Phanatic posted:

https://www.denverpost.com/2018/11/18/right-coast-pizza-thanksgiving-smallpox-ad/

Krispy Wafer posted:

Someone was half-baked when they came up with that idea.

Although it is kind of silly, because instead of making light of the situation we usually just ignore what happened. Also it's been 500 years. The tragedy + time equation should have been active for at least the last 200 years.

Ziv Zulander posted:

Right Coast Pizza? what an odd name


America's native population has been getting hosed over more or less nonstop since the Europeans came. 500 years ago my pasty white rear end, the stuff that's happening to them today is a tragedy.

Krispy Wafer posted:

Sure it is. Still seems a little silly to get upset over a joke that actually acknowledges something Native Americans dealt with when the default mode in American life is to just ignore them until you want to highlight some noble savage stereotype.

Maybe it's different out West where you are more likely to encounter Native Americans. In other parts of the country they are literally never thought of until Thanksgiving rolls around or you go to a casino.

And to be clear, it's a bad joke that should never have been printed. But it's still kind of silly.

Captain Monkey posted:

Somewhere out west like maybe Colorado, where that ad is from?

Krispy Wafer posted:

Also I'm not sure being exposed to more Native Americans on an everyday basis would make you more or less likely to crack a lame small pox joke.

RoboRodent posted:

That's a joke in really, really poor taste.

Krispy Wafer posted:

Sure it is. Still seems a little silly to get upset over a joke that actually acknowledges something Native Americans dealt with when the default mode in American life is to just ignore them until you want to highlight some noble savage stereotype.

Maybe it's different out West where you are more likely to encounter Native Americans. In other parts of the country they are literally never thought of until Thanksgiving rolls around or you go to a casino.

And to be clear, it's a bad joke that should never have been printed. But it's still kind of silly.

Krispy Wafer posted:

Sure it is. Still seems a little silly to get upset over a joke that actually acknowledges something Native Americans dealt with when the default mode in American life is to just ignore them until you want to highlight some noble savage stereotype.

Maybe it's different out West where you are more likely to encounter Native Americans. In other parts of the country they are literally never thought of until Thanksgiving rolls around or you go to a casino.

And to be clear, it's a bad joke that should never have been printed. But it's still kind of silly.

RoboRodent posted:

"lol sorry about the genocide, and the plagues, and the reservations, and the cultural erasure, and the residential schools full of systemic physical and sexual abuse, and the ongoing generational trauma resulting from all that, but here's some pizza, we good?"

That's a joke in really, really poor taste.

Johnny Aztec posted:

Putting aside the later, targetted things, wasn't it something like between contact with the first European ship, and by the time the 2nd ship arrived, like a large percent of the total population had died already from rampant disease that they had no resistance to?


Like that scene from the Simpsons where Homer sneezes on a dino, and it's just a set of dominos falling over.

Besesoth posted:

Yeah, this was not a "whoops" scenario. The European eradication and subjugation of native Americans was premeditated and methodological. It was not just "oops! all diseases" like a lot of pro-white textbooks want you to think.

Captain Monkey posted:

the genocide defender has logged the heck on

Mu Zeta posted:

Europeans definitely traded AIDS quilts to the native population to make the process go faster. They knew what they were doing.

Byzantine posted:

That was in 1763, at an English fort in what is now Pennsylvania.

The plagues that ripped through the Americas killing off ~90% of the pre-Columbian population occurred centuries beforehand, almost immediately after contact in the 1490s. There's no evidence of the Spanish using biological warfare at that time, just showing up was enough.

Byzantine posted:

That was in 1763, at an English fort in what is now Pennsylvania.

The plagues that ripped through the Americas killing off ~90% of the pre-Columbian population occurred centuries beforehand, almost immediately after contact in the 1490s. There's no evidence of the Spanish using biological warfare at that time, just showing up was enough.

Krispy Wafer posted:

99.999999% of the disease deaths

pentyne posted:

Guns Germs and Steel touches on this as to why the Americas civilizations were basically wiped out while the East Asian, African, and Indian ones weren't. Huge portions of the world were skull-hosed for their resources by Western Colonialism, but no other populations were actually displaced and basically cut down to 1% of their size. Weren't the late 1500s Explorers finding completely depopulated cities and areas in regions that were thought to be populated up until very recently?

If you think about it, there was relatively consistent trade to some degree across Africa, Europe, and Asian across thousands of years so it's not like a population went 100 years without even incidental contact with a new disease or germ that had never been seen before.

Krispy Wafer posted:

Here here.

It's not genocide. Had Native Americans domesticated animals we'd been trading devastating plagues back and forth across the Atlantic, but as it turned out all they had was syphilis and tobacco. We did a lot of deliberately terrible things to aboriginal peoples. Small pox wasn't one of them.

Krispy Wafer posted:

Here here.

It's not genocide. Had Native Americans domesticated animals we'd been trading devastating plagues back and forth across the Atlantic, but as it turned out all they had was syphilis and tobacco. We did a lot of deliberately terrible things to aboriginal peoples. Small pox wasn't one of them.

Krispy Wafer posted:

Prokhor Zakharov posted:

Why have you picked this incredibly baffling hill to die on? White Europeans genocided Native Americans and shouldn't make jokes about said genocide. Full stop. Why is this even a discussion?

quote:

Open a treasure chest of Japanese card games with a bundle packed full of anime madness!

Prokhor Zakharov posted:

Why have you picked this incredibly baffling hill to die on? White Europeans genocided Native Americans and shouldn't make jokes about said genocide. Full stop. Why is this even a discussion?

Patrick Spens posted:

You get that there's a difference between true and false things right? And that repeating false details in the service of a broader point is still bad? Yes white people did terrible thing to Aboriginal people, and yes the ad was terrible, but the specific claim they're responding to is false.

Dylan16807 posted:

Plagues and genocide both happened.

But they were not the same thing.

quote:

During Pontiac's uprising in 1763, the Indians besieged Fort Pitt. They burned nearby houses, forcing the inhabitants to take refuge in the well-protected fort. The British officer in charge, Captain Simeon Ecuyer, reported to Colonel Henry Bouquet in Philadelphia that he feared the crowded conditions would result in disease. Smallpox had already broken out. On June 24, 1763, William Trent, a local trader, recorded in his journal that two Indian chiefs had visited the fort, urging the British to abandon the fight, but the British refused. Instead, when the Indians were ready to leave, Trent wrote: "Out of our regard for them, we gave them two Blankets and an Handkerchief out of the Small Pox Hospital. I hope it will have the desired effect."

It is not known who conceived the plan, but there's no doubt it met with the approval of the British military in America and may have been common practice. Sir Jeffery Amherst, commander of British forces in North America, wrote July 7, 1763, probably unaware of the events at Fort Pitt: "Could it not be contrived to Send the Small Pox among those Disaffected Tribes of Indians? We must, on this occasion, Use Every Stratagem in our power to Reduce them." He ordered the extirpation of the Indians and said no prisoners should be taken. About a week later, he wrote to Bouquet: "You will Do well to try to Innoculate the Indians by means of Blanketts as well as to try Every other method that can serve to Extirpate this Execrable Race."

Prokhor Zakharov posted:

http://www.history.org/foundation/journal/spring04/warfare.cfm

Byzantine posted:

That was in 1763, at an English fort in what is now Pennsylvania.

The plagues that ripped through the Americas killing off ~90% of the pre-Columbian population occurred centuries beforehand, almost immediately after contact in the 1490s. There's no evidence of the Spanish using biological warfare at that time, just showing up was enough.

Dylan16807 posted: