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NRVNQSR posted:I'm having a hard time following what you're saying here, but it sounds like "if someone makes a eye-tracking headset more developers will want to develop for it because they can make better looking games"? If so the problem with that is that developers aren't avoiding VR because the graphics aren't good enough, they're avoiding it because the market is too small and the costs are too high. They're not going to be drawn in by the prospect of relying on tech that has an even smaller market share and even higher development costs. Lower hardware requirements brought on by foveated rendering means an average PC can run VR headsets instead of only top-end ones. That expands the market, and invites new game development as a result, because now you've got a shitload more people who have a PC that can run a VR headset without dropping at least two grand on PC parts on top of it.
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Nov 17, 2018 14:05
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Lower hardware requirements brought on by foveated rendering means an average PC can run VR headsets instead of only top-end ones. Except it doesn't unless all the games you want to play already support foveated rendering. That's why it's a chicken and egg problem; without the game support a high res, high fov headset with eye tracking requires a more powerful PC to run the same games on top of being more expensive itself, so it's a much smaller market. With such a small market there's no reason for games to spend money to add the support, so the requirements don't come down and the market stays small.
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Nov 17, 2018 14:16
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NRVNQSR posted:Except it doesn't unless all the games you want to play already support foveated rendering. That's why it's a chicken and egg problem; without the game support a high res, high fov headset with eye tracking requires a more powerful PC to run the same games on top of being more expensive itself, so it's a much smaller market. With such a small market there's no reason for games to spend money to add the support, so the requirements don't come down and the market stays small. Game development studios get these neat toys called "developer kits" well before hardware gets anywhere near a retail shelf so they can have things ready for said retail launch. By the time an FR-capable headset would have a release date announced, most studios would've been playing with two or three different sequential iterations of it for months and be quite capable of deploying launch-day patches. These things do not pop into existence in a vacuum. By your logic, the Knuckle controller shouldn't bother releasing because CLEARLY nothing will support them at release.
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Nov 17, 2018 14:38
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Neddy Seagoon posted:By the time an FR-capable headset would have a release date announced, most studios would've been playing with two or three different sequential iterations of it for months and be quite capable of deploying launch-day patches. These things do not pop into existence in a vacuum. The problem is not timing, it is money. Any engine developer that wanted to could spend the time to implement foveated rendering right now - no hardware or even APIs necessary - and fix it up for any new headset that releases. But why would we? Unless you have a credible company saying that there will be a large number of headsets sold with support then you're throwing money into a hole, and with Oculus out who can say that? Samsung or HTC? They might still be major players in the headset market in a year's time, but I certainly wouldn't put money on either of them being market-dominating. Valve? They don't make headsets and don't seem interested in being the ones driving a Vive successor; they only care about the controllers right now. Microsoft? Possibly; that's why I called them out in my original post. If they get into VR seriously then I could see them being the ones to drive this, but they haven't made that commitment yet. If Knuckles were coming from Pimax or StarVR or even Samsung then I would absolutely call them DoA. It's only the fact that they have Valve's weight behind them that stops them from automatically being the new Razer Hydra.
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Nov 17, 2018 15:22
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NRVNQSR posted:The problem is not timing, it is money. Any engine developer that wanted to could spend the time to implement foveated rendering right now - no hardware or even APIs necessary - and fix it up for any new headset that releases. But why would we? Unless you have a credible company saying that there will be a large number of headsets sold with support then you're throwing money into a hole, and with Oculus out who can say that? Samsung or HTC? They might still be major players in the headset market in a year's time, but I certainly wouldn't put money on either of them being market-dominating. Valve? They don't make headsets and don't seem interested in being the ones driving a Vive successor; they only care about the controllers right now. Microsoft? Possibly; that's why I called them out in my original post. If they get into VR seriously then I could see them being the ones to drive this, but they haven't made that commitment yet. Uh... have you not seen the leaked Valve headsets yet?
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Nov 17, 2018 15:36
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Uh... have you not seen the leaked Valve headsets yet? No, I didn't realize those had leaked. Of course that just means you can see for yourself: Their next generation of headsets don't include eye tracking hardware. There's no reason to believe that they're going to be the ones pushing it. edit: But to be clear yes, potentially they could. If Valve actually were to come along and say "our new headset has eye-tracking fast enough to be used for rendering, and we have enough hardware partners doing the same thing that it'll have a significant market presence" then they'd be worth listening to, same as Microsoft. NRVNQSR fucked around with this message at 16:59 on Nov 17, 2018 |
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Nov 17, 2018 16:40
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I really don't think it'll be a hard sell to implement foveated rendering in games, especially if Unreal at the minimum can be convinced to support it out of the box (I don't know the Unity VR situation, last I heard it was... Not Great).
