UKMT November 2018: Sky Brexit Poll - 1488 people polled today

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT November 2018: Sky Brexit Poll - 1488 people polled today

«‹›301 »

Firos: Apr 30, 2007; Staying abreast of the latest developments in jam communism

Lady Demelza posted:

I have no idea what is happening but everyone on Twitter seems to hate it.

Thread title.

# ? Nov 13, 2018 23:15

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Jun 13, 2024 06:00

forkboy84: Jun 13, 2012; Corgis love bread. And Puro

At the end of this process I'd like someone from the Office of National Statistics to calculate how many manhours the government has wasted on "deals" that everyone knows the EU won't accept, because it'd be staggering I'd imagine.

# ? Nov 13, 2018 23:15

KayTee: May 5, 2012; Whachoodoin?

OwlFancier posted:

It.

It's happening.

Tories are out of time and it looks to be coming to a head, but you can turn your phone back off if you'd rather not watch the process. Nothing you can do about it either way.

Righto. I'll carry on enjoying the local flavour...

http://imgur.com/a/s5RoadZ

# ? Nov 13, 2018 23:21

UnlimitedSpessmans: Jul 31, 2015

will the vote on the deal be tomorrow morning?

# ? Nov 13, 2018 23:28

Firos: Apr 30, 2007; Staying abreast of the latest developments in jam communism

nah man it's not even been agreed in the cabinet yet

# ? Nov 13, 2018 23:36

Darth Walrus: Feb 13, 2012

Firos posted:

nah man it's not even been agreed in the cabinet yet

I mean, I'm really not sure it's been agreed with the EU yet.

# ? Nov 13, 2018 23:39

Looke: Aug 2, 2013

Lol

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ? Nov 13, 2018 23:40

Ash Crimson: Apr 4, 2010

kustomkarkommando posted:

The leaked details is a UK wide customs union light with some kind of annex relating to NI rolled into the general deal relating to maintenance of single market regulations in NI as a broad backstop (that again only kicks in after the transition if no new trading deal can be negotiated)

What does this actually mean?

# ? Nov 13, 2018 23:55

baka kaba: Jul 19, 2003; PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

also lol to see the fubpees pivoting from WHY ARENT YOU DOING SOMETHING JEREMY to HE CANT DO ANYTHING NOT SINCE HE VOTED FOR ARTICLE 50

# ? Nov 13, 2018 23:56

Spangly A: May 14, 2009; God help you if ever you're caught on these shores

A man's ambition must indeed be small
To write his name upon a shithouse wall

Ash Crimson posted:

What does this actually mean?

it means norway and if anyone fucks with norway then the dup will be forced by their own rhetoric to bring down the government or face electoral annihilation

if May can eradicate both the conservative party and the DUP while guaranteeing 2 generations of non-stop socialist Labour government then in the very long run she won't actually be the worst PM

still killed more people than some wars, though

# ? Nov 14, 2018 00:05

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

kustomkarkommando posted:

Yes that's what's been leaked

Hasn't the EU already rejected that?

Thought they didn't want a UK wide backstop because it's basically a cop out for the UK and were only interested in a NI specific one?

# ? Nov 14, 2018 00:09

Josef bugman: Nov 17, 2011; Pictured: Poster prepares to celebrate Holy Communion (probablY)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund

Spangly A posted:

if May can eradicate both the conservative party and the DUP while guaranteeing 2 generations of non-stop socialist Labour government then in the very long run she won't actually be the worst PM

The internationale intensifies

# ? Nov 14, 2018 00:13

Ash Crimson: Apr 4, 2010

Spangly A posted:

it means norway and if anyone fucks with norway then the dup will be forced by their own rhetoric to bring down the government or face electoral annihilation

if May can eradicate both the conservative party and the DUP while guaranteeing 2 generations of non-stop socialist Labour government then in the very long run she won't actually be the worst PM

Not trying to be negative but the latter part actually happening sounds a bit over optimistic

# ? Nov 14, 2018 00:18

Sanitary Naptime: May 29, 2006; MIWK!

Ash Crimson posted:

Not trying to be negative but the latter part actually happening sounds a bit over optimistic

Good things aren�t possible, says centrist centristly

# ? Nov 14, 2018 00:21

Fans: Jun 27, 2013; A reptile dysfunction

Arlene Foster loving up so badly she reunifies Ireland will be my one comfort if this all goes to poo poo.

