the best of the bunch. I suppose I could come round to that, and hey, maybe she is in fact a Good Dem trapped in a purple position.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2018 06:35
|
|
|
GreyjoyBastard posted:Sanders' VP matters a bit more than most, see also McCain Palin In a surprising twist, Sanders will introduce a Very Good Dog as his VP. Just walk onto stage with a golden retriever and be like "I am proud to introduce my candidate for Vice President, Rex" followed by showing off Rex's intelligence with various complicated tricks.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2018 06:35
|
|
|
GreyjoyBastard posted:Lightning Knight is pitching I highly doubt that Nina Turner runs for President outright and she's not traditionally "qualified" for VP, I think the only position she's held is state-level, but tbh I don't that matters and VP would be a safe position for her to get national level experience. I think it's highly unlikely she is the VP pick however, which is a shame. She is cool and good as far as I know, issues with OR not withstanding.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2018 06:51
|
|
|
Not a Step posted:Isnt the VP pick traditionally given to solidify power with one faction or other? And then you just hope they dont become a constant gaffe machine for the next four years? Klobucher could fill that role. Bernie is strong and vital, the VP aint gonna do poo poo in his first term. The second gets dicey, but thats when AOC has her time to shine in my elaborate fantasy world. Faction is probably too strong a word, the pick is generally with an eye towards shoring up whatever weakness is perceived in the candidate. It used to be like that, but not really anymore. Pence because Trump needed someone to vouch for him to Christian conservatives, Biden because Obama was young and had no national security experience, Ryan because Romney was old and boring, Kaine because he could speak Spanish and not upstage Hillary, Palin with McCain for much the same reasons Romney picked Ryan, and Edwards with Kerry for much the same reason.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2018 06:52
|
|
|
Sanders/Turner would be amazing in 2020, even if it is unlikely. Barbara Lee probably couldn't outdo Sanders after his 2016 notoriety, and having a young person as VP who isn't a disgusting DNC lackey would be amazing.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2018 07:27
|
|
|
The thing with shoring up Bernie's weakness with a VP pick is that in many cases bernie's 'weaknesses' are things his own base actively likes. I'd expect a young VP but anything beyond that risks dampening vital enthusiasm.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2018 07:30
|
|
|
That's the best thing about Turner, she actively campaigned for Sanders and doesn't have his gun control baggage, and there's pretty much no way the Liberals could manage to paint her as racist or sexist. Not that I think the general is a real big worry if Sanders were to win the primaries, he could beat Trump or Pence with his eyes closed.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2018 07:37
|
|
|
Turner as VP would also hopefully have some amazing reactions from Donut Twitter.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2018 08:40
|
|
|
Ghost Leviathan posted:Turner as VP would also hopefully have some amazing reactions from Donut Twitter. I pick her based on this alone. Now to become Bernie's campaign manager...
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2018 09:25
|
|
|
Brony Car posted:The joke's on you. God loves hateful Republicans and keeps them alive. God hates inspiring Democrats and kills them as early as he can. 
