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Staltran posted:I don't see how. Your brain is part of the physical world. And if you go psionic ascension, you will probably have some paionic pops who are materialist (it doesn't even decrease the attraction). I think it decreases materialist attraction indirectly by massively boosting spiritualist attraction?
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Nov 12, 2018 14:39
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So I ruined a save last night by misclicking and doing a monthly transfer of 1000 energy instead of a one time transfer. Too bad I was doing well that save.
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Nov 12, 2018 15:27
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https://twitter.com/martin_anward/status/1061952810445619202?s=21 That one consistent planet spawn is something I’ve been complaining about for a while (because they are placed after galaxy gen and have no modifiers) and it’s really nice to see this change. I play with Gulli’s planet mods so it’s always been annoying to have those planets stick out next to every homeworld. Thanks wiz.
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Nov 12, 2018 15:27
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Vargatron posted:So I ruined a save last night by misclicking and doing a monthly transfer of 1000 energy instead of a one time transfer. If you have the income to recover from it, spend all your energy so you can't send them the 1k. The trade deal will automatically end, but they will get a decaying negative opinion modifier for you flaking out.
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Nov 12, 2018 15:37
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Vargatron posted:So I ruined a save last night by misclicking and doing a monthly transfer of 1000 energy instead of a one time transfer. Can't afford payments? Try the time-honored strategy of declaring war!
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Nov 12, 2018 15:37
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Geemer posted:If you have the income to recover from it, spend all your energy so you can't send them the 1k. The trade deal will automatically end, but they will get a decaying negative opinion modifier for you flaking out. Oh poo poo, I didn't think about that. They were assholes anyway that I was trying to befriend so no loss there. isndl posted:Can't afford payments? Try the time-honored strategy of declaring war! I thought deals persisted through war.
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Nov 12, 2018 16:22
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I just started a new game with max habitable planets, max empires, max primitives, and 2.5x tech cost to see what would happen. July 2201: sneak attack by religious cult that managed to commandeer multiple corvettes. Definitely not expecting combat quite that early, even with the galaxy options. 
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Nov 12, 2018 17:11
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Breaking news: Gnop Hoxroz ousted from Space Senate after disastrous trade deal with Blorgian Dynasty.Strobe posted:I just started a new game with max habitable planets, max empires, max primitives, and 2.5x tech cost to see what would happen. Same thing happened to me two weeks after game start. I thought it added some nice story flair, because a few years later, the Old Gods chain started. Black Griffon fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Nov 12, 2018 |
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Nov 12, 2018 17:15
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Torrannor posted:How many religious/spiritual people do you know in real life? Baded on this post, I would guess zero. Yes, true. And doesn't have anything to do with what I said. At least I can't remember claiming all spiritualistic people always everywhere behave exactly like my most extreme examples.
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Nov 12, 2018 17:52
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Black Griffon posted:Same thing happened to me two weeks after game start. I thought it added some nice story flair, because a few years later, the Old Gods chain started. That's pretty awesome, but it's a completely random coincidence to have them both occur. There are a series of event chains that can start at the beginning of the game. Last I checked, there was a 10% chance for the Sublight Probes, 10% chance for the Cult, 10% chance for Mass Extinction, a 1% chance for the Rogue Scientist, and a  69% chance for nothing.The Old Gods chain is a completely unrelated anomaly chain that has a nice payoff for finishing.
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Nov 12, 2018 18:08
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Vargatron posted:I thought deals persisted through war. poo poo, you're right. Too used to other games where it does break trade agreements. 
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Nov 12, 2018 18:33
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Well it shouldn't take me more than 2 months to go bankrupt. I'm glad I can at least save that savegame.
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Nov 12, 2018 18:52
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Vargatron posted:I thought deals persisted through war. That seems like a bit of a big bug  "we have decided to exterminate you dear neighbours, but i hope this doesnt put a dampener on our 10 gold per month for space hentai deal"
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Nov 12, 2018 18:53
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kw0134 posted:Which is a little odd considering that it's this part that materialists specifically deny. Materialist is something you can easily hang a few non-mutually exclusive hats on, because it's the "Hooray science!" ethos. Is it sciencey? Great, slam it in there, it'll fit fine. Spiritualist (the Stellaris ethic, not the real world concept) is a weird mishmash of woo, religion, magic, and psychics, which aren't actually all the same thing. It's in the possibly impossible position of needing to cover every one of these simultaneously and also retain enough focus to make sense as a government ethic. And that's not even mentioning how the interplay of science and religion is such a scifi mainstay that making them mutually exclusive cuts out huge amounts of the Space Opera source material.
