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Murderball posted:https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3599364 I still think this thread should be "Wait until we’re black diamond."
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Nov 13, 2018 22:08
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Motronic posted:The money she still owes and the time they have spent to deal with it. I have no doubt that the inhouse legal team will probably prosecute just to get their metrics up, but in the end the "damages" they're trying to recoup will probably be dwarfed by the legal feels they'll rack up. Mom will probably have to go into debt and daughter will end up having to bail her out even worse. Maybe you work in the industry and can tell me otherwise, but I feel like OP's mom incidence in the identify theft epidemic is trivial compared to that of organized crime.
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Nov 13, 2018 22:23
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Ur Getting Fatter posted:I have no doubt that the inhouse legal team will probably prosecute just to get their metrics up, but in the end the "damages" they're trying to recoup will probably be dwarfed by the legal feels they'll rack up. Mom will probably have to go into debt and daughter will end up having to bail her out even worse. What's the point of prosecuting crime unless it's the worst crime
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Nov 13, 2018 22:34
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On the plus side all the friends and family will talk about what happened and somewhere a relation will look at her daughter's credit card mistakenly mailed to the parent's house and think, "maybe...not." My wife's family has a poo poo ton of bad financial habits that are enabled by no one ever addressing the issue. This addresses the issue in a very blunt and permanent way. Her mother will never steal another family member's identity and if she can't see where she went wrong then there's no helping her. Also she's not going to jail. Back when I worked in banking people performing literal check fraud weren't often prosecuted even when funds weren't recovered. No one's going to put a middle-aged woman in jail for this.
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Nov 13, 2018 22:37
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Murderball posted:https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3599364 It looks like they did! First time this thread has generated a title change for another?
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Nov 14, 2018 00:07
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Murderball posted:https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3599364 You're the best.
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Nov 14, 2018 00:20
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Ur Getting Fatter posted:I have no doubt that the inhouse legal team will probably prosecute just to get their metrics up, but in the end the "damages" they're trying to recoup will probably be dwarfed by the legal feels they'll rack up. Mom will probably have to go into debt and daughter will end up having to bail her out even worse. Explain again why the daughter is obligated to help her mom.
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Nov 14, 2018 00:35
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Yeah, that’s a choice an adult can make for themselves.
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Nov 14, 2018 00:36
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No obligation, sure, but who's gonna let their own mother starve to death for lying & lowering their credit score. Sucks that mom's getting prosecuted, and it's not going to do the daughter (and her marriage) any favors when she feels some responsibility (which she already does!) and wants to help mom out.
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Nov 14, 2018 00:48
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therobit posted:I have never heard of a security fee. While I honestly don't believe that free checking should even exist, I bet you can find somewhere that is offering a product you can get for free. IME there are good banks and bad credit unions out there, and I wouldn't even necessarily give a blanket statement that one is better than the other. It depends on what features and products you require, and what is available ti you locally. I do find that smaller institutions can be a compliance and operations nightmare. If you never have a problem with a missing deposit, loan interest or billing getting messed up, or someone sending your mortgage details to your brother's ex wife, then you probably will not notice that. If it does happen then a small institution can be really awful to deal with, or they can be easy to deal with depending on who you are dealing with and if they have a robust process in place to detect and fix the problem. In a lot of cases these are things that would be a lot less likely to have happened in the first place at a bigger company due the controls they have. Why shouldn't free checking exist?
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Nov 14, 2018 00:53
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e: removed dumb attempt at "humour"
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Nov 14, 2018 01:01
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Raldikuk posted:Why shouldn't free checking exist? Because free checking with no upfront conditions is a loss leader that gets paid for by overdraft fees charged to the poor and financially irresponsible, mostly. Servicing accounts costs money, and that has to come from somewhere. If you have a minimum balance requirement or a direct deposit requirement then this can be offset by other factors, but free checking isn't free. Someone will pay. That's why everyone instituted additional requirements to make your account free after the CARD act passed.
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Nov 14, 2018 01:01
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therobit which bank are you a mid level manager at?
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Nov 14, 2018 01:02
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therobit posted:Because free checking with no upfront conditions is a loss leader that gets paid for by overdraft fees charged to the poor and financially irresponsible, mostly. Servicing accounts costs money, and that has to come from somewhere. If you have a minimum balance requirement or a direct deposit requirement then this can be offset by other factors, but free checking isn't free. Someone will pay. That's why everyone instituted additional requirements to make your account free after the CARD act passed. Ok, so now explain why I get 0.001% interest on my savings account, but if I want a personal loan I have to pay 9%. Where does the difference go?
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Nov 14, 2018 01:03
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Why you gotta add "mid level" to try and make it a dig
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Nov 14, 2018 01:03
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:Why you gotta add "mid level" to try and make it a dig Because executives at banks are smart enough to use credit unions. Calling free checking the "loss leader" (lol) that has be be paid for elsewhere reveals he doesn't know much about how banks make money, just sort of swallowing the bullshit that gets passed down from on high.
