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I’ve been reading through the last 15 pages or so of this thread(too late, just accepted an offer but I had no leverage and don’t feel bad about living on the comp for a couple of years). My question is regarding non-competes which hopefully isn’t too off topic. I was unemployed for about 6mo between jobs but the company I start with on Monday is a customer of previous employer. I’ll be working directly with previous companies support team as a part of my new role. I’ve read all the paperwork I have from previous company and all I’ve got is that there is some sort of non compete agreement but I don’t have the details. I know they’re largely unenforceable but do software companies often have non competes with their customers? I think a couple of former coworkers went to work for partners/customers while I was there so my general feeling is no, but it would really suck to have to spend money on an attorney to keep this new job that I’m really excited about. Great thread btw
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Nov 16, 2018 22:53
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Tetramin posted:I’ve been reading through the last 15 pages or so of this thread(too late, just accepted an offer but I had no leverage and don’t feel bad about living on the comp for a couple of years).
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Nov 16, 2018 22:58
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Dik Hz posted:They oftentimes have non-poach agreements. But, given you were unemployed, it's unlikely to apply even if they have one. Doubly so if they fired or laid you off. Also, initiating a law suit against a current or recently former employee will result in a lot of damage to morale so it's not a thing reasonable companies take lightly. It might be worth the piece of mind to consult a local employment attorney and just lay out the scenario and ask her advice. A consult would probably be in the $100-$200 range. This can also be state dependent. In Mass a law was recently passed that limited how you could enforce a non-compete and provided some employee protections in the cases of layoffs/firing. Not a lawyer at all but something to keep in mind. If there's concern, you should get a consult as mentioned above, but it seems to me that whatever non-compete your employer had would only be enforceable with a direct competitor and I doubt your customers would be classified as such.
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Nov 16, 2018 23:09
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Tetramin posted:I’ve been reading through the last 15 pages or so of this thread(too late, just accepted an offer but I had no leverage and don’t feel bad about living on the comp for a couple of years).
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Nov 16, 2018 23:11
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Thanks for the responses, it basically confirms my own thoughts but maybe I’ll see if I can pick a lawyers brain just in case. My other question is regarding PTO(my next negotiation is gonna go way better now that I’ve read a lot of this thread). My offer letter and conversation with HR(over the phone) say 80 hours of pto, and after 3 years 120, accrued monthly(no rollover). Kind of lovely compared to last job but hey I need employment. Anyway, I received another document after completing the online onboarding(completed after I accepted the offer) that said 40 hours pto until your 2nd year, 80 in the 2nd year, and 120 in the 3rd. I feel like my offer letter contradicts this policy. It feels a little bit misleading to me for things to be presented this way. I’ll be asking the HR person I meet on day 1 about this but if the second document is what they say is law, can I bring up the offer letter to try and get 80 for the first 2 years? It’s not like I’ll tell them to pound sand and walk out if they say no...
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Nov 16, 2018 23:34
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Tetramin posted:Thanks for the responses, it basically confirms my own thoughts but maybe I’ll see if I can pick a lawyers brain just in case. Why would you wait until after you start? E-mail HR immediately and tell them that what you signed on the offer letter isn't what that document says, and if they can confirm that it will be fixed in the payroll system before you start.
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Nov 17, 2018 02:26
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interrodactyl posted:Why would you wait until after you start? E-mail HR immediately and tell them that what you signed on the offer letter isn't what that document says, and if they can confirm that it will be fixed in the payroll system before you start. Yeah, I received that paperwork yesterday evening and didn’t really process it until today(I start Monday the 19th). I sent everyone I’ve been in contact with an email about 30 minutes ago and hope they respond over the weekend..
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Nov 17, 2018 02:31
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Who cares about policy if your signed contract states you have 80 hours of PTO. If they say “oops our bad, it’s 40 hours” you get to renegotiate other things (like compensation) as well. If they push it, start searching for a new job straight away.
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Nov 19, 2018 10:55
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LochNessMonster posted:Who cares about policy if your signed contract states you have 80 hours of PTO. Yeah - I know it's not what you want to hear, but this wouldn't be something I could abide as the opening play of a new job. Your relationship with them right now is based solely on good will and, if this is more than a misunderstanding, they aren't showing any.
