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King of Solomon posted:So where do you draw the line? At what point do you look at a Democratic candidate and say "no, I can't support this person, even though the Republican is worse"? You already answered that dude. And for the record, I voted against her in the primary because I'm not loving stupid. And I donated money to dems this campaign but not her. But yeah, between her and Hawley I voted for her.
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Nov 11, 2018 20:34
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https://twitter.com/Nate_Cohn/status/1061680107411161088 https://twitter.com/Nate_Cohn/status/1061681110302818306 https://twitter.com/drewsg1/status/1061680847391244289 Florida is trending red pretty fast, with olds moving there and well-assimilated cuban-american base doubling down on the GOP
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Nov 11, 2018 20:35
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Skex posted:An explanation is not the same as an excuse. The circumstances that created the unaccompanied minor crisis were outside of the immediate control of the Obama administration at the time and the resources and systems to deal with it didn't exist. While yes the optics of children in warehouse spaces using chain fence partitions and enclosures were horrible they were in fact superior to leaving them wandering in the streets and it was a substantially different situation than the deliberate cruelty of intentionally separating children including infants from their families in order to send a message to other potential refugees that they are not welcome here. this is the problem, you only care about "the optics." perhaps the solution to homeless refugees isn't to pay private prison companies to lock them in cages, but provide them with decent living conditions? quote:Let's put this in video game terms to see if people can grasp it. Pelosi is the tank, she is there to absorb the attacks from the right and defend the party leaving room for members such as Waters and Lee can do their thing. And she is very effective at it. Her Waters and Lee are allies, they probably intentionally determined their roles in this fight together and likely coordinate strategy regularly. if pelosi is tanking, she is doing a terrible job at holding aggro off of maxine waters, who is hated as much as nancy pelosi by the right. the mmo routine would be to kick a tank who can't hold aggro, why shouldn't we replace the speaker for the same reason?
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Nov 11, 2018 20:35
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Party Plane Jones posted:There is now a current affairs/news thread. Enjoy: Stickman posted:I'm mostly disappointed that there's no place left in this post-election hellscape for puppies. https://i.imgur.com/i043EOx.gifv
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Nov 11, 2018 20:36
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alpha_destroy posted:You already answered that dude. So there is no line. There is no standard you will hold a Democrat to as long as the Republican is even slightly worse?
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Nov 11, 2018 20:36
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WRT: "if Donnelly, Heitkamp, Bredesen and McCaskill all won we'd have taken the Senate!" talk, again...I don't remember any forecasts saying this would happen. I guess I don't see the point in debating how things would have gone in a fictional parallel universe, nor do I see the value of doing said same nor what it could possibly teach us.
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Nov 11, 2018 20:37
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As Sinema's lead grows and seats tighten in CA, The Donald is handling it surprisingly calmquote:Simple...voter fraud penalties: 20 years and automatic deportation for voter, 40 years for volunteers, and life without parole for officials, per single fraudulent vote.
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Nov 11, 2018 20:37
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Fritz Coldcockin posted:You forgot Colorado. CO is as close to a layup as Democrats will get in 2020. Look for Cory Gardner to try and scramble back towards the middle with Colorado slowly trending bluer and bluer, and I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see Susan "Fuckface" Collins "remember" that she was supposed to be a moderate in an attempt to save her hide too. Too late for her though--she burned every bridge to moderates and conservative Democrats by voting for Kavanaugh. I'll talk about it in my Maine post, but she's the senior Senator in Maine now, and long incumbent senators get there by knowing their constituents better then anyone else. Then again, Collins has some pretty bad polling numbers atm too. *what the gently caress is happening in AZ does anyone know
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Nov 11, 2018 20:37
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Party Plane Jones posted:There is now a current affairs/news thread. Enjoy: Thanks. Never going to post in it or read it, but thanks anyway.
