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Mugaaz posted:Fiddly should be banned as a word. Every review now uses it as some vague nonspecific term to say I don't like this game without articulating why as some weird way of attacking something while simultaneously having a perfect defense because your non specific point can never be refuted. Some people use it when a game is complicated, or has too many tokens/counters, or has a lot of turn steps, or requires ability of rubbing 2 brain cells together, or has too many models, etc, etc. The word no longer has any specific meaning other than "didn't like". Fiddly is the board game equivalent of "game feel" it's completely subjective but something the audience can intuit. In a vacuum it doesn't mean much but through context clues and the knowledge I have of the reviewer, designer, and product I can intuit the reviewers intent through their argument. I would say "elegant" is the most useless word and that a "fiddly game" is more descriptive to me than an "inelegant game." Dead of Winter is a co-operative game where no one can co-operate. You have to gather resources to survive turn to turn but you actively spend these resources to take your turn. Acquiring more characters should give an advantage by having a wider variety of abilities but it actually makes the game harder because the action economy always stays the same while the number of zombies and resources to manage the crisis increases exponentially. It's a game that naturally reaches a bloated state just by playing. New components are constantly added but new options are not. Now add on top of that a random hidden victory condition and the possibility of a traitor that can tank the game instantly and without recourse. Normally a co-op game everyone wins together but Dead of Winter will have non-traitor victory conditions that actually run counter to the play of the game. You could be a "good guy" and still have something like "play really poorly" which may as well be "you're not going to win even if you win." al-azad fucked around with this message at 13:36 on Nov 13, 2018 |
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Nov 13, 2018 13:31
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Looked a few pages back, so if it came up I'm an idiot. Has anyone messed with Betrayal Legacy yet? The wife and I loved both Pandemic seasons, but neither one of us has ever tried vanilla betrayal. Is it something 2 extremely tired soon to be newborn havers would be able to play without losing all sense of what's going on and just giving up? Or should we just stick to light stuff like codenames until the kid turns 25 or something?
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Nov 13, 2018 14:32
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Mugaaz posted:Fiddly should be banned as a word. Every review now uses it as some vague nonspecific term to say I don't like this game without articulating why as some weird way of attacking something while simultaneously having a perfect defense because your non specific point can never be refuted. Some people use it when a game is complicated, or has too many tokens/counters, or has a lot of turn steps, or requires ability of rubbing 2 brain cells together, or has too many models, etc, etc. The word no longer has any specific meaning other than "didn't like". I disagree. Fiddly is just a shorthand way of expressing an excess of mechanisms and upkeep tasks that are necessary for the progress of a game but provide no distinct strategic decision making opportunities. Dead of Winter is mildly fiddly, while Sentinels is much more troublesome in that department. That's not to say that all games that would carry that moniker are necessarily bad. Games like Dungeon Petz and Through The Ages are good despite their fiddly nature because they compensate with a more engaging gameplay between those bits. Dead of Winter is just boring throughout your turn. Additional issues with DoW that haven't been mentioned: Depending on player count, it can be a long time before it gets back to your turn, with no meaningful things to do in that time. Tone-deaf writing that can place classic horror scenarios right next to dogs wielding sniper rifles. It says a lot about your game when Grave Robbers From Outer Space did something better than you. The Crossroads system that's supposed to be a central point of the game is a failure on so many levels. Again, too much variety in tone and writing, the events don't actually trigger often enough, and when they do the consequences of each choice are read prior to making a decision, with most of them having a "nothing happens" option which totally negates the point of having a "difficult choice" type thing in your game.