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Nov 17, 2018 17:19
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On the Unity side, I am pretty confident it will end up being a checkbox in the VR options eventually.
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Nov 17, 2018 17:23
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Shemp the Stooge posted:On the Unity side, I am pretty confident it will end up being a checkbox in the VR options eventually. Unity will be interesting, since they're in the process of heavily reworking how their render pipeline is specified and configured. On the one hand that makes it more flexible and theoretically makes it more viable for third party developers to add their own support for this stuff, but at the same time it means all their own render engineers are really busy right now so it might take them quite a while to put it in as a core feature. Nvidia will 100% put a solution up on the asset store that only works on GeForce cards, though.
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Nov 17, 2018 17:39
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It sure seems like at least in unity and unreal's case, they pretty much know foveated rendering is coming at some point, and so far have been pretty forward thinking in making sure to support vr stuff. I really don't have any worries that by the time any FR headset hits the market, the major engines won't already have built in support.
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Nov 17, 2018 20:10
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Considering one of the biggest barriers to adoption at this point is high system requirements, I can't picture a scenario where foveated rendering has trouble gaining a foothold, especially on the mobile end of things. Being able to run desktop VR on an integrated GPU or get close to current gen visuals from an all-in-one device is far too attractive a prospect. Edit: I mean, if the major players were to just throw it out there and say "have at it", then I could see it stumbling, but there's no reason for them not to push it as hard as they can. Ludicrous Gibs! fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Nov 17, 2018 |
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Nov 17, 2018 20:38
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I finally got around to Vox Machinae, and wow. Wooooowwww.
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Nov 17, 2018 22:04
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Taintrunner posted:I finally got around to Vox Machinae, and wow. Wooooowwww. To people who haven't played it in a while: they increased the health of your limbs, so they no longer fall off when someone sneezes at you. It's much better now.
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Nov 17, 2018 22:10
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Echo Combat for fun tournament going on right now https://www.twitch.tv/echocommunity https://smash.gg/tournament/echo-combat-discord-cup-01-1/events/opening-weekend-4v4/brackets/456275
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Nov 17, 2018 22:20
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Shine posted:To people who haven't played it in a while: they increased the health of your limbs, so they no longer fall off when someone sneezes at you. It's much better now. Really? I feel like I was loving ripping through dudes, but maybe that’s more my many years of Battletech/Mechwarrior experience rushing through my veins as everything clicked
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Nov 17, 2018 22:39
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Taintrunner posted:Really? I feel like I was loving ripping through dudes, but maybe that’s more my many years of Battletech/Mechwarrior experience rushing through my veins as everything clicked You can still rip through if you get a solid bead on them and shoot accurately, but compared to the original release, limbs now last longer. On release, limbs would melt almost right away, especially with the light mech, but they're definitely sturdier now. They apparently also buffed the general health of the Dredge (heavy) but I haven't messed with it yet.
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Nov 17, 2018 23:14
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Nope, it's done. You're getting a slightly-newer Oculus Rift S with inside-out tracking. Half Dome was a tech demo designed to show off a specific feature, not a full consumer product in development. Whatever the Rift 2 was going to be has been shelved in favor of a different intermediate step, but that doesn't mean varifocal lenses and foveated rendering have been abandoned forever. Nor do we even know if they were part of whatever the cancelled Rift 2 was going to include in the first place... all we know right now that the Rift 2 was going to be expensive and require a bunch of power and Facebook wanted something cheaper that required less power, so it's entirely possible Iribe's Rift 2 was going the Pimax route. Especially since even before the Rift 2 was cancelled, Abrash was saying it was going to be years before varifocal lenses and foveated rendering were ready for commercial release.
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Nov 18, 2018 00:13
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NRVNQSR posted:No, I didn't realize those had leaked. Of course that just means you can see for yourself: Their next generation of headsets don't include eye tracking hardware. There's no reason to believe that they're going to be the ones pushing it. There was a Valve patent issued earlier this year that demonstrates eye tracking hardware being hidden inside the lens assembly.