# ? Nov 14, 2018 00:22

Spangly A: May 14, 2009; God help you if ever you're caught on these shores

A man's ambition must indeed be small
To write his name upon a shithouse wall

Ash Crimson posted:

Not trying to be negative but the latter part actually happening sounds a bit over optimistic

have you heard the opinions of the young people?

when the boomers die I'll be surprised if we don't bring back the death penalty for rwb (rich while brexit). I will be campaigning to kill people as soon as I reckon there are enough votes in it that it becomes hard to ignore.

# ? Nov 14, 2018 00:25

Spangly A: May 14, 2009; God help you if ever you're caught on these shores

A man's ambition must indeed be small
To write his name upon a shithouse wall

smh if you don't check the demographics every month to update your bloodlust calender

# ? Nov 14, 2018 00:26

Angepain: Jul 13, 2012; what keeps happening to my clothes

Firos posted:

Thread title.

do we even need to include "on Twitter"

# ? Nov 14, 2018 00:26

RabidWeasel: Aug 4, 2007; Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!

OwlFancier posted:

Hasn't the EU already rejected that?

Thought they didn't want a UK wide backstop because it's basically a cop out for the UK and were only interested in a NI specific one?

As far as I remember they said this originally then strongly suggested that it was one of the places they were willing to compromise on, presumably because letting us be a slightly shittier Norway for a while isn't too bad for them.

I might be remembering this totally wrong obviously.

# ? Nov 14, 2018 00:27

Communist Thoughts: Jan 7, 2008; Our war against free speech cannot end until we silence this bronze beast!

Shall be nice if this brings everything to a head and crashes the government and brexit but we have heard that a few times alread

Touch wood tho

# ? Nov 14, 2018 00:27

Sanitary Naptime: May 29, 2006; MIWK!

Capital(ist) punishment :getin:

# ? Nov 14, 2018 00:27

kustomkarkommando: Oct 22, 2012

OwlFancier posted:

Hasn't the EU already rejected that?

Thought they didn't want a UK wide backstop because it's basically a cop out for the UK and were only interested in a NI specific one?

They did, but apparently there's been a budge on that front according to what's being reported as part of the effort to "de-dramatise" the backstop.

# ? Nov 14, 2018 00:27

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

Well here's hoping the tories manage to gently caress themselves up and eat each other before the date.

# ? Nov 14, 2018 00:32

Communist Thoughts: Jan 7, 2008; Our war against free speech cannot end until we silence this bronze beast!

The backstop is essentially staying in the customs union and stuff right?

So a UK wide backstop is the BrINO solution then?

# ? Nov 14, 2018 00:32

Sanitary Naptime: May 29, 2006; MIWK!

Depending on the triggers and timings on the backstop it�s effectively BriNO yeah.

Kicking the can down the road again is the most obvious solution to come from this shambling government of the undead.

# ? Nov 14, 2018 00:35

Rarity: Oct 21, 2010; ~*4 LIFE*~

Tonight I found out the girl I've been crushing out thinks May is the most determined politician in the country and that Brexit wasn't David Cameron's fault :negative:

# ? Nov 14, 2018 00:38

kustomkarkommando: Oct 22, 2012

Hentai Jihadist posted:

The backstop is essentially staying in the customs union and stuff right?

So a UK wide backstop is the BrINO solution then?

Staying in the customs union if no agreed new trading relationship can be negotiated by 2021 but leaving the single market, with NI remaining tied to single market regulations as they are created with the UK tacked to "level playing field" provisions that stop any regression from current environmental standards and specifically implementing parallel state aid and competition rules mirroring developments within the EU.

Broadly pieced together from whats been chatted about.

# ? Nov 14, 2018 00:39

ShaneMacGowansTeeth: May 22, 2007; I think this is it... I think this is how it ends

Rarity posted:

Tonight I found out the girl I've been crushing out thinks May is the most determined politician in the country and that Brexit wasn't David Cameron's fault

I'm sorry for your loss

# ? Nov 14, 2018 00:40

Angepain: Jul 13, 2012; what keeps happening to my clothes

It does take a lot of determination to keep going for a solid three years or so without admitting you've been making one continuous massive fuckup the whole time, yes

# ? Nov 14, 2018 00:42

Bardeh: Dec 2, 2004; Fun Shoe

Robert Peston has written up what we know about the deal so far, and if you're like me and struggle to understand all this backstop stuff, it's fairly good:

https://www.facebook.com/pestonitv/posts/2209151979409535

TL;DR: we're hosed, no deal Brexit ahoy because there is simply no way a deal is getting through Parliament

quote:

On the controversial - some would say "life or death" - question of how to keep open the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, the backstop, this is what I am told has been agreed.