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Nov 13, 2018 14:37
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I can't imagine playing TTA irl, the resource mechanic is super cool but it sounds like a massive pain in the rear end, especially with the 1e corruption mechanic
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Nov 13, 2018 14:42
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Doji Sekushi posted:Looked a few pages back, so if it came up I'm an idiot. I haven't played the Legacy version of Betrayal yet, but I don't plan on it and here's why: The trick with Pandemic is that they started with a fairly solid game at the core and built from there. Less so with Season 2, and it kinda showed in the gameplay that was overly-swingy at times. Part of why things like Seafall and Charterstone fizzled is because the core gameplay just wasn't solid. "Vanilla" Betrayal is something I've played far too many games of in the past, and it's just a horrible mess. It is absolutely a game that I can see why people fall in love with it when they first play it, but it simply doesn't hold up to repeated use. Is it possible that they fixed the massive amounts of issues in the Betrayal version? Sure. Is it likely? Absolutely not. There's nothing wrong with Codenames, it's a wonderful and cool game. If you are looking for specific 2 player games with a little more strategy, or family games, or games with any number of friends, just ask for specific player counts and I'm sure the thread will offer lots of great solutions. Sadly, if you're looking for an "explore a spooky haunted house" type games, there aren't a whole lot of good alternatives. Maybe Mysterium might tick that box for you, might be worth checking out.
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Nov 13, 2018 14:45
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If an app version improves the player experience, then it's probably a fiddly game.
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Nov 13, 2018 14:49
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Big McHuge posted:I disagree. Fiddly is just a shorthand way of expressing an excess of mechanisms and upkeep tasks that are necessary for the progress of a game but provide no distinct strategic decision making. This was my understanding of their term, and my using it to describe this game just speaks to the weight of game I’m used to playing. Regarding Betrayal, I think it might be something I pick up in a year or two if it’s still available. The base game really is a mess, but it can be a fun experience. I just haven’t played it enough to warrant chasing after a lackluster Legacy game while Pandemic Season 2 is still unfinished. What’s the word on Discover: Lands Unknown? I’ve only recently become aware of its existence.
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Nov 13, 2018 15:09
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Minus1Minus1 posted:What’s the word on Discover: Lands Unknown? I’ve only recently become aware of its existence. The concept interests me, but the execution doesn't. You're basically buying one-third of the full game, and you don't know which third.
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Nov 13, 2018 15:11
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Jedit posted:The concept interests me, but the execution doesn't. You're basically buying one-third of the full game, and you don't know which third.
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Nov 13, 2018 15:13
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Tekopo posted:Can you elucidate on that? FFG got their hands on some like, randomization technology or something, between this and Keyforge. Basically, imagine playing a game like, I dunno, Arkham Horror, but only getting 2-3 of the districts and maybe 1 random GOO. Or I guess take like, booster packs, except it's a whole game. https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2018/8/13/discover-lands-unknown/ It $60 MSRP, naturally.
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Nov 13, 2018 15:18
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Big McHuge posted:When they do the consequences of each choice are read prior to making a decision, with most of them having a "nothing happens" option which totally negates the point of having a "difficult choice" type thing in your game. I basically NEVER go in for house-rules, but this is an obvious candidate for one. Make people make their decision based on the options but without knowing the consequences. Its a different player reading the actual card so it's easy to police. We've done a similar thing with the encounter cards in Eldritch Horror where whenever there is a skill test we don't outline the consequences until it's complete. That way the player chooses to spend rerolls or other abilities ignorant of whether its worthwhile. We also don't say what the other outcome would have been had they succeeded/failed. Makes things TONNES more enjoyable and immersive.
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Nov 13, 2018 15:25
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I meant more in terms of specifics, I've been seeing a few videos of the game itself, but wasn't aware that the games were basically half-finished due to the randomisation.
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Nov 13, 2018 15:26
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Doji Sekushi posted:Looked a few pages back, so if it came up I'm an idiot. A friend of mine is getting it so i will be playing it eventually. I'm not a huge fan of betrayal as anything but a light experience generator and would rather play almost anything else, though, so we'll see
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Nov 13, 2018 15:35
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I'm not sure Betrayal Legacy can be played with just two.
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Nov 13, 2018 15:42
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Yeah FFG advertises discover lands unknown as a unique game experience but it’s literally like if mage knight was sold with only half the random map tiles and encounter counters. Or Argent with only half the rooms and cards. It’s half the contents and makes the variable setup layout for you. I’m hoping L99 and other variable setup loving companies don’t follow suit.
