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also btw re: "sophistication" i think it's worth mentioning that they created the fake identity of Guccifer 2.0 to try to cover up the fact that military intelligence did the hacks then they used it, and their troll farms/other social media ops, to manufacture the Seth Rich conspiracy theory that the entire right wing picked up which muddied the waters for months. as late at this year I've still seen even people on the left (ie: aaron mate) argue the now-debunked "the DNC hack must've been an inside job" line that is literally the result of said Russian conspiracy
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Nov 19, 2018 18:15
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Lightning Knight posted:I would argue that the problem with this view is that it assumes that Russian propaganda is a significant factor as compared to the more general state of media and especially social media. I agree - I really think people overestimate the efficacy of Russian propaganda on Facebook and Twitter. Nobody who was going to vote against Trump had their mind changed by that nonsense. It bugs me how much oxygen it gets because there actually is a very real propaganda and communications component to the current state of political affairs, it's just the people doing it are friends and colleagues of our "mainstream" media members like Chuck Todd and Jake Tapper.
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Nov 19, 2018 18:16
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Lightning Knight posted:I would argue that the problem with this view is that it assumes that Russian propaganda is a significant factor as compared to the more general state of media and especially social media. To your first point I see what you are saying, but if a lot of the stuff is piggybacking and building off of state media in a way that can appear coordinated, then the waters get a bit muddy. I absolutely agree with your second point but it's a bit like putting the genie back in the bottle at this point, so I'm skeptical that anything will happen on that front. I guess if we see a bunch of European countries with stricter speech laws file suits that neuter Facebook or Twitter it would be a good thing, but at this point I'm not holding my breath.
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Nov 19, 2018 18:16
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TheScott2K posted:it's just the people doing it are friends and colleagues of our "mainstream" media members like Chuck Todd and Jake Tapper. ding ding ding. Jake Tapper's abysmal interviews of Trump and Hillary where he "but your emails!"'d her should've gotten him run out of journalism, and yet the same people who think Russia is behind everything furiously retweet Tapper's hagiography for John McCain. DrNutt posted:I absolutely agree with your second point but it's a bit like putting the genie back in the bottle at this point, so I'm skeptical that anything will happen on that front. I guess if we see a bunch of European countries with stricter speech laws file suits that neuter Facebook or Twitter it would be a good thing, but at this point I'm not holding my breath. Last I heard Europe is also loving the internet up because the EU is bad, so probably rip the internet. 
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Nov 19, 2018 18:19
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Lightning Knight posted:I would argue that the problem with this view is that it assumes that Russian propaganda is a significant factor as compared to the more general state of media and especially social media. nationalizing them would be a huge mess, in no small part because of the First Amendment what regulations would you like to see? a narrow "facebook and twitter are criminally and civilly liable for things posted there, but Something Awful is not"? Something hitting their advertising/paid-postboosting process? Lightning Knight posted:
so what you're saying is, GDPR is definitely not the sort of regulation you want to see?
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Nov 19, 2018 18:22
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Lightning Knight posted:ding ding ding. The Scandinavians give me hope, but you're probably right. 
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Nov 19, 2018 18:23
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Lightning Knight posted:Jake Tapper's abysmal interviews of Trump and Hillary where he "but your emails!"'d her should've gotten him run out of journalism, and yet the same people who think Russia is behind everything furiously retweet Tapper's hagiography for John McCain He's also DC Journalism's biggest bootlicker for the military, and that's saying something.
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Nov 19, 2018 18:23
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Lightning Knight posted:ding ding ding. The freakout over last year's WHCD really bugged the hell out of me because it was clear that they were all lying about Wolf attacking Sanders' looks because she called them out to their faces for being principally at fault for Trump's win. They gaslit the country for a solid week's worth of new cycles, and it wasn't the Fox people doing it, it was all of them.
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Nov 19, 2018 18:23
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Holy loving poo poo. This...is just so loving unreal. White Kansas State Official tells black woman he belongs to the master race
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Nov 19, 2018 18:24
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friendbot2000 posted:https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/rising-seas-threaten-norfolk-naval-shipyard-raising-fears-catastrophic-damage-n937396 I dunno, sounds like an opportunity for a very big procurement bill to me.