It is what's described in Brussels as the "swimming pool" approach - in other words it has a shallow end and a deep end, when it comes to measures aimed at making sure trade is completely frictionless between NI and the ROI, and fairly frictionless between Great Britain and the EU27.

GB would be in the shallow end, NI in the deep.

Or to be more precise, the whole of the UK would stay in the customs union if a long-term trading relationship between the UK and EU isn't negotiated and implemented by the end of 2020 - which no one (with the possible exception of the PM) expects it to be.

In fact most EU politicians expect the backstop to be the reality of our trading relationship with the EU for many years.

But - and this is reassuring for May, and perhaps for most in the Cabinet - EU leaders don't really like this version of the backstop, which is largely May's preferred model of how to keep open that border in Ireland (in that sense it can be seen as a victory for her in the negotiations).

So there will be an option after the UK leaves the EU next March, during the 21 month transition period, to negotiate some other arrangement that would have the same effect as the backstop (and yes I know this is confusing - but probably what mostly matters is that only the backstop will be legally binding, and that is what will upset many of her MPs).

But in addition to being in the customs union, Northern Ireland would also remain in much of the single market, that part of it pertaining to goods: Northern Ireland alone would be forced to follow all EU directive and laws in relation to goods flowing back and forth between NI and the ROI.

Now that will infuriate the DUP, whose 10 MPs sustain Theresa May and the Conservative Party, because they will see it as doing what they say the PM promised never to do, namely introduce a new border between GB and NI in the middle of the Irish Sea; it would, they fear, increase the danger of a fragmentation of the nations of the UK.

The EU will work hard to reassure Northern Ireland's unionist politicians that there would not be a border in the Irish Sea in any meaningful sense.

But this aspect of the backstop - the deep end for Northern Ireland - could well undermine the agreement between the DUP and the Conservative Party for the DUP to back all important government legislation, and possibly wreck it, throwing into jeopardy the PM's ability to govern.

And if the DUP votes with Labour and hardcore Tory Brexiters AND hardcore Tory Remainers against her Brexit deal - which is an anti-May coalition I anticipate - the PM would lose the "meaningful vote" on the deal by a large margin.

The point is that many of May's Brexiter MPs will hate that GB even in the shallow end will be forced to follow EU rules on competition, the environment, goods standards and employee protection - because the EU is insisting that if the UK derives the benefit of being in the customs union, it has to compete on a "level playing" field. And for as long as the UK is in that customs union, it will be prohibited from doing trade deals with non EU countries.

Many Remainers share the Brexiters' concern that May's version of Brexit would see the UK as a relatively powerless taker of EU rules.

As I write, I do not know whether the PM will get this proposal through her Cabinet. But even if she does, I have literally no idea how she would get it through parliament.

For the avoidance of doubt, what's finally been negotiated is much less toxic to May than the EU's original proposal of Northern Ireland alone remaining in the customs union and the single market. But it will still upset many of the MPs who sustain her in power.

To state the obvious, much will hinge on how and whether the UK could get out of the backstop - about which we will presumably learn all tomorrow.

# ? Nov 14, 2018 00:57

KayTee: May 5, 2012; Whachoodoin?

Rarity posted:

Tonight I found out the girl I've been crushing out thinks May is the most determined politician in the country and that Brexit wasn't David Cameron's fault

It's good that you uncovered and have successfully understood the problems before committing to the total undertaking. There is a metaphor or simile here but I'm too drunk to fully expand upon it.

# ? Nov 14, 2018 00:59

ShaneMacGowansTeeth: May 22, 2007; I think this is it... I think this is how it ends

KayTee posted:

It's good that you uncovered and have successfully understood the problems before committing to the total undertaking. There is a metaphor or simile here but I'm too drunk to fully expand upon it.