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Nov 19, 2018 11:10
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This could be the wrong thread, but since PTO keeps coming up I think this question is relevant. My employer is closed on New Years Eve this year (usually we are open but since it's sandwiched between a Sunday and NYD they decided to close) and they are forcing everyone to save a vacation day for this. Is this allowed it common at all? I suppose I understand limiting how many days you can roll over to the following year, but to me vacation time is part of my compensation. So for them to dictate that I need to use a day for what is a non-holiday is akin to them telling me.how to spend my paycheck.
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Nov 19, 2018 12:23
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Sock The Great posted:This could be the wrong thread, but since PTO keeps coming up I think this question is relevant. IANAL but if it doesn’t state this in your contract / HR documents, they probably aren’t allowed to do so. If you want to be sure, check with a lawyer. Where I live it’s pretty common to have contracts stating that company can appoint up to x (usually 3) mandatory days off that come from the employees leave balance. But we also get 21 days PTO (sick leave not included) by law and most companies give 23-28 days of PTO. With that many days hardly anyone makes a problem out of it and it’s usually days between bank holidays and the weekend so you get a mini vacation.
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Nov 19, 2018 13:22
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LochNessMonster posted:IANAL but if it doesn’t state this in your contract / HR documents, they probably aren’t allowed to do so. If you want to be sure, check with a lawyer. We also have a generous PTO offering (25 vacation + 5 sick), so I'm trying not to be too uptight about this aside from it's a complete change in the protocol vs. other years.
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Nov 19, 2018 14:55
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Sock The Great posted:We also have a generous PTO offering (25 vacation + 5 sick), so I'm trying not to be too uptight about this aside from it's a complete change in the protocol vs. other years. I can imagine that’s a strange surprise if they come up with this stuff out of the blue. You can always ask your manager to clarify this change in policy and if it’s a one time thing or if they’re planning to do this more often.
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Nov 19, 2018 16:35
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Sock The Great posted:This could be the wrong thread, but since PTO keeps coming up I think this question is relevant. A large fortune 500 corporation I worked for mandated taking PTO, or unpaid if you didn't have any left, for the week of Christmas except for Christmas day. They gave a years notice though.
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Nov 19, 2018 18:17
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I can't speak to the legality of compulsory PTO, but it reeks of bullshit. Either make it a company holiday or not. Corporate America is the worst.
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Nov 19, 2018 18:54
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We have a "mandatory" PTO day this holiday season but they're also gifting us 2 days. Though technically you can just work from home on the mandatory day and record the hours as work instead of vacation. No one else in the company would be working so I'm not sure what you would even do though.
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Nov 19, 2018 20:25
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bamhand posted:We have a "mandatory" PTO day this holiday season but they're also gifting us 2 days. Though technically you can just work from home on the mandatory day and record the hours as work instead of vacation. No one else in the company would be working so I'm not sure what you would even do though. "record the hours as work" and "no one...would be working" seem to mesh pretty well, though.
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Nov 19, 2018 20:58
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Sock The Great posted:This could be the wrong thread, but since PTO keeps coming up I think this question is relevant.
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Nov 19, 2018 23:03
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Read OP, but I'm not sure it answered my situation entirely. I'm working a retail-ish job and making let's say $13 an hour. The guy that's my friend but also district manager already has known that for months and is now just needing a store or assistant manager so it sucks that he knows my salary and that I'm hourly, not salaried (hourly is better for these jobs imo). Wtf do I do when they ask what I want to be paid? Do I be like, I want $17/hr cause that's what GMs at my other franchise made? Do I ball high? Should I ask what they're offering and be like "that's not enough"? Both jobs are drat hard btw so I want to be compensated.
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Nov 20, 2018 00:13
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Also on the PTO subject: I follow the Trump lol thread, and someone recommended this thread as a place to talk about workers’ options, wage theft and such. The tl; dr is I’m being told to “use it or lose it” wrt time off, and I can’t really use it. I’m looking for advice for alternatives, and also writing this might organize my thoughts. I apologize for the length. Background: I’m a senior scientist for a smallish outfit for an extremely niche service in the US. We’re privately-owned (ESOP) and no union exists for our industry. My technical job is leading edge, fun, and I’m paid ~15-25% more than my peers at my competitors. The downsides of the job are plentiful: long hours; senior staff being discouraged from taking vacations, being available for phone calls, emails at all hours, etc. We don’t have cross-training in effect for senior staff. I’m a specialist in a team of specialists working in an already niche industry. Client calls looking for service X, there’s no one else in the firm who can help them. If I’m not available to keep the projects flowing, the junior staff don’t work. This is a horribly-mismanaged company, yes, and I'm part of the problem. In my 11 years here there’s only been 1 manager retire, 2 fired, and one ragequit. I am the youngest manager by 20 years. My boss keeps telling me “I’m retiring in 2 years. They’ll be dead soon enough, just ride it out.” That’s been my plan (I really, really like the technical work) until… In August HR sent out a memo saying they were going to start capping vacation time, keeping payroll liability down. I’ve got 800 hours there, new cap will be 320 effective July 1 2019. I also earn PTO. You guys are going to laugh at me but I only earn PTO for weekends on the road, cap 8 per day. I have 700 hours of PTO. The sad math means in the last couple of years since I last burned my bank, I’ve worked 87 Saturdays or Sundays, in the field (which is remote, never local, and never an 8 hour day). I swear I enjoy the work. We’re now being told use it or lose the excess by Q3, 2019. The HR memo was suggested by our CFO, HR drafted it, and the President approved it. The memo ends with “we encourage you to use your vacation. Remember, PTO hours must be used before vacation hours.” If all the technical staff used their excess balance, cash-flow would full-stop and company would be out of business in 3 months. Yes, the rest of management told HR, CFO, and President they were idiots. Privately, President told another VP “anyone who actually uses all of that, I don’t want working here.” Yeah, he’s a charmer. I’m sitting on a draft “request for vacation” that says I’m leaving on Thanksgiving and they’ll see me again July 1. But they can’t afford to let me take that. My junior staff can be re-assigned for a couple of months (I’ve checked with the other department heads, found them projects to keep billable through January) but that’s pushing it. I don’t want these starry-eyed science dorks to get screwed because I was being a pissy middle-manager. Rest of the guys in the high excess category are just going to roll over. Coworker with 25 years in made a stand, said modify the policy or he’d resign and they called his bluff. They paid him out, though. That’s my Plan Z. I’m looking for alternative ideas. Thinking about “You can’t pay me that amount now lump sum. I’m overdue for a raise. How about I agree to forfeit X% of that, you pay me the balance spread out over the next 12 months as my new base pay with a minimum guarantee of X.” If someone has ideas, I’m all ears. Sorry for the ramble.
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Nov 20, 2018 00:26
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You just listed out a ton of ways the company sucks and is not trustworthy. I would be hesitant to cut a deal with those people. Do what the other guy did and get your 1500 hours paid out.
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Nov 20, 2018 00:37
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Exactly why can't they afford to pay you that lump sum? This sounds like an extremely nicehe industry which demands specialized skills. They should definitely be able to afford a one time payment of ~50% your annual salary to keep one of their best people from taking off from now through the summer.
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Nov 20, 2018 00:42
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I worked as a co-op for one of the largest tech companies in Canada in the 90s and one of the chief architects for their optical networking systems had banked over 6 months vacation. They told him they were gonna end banking it and had to take a payout or use it. The payout was capped at 4 weeks so he said gently caress you and took off for half the year which kneecapped the entire division. In short, companies can be dumb as gently caress.
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Nov 20, 2018 00:49
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a dingus posted:You just listed out a ton of ways the company sucks and is not trustworthy. I would be hesitant to cut a deal with those people. Do what the other guy did and get your 1500 hours paid out. That's the popular option. End the social experiment, take the money and run. A main reason I stay is that I can't do this level of work private sector in the US, or in Canada for anywhere near what I'm paid (I get offers time to time). There's a lot of ego here I am working through. Another option is to just suck it up, take a job I won't enjoy as much, work my 40-50hr/week and spend the second half of career not worrying about the technical part or advancement, but just focus on retirement. Eyeballing state gov't jobs for that one. Sock The Great posted:Exactly why can't they afford to pay you that lump sum? This sounds like an extremely nicehe industry which demands specialized skills. They should definitely be able to afford a one time payment of ~50% your annual salary to keep one of their best people from taking off from now through the summer. Sorry, that made the cutting room floor. (1) the company had a poo poo year (other division, the company darling, tanked), is pretty cash-poor and they can't pay me AND the rest of the high-balance people. If they do it for me, the other division heads would want their guys get the same treatment (rightly so) and they can't write all those checks at once. They let things get out of control in our boom years, and the current liability on the books is massive. They're expecting people to roll over and lose it. priznat posted:I worked as a co-op for one of the largest tech companies in Canada in the 90s and one of the chief architects for their optical networking systems had banked over 6 months vacation. They told him they were gonna end banking it and had to take a payout or use it. The payout was capped at 4 weeks so he said gently caress you and took off for half the year which kneecapped the entire division. The technical work is awesome. The rest of it is bullshit. Like worse than gov't dumb. We've been calling my time here my Grand Social Experiment. Not sure if I am researcher or subject. I've told my boss I might just take the 6 months, enjoy life, see what happens. He knows I'd be looking for another job during that time. I started cleaning out my office last week. Sorry, I know there’s a lot of ego in my post. I know everyone is replaceable. I can even suggest good options for my replacement. But the company won’t do it. They’re hurting for cash, and very short-sighted. In my case, they’ll make an argument to just close that profit center because bringing in an outsider to do my job is ~scary~ This happened at the last BOD meeting. Ragequit went out, they re-allocated his salary to Darling Division which is overbudget and to make their books look less-bad. His staff were redistributed. His two most junior guys weren’t laid off, but are hourly and haven’t worked in 2 months. It would be the same for my group. I actually want my balance to zero out. If I wait too long and the company goes bankrupt, then it is gone forever. If I can get it redistributed to a raise and ride that a while would be preferred. When the company bottoms out, we all say "Nice to know you." my regional office just changes the name on the door, does the same services without the darling division boat anchor. That's what I really want: same local team, same work, different company.
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Nov 20, 2018 02:07
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Sock The Great posted:Exactly why can't they afford to pay you that lump sum? This sounds like an extremely nicehe industry which demands specialized skills. They should definitely be able to afford a one time payment of ~50% your annual salary to keep one of their best people from taking off from now through the summer.  You and this company is not going to be a long term relationship - the writing is on the wall. Either view this as a smash-and-grab where you get as much as possible right now, or accept losing it forever. Jeffrey of YOSPOS fucked around with this message at 02:40 on Nov 20, 2018 |
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Nov 20, 2018 02:37
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Thin Privilege posted:Read OP, but I'm not sure it answered my situation entirely. I'm working a retail-ish job and making let's say $13 an hour. The guy that's my friend but also district manager already has known that for months and is now just needing a store or assistant manager so it sucks that he knows my salary and that I'm hourly, not salaried (hourly is better for these jobs imo). Wtf do I do when they ask what I want to be paid? Do I be like, I want $17/hr cause that's what GMs at my other franchise made? Do I ball high? Should I ask what they're offering and be like "that's not enough"? Both jobs are drat hard btw so I want to be compensated. ask for the moon while interviewing any and everywhere to get the gently caress out of retail
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Nov 20, 2018 02:47
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Thin Privilege posted:Read OP, but I'm not sure it answered my situation entirely. I'm working a retail-ish job and making let's say $13 an hour. The guy that's my friend but also district manager already has known that for months and is now just needing a store or assistant manager so it sucks that he knows my salary and that I'm hourly, not salaried (hourly is better for these jobs imo). Wtf do I do when they ask what I want to be paid? Do I be like, I want $17/hr cause that's what GMs at my other franchise made? Do I ball high? Should I ask what they're offering and be like "that's not enough"? Both jobs are drat hard btw so I want to be compensated. Well, you know what other people doing that job make, so that's solid. But what are you going to do if they say "no, you'll be getting paid this lesser amount"? Unless you have something else lined up you basically have no leverage.
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Nov 20, 2018 02:50
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There is no way that company lets you take six months off and I'd be very surprised if you got your PTO paid out when they fire you.
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Nov 20, 2018 03:03
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The second policy(40 hours) was just for their non corporate employees. 80 isn’t great but I can swing it for a year. Thanks for the advice
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Nov 20, 2018 03:15
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asur posted:There is no way that company lets you take six months off and I'd be very surprised if you got your PTO paid out when they fire you. Exactly. Which is why I'm looking for a reasonable negotiating point. I'm also talking to other firms, that would just be a sizeable paycut and require yet another relocation (8 times in 16 years now). A couple of years ago I mentioned resigning just to get my PTO and vacation paid out. Another manager at the time (ragequit) said we’re in a right-to-work state and they don’t have to pay out benefits. Accrued PTO yes, vacation and sick no. But every employee who has resigned has been paid out in full, or put on an extended leave to pay out over time. There’s precedence, but their exception might be that no one else had near the same number of hours on the books, and definitely not at my pay rate. In 2013 they offered to buy me out with gear instead of cash so I could start up my own shop. I declined. My boss has hinted they’ll try that again. I'm afraid I am Goon in the Well. Where's my shovel?