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Nov 19, 2018 18:24
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GreyjoyBastard posted:nationalizing them would be a huge mess, in no small part because of the First Amendment I have no idea and I don't know if there is actually a regulatory scheme equipped to deal with what social media has become. I know the status quo is untenable, however.
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Nov 19, 2018 18:24
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:He's also DC Journalism's biggest bootlicker for the military, and that's saying something. I feel like Martha Raddatz wins that pageant but yeah he's awful.
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Nov 19, 2018 18:24
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TheScott2K posted:I agree - I really think people overestimate the efficacy of Russian propaganda on Facebook and Twitter. Nobody who was going to vote against Trump had their mind changed by that nonsense. It bugs me how much oxygen it gets because there actually is a very real propaganda and communications component to the current state of political affairs, it's just the people doing it are friends and colleagues of our "mainstream" media members like Chuck Todd and Jake Tapper. Myanmar used WhatsApp to help instigate genocide and rumors spread on it and Facebook still regularly get people lynched, so you may be understating the power of social media a wee bit.
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Nov 19, 2018 18:24
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friendbot2000 posted:Holy loving poo poo. This...is just so loving unreal. White Kansas State Official tells black woman he belongs to the master race in context it's actually even unrealler somehow quote:"I don't want you to think I'm picking on you because we're part of the master race," Klemp told Penelton — claiming that the fact that both he and she had "gaps" in their teeth meant they were part of a master race. He then said he didn't like any of the land use options that she had presented to the commission.
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Nov 19, 2018 18:26
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eke out posted:also btw re: "sophistication" i think it's worth mentioning that they created the fake identity of Guccifer 2.0 to try to cover up the fact that military intelligence did the hacks The seth rich theorists have been at it since the day he died. Stop blaming other people for Uncle Sam's untreated syphilis. Condiv posted:all the pics are p bad. a USA version of macron would be a real bad idea for the dems. can you imagine a dem president ranting about how he's like god and his party is the host of heaven? Literally happened on the West Wing, so yes, I can.
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Nov 19, 2018 18:27
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TheScott2K posted:I feel like Martha Raddatz wins that pageant but yeah he's awful. Ok yeah I forgot about that. Wow that's an insanely high bar to clear isn't it?
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Nov 19, 2018 18:28
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GreyjoyBastard posted:in context it's actually even unrealler somehow It really loving is...I just don't know to characterize this. Like, it is that weird form of racism that is kind of amorphous and hard to put on my Racism Bingo Card... Edit: Lol this fucker says that Robert E. Lee should be honored and is a wonderful part of history. friendbot2000 fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Nov 19, 2018 |
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Nov 19, 2018 18:28
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Flip Yr Wig posted:I dunno, sounds like an opportunity for a very big procurement bill to me. Infrastructure, huh? Maybe we could make a big deal out of improving it for, say, a week or so? Just to keep it in the news. Has anyone edited that Perry Bible Fellowship cartoon where they line up to paddle anyone who mentions some word to say infrastructure week instead yet?
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Nov 19, 2018 18:29
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the good news about the argument over the effect of the Russian conspiracy is that the (presumed) indictment of Roger Stone will likely give us the final link in at least one part of the narrative connecting the main actors here 1. GRU hacks DNC 2. GRU creates Guccifer 2.0 persona, which supposedly feeds the hacked data to Assange 3. Assange coordinates with Roger Stone, who is in direct contact with Bannon and Manafort] 4. Assange starts releasing emails at the time the Trump campaign most desperately needs a narrative shift because the entire media is playing the "Grab them by the pussy" tape though there will still probably be some open questions about what Julian Assange knew, because there's a big difference between (1) Assange getting the hacked data from Guccifer 2.0, a sketchy figure but one he had no reason to know was definitely a Russian cutout and (2) Assange getting the hacked data from Russians in some way where he definitely knew it was a state actor EdithUpwards posted:The seth rich theorists have been at it since the day he died. Stop blaming other people for Uncle Sam's untreated syphilis. the GRU agent using the "Guccifer 2.0" persona literally wrote that Seth Rich was his source my dude
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Nov 19, 2018 18:29
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friendbot2000 posted:Holy loving poo poo. This...is just so loving unreal. White Kansas State Official tells black woman he belongs to the master race It's the perfect microcosm of American politics: a expert woman of color explaining appropriate use of land, and a good ol' boy GOP hack using white nationalism in defense of bypassing all environmental regulation so agricultural processing plants can just poo poo all over the soil.
