|
Harik posted:Concrete proposal: I'm gonna stop you right here where you're proposing the Number Of The Beast from Revelation
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 00:01
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 06:59 |
|
|
Harik posted:*sorta make semi-autos harder to buy* What exactly would making semi autos slightly harder to get change about the landscape of gun violence in America? Domestic violence would still have the same end result with a shotgun or with a rifle. When it comes to mass shootings ,psychos that want to slaughter innocents would either use a shotgun, steal a semi auto from family or go through the hoops in order to buy them legally. We've had several mass shooters in Canada that went through a safety course and were "vetted" by a police check. Most mass killers don't have much of a history of crime. Gang violence is almost committed almost entirely with illegal handguns today, which would still be smuggled in and sold on the black market and that would continue. I'd vote for these measures, but I don't think they'd change much. Wish we could get a government to actually spend big on poverty, the more common factor in gang violence and mental health, the more common factor in mass shootings. vincentpricesboner fucked around with this message at 00:13 on Nov 15, 2018 |
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 00:11
|
|
|
zapplez posted:What exactly would making semi autos slightly harder to get change about the landscape of gun violence in America? Domestic violence would still have the same end result with a shotgun or with a rifle. This. Better gun control will make it so that killing sprees are less effective and a higher proportion of victims will make it to the emergency room, i.e. it is better than nothing, but until America fixes its weird rear end society there is still going to be a fuckton of needless violence and murder.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 01:01
|
|
I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
|
Also if they'd stop showing the mass murderers picture and myspace and etc hundreds of times on CNN might loving help.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 01:08
|
|
|
Well that's it! First, we regulate CNN. Next, we fix poverty! Why didn't anyone think of this before??
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 01:27
|
|
|
Edgar Allen Ho posted:Well that's it! First, we regulate CNN. Next, we fix poverty! Why didn't anyone think of this before?? like with improving gun control to sane levels, selfish greedy bastards stand in their way
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 01:29
|
|
|
Edgar Allen Ho posted:First, we regulate CNN. Next, we fix poverty! This but unironically. If you don't think becoming infamous isn't a factor for a lot of these mass shooters, you haven't read much about them. And just because fixing the root causes of violence is hard doesn't mean we just shouldn't even dare to ask for it to be changed. Also universal background checks, etc etc
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 01:30
|
|
|
Guns??? MY guns?????????? LOOOOOK, a poor person! Fix that, THEN maybe I'll agree to fill out some paperwork. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 01:33
|
|
|
zapplez posted:This but unironically. If you don't think becoming infamous isn't a factor for a lot of these mass shooters, you haven't read much about them. Just because banning guns is hard doesn't mean we shouldn't try it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 01:34
|
|
|
Edgar Allen Ho posted:Guns??? I'd be fine with BB guns. I dont hunt and I just like to shoot tin cans. Try arguing my actual points instead about gun control and violence instead of the tired "iTs JuSt a dUmB HoBBY!"
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 01:37
|
|
|
No no the secret to stopping gun violence is to abolish the first amendment duh
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 01:42
|
|
|
Saying there cant be limitations to the first amendment is a pretty silly argument when on the same hand you want changes to the second...
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 01:44
|
|
|
Party Plane Jones posted:Reminder there are rather high penalties for shitposting in this thread.   but yes keep at it folks
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 01:45
|
|
|
Nothing Harik proposed violates the 2nd Amendment, NFA has been ruled constitutional, as are registries, next
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 01:45
|
|
|
Jaxyon posted:Just because banning guns is hard doesn't mean we shouldn't try it. Is the end goal banning guns, or reducing violence?
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 01:46
|
|
|
zapplez posted:Saying there cant be limitations to the first amendment is a pretty silly argument when on the same hand you want changes to the second... Actually no you could heavily restrict guns/ban them without changing the 2nd.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 01:46
|
|
|
I don't get the attitude of "its not a big deal to change the history of the country by dramatically changing how we let people own guns" but also "banning the publication of the shooters full name would DESTROY the first amendment, we have to put their manifesto in repeat 24/7 and also list out their spotify recently played songs. THE PUBLIC NEEDS to know everything about the incel!!!" I am agreeing they need tougher gun laws. But to think the media plays 0% in all this is crazy. They done the studies. Its a serious problem. These kids want to be infamous. Why are we helping that? Its not a "we can only fix one issue out of (assault weapons, gang violence, poverty, mental health, the media/copycat effect, etc)" Why can't you agree its also part of the problem?
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 01:52
|
|
|
*leans into mic until you can hear my breathing* ban guns.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 01:52
|
|
|
zapplez posted:I don't get the attitude of "its not a big deal to change the fabric of the country by dramatically changing how we let people own guns" The news can choose to stop printing that stuff, as they do on suicides. Making them do that violates the 1st. It's the "focusing on that kind of thing in response to gun policy" that people are making fun of you for. Nobody said the media does nothing. It's just the endless string of "we should focus on this thing that isn't gun control" in gun control arguments.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 01:54
|
|
|
Jaxyon posted:The news can choose to stop printing that stuff, as they do on suicides. Making them do that violates the 1st. So I hope you can try and see this from the other side for a second. For gun owners, when all you see from the other side as the solution is "melt all the guns", you can't help but think to yourself "but they won't even do the 17 other things to actually solve gun violence, its just going to keep happening and now I can't shoot coyotes killing my cows"
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 01:56
|
|
|
zapplez posted:So I hope you can try and see this from the other side for a second. For gun owners, when all you see from the other side as the solution is "melt all the guns", you can't help but think to yourself "but they won't even do the 17 other things to actually solve gun violence, its just going to keep happening and now I can't shoot coyotes killing my cows" This is hysterical considering how gunfuckers talk about mental health and then vote for people who absolutely destroy any chance at people getting help because they're the ones who also defend guns Also, not having guns would absolutely cut down on gun violence so I don't know why you put that actually in there
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 02:02
|
|
|
You know what impact those 17 other items would have on gun violence with proper gun control laws? Less. You know what would be easier with proper gun control laws? Fixing those other issues. Sure, the reverse might be true, but fixing institutionalized wealth disparity is several magnitudes harder than instituting sensible gun control laws and systems, especially in America, Country of the Free Kickbacks. Gotta start somewhere and gun control is a good place to do so.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 02:06
|
|
|
zapplez posted:So I hope you can try and see this from the other side for a second. For gun owners, when all you see from the other side as the solution is "melt all the guns", you can't help but think to yourself "but they won't even do the 17 other things to actually solve gun violence, its just going to keep happening and now I can't shoot coyotes killing my cows" Dude, I don't just enjoy guns, I'm a history nerd and my greatest life achievement is having fired a 24lber 18th century cannon. I own guns. I think it's fun to shoot antique guns at targets, and it's soothing to clean and maintain them. BUT I'd rather melt all the guns than concede an inch to the "but... but... my guns? WAIT NO LOOK AT THAT HOMELESS VET!" crowd. A huge part of why no one is taking you seriously is that you've assigned yourself to the "gun owner" category and everyone else to the "wants to outlaw paintball guns forever" category. Another thing, you're doing what's called "deflecting." In a specific thread about guns in the US, you keep going "but, uh, POVERTY! INEQUALITY! etc" You come off less like you care about those things and more like you desperately want to keep your boom boom toys. And that's being generous cuz plenty of people who do the same poo poo as you desperately want to keep their "what if a black man looks at me??" defense mechanisms. Edgar Allen Ho fucked around with this message at 02:21 on Nov 15, 2018 |
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 02:19
|
|
|
Edgar Allen Ho posted:Dude, I don't just enjoy guns, I'm a history nerd and my greatest life achievement is having fired a 24lber 18th century cannon. I own guns. I think it's fun to shoot antique guns at targets, and it's soothing to clean and maintain them. I guess its a fundamental difference in what I think would make any real dent into the problem. I believe if america adopted a "good" gun control system ala Australia or Canada tommorow, there would still be a massive gun violence problem. Maybe you'd cut it by 5%, maybe 25%. On the other hand, if we actually improved the lives of poor people, we could reduce it by 90%. But hey, we both know we are never voting in a government that is going to help poor people. So maybe you guys are right, we should just go for the small improvements we might have a chance of ever doing.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 02:22
|
|
|
I am not a constitutional scholar from Princevard University or anything, but I'm pretty sure a law banning the news from reporting the news would violate freedom of the press and banning all mention of shootings from the internet is impossible and a violation of freedom of speech, even if I personally would agree with such laws were I somehow magically reassured they wouldn't be abused to ban information politicians don't like. Also I am not a comparative political science scholar from Harvton University or anything but pretty sure it's legal to protect your livestock from predators everywhere and nowhere are you legally required to be eaten by wolves thanks to the gotdang liberals
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 02:25
|
|
|
zapplez posted:I guess its a fundamental difference in what I think would make any real dent into the problem. I believe if america adopted a "good" gun control system ala Australia or Canada tommorow, there would still be a massive gun violence problem. Maybe you'd cut it by 5%, maybe 25%. On the other hand, if we actually improved the lives of poor people, we could reduce it by 90%. Why are you all focusing on making one change that will have an effect that's good instead of massive institutional changes that force our country to confront the gross truths at it's heart I say with a straight face
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 02:28
|
|
|
Not directly related to the gun control argument, but do you think you will be alive to see in a dramatic change to gun control or gun violence in America, or do you think its hundreds or thousands of years away a la Star Trek.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 02:36
|
|
|
zapplez posted:Not directly related to the gun control argument, but do you think you will be alive to see in a dramatic change to gun control or gun violence in America, or do you think its hundreds or thousands of years away a la Star Trek. I think I have a better chance of seeing actual gun control legislation in my lifetime than the sweeping changes to American society necessary for the rest of it