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Nov 11, 2018 20:38
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King of Solomon posted:So there is no line. There is no standard you will hold a Democrat to as long as the Republican is even slightly worse? In our hosed up system, yes I am always voting for the less bad option when there is no other alternative. But, like I was saying, there is a lot more to politics than voting and none of my non-voting energy went to McCaskill. Voting for her against Hawley was literally the least I could do but was also definitely the thing to do in the circumstances. Edit: also, my original point was that talking in hypotheticals and abstractions masks actual effects. So gently caress your dumb hypothetical line of questioning anyway. alpha_destroy fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Nov 11, 2018 |
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Nov 11, 2018 20:40
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Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:As Sinema's lead grows and seats tighten in CA, The Donald is handling it surprisingly calm Getting a big ol' chuckle out of the guy who thinks Trump can invalidate any election he wants. That isn't how it works, champ. Now go ask your mom for some pudding.
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Nov 11, 2018 20:40
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Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:As Sinema's lead grows and seats tighten in CA, The Donald is handling it surprisingly calm havin a normal one demanding martial law
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Nov 11, 2018 20:42
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Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:As Sinema's lead grows and seats tighten in CA, The Donald is handling it surprisingly calm he's pretty much declaring that the AZ/FL elections are fake on twitter, it's pretty amazing that TRUMP has driven the discourse in the country to the point where any close democratic victory is considered illegitimate
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Nov 11, 2018 20:43
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King of Solomon posted:So where do you draw the line? At what point do you look at a Democratic candidate and say "no, I can't support this person, even though the Republican is worse"? Either 1) literally worse than the Republican (i.e. literal child rapist), 2) secure enough control of the (massively undemocratic) Senate to ensure that the party of white nationalism is likely to be elected, 3) overhaul of our massively lovely election system so that we can just argue about whether it worth our leftist party forming a coalition with the dirty centrists to create a majority coalition, or 4) poo poo is hosed enough that insurrection is the only solution. The Senate map is getting worse by year, so I suspect losing blue dogs isn't going to lead to better candidates in those states in the future, or at least not the near future. Captain Invictus posted:You/this are/is a godsend. My schedules been lovely as of late and a thread like that is highly useful. 
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Nov 11, 2018 20:44
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Typo posted:Florida is trending red pretty fast, with olds moving there and well-assimilated cuban-american base doubling down on the GOP If Florida is on the brink of being lost, as is Ohio, Democrats better have really clever plans for the Wisconsin, Arizona and making Pennsylvania the next Virginia. Also getting PR and DC into loving statehood.
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Nov 11, 2018 20:44
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alpha_destroy posted:And Josh Hawley, who supports Trump's child separation policy isn't?
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Nov 11, 2018 20:46
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Fritz Coldcockin posted:Dunking on them repeatedly is the only language the chuds understand. No, they are a either a pre-lingistic society or have a TNG language all their own. "Trump, when the escalator descended." "Charlie Kirk, his diapers fresh."
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Nov 11, 2018 20:46
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Sanguinia posted:If Florida is on the brink of being lost, as is Ohio, Democrats better have really clever plans for the Wisconsin, Arizona and making Pennsylvania the next Virginia. Also getting PR and DC into loving statehood. https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1061657448719749120 This map gets you to 270 without Florida or Ohio. (Edit DO NOT PUT YOUR FAITH IN IOWA AND ARIZONA THIS IS NOT A GOOD PATH)
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Nov 11, 2018 20:48
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Typo posted:he's pretty much declaring that the AZ/FL elections are fake on twitter, it's pretty amazing that TRUMP has driven the discourse in the country to the point where any close democratic victory is considered illegitimate The amazing thing is that your system lasted this long without anyone pushing these buttons before.
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Nov 11, 2018 20:48
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Pththya-lyi posted:No, they are a either a pre-lingistic society or have a TNG language all their own. America, when The Wall fell.
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Nov 11, 2018 20:48
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Typo posted:https://twitter.com/Nate_Cohn/status/1061680107411161088 Low turnout in Dade though, I can't explain it.