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Nov 13, 2018 15:45
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quote:Because the theme constantly contradicts itself and doesn't make any sense. It's grimdark except for when it's a lighthearted comedy. Everybody is a horrible monster and it's every man for himself because you can never trust anybody, except for your team of survivors who are all a single unanimous hivemind that can teleport objects to each other across time and space. Betraying the group in a way specific to your victory condition isn't nearly as important as just waiting for when you get 2 turns in a row so you can just make noise and dump a bunch of trash at once. The Crossroads Cards™ require players to know the bizarre and random outcomes of their decisions in order to make their decisions. The artwork is extremely detailed but filled with blatant anatomical errors like missing limb sections and impossible contortions. It's trivial to just come up with a list of inarguable things wrong with the game that ruin the experience for everybody: casuals, people who actually care about games, lore-focused anti-gamers, and even invalids who can't play games without being drunk. Forget who posted this originally but I saved it because I like it. VVVV I basically Homer-And-Mr.T'd the game when it was in stock at my favourite store. There are tons of copies I'll grab it another time! Still tons of copies! Still tons of copies! Aaaaaand it's gone. Still smarting over it. FulsomFrank fucked around with this message at 15:56 on Nov 13, 2018 |
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Nov 13, 2018 15:47
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Just play John company ®
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Nov 13, 2018 15:51
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Discover Lands Unknown is... Fine. It's a perfectly serviceable exploration/survival game wrapped in a neat-in-concept idea that you're discovering the lands right from the moment you open the box. Sort of an expansion of the core conceit of the game to encompass the whole experience. Personally I think that's rad, but if you're the sort of completionist who desperately needs to have all of the content possible in a game the packaging will definitely rub you the wrong way. Game is complete in box, to be clear, but you don't know exactly which game you're getting. I like it, and it's a fun weird addition to my ever-growing boardgame wall.
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Nov 13, 2018 15:54
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Chill la Chill posted:Just play John company ® This poster gets it.
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Nov 13, 2018 16:09
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You don't actually get two turns in a row in Dead of Winter. That gets repeated a lot but it's not quite true. First player goes first in the round, then that player will go second in the next round, then third in the round after that, etc. There is always at least one other player's turn between any of yours. It doesn't change much in terms of the point being made but it's a weird thing to get repeatedly wrong when discussing details.
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Nov 13, 2018 16:52
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Mister Sinewave posted:You don't actually get two turns in a row in Dead of Winter. That gets repeated a lot but it's not quite true. First player goes first in the round, then that player will go second in the next round, then third in the round after that, etc. There is always at least one other player's turn between any of yours. Whoever goes last in the round goes first in the next round. They get a double turn.
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Nov 13, 2018 16:57
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1 2 3 4 4 1 2 3 3 4 1 2 2 3 4 1 1 2 3 4
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Nov 13, 2018 16:58
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Has anyone played 18Lilliput yet?
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Nov 13, 2018 17:14
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Fellis posted:Has anyone played 18Lilliput yet?
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Nov 13, 2018 17:21
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Just play John Company, it’s the best
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Nov 13, 2018 17:25
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FulsomFrank posted:Forget who posted this originally but I saved it because I like it. I keep forgetting it’s now out of print. Hopefully Wehrle goes through with the reprint!
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Nov 13, 2018 17:29
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Fellis posted:Has anyone played 18Lilliput yet? Andy Mesa sold his at the table he was playing it on at Sasquatch. He really disliked it and his description of it didn't sound good. I have it KS'd but I'm pretty doubtful about it after discussing the game with him.
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Nov 13, 2018 17:31
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The SVWAG guys ripped Discover Lands Unknown last week and it sounds exactly like I expected.