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Nov 18, 2018 00:36
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SwissCM posted:There was a Valve patent issued earlier this year that demonstrates eye tracking hardware being hidden inside the lens assembly. Not that this is new news but the problem has not been eye tracking the problem has been getting eye tracking that works 99.9% of the time quickly on 95+% (example numbers, every company will choose its own threshold) of the population. Abrash showed at OC3 I think eye tracking with the hope of using it for foveated rendering and the problem they found was getting it to always work on a large % of the population. Everyone eyes are extremely different and it has to be rock solid otherwise the experience will be very bad.
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Nov 18, 2018 03:36
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Stick100 posted:Not that this is new news but the problem has not been eye tracking the problem has been getting eye tracking that works 99.9% of the time quickly on 95+% (example numbers, every company will choose its own threshold) of the population. Abrash showed at OC3 I think eye tracking with the hope of using it for foveated rendering and the problem they found was getting it to always work on a large % of the population. OC3 was a very long time ago technology-wise. Not that you're wrong, just that we haven't publicly seen much of the technology since then and everyone knows drat-well it's the cornerstone of getting the hardware specs down to something sane for the average user.
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Nov 18, 2018 03:52
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I tried Zero Caliber, I’m not sure if I like it. The encounter design feels a little too hectic to really play around and climb trees or whatever. The first SP mission has you going to a checkpoint that gets swarmed on all sides and I don’t feel like I can really dig in. It feels alright to shoot, I just wish it was a little slower paced.
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Nov 18, 2018 04:39
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Neddy Seagoon posted:everyone knows drat-well it's the cornerstone of getting the hardware specs down to something sane for the average user. That assumes it will ever work, getting acceptable eye tracking for foveated rendering has been hinted at but not ever demonstrated even on a one of a kind build. It might not be possible with our current tech. I hope this isn't the case but I think it makes some sense to throw a little bit of cold water on every expecting foveated rendering just around the corner. If someone has it even at tech demo level it would show up somewhere like CES. I've seen tobiis eye tracking and it's extremely impressive but that apparently still isn't good enough. However, I do have to say running the highest level of fix foveated rendering on the Oculus Go hardly causes any change visibility. I think it's nuts most VR games render the same res out to the edges and could easily save 1/2 of their rendering budget with fix foveated rendering. Given that I don't think it would be too bad to see 1/4th res occasionally using an eye-tracked foveated solution.
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Nov 18, 2018 05:21
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With Black Friday and the rest of the holiday season looming I'm hoping to finally buy a VR headset. What are the best options if I want to avoid anything Facebook related? I wear glasses and I remember hearing that one of the headsets was significantly more comfortable for people with glasses. The Vive is down to $500 but Amazon has a "HTC VIVE Pro Virtual Reality System" listed for three times that so I'm guessing that there are some fine details I'm not aware of.
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Nov 18, 2018 06:02
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LLSix posted:With Black Friday and the rest of the holiday season looming I'm hoping to finally buy a VR headset. What are the best options if I want to avoid anything Facebook related? The Vive is down to $500 but Amazon has a "HTC VIVE Pro Virtual Reality System" listed for three times that so I'm guessing that there are some fine details I'm not aware of. Don't bother with the Pro, just get the regular Vive. It's really not worth the price.
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Nov 18, 2018 06:09
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Goddamn that Creed game is a workout. At one point I had my hands on my knees basically begging the dude not to get up so I wouldn’t have to knock his rear end back down again.
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Nov 18, 2018 06:09
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I just tried Creed and the in-game IPD is completely messed up, it's way too high and instantly causes  . Does anyone know what's up with that? Might be a compatibility issue with WMR but this is the first game where I encountered this.Stick100 posted:That assumes it will ever work, getting acceptable eye tracking for foveated rendering has been hinted at but not ever demonstrated even on a one of a kind build. It might not be possible with our current tech. I hope this isn't the case but I think it makes some sense to throw a little bit of cold water on every expecting foveated rendering just around the corner. Really hope someone is still pushing this because the potential saving is enormous considering the fovea is like 2 degrees of our field of view and we're effectively wasting the vast majority of rendering power.