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 02:46
|
|
|
Harik posted:Concrete proposal: What is this? zapplez posted:Not directly related to the gun control argument, but do you think you will be alive to see in a dramatic change to gun control or gun violence in America, or do you think its hundreds or thousands of years away a la Star Trek. There have been a ton of things in American history that have been popular and gone away such as the intro to gambling for kids known as Pogs to the sport of Boxing. It's not impossible, it can happen but will we actually try to make a difference? I am not sure but it certainly seem to be leaning that way for anyone under 65.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 03:02
|
|
|
Tab8715 posted:There have been a ton of things in American history that have been popular and gone away such as the intro to gambling for kids known as Pogs to the sport of Boxing. It's not impossible, it can happen but will we actually try to make a difference? Yeah the boomers are an anomaly, the Greatest Generation wrote all our gun control laws, and the millenials seem to be reverting back to the default of caring for fellow humans rather than myopically clinging to an identity created for us by mass advertising, so who knows what the future will bring when the most self-involved cohort in human history is no longer running the show
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 03:08
|
|
|
Something tells me that the generation who are currently doing active shooter drills in elementary school aren't gonna be so keen on guns when they get older.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 03:11
|
|
|
Gripweed posted:Something tells me that the generation who are currently doing active shooter drills in elementary school aren't gonna be so keen on guns when they get older. This is starting to extend to actual corporations. I poo poo you not during active shooter training an older gentleman openly disagreed with the instructions of "Run, Hide, Fight" and wanted to either have his CC on him at all times or go to his vehicle to retrieve his weapon. His manager had to pull him aside for a private conversation.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 03:23
|
|
|
Tab8715 posted:What is this? NFA registry is a list of of all the guns covered by the National Firearms Act which regulated full auto guns, short barreled rifles, short barreled shotguns, suppressors, destructive devices and AOW (any other weapon, eg something that doesn’t fit in the category). Doing stuff through NFA takes anywhere from several weeks to close to a year and requires paying for a $200 tax stamp (for most things), being fingerprinted, having a picture taken, and being run through an FBI background check. The ATF is required to keep records but they have to be on paper. There are giant warehouses where floors are bowing under the weight of the files kept in them. Part of the reason why NFA paperwork takes so long is there's literally about 25 inspectors doing the paperwork processing for the whole country; and they'll get pulled off NFA work onto anything else at whim. Party Plane Jones fucked around with this message at 03:36 on Nov 15, 2018 |
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 03:33
|
|
|
zapplez posted:I don't get the attitude of "its not a big deal to change the history of the country by dramatically changing how we let people own guns" What studies? The CDC has been banned from studying gun deaths my entire adult life. Also things like bolt-action rifles or breech-loading shotguns, the things actually good for killing rural pests like coyotes or hunting, are not things anyone sane is really going after. I’m pretty Rah Rah Ban All Guns but even I have an asterisk on that for like a well-kept and safe hunting rifle because you hunt for food. We can discuss how necessary they are I guess but they’re nothing compared to the fact that someone can buy a decently high-mag concealable handgun. Also keep in mind the opposition. we aren’t universally opposed to boom toys. I myself have been wanting to buy and just holding back for years buying a wheellock carbine just cause they’re cool.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 04:23
|
|
|
Xiahou Dun posted:What studies? I was specifically referencing the studies are out on the "copycat effect" and the part the media has to play about mass shooters. https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2018/2/22/17041382/school-shooting-media-coverage-perpetrator-parkland http://www.center4research.org/copy-cats-kill/ https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/yes-mass-killings-inspire-copycats-study-finds-n386141 When it comes to preventing mass shooters, I can't think of an easier and more practical law to happen than refusing to publish the full name of the shooter on TV or radio news, and to not show their picture. vincentpricesboner fucked around with this message at 04:47 on Nov 15, 2018 |
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 04:43
|
|
|
zapplez posted:I was specifically referencing the studies are out on the "copycat effect" and the part the media has to play about mass shooters. If only we could compare this to studies of gun violence and see which has a greater impact
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 05:23
|
|
|
zapplez posted:I was specifically referencing the studies are out on the "copycat effect" and the part the media has to play about mass shooters. Whew, good thing you included easy as a qualifier. Can't put actual, like, effort into preventing murder or god knows where we might end up
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 05:26
|
|
|
I'm not sure that trying to pass and successfully defend a blatantly unconstitutional law that will be laughed out of every court in the land would be best described as "easy" Although it is always amusing that the "mah rights" crowd wants to end freedom of speech and the press
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 05:29
|
|
|
VitalSigns posted:I'm not sure that trying to pass and successfully defend a blatantly unconstitutional law that will be laughed out of every court in the land would be best described as "easy" Gun rights aren't really human rights like real human rights are. There's a reason the ACLU doesn't care about gun rights and the NRA is a white supremacist organization.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 05:31
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 06:59 |
|
|
zapplez posted:I was specifically referencing the studies are out on the "copycat effect" and the part the media has to play about mass shooters. I mean we could also ban automatic and semi-automatic weapons. But we have no way to find out which might work better. Because even researching that is banned. Do you have a defense for that?
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 06:08
|
|