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Nov 13, 2018 17:51
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Straight White Shark posted:Whoever goes last in the round goes first in the next round. They get a double turn. You're right! What a goof on my part there 
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Nov 13, 2018 18:18
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While I haven't played Betrayal at Baldur's Gate, I've heard that's better than base Betrayal and Betrayal Legacy sort of builds on Baldur's Gate. In any case, I've played enough base Betrayal and one session of the expansion to know better than to spend my own money on it. Maybe one of my gamer friends will get it and ask if people want to do a campaign. I'm sort of worried that base Betrayal already had those certain scenarios that were confusing rules-wise, and adding more and more rules via a Legacy system on top of that can make things even more confusing. Just doing a quick look at the Betrayal Legacy list of threads on BGG already shows quite a few rules question threads.
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Nov 13, 2018 18:22
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Dead of Winter is Betrayal at the Gaming Table: Legacy Edition.
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Nov 13, 2018 18:47
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I played the prologue and first episode of Betrayal Legacy last night and really enjoyed it. I'm at the point where I flat-out refuse to play regular Betrayal, but I feel like the experience-generator aspect of it makes it a really good fit for a Legacy game. There is some very clever theme/mechanics conveyance, which I'm a sucker for. I especially appreciated the refinements to the rules and design (haven't played Baldur's Gate), especially the Traitor's Tome and Secrets of Survival. It still suffers from my biggest problem with Betrayal, player elimination, but even though I died early last night I was still invested due to the future ramifications. The house starts very small and gets bigger with each episode so it might start to drag more as we get further along. I'm definitely looking forward to continuing though.
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Nov 13, 2018 19:03
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Spirit Island's Jagged Earth kickstarter added a new item to it after backer demand rose: a custom Broken Token box to hold it all in. The insert already offered suffers from a lot of lid lift within the original box which is apparently a big deal to backers. It is $60 by itself. More than the whole expansion! I'm still gonna get it.
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Nov 13, 2018 19:43
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SettingSun posted:Spirit Island's Jagged Earth kickstarter added a new item to it after backer demand rose: a custom Broken Token box to hold it all in. The insert already offered suffers from a lot of lid lift within the original box which is apparently a big deal to backers. It is $60 by itself. More than the whole expansion! Does that box include the insert organizer?
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Nov 13, 2018 19:46
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Bottom Liner posted:Does that box include the insert organizer? Nope! The insert itself is a $39 add-on. Edit: They mention in the comments that they plan to develop a more affordable box after release. This whole campaign is weird. They're completely upfront about their costs and why and a lot of backers aren't having any of it. There just isn't a lot of incentive to back it. SettingSun fucked around with this message at 19:59 on Nov 13, 2018 |
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Nov 13, 2018 19:50
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SettingSun posted:Nope! The insert itself is a $39 add-on.  yeah that's real dumb$682,395 is a lot of money though, the game has some real love to do that well with such a lackluster campaign.
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Nov 13, 2018 20:06
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This is my number one played game, so it's taking me some real thought into how much I'm willing to put into it. The only discount to be had is getting the wooden tokens, which are reported to be $10 off MSRP. Everything else it at MSRP exactly, even when bundled into tiers. The only thing they're subsidizing is US shipping. EU backers are even responsible for VAT. There's nothing wrong with being so straightforward but it feels really off.
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Nov 13, 2018 20:17
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Miniature Market doing the first part of their Black Friday sale. So far nothing has really jumped out at me, however they have Pictomania for 10 dollars, and if you don't have that you probably should. Edit: and Tragedy Looper for 11 dollars.
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Nov 13, 2018 20:25
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Big McHuge posted:Miniature Market doing the first part of their Black Friday sale. So far nothing has really jumped out at me, however they have Pictomania for 10 dollars, and if you don't have that you probably should. If anyone is a LCG fan they're discounting their packs quite a bit. Dunno what's happening with the Game of Thrones LCG but their packs are discounted 80% to 3.00 each.
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Nov 13, 2018 20:29
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SettingSun posted:If anyone is a LCG fan they're discounting their packs quite a bit. Dunno what's happening with the Game of Thrones LCG but their packs are discounted 80% to 3.00 each. I saw that but aren't those for the old edition of the game? Edit: If not that is indeed a good deal. *gazes longingly over at my 3 core sets that will never get used because it didn't catch on with my GF* Big McHuge fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Nov 13, 2018 |
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Nov 13, 2018 20:30
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