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Nov 12, 2018 19:06
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I interpret spritualism as space magic in the Destiny mold. No scientists will doubt that it exists but by definition it is outside of causality and impossible to measure or predict.
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Nov 12, 2018 19:15
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Dongattack posted:That seems like a bit of a big bug It's not a bug. Trade deals are suspended during wars but are re-instituted once the peace is signed.
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Nov 12, 2018 19:18
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Vengarr posted:It's not a bug. Trade deals are suspended during wars but are re-instituted once the peace is signed. Ah okay, that makes more sense. I thought they continued during the war too.
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Nov 12, 2018 19:20
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'As per our research agreement we have sent over various parts for study. Disregard the fact they have weapons attached and are shooting at you. This was all part of the deal'
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Nov 12, 2018 19:22
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Splicer posted:Pretty sure Ciaphas meant that it was still in use as late as WWII. Probably, yeah. But then I put his post into an online-webtranslator to make sure I understood him correctly and the translation it spit out claimed it was the other way around. So I went "Huh. Apparently I was wrong"
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Nov 12, 2018 19:26
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Rynoto posted:'As per our research agreement we have sent over various parts for study. Disregard the fact they have weapons attached and are shooting at you. This was all part of the deal' "It is crucial that you get to analyse them in action and close up"
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Nov 12, 2018 21:53
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Rynoto posted:'As per our research agreement we have sent over various parts for study. Disregard the fact they have weapons attached and are shooting at you. This was all part of the deal' 'As promised we are now sharing our weapon technology with you. Liberally.'
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Nov 12, 2018 22:07
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Materialist vs Spiritualist and the connection to psionics is a little nonsensical along in-universe designs, but it can be, because that's not it's purpose. What it does is provide very easy templates for making Your Space Empire, which is and has always been the point. Don't think of it along weird TVTropes-esque lines of categorization, think of it in lines of "what makes the game more fun and cool?" Space psychics vs robot empire is very fun and cool.
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Nov 12, 2018 22:13
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ProfessorCirno posted:Materialist vs Spiritualist and the connection to psionics is a little nonsensical along in-universe designs, but it can be, because that's not it's purpose. What it does is provide very easy templates for making Your Space Empire, which is and has always been the point. I mean spiritualists are wrong too, you can have psionic robots can't you?
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Nov 12, 2018 22:22
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Whether Materialists can accept psionics depends on whether the underlying basis for it eludes a systemic and empirically verifiable basis. Sure, you can prove that some religious aliens really seem to be able to read minds and poo poo, but you can't detect the reason why using any of your instruments and when you ask the smug fuckers for some insight they tell you to meditate on the lake spirit??? What the gently caress is that!!!!!!!
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Nov 12, 2018 22:27
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the biggest divide is that the spiritualists think synths are soulless robots and materialists dismiss that as bullshit, and say synths are the same as people. you can accepts psionics as real without this nonsense about 'souls'....after all, i'm a synth, and i feel fine!
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Nov 12, 2018 22:28
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:the biggest divide is that the spiritualists think synths are soulless robots and materialists dismiss that as bullshit, and say synths are the same as people. you can accepts psionics as real without this nonsense about 'souls'....after all, i'm a synth, and i feel fine!
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Nov 12, 2018 22:41
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Literally none of this matters because, again, the point was never to create the most realistic interpretation of an empire that values empirical science, the point was to great broad stereotypes to tell fun stories.GunnerJ posted:Whether Materialists can accept psionics depends on whether the underlying basis for it eludes a systemic and empirically verifiable basis. Sure, you can prove that some religious aliens really seem to be able to read minds and poo poo, but you can't detect the reason why using any of your instruments and when you ask the smug fuckers for some insight they tell you to meditate on the lake spirit??? What the gently caress is that!!!!!!! This also rules.
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Nov 12, 2018 23:09
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ProfessorCirno posted:Materialist vs Spiritualist and the connection to psionics is a little nonsensical along in-universe designs, but it can be, because that's not it's purpose. What it does is provide very easy templates for making Your Space Empire, which is and has always been the point.
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Nov 12, 2018 23:37
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ProfessorCirno posted:Literally none of this matters because, again, the point was never to create the most realistic interpretation of an empire that values empirical science, the point was to great broad stereotypes to tell fun stories.
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Nov 12, 2018 23:42
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It provides some basic political topography to the galaxy. It makes sure there's stress points between empires, just like the split between slave havers and egalitarians that provide some causes for wars in the later game. Galaxies need that or it turns into boring hugboxes or wars that are always the same. Also it helps tell the AI what to do on a bigger scale. "I'm a spritualist I should hate those materialists" is easy politics for an AI to understand.