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Nov 14, 2018 01:06
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therobit posted:Because free checking with no upfront conditions is a loss leader that gets paid for by overdraft fees charged to the poor and financially irresponsible, mostly. Servicing accounts costs money, and that has to come from somewhere. If you have a minimum balance requirement or a direct deposit requirement then this can be offset by other factors, but free checking isn't free. Someone will pay. That's why everyone instituted additional requirements to make your account free after the CARD act passed. The fees associated with it can be usurious for sure. But as someone who was super poor in the past without free checking I would have had to rely on check cashing places and similar which charge even more outrageous fees and they do so for normal stuff. Hypothetically at least someone could use the free account and never incur a charge which isn't the case with most accounts that have a fee because the direct deposit requirements or minimum average daily balance are much too high to meet and it isn't like any of the services offered to justify that fee are very useful for poorer folk. And of course those same fees that gently caress over free checking customers exist with the premium versions so they'll probably just pay more in fees without a "free" option.
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Nov 14, 2018 01:11
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therobit posted:That's why everyone instituted additional requirements to make your account free after the CARD act passed. Free checking with my credit union is literally free, absolutely zero strings attached. No account fees or minimums, no direct deposit or transaction requirements, nothing. And there's only one type of checking account that offers all the services you would expect, none of this tiered poo poo. Big retail banks are trash that play bullshit games, don't do business with them. Edit: actually they do have a higher "tier" of account... that increases your interest rate and gives you out of network ATM refunds if you make at least one direct deposit per month... still with no other fees or minimums Guinness fucked around with this message at 01:19 on Nov 14, 2018 |
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Nov 14, 2018 01:16
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Pryor on Fire posted:Because executives at banks are smart enough to use credit unions. I'm probably (as always) off base, but it didn't look like robit was saying that free checking is THE loss leader/how banks made money. Looked more like he was saying that 1. Servicing checking accounts costs the bank money 2. The bank doesn't want to lose money on checking accounts 3. Banks add fees to checking accounts that disproportionately target vulnerable populations 3a. It is bad to disproportionately target vulnerable populations I don't want to put words in his mouth though. I'll join you for your sneer & jeer if I'm wrong.
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Nov 14, 2018 01:20
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Pryor on Fire posted:therobit which bank are you a mid level manager at? Yes I work for a bank. I make no secret of it. Weatherman posted:Ok, so now explain why I get 0.001% interest on my savings account, but if I want a personal loan I have to pay 9%. Where does the difference go? Depending on how much is in your account, the answer can be either administering your account or profit. I'm not here to whine about the poor banks, but I think the free checking product is dumb. GoGoGadgetChris posted:I'm probably (as always) off base, but it didn't look like robit was saying that free checking is THE loss leader/how banks made money. Looked more like he was saying that Yeah, that's what I was getting at. We make income from fees and from interest spread, but on a checking account without any money in it there is no spread income, and it is actually costing money to have it on the books. Which is fine as long as long as we're not telling people it's a free account, but secretly the plan is to charge so much in overdraft fees that we are looking at low income neighborhoods as a cash cow.
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Nov 14, 2018 01:45
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Well I think banks are dumb which is why I stick with credit unions and their dumb free checking accounts
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Nov 14, 2018 01:54
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Having other people subsidise my free checking account is GWM though.
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Nov 14, 2018 02:07
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therobit posted:Yes I work for a bank. I make no secret of it. Credit unions and some smaller banks manage to have free accounts without loving over the poor. It's not like the two have to go hand in hand. It just turns out that banks that are looking to maximize profits make more money when they gently caress the poor, and they don't care.
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Nov 14, 2018 02:08
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Begath posted:Another repeat of a common issue we see in this thread, I absolutely report card fraud to the police if it's over $1500 and not in a large city. Nobody expects the Chicago PD to have time to investigate less than like a $50k carder ring but Harvard, IL would.
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Nov 14, 2018 02:16
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Inept posted:Credit unions and some smaller banks manage to have free accounts without loving over the poor. It's not like the two have to go hand in hand. It just turns out that banks that are looking to maximize profits make more money when they gently caress the poor, and they don't care. Are your saying that have no overdraft fees or what? Having worked at a credit union before, the one I worked at was actually worse than the large bank I work for now ever was. Some credit unions are still small organizations set up for mutual benefit of thier membership, but many of them behave very similarly to banks and exist to enrich their executives.
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Nov 14, 2018 02:17
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therobit posted:secretly the plan is to charge so much in overdraft fees that we are looking at low income neighborhoods as a cash cow. Sure, but that would be the plan if there was a fee for chequing accounts, too. You don’t have to twist a bank’s arm to get them to put predatory, regressive fees in place.
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Nov 14, 2018 02:18
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therobit posted:Are your saying that have no overdraft fees or what? My credit union waives the first two days of overdraft fees each year. After that, they cost $0.50. You made it sound like free checking required banks to make up the money in ways that gently caress over the poor. But they don't have to do it that way. They are fine with it though because it makes them money.