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Nov 11, 2018 20:49
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Sanguinia posted:If Florida is on the brink of being lost, as is Ohio, Democrats better have really clever plans for the Wisconsin, Arizona and making Pennsylvania the next Virginia. Also getting PR and DC into loving statehood. Arizona is bluing pretty fast, as is North Carolina and Georgia, WI/MI/PA judging by the midterm results are lean blue for the next couple cycles at least Also at the presidential level, there is that -3 Beto loss in Texas which shows the state is competitive at this point with a good candidate
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Nov 11, 2018 20:50
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Tibalt posted:https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1061657448719749120
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Nov 11, 2018 20:50
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Sanguinia posted:If Florida is on the brink of being lost, as is Ohio, Democrats better have really clever plans for the Wisconsin, Arizona and making Pennsylvania the next Virginia. Also getting PR and DC into loving statehood. Pennsylvania was like a Democratic stronghold for generations until 2016 and now you're talking about it like it's a red state.
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Nov 11, 2018 20:50
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I can't emphasize the point enough, Claire McCaskill ran TV ads calling fellow Democrats crazy, it cannot be more apparent that the resistance to criticizing Democrats only goes one way: to silence criticism of corporate Dems who are of course under no reciprocal obligation to refrain from criticizing antiracists and other left-wing Democrats.
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Nov 11, 2018 20:51
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as long as the democrats keep doing the "i know we aren't great, but have you SEEN" the other guy, they are complicit in fascism, and nothing will get better.
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Nov 11, 2018 20:52
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Typo posted:I say Ohio is lost by this point, there is only 1 state-wide Democrat in elected office at this point (Sherrod Brown), who didn't win this election by all that much Is there any real hope for Georgia with how badly they've been screwed over by voter supression? I want to believe, and recent elections show that many high-level D strategists do, but Georgia's actual results continue to strike me as a pipe dream. North Carolina looks substantially better in my eyes. Giggy posted:Pennsylvania was like a Democratic stronghold for generations until 2016 and now you're talking about it like it's a red state. I've always understood Penn to be a purple-leaning-teal swing state. Is that wrong? Anyway, I know it's a state that generally favors Ds, I just meant I'd like to see it trending more like Virginia, where the D's are surging in all corners even areas where they traditionally haven't had success. Sanguinia fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Nov 11, 2018 |
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Nov 11, 2018 20:53
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Tibalt posted:https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1061657448719749120 the easiest way to 270, I agree, is to just to rebuild that blue wall of MI/WI/PA but that means nominating someone like Klobuchar which I don't see the party doing in 2020
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Nov 11, 2018 20:53
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Stickman posted:Either 1) literally worse than the Republican (i.e. literal child rapist), 2) secure enough control of the (massively undemocratic) Senate to ensure that the party of white nationalism is likely to be elected, 3) overhaul of our massively lovely election system so that we can just argue about whether it worth our leftist party forming a coalition with the dirty centrists to create a majority coalition, or 4) poo poo is hosed enough that insurrection is the only solution. Yeah, I can't relate to this at all. Maybe I'd think differently if I lived in a red state, but I couldn't see myself voting for Joe Donnelly under any circumstances, to say nothing of people who are theoretically even worse than him.
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Nov 11, 2018 20:53
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if the felons could've voted gillum and nelson would've won pretty easily.
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Nov 11, 2018 20:54
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Sanguinia posted:Is there any real hope for Georgia with how badly they've been screwed over by voter supression? I want to believe, and recent elections show that many high-level D strategists do, but Georgia's actual results continue to strike me as a pipe dream. GA was R+5 in 2016 and Stacy Abrams in recount territory even with voter suppression voter suppression is probably R+1/R+2, but it's not an obstacle that could not be overcame, the key has to be college educated whites (esp women) near Atlanta many of whom are transplants from the north. It's pretty difficult to voter suppress those people relative to minorities.
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Nov 11, 2018 20:54
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Typo posted:I say Ohio is lost by this point, there is only 1 state-wide Democrat in elected office at this point (Sherrod Brown), who didn't win this election by all that much I think Ohio is falling victim to demographics; throughout the state but prominently in the southern half, young Ohioans are moving away to the coasts or to Chicago rather than stick around their towns and cities. We’ll have to wait and see how 2020 shakes out, but I’m similarly not optimistic about it.