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2018 09:56
|
|
|
Azathoth posted:Kaine because he could speak Spanish and not upstage Hillary I would argue that the main reason why Hillary Clinton chose Tim Kaine as her VP was to (cynically) secure Virginia's electoral college votes. Whether it was an intentional move or not, Clinton's decision to select Kaine was also a major snub to the Democratic Party's progressive base.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2018 12:25
|
|
|
GreyjoyBastard posted:I'm going to have to review Klobuchar's policy positions because my but is telling me she's to the right of Most Recent Ten Years Gillibrand but it's been a while since I actually read a decent summary of her and I could have it totally wrong. Klobuchar is closer to Hillary on the spectrum than Sanders. She's not even to the left of Sherrod Brown, who represents a much redder state. Her appeal as far as I can tell is that she's a popular governor who does well with rural white voters. But Democrats have made this error before, and rural white voters from the midwest ≠ rural white voters everywhere.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2018 14:55
|
|
|
exquisite tea posted:Klobuchar is closer to Hillary on the spectrum than Sanders. She's not even to the left of Sherrod Brown, who represents a much redder state. Her appeal as far as I can tell is that she's a popular governor who does well with rural white voters. But Democrats have made this error before, and rural white voters from the midwest ≠ rural white voters everywhere. As a Minnesotan, I can say that she's the very embodiment of the outdated idea that with the right candidate, the Dems can win over voters who otherwise vote Republican. It absolutely works in Minnesota, because the state is divided into so many media markets that a good retail politician can win over voters who nominally don't support any of their policies. Take a look at the difference between her vote total and that of Tina Smith, Klobuchar ran about 7% ahead of Smith, despite them not being any different ideologically. That kind of thing doesn't really work nationally. Retail politics doesn't work on that kind of scale, and there's no time to build out that kind of personal connection with voters. That said, Klobuchar could absolutely win in 2020. Hillary ran the biggest shitshow of a campaign in modern history and still nearly won. Klobuchar represents a kind of safe bet for Dems, someone who will repeat the Hillary map, but not lose Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania. I don't think Klobuchar has much appeal outside of that map, in that I don't think she'd be any better than any of the other establishment candidates at flipping Florida, North Carolina, Arizona, or Georgia, but it's difficult for me to see how Klobuchar doesn't win with that narrow map, given how Hillary did, and she's basically Hillary without the baggage.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2018 15:14
|
|
|
Lightning Knight posted:Yeah I’m not saying Corbyn is 100% wrong for that one, is an anti austerity thing and I respect that. It’s just also tied up in the race and class politics of modern policing as an institution. This is slightly besides the point, but the situation in the U.K. is different because the person who'd end up in charge of the police in a hypothetical Corbyn government would be Diane Abbott, and I'm pretty drat convinced that she'd do her utmost to root out racism and classism in the police to the very best of her ability on account of her having fought against those things for her entire political career even when that fight seemingly relegated her to the back benches for eternity. And gently caress it, Sanders/Turner 2020. The whole pick a VP to boost your chances seems like horseshit anyway.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2018 15:53
|
|
|
AFancyQuestionMark posted:Still uses the same speeches, too. Lol, lib purity tests
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2018 17:24
|
|
|
Cerebral Bore posted:because the person who'd end up in charge of the police in a hypothetical Corbyn government would be Diane Abbott Ok, fair enough!  VitalSigns posted:Lol, lib purity tests I think it's a legitimate criticism if only because there a lot of economic issues I would like to see Bernie talk about in more detail that he generally doesn't. For example, I would really like him to champion a housing-first policy for the homeless. I basically wish he would expand his horizons, but I also understand not fixing what isn't broken.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2018 17:27
|
|
|
Azathoth posted:I don't think Klobuchar has much appeal outside of that map, in that I don't think she'd be any better than any of the other establishment candidates at flipping Florida, North Carolina, Arizona, or Georgia, but it's difficult for me to see how Klobuchar doesn't win with that narrow map, given how Hillary did, and she's basically Hillary without the baggage. This is all we need, and I increasingly question if Bernie can actually do well in the rural Midwest when not running against the Hated Clinton. Especially after seeing (and experiencing) a wave of progressives spin out and crash in rural Michigan during the 2018 primaries and generals.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2018 17:39
|
|
|
LinYutang posted:This is all we need, and I increasingly question if Bernie can actually do well in the rural Midwest when not running against the Hated Clinton. Especially after seeing (and experiencing) a wave of progressives spin out and crash in rural Michigan during the 2018 primaries and generals. I think that primary said more about race than it did about progressive policy. Plus, El-Sayed had more than a few foot-in-mouth moments.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2018 17:55
|
|
|
Inspiring. Not demoralizing.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2018 18:03
|
|
|
LinYutang posted:This is all we need, and I increasingly question if Bernie can actually do well in the rural Midwest when not running against the Hated Clinton. Especially after seeing (and experiencing) a wave of progressives spin out and crash in rural Michigan during the 2018 primaries and generals. As a rural Midwesterner, yes he can. He'll do way, way better out here than Booker or Harris, who are the real establishment candidates right now. I seriously question whether either of them would flip WI, MI, and PA back. I think they can, but it'd be an absolute lock with Bernie. Folks around here are real fed up with the neoliberal message.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2018 18:24
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 2, 2024 10:39 |
|
|
Bernie/Lee is my hope. I think it's important to have a credible progressive VP given Bernie's age.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2018 18:27
|
|