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Nov 19, 2018 18:30
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friendbot2000 posted:Norfolk is one of TWO facilities that can dry-dock nuclear-powered aircraft carriers FYI. This actually might spur the Pentagon to take climate change more seriously... The Pentagon/military has generally taken climate change extremely seriously since they're the ones who are going to be dealing with the aftereffects of it hitting the US (eg, international water wars)
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Nov 19, 2018 18:31
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Ok yeah I forgot about that. Wow that's an insanely high bar to clear isn't it? I've reached a point where if she's hosting ABC This Week I know 20 minutes of the show will be wasted on some base field trip where she gets to fawn over a room full of headset-wearing uniforms pointing at screens, so I just turn it off.
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Nov 19, 2018 18:31
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friendbot2000 posted:Holy loving poo poo. This...is just so loving unreal. White Kansas State Official tells black woman he belongs to the master race Woof, love the rise of an aggressive Neo-Nazi movement in America among elected officials! Also it's actually tragic that Assange will be able to claim that the US is after him for the rest of time and be a smug little shitlord. He should've went to jail for being a rapist, and then when he got out everyone should've forgotten he existed and left him alone. It would've driven him mad.
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Nov 19, 2018 18:31
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friendbot2000 posted:Norfolk is one of TWO facilities that can dry-dock nuclear-powered aircraft carriers FYI. This actually might spur the Pentagon to take climate change more seriously... I can think of three
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Nov 19, 2018 18:33
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Imo we should aim for what has the most chance of sticking to the GOP as well as Trump. I really think that Trump has given us a golden opportunity to run on anti-corruption messaging. Trump is just so loving blatant about using the office to funnel money to himself and his family and all his sycophants so ineptly living large on their government that it could be a great place to start turning back the rocks which the GOP money grifting machine hides under.
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Nov 19, 2018 18:33
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Party Plane Jones posted:The Pentagon/military has generally taken climate change extremely seriously since they're the ones who are going to be dealing with the aftereffects of it Let me rephrase. It might get them to start lobbying even more aggressively to Congress about dealing with this poo poo. I know they are moving forward with Climate Change research and mitigation despite Bigly Boi telling them no and then they shook some keys and he got distracted. TheScott2K posted:I can think of three I think only Puget Sound and Norfolk can dry-dock nuclear aircraft carriers. What is the third?
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Nov 19, 2018 18:33
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Lightning Knight posted:Woof, love the rise of an aggressive Neo-Nazi movement in America among elected officials! if he were in jail for being a rapist he'd probably have had trouble staying involved in Compromised Wikileaks, sooooo also he is directly and personally responsible for driving out the (good) other founders and putting Wikileaks in a position where it was appealing to use apparently-Russian-government-backed hardware and operators also for in general its descent from "credible and responsible place to, you know, leak sensitive documents and info" to what it is today assange bad
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Nov 19, 2018 18:34
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Party Plane Jones posted:The Pentagon/military has generally taken climate change extremely seriously since they're the ones who are going to be dealing with the aftereffects of it hitting the US (eg, international water wars) Here in Hampton Roads I fully expect the Navy to build levees around the base and Norfolk Naval Shipyard while the Commonwealth and the Federal government do loving nothing for coastline retreat and flood diversion.
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Nov 19, 2018 18:36
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GreyjoyBastard posted:if he were in jail for being a rapist he'd probably have had trouble staying involved in Compromised Wikileaks, sooooo Oh definitely, Assange is the worst. I just think it legitimately would've made him more mad and owned and been a worse outcome for him if he was ignored and irrelevant than how it is now, where he gets to claim that he is being Persecuted by the Evil American Empire when in reality he's just a douchebag who hides in an Ecuadorian closet and doesn't feed his cat.