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Nov 20, 2018 03:15
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:I think it'd be a little cowardly to accept merely his current pay rate for the time off - this is his hard-earned vacation accrued over years. Charge them 1.5x at least. Yeah agreed. Just ask for everything and negotiate from there. Don't be the one to tell yourself no. I'd also do the math and see what you're at on a hypothetical hourly rate to put things in perspective. If you're getting 10-15% more but putting in 30% more work than another place, it's a trash deal and you're not being fairly compensated even though your paycheck is higher. Maybe you need that to make ends meet but for me, an extra 10% of my salary is not worth going from 40 to 50 hours a week (25% increase in worked time).
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Nov 20, 2018 03:25
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pumped up for school posted:In 2013 they offered to buy me out with gear instead of cash so I could start up my own shop..............Where's my shovel? You already found it and kept digging.
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Nov 20, 2018 03:28
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Motronic posted:You already found it and kept digging. The terms of that deal included some other negatives. Most notably agreeing to take over some long-term contracts that were dogs. New deal would be a clean break, no legacy stuff.
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Nov 20, 2018 03:56
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pumped up for school posted:The terms of that deal included some other negatives. Most notably agreeing to take over some long-term contracts that were dogs. Oh, so you were just handed a new shovel. Good for you. Look. I get changing jobs isn't optimal. But go back and read your own posts.
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Nov 20, 2018 04:02
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Mr Newsman posted:Yeah agreed. Thanks! I need that amount to make ends meet in my current location, yeah. For me to absorb a real paycut I need to move to a lower COL area. I've never actually known a 40 hour work week, and growing up my old man was a salaryman for a Japanese firm, my mom worked two jobs. To me long days are normal. One reason I'm thinking about a govt gig, do something complete different for the second half of my career. Better schedule,, better benefits. Sleep in my own bed most of the time.
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Nov 20, 2018 04:08
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Not saying you should stay but don't discount the quality of life improvement from actually enjoying your day to day work. I personally spiral into a bad funk when I'm bored at work and my performance suffers along with general satisfaction with life. I'd personally be afraid to settle on a slow, boring, safe govt job.
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Nov 20, 2018 04:37
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Motronic posted:Oh, so you were just handed a new shovel. Good for you. Oh sorry, misunderstood your original comment. Yeah the company is definitely a dog and I should get out. Whether it is while I'm on an extended vacation or with a nest egg of cushion. Like I said, typing it out was helpful. I think the best bet is to resign, cite the hr memo like ragequit, and tell them I expect the payout as shown by recent precedent. My boss will push back, been grumbling the reason he doesn't do same is fiduciary responsibility. The rest of the industry doesn't really know about the circus, and it looks good on a resume. It won't in a few more years without a complete management overhaul.
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Nov 20, 2018 04:49
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spf3million posted:Not saying you should stay but don't discount the quality of life improvement from actually enjoying your day to day work. That's why I stayed so long. The mismanagement stuff I didn't see while I was in the trenches. The "losing your PTO" memo was a bigger airhorn I guess. I'm not the only one who is looking for a job. When I was in my 20s and 30s I never wanted to do govt science. They drag poo poo out forever, spend a ton of money do it, then conclude with "we need more money for additional tests." A lot of my work is contracted by the us government, and when I get the review comments it just seems sad. Hard to explain. Now I'm terrified my retirement plan is to die at my desk and my view has changed.
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Nov 20, 2018 05:01
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NM!
Dr. Fraiser Chain fucked around with this message at 05:44 on Nov 20, 2018 |
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Nov 20, 2018 05:41
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pumped up for school posted:That's why I stayed so long. The mismanagement stuff I didn't see while I was in the trenches. Why do you have to go into government science? I have no idea what field you're in but there are probably tons of relevant/tangential options out there. I doubt that the government and your little outfit are the only people doing the research you want.
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Nov 20, 2018 13:37
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