I mean, Rarity's crush has a point in that the Maybot is the most determined politician ever, but that determination is to see Britain drive off a cliff into a skip full of burning poo poo

# ? Nov 14, 2018 01:03

Communist Thoughts: Jan 7, 2008; Our war against free speech cannot end until we silence this bronze beast!

I don't know if we know all the details yet but it does sound like this is soft brexit being firmly rejected by everyone.
Or, actually, if Iv got that wrong why exactly do the non hardcore brexiteers hate it so much too?

That leaves no deal or cancel brexit and I've always kinda thought no deal is much more likely of the two.

# ? Nov 14, 2018 01:05

Communist Thoughts: Jan 7, 2008; Our war against free speech cannot end until we silence this bronze beast!

Rarity posted:

Tonight I found out the girl I've been crushing out thinks May is the most determined politician in the country and that Brexit wasn't David Cameron's fault

Good that you found out now.

I once fancied a woman at uni who invited me back to her place for essentially Netflix and chill. I noticed on her shelves she had LotR Warhammer so was like hell yeah let's do this.

She then put on that racist puppet guy with the suicide bomber puppet.

They say you only regret the things you don't do but I don't regret getting up and physically running out of her flat into the night.

# ? Nov 14, 2018 01:08

baka kaba: Jul 19, 2003; PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

Bardeh posted:

Robert Peston has written up what we know about the deal so far, and if you're like me and struggle to understand all this backstop stuff, it's fairly good:

"The EU will work hard to reassure Northern Ireland's unionist politicians that there would not be a border in the Irish Sea in any meaningful sense."

will they?

I mean even assuming they want to smooth things over just to get a deal done
surely the whole point is that there is a meaningful dividing line with one set of rules on one side and a different set on the other, with all the bureaucracy involved in maintaining that

# ? Nov 14, 2018 01:15

Bardeh: Dec 2, 2004; Fun Shoe

"Arlene, it'll be under the sea and there won't even be a sign, so when you think about it, will there really be a border at all?"

# ? Nov 14, 2018 01:20

Regarde Aduck: Oct 19, 2012; c l o u d k i t t e n; Grimey Drawer

Hentai Jihadist posted:

I don't know if we know all the details yet but it does sound like this is soft brexit being firmly rejected by everyone.
Or, actually, if Iv got that wrong why exactly do the non hardcore brexiteers hate it so much too?

That leaves no deal or cancel brexit and I've always kinda thought no deal is much more likely of the two.

I don't think the "non hardcore brexiteers" do hate it that much. It's that non hardcore brexiteers are a rare bunch. The main camps seem to be "NEVER BREXIT" and "FULL BREXIT". It makes sense because brexit is so stupid that ok people don't want to do it and the other side are disaster capitalists that want it to be as crippling as possible.

# ? Nov 14, 2018 01:21

jaete: Jun 21, 2009; Nap Ghost

BRING ON THE BREXITS, MY BODY IS READY

seriously though i want to sleep can't the government/country/conservative party/all of reality collapse already

Ok some more thoughts: it seems to me that the least harmful result of all this poo poo would be for May's dumb bullshit deal to be approved, so that we'd get Brexit in name only: pointless and harmful but could be much worse. However, since this is the dumbest timeline and also hellworld, we will probably instead get no deal. Everyone and their dog can see that May's deal is a mixture of poo poo and piss so what's the point; in parliament there is no majority of any kind for anything at all - not this deal, not any other deal; there's also no time.

jaete fucked around with this message at 01:33 on Nov 14, 2018

# ? Nov 14, 2018 01:29

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

If the deal gets voted down I don't know what may would stand to gain from not calling a general election.

It's her deal, she will have been humiliated and her entire platform since the referendum will be null and void.

The only people that benefit are the ERG lot and she hates them afaik?

I mean, what did the last PM do when their personal glory stunt backfired on them? It's possible she hands the government over to someone else but calling a GE would be much more spiteful.

OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 01:53 on Nov 14, 2018

# ? Nov 14, 2018 01:43

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Jun 13, 2024 06:00

ShaneMacGowansTeeth: May 22, 2007; I think this is it... I think this is how it ends

Is there a possibility she rescinds article 50 on the premise of... no, I can't even finish that sentence

# ? Nov 14, 2018 01:53

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT November 2018: Sky Brexit Poll - 1488 people polled today

«‹›301 »