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Nov 19, 2018 18:36
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Lightning Knight posted:I would argue that the problem with this view is that it assumes that Russian propaganda is a significant factor as compared to the more general state of media and especially social media. I mean, Fox News had a way larger effect on the election than Russian twitter trolls, but there's nothing actually illegal about Rupert Murdoch turning the largest cable news organization in the country into the propaganda wing of the Republican party, so I'm not really sure what to do about it?
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Nov 19, 2018 18:37
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GyroNinja posted:I mean, Fox News had a way larger effect on the election than Russian twitter trolls, but there's nothing actually illegal about Rupert Murdoch turning the largest cable news organization in the country into the propaganda wing of the Republican party, so I'm not really sure what to do about it? I'm honestly not sure either. I said up thread that I don't think that an effective regulatory regime currently exists within the context of the Constitution, but that the status quo is manifestly unacceptable.
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Nov 19, 2018 18:38
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Lightning Knight posted:Oh definitely, Assange is the worst. I just think it legitimately would've made him more mad and owned and been a worse outcome for him if he was ignored and irrelevant than how it is now, where he gets to claim that he is being Persecuted by the Evil American Empire when in reality he's just a douchebag who hides in an Ecuadorian closet and doesn't feed his cat. if anyone hasn't seen it I highly recommend the documentary Laura Poitras (ie: the person who broke the Snowden story) did about Assange, "Risk" not only did she have incredible, personal access to Assange for years, it's this amazing chronicle of someone who totally believes in the mission of Wikileaks seeing everything just break down and get destroyed as part of this misogynistic cult of personality Assange develops that drives most of the serious, principled types away from him
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Nov 19, 2018 18:39
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Party Plane Jones posted:The Pentagon/military has generally taken climate change extremely seriously since they're the ones who are going to be dealing with the aftereffects of it hitting the US (eg, international water wars) Every single piece of military hardware and technology used is extremely damaging to the environment, I don't think they're taking it that seriously
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Nov 19, 2018 18:40
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Lightning Knight posted:I'm honestly not sure either. I said up thread that I don't think that an effective regulatory regime currently exists within the context of the Constitution, but that the status quo is manifestly unacceptable. The Constitution's biggest failing, IMO, when it comes to basic rights is that it doesn't differentiate between powerful and not-powerful people and entities. I have a different reaction to regulating an entity that reaches hundreds of millions of people than to regulating the speech of an individual. The "corporations are people" shortcut is just loving this country in every hole.
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Nov 19, 2018 18:40
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TheScott2K posted:The "corporations are people" shortcut is just loving this country in every hole. I bet Chuck Tingle would pay you for this prompt.
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Nov 19, 2018 18:42
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GreyjoyBastard posted:what regulations would you like to see? a narrow "facebook and twitter are criminally and civilly liable for things posted there, but Something Awful is not"? Something hitting their advertising/paid-postboosting process? Any content generated by or displayed as a result of algorithmic selection not in direct response to a user's query (and only a user's query, no history data or profile information) categorically loses section 230 protection, as does paid promoted content. YouTube returning sandy hook truther videos in response to a search query - ok, those videos showing up in a recommended tab because someone watched a video about some ww2 firearm - no.
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Nov 19, 2018 18:45
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Skippy McPants posted:My hope is that when people repeatedly badger her with "how are you going to pay for all this," she just starts saying " Just say “they’ll pay for themselves with economic growth”, which is a hell of a lot more true for DSA policies than for tax cuts.
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Nov 19, 2018 18:46
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Radish posted:The WHC got their feelings hurt so bad by Wolfe that the aren't having a comedian at the next dinner. So Jimmy Fallon is hosting?
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Nov 19, 2018 18:46
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https://twitter.com/JohnDingell/status/1064574818748633088
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Nov 19, 2018 18:48
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friendbot2000 posted:Holy loving poo poo. This...is just so loving unreal. White Kansas State Official tells black woman he belongs to the master race Wonderful that we're going to see so many more Steve King clones at the local level, loving this new era where the white supremacists are just yelling out of bullhorns and still getting elected
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Nov 19, 2018 18:56
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