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Nov 14, 2018 02:21
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Inept posted:Credit unions and some smaller banks manage to have free accounts without loving over the poor. It's not like the two have to go hand in hand. It just turns out that banks that are looking to maximize profits make more money when they gently caress the poor, and they don't care. Credit unions still charge $30 for a return check or NSF fee. The fact they’re non-profit means you get free ATM’s and some waived charges here and there, but they’re still making that revenue. How banks make money is a tricky thing, but the advent of free checking and low interest rates meant they didn’t have steady fee income and now both commercial banks and credit unions rely more on incidental charges.
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Nov 14, 2018 02:24
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Inept posted:My credit union waives the first two days of overdraft fees each year. After that, they cost $0.50. How much does a returned item cost?
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Nov 14, 2018 02:27
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therobit posted:Are your saying that have no overdraft fees or what? I'm sorry you are getting attacked by financially ignorant people. Obviously, financial institutions need to pay people to work for them to process transactions (and/or write the software to do so), so unless the government subsidizes this entirely in some manner, it's only a question of the details of how the money flows to the bank/credit union. Smart people can evaluate the differences between institutions to their own benefit, while financially illiterate people tend to get hosed over. I don't think we should subsidize financial illiteracy (especially given this is the bad with money thread).
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Nov 14, 2018 02:32
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therobit posted:Are your saying that have no overdraft fees or what? What premium checking account has no fees though? They have the same exact fees that will be triggered except the additional bonus of a fee that can't be avoided (the maintenance fee). I don't really see how it would be less predatory to make people pay for the honor of having a checking account while having all of the same penalties for when they gently caress up (eg overdraft fees, return check fees, et al). Maybe your point is that without any free checking accounts the bank could eliminate fees? Or maybe reduce them at least? That itself is absurd because there's no reason for a bank not to charge the same fees unless it were actually illegal for them to do so; especially given the fact that various fees are usually in the top 3 revenue line items for banks; and it isn't like charging $100/year is going to magically make it so someone who is living paycheck to paycheck will never overdraft (and I would actually love to see how many more overdrafts would be assessed because of the fee itself coming through at an inopportune time).
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Nov 14, 2018 02:35
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Don’t pretty much all big banks charge for checking accounts while also loving people over with fees?
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Nov 14, 2018 02:36
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Wolfy posted:Don’t pretty much all big banks charge for checking accounts while also loving people over with fees? Only if your relationship with them tends to cost them money.
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Nov 14, 2018 02:41
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Ur Getting Fatter posted:in the end the "damages" they're trying to recoup will probably be dwarfed by the legal feels they'll rack up. What's the problem here? Do you think you shouldn't have civil liability for felonies? Ur Getting Fatter posted:Mom will probably have to go into debt and daughter will end up having to bail her out even worse. This outcome is speculative and independent of criminal liability. I hope she doesn't end up feeling she needs to do this, but it's not really the point. Ur Getting Fatter posted:Maybe you work in the industry and can tell me otherwise, but I feel like OP's mom incidence in the identify theft epidemic is trivial compared to that of organized crime. In incidence or dollars? Because I'm pretty sure it's way bigger in incidence. And it's a different crime (this is often a component) that is prosecuted differently. That may not be your point, but in mechanics it's definitely different. I don't understand your point. At all. Are you saying there is a cutoff in dollars or family relationship where this should not be a crime or still is a crime but shouldn't be prosecured?
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Nov 14, 2018 02:47
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I have used Fidelity's checking account for a decade now and never paid a fee
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Nov 14, 2018 02:49
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Banks are like in-laws. Nice to have a good relationship with yours, but you don't have to love them.
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Nov 14, 2018 02:51
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FAUXTON posted:How much does a returned item cost? $5 Hire 2 year old daughter to put $$ into an IRA for her quote:Can I hire my daughter as a "model" for my small business to give her income to open a Roth ira? I would put a picture of her somewhere on my website to legitimize it. The business makes 20-25k as a side deal. Was thinking of paying her 2000. We already contribute quite a bit to her 529. Wife and I are maxing out 401ks, 403bs, and iras. Yep $2k for a photo of your kid on your website screams necessary and reasonable to the IRS
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Nov 14, 2018 02:55
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Inept posted:Hire 2 year old daughter to put $$ into an IRA for her Kudos to this guy for his effort. I really need to figure out how best to legally funnel income to the kids for maximum tax avoidance.
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Nov 14, 2018 02:59
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Droo posted:I have used Fidelity's checking account for a decade now and never paid a fee Fidelity as in the investment/brokerage company? Because my Schwab checking account is great and doesn’t charge a monthly fee either. Granted they’re ‘banking’ on me keeping a large balance in a trading accounts. I don’t, so they’re losing money on me, but I guess it works with most of their customers. Krispy Wafer fucked around with this message at 03:19 on Nov 14, 2018 |
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Nov 14, 2018 03:04
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Wolfy posted:Don’t pretty much all big banks charge for checking accounts while also loving people over with fees? Anyone with a job can get a checking account from the big banks that has no monthly fees, and won't ever pay a dime unless you overdraw it. It's been this way for like 20 years.
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Nov 14, 2018 03:07
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