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Nov 11, 2018 20:55
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Cerebral Bore posted:This happens because republican voters know that when they vote GOP, their representatives will broadly do what they want, whereas the first thing Democrats do when they get power is to start making GBS threads on their base and declare that the things the base wants are completely off the table. This leads to the current situation where the GOP wins over and over until they gently caress up so bad that the sheer popular backlash gives the Dems an occasional win, hth. Hence the Democratic party needs to be reformed first if you want the GOP out of power for good Yeah, the Republican base sure is exclusively billionaires who get helped by tax cuts. The only way this statement could be even sort of true is if you admit you do not care about fighting racism and naziism, and only care about you and your interests. Cause you're arguing that Republican voters care about destroying the lives of anyone they think is different, and you dont care about stopping them doing that. And the idea that leftism can magically always beat fascism got shot in the head and left in a ditch by Bolsonaro. Not a Step posted:The Democratic Party actively works to undermine its own primary process to freeze out leftist candidates. Its a bit of a problem. "Having people who are not you voting in it" is not actively freezing them out. A test isn't biased against you because you refuse to do anything to succeed in it and feel you deserve to win just for showing up. Maybe, just maybe, all the leftists who scream we need leftist candidates to win, should focus on making those leftist candidates better at winning, and not demand the dems give them the nomination just for showing up so they can be stomped into the dirt by Republicans. Or we can go the Cynthia Nixon route, and purge voters from the Democrats until you're sure that only people who will vote for pure candidates remain.
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Nov 11, 2018 20:56
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Teddybear posted:I think Ohio is falling victim to demographics; throughout the state but prominently in the southern half, young Ohioans are moving away to the coasts or to Chicago rather than stick around their towns and cities. We’ll have to wait and see how 2020 shakes out, but I’m similarly not optimistic about it. agreed, young people don't want to stay in the rustbelt states unless it's PA and they are moving to Philadelphia
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Nov 11, 2018 20:57
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Fallom posted:Dang, usually people have to be prodded a little to take off their mask and start talking about yachting and buying vacation homes Lol I mean the house is only $115,000 up on Houghton Lake. I look at it more of an investment. By the time I fix it up and in 15 years when the loan is paid off it can be what makes me able to retire comfortably. My boat is also a year 2000 small bowrider. All though I know it’s more than a lot have but I’m not exactly talking millions of dollars. But for everyone else thank you for the answers about the voting situation. I worry that locally it will be fairly Republican dominated, I’ll have to check districts and all that later. But unless I make that my permanent address I’m basically a felon is what I’m gathering? I’ll just keep voting in Visclosky and be disappointed we’ll never see another blue senator from Indiana with the way this state has gone since it went blue in 2008. Edit: also Michigan just legalized weed which should give a bump in property value maybe 5-6% alone. More if they open dispensary’s in the county. Harton fucked around with this message at 21:13 on Nov 11, 2018 |
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Nov 11, 2018 20:57
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Unoriginal Name posted:This thread is unreadable btw. Who's loving terrible idea was it to combine a fast moving current events thread with Demchat so I get to comb through 15 pages of rehashing the Democratic primary of 2016 to find a single Macron tweet that happened overnight. This argument is never finished, repeats the same concepts endlessly and needs to go elsewhere. Oh, no! How can democracy survive if you missed that Macron tweet overnight! Surely that tweet is way more important than being forced to tackle our country's not-so-gradual decline into fascism and how to prevent it, rather than abetting it, in the future.
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Nov 11, 2018 20:58
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key statistic/demography imo:
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Nov 11, 2018 20:58
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Fulchrum posted:And the idea that leftism can magically always beat fascism got shot in the head and left in a ditch by Bolsonaro. Uh so what you think should have happened in Brazil may I ask? I never saw that particular line of thought.
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Nov 11, 2018 21:01
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Typo posted:agreed, young people don't want to stay in the rustbelt states unless it's PA and they are moving to Philadelphia Pittsburgh is also having a nice revitalization. They've got a lot of green energy related jobs now plus excellent universities and are pretty effectively transitioning away from heavy industry after a decade or two of being not so great.
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Nov 11, 2018 21:03
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I’m not surprised at all that Hispanics are trending red in Florida, old Cuban Americans are still mad about JFK and younger ones will sell their souls to be white even though they’ll get played just the same as the brown people
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