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Nov 18, 2018 13:45
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Man, Rise of the Rottweiners is a lot of fun in H3VR. Especially with the balance passes it's gotten. I kinda wish it'd save your active run loadout when you quit, rather than have it start a new one with unlocked quest rewards like when you die, but once you've done a few quests it's very easy to kit up relatively quickly. And if you do the quest to fuel up the fire traps in Wienerton, the reward for doing all three gets you AP + Incendiary 9x19mm rounds. My last run had a 9x19mm-loading handgun with a pair of long clips, and it just murdered most Rottweiners in 2-3 shots  .
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Nov 18, 2018 15:42
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The Pawn Shop added in the last patch gets random 12g spawners. One time he gave me FRAG-12 rounds, and I had a semi-auto shotgun. That was a fun time stirring up the Wieners in Black.  And the mode still has at least one more update until it's finished.
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Nov 18, 2018 16:50
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mobby_6kl posted:What's wrong with tobii? The few people who tried a headset with their eye tracking and foveated rendering tend to report no perceived reduction in image quality. Opps guess I was completly wrong and will edit my post, I had not tried that Tobii solution, and the impressions are better than I expected. Oh I'm sure nearly everyone is trying to get it working because as you said the it would be an incredible break through. It's usually estimated that it would reduce the amount of required pixel fill by 10x. That would mean our current systems would run HMD with 10x the current resolution which would get us most of the way to "retina" resolution.
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Nov 18, 2018 21:53
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You're seriously missing out if you're not playing Rise of the Rottweiners on H3VR. It's an absurd amount of fun and they're constantly bugfixing/balancing the mode. I spent a few hours playing today after last playing on initial release and it's so much more polished.
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Nov 18, 2018 22:01
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What I haven't figured out is how you're meant to destroy the Rotweiner hives. Do you just plug bullets into them until they pop? I managed to destroy the one near The Silo by accident, and have no idea how. I think one of those Zosigs with the meatball guns sprayed it.
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Nov 19, 2018 02:30
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Neddy Seagoon posted:What I haven't figured out is how you're meant to destroy the Rotweiner hives. Do you just plug bullets into them until they pop? I managed to destroy the one near The Silo by accident, and have no idea how. I think one of those Zosigs with the meatball guns sprayed it. Yeah, just shoot them until they explode. High power rifle rounds work well.
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Nov 19, 2018 04:38
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Or you can slap them with melee weapons for 5 minutes solid
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Nov 19, 2018 04:52
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The reward for turning in a Scout Rifle is... interesting... It came with three magazines  .I also got very lucky that run and scored a CX4 with three long mags. The gunstore also had the PX4 handgun, and I got two more long mags off that. I was running around with five magazines full of AP+Incendiary rounds, popping Zosigs with impunity  .Also anyone know where the Chocolate and Strawberry Chow locations are?
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Nov 19, 2018 15:06
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The Hives have regular HP, just a poo poo ton of it. I used a lot of dynamite clearing the mines, and the master baiter gives you grenades. Including- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82uBu4MjBhg The Gatling does a lot of work. 45-70 Gov will gently caress up everyone, especially the Pacification wieners if you have a good ambush spot. The other flavours are apparently (as I've not found them yet) a super super super rare spawn in random crates. No idea if there's a reliable way to get them, or if they will be found in the other areas
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Nov 19, 2018 15:23
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Paingod556 posted:The Hives have regular HP, just a poo poo ton of it. I used a lot of dynamite clearing the mines, and the master baiter gives you grenades. Including- You really do get a lot from watching people's body language in VR. And drat  .
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Nov 19, 2018 15:30
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Have we gotten any hints of BF deals on Rift or WMR? I'm looking to upgrade the monoculus, but its been radio silence so far.
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Nov 19, 2018 15:34
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Jim Silly-Balls posted:Have we gotten any hints of BF deals on Rift or WMR? I'm looking to upgrade the monoculus, but its been radio silence so far. Rift is $350.00 at Best Buy, I haven't been able to find anything else so far.
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Nov 19, 2018 15:45
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WMR Samsung Odyssey headset is $299. Pretty big drop. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B078K2S122?pf_rd_p=c2945051-950f-485c-b4df-15aac5223b10&pf_rd_r=XC7K8F9GHCGZSVCBNVGS
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Nov 19, 2018 16:00
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I suppose no news means no knuckles controllers for another few months at the very least.
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Nov 19, 2018 16:33
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