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Nov 13, 2018 00:41
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Torrannor posted:I think it decreases materialist attraction indirectly by massively boosting spiritualist attraction? Sure, but it similarly decreases e.g. xenophile attraction too by that logic. GunnerJ posted:Whether Materialists can accept psionics depends on whether the underlying basis for it eludes a systemic and empirically verifiable basis. Sure, you can prove that some religious aliens really seem to be able to read minds and poo poo, but you can't detect the reason why using any of your instruments and when you ask the smug fuckers for some insight they tell you to meditate on the lake spirit??? What the gently caress is that!!!!!!! The existence of the psionic theory tech and it being a prerequisite for the ascension path heavily implies it does have a systemic and empirically verifiable basis. ProfessorCirno posted:Space psychics vs robot empire is very fun and cool.
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Nov 13, 2018 01:44
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I mean, if you're looking for more tolerant empires for both sides of this, you don't be a materialist or spiritualist. Then you are the "enlightened" empire that looks at both space magic or talking robots and goes "Yeah okay, that seems to be working out for you, maybe we'll do the same."
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Nov 13, 2018 01:50
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Staltran posted:The existence of the psionic theory tech and it being a prerequisite for the ascension path heavily implies it does have a systemic and empirically verifiable basis. Or researching the tech just entails a lot of meditating on the lake spirit by your society researcher.
GunnerJ fucked around with this message at 02:13 on Nov 13, 2018 |
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Nov 13, 2018 02:04
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"I dunno why those Spiritualists hate robots and hives-they're practically one themselves. Assholes barely question ANYTHING." The issue between them is more and deeper than just Psi. Science is generally speaking, based on questioning, and spiritualists(at least in the game) tend to make a consensus, then push it down everyone's throat. This has benefits and drawbacks. I mean, our own civilisation across the world has gone through times of the priesthood being the only font of knowledge left(because they were the only educated ones), to suppressing/declaring advancement and people wanting to study things as heresy. It's...a tricky thing. There are many ways to read a thing. Think of the Traditional trait. You get more unity. 'Tradition' has also been used to prevent experimentation. Not that that's a bad thing as such, these things become traditions because they worked, dammit. But times also change, and sometimes traditions need to change as well. Paradox has been careful not to attach too much to a thing, and in many ways they've been loosening up and allowing more. Bloodly fucked around with this message at 02:14 on Nov 13, 2018 |
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Nov 13, 2018 02:12
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Sorry Mardak Vol, I can't put you in colony ships because of you culture shock...I'll have to wait for next game to let you live. At least the end of that chain will not trigger until you control the system and reveal the planet. So I can cordon it off and prepare next time if it pops too early. Also I don't remember there being any hard locks preventing spiritualists from synth ascension, it just extremely fucks over your spiritualist faction and pops all of a sudden. For materialists I tend to play with mods but even in vanilla, I am sure you can still get psionics and the ascension path, it's just extremely badly weighted for you. Am I remembering this wrong?
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Nov 13, 2018 02:38
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HiKaizer posted:Sorry Mardak Vol, I can't put you in colony ships because of you culture shock...I'll have to wait for next game to let you live. At least the end of that chain will not trigger until you control the system and reveal the planet. So I can cordon it off and prepare next time if it pops too early. My current game has Spiritualist and is currently on the synth ascension path, yes. But you can't give full rights to robots.
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Nov 13, 2018 02:56
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Clarste posted:My current game has Spiritualist and is currently on the synth ascension path, yes. "Alright, priest-father, congratulations on your shiny new body! You subhuman piece of poo poo."
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Nov 13, 2018 04:11
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HiKaizer posted:For materialists I tend to play with mods but even in vanilla, I am sure you can still get psionics and the ascension path, it's just extremely badly weighted for you. Am I remembering this wrong? You need a scientist with the psionic trait as materialist which is extremely tough to get as materialist (there’s like one event or you luck out from allied races).
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Nov 13, 2018 04:23
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I want spirtualust rogue servitors. Am I my brother's keeper? That works for the exterminators too. Bar Ran Dun fucked around with this message at 04:27 on Nov 13, 2018 |
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Nov 13, 2018 04:24
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ulmont posted:You need a scientist with the psionic trait as materialist which is extremely tough to get as materialist (there’s like one event or you luck out from allied races). Maniac is also acceptable.
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Nov 13, 2018 05:15
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