|
No, no. It is my fault. I thought the point of these was that they were totally self contained except the water input and dealt with their heat and such. So having an outside battery I thought wasn't part of it. With the battery it works fine. Now it is producing excess hydrogen that I can move out.
Sillybones fucked around with this message at 05:36 on Nov 19, 2018 |
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 05:32
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 21:25 |
|
|
Sillybones posted:No, no. It is my fault. I thought the point of these was that they were totally self contained except the water input and dealt with their heat and such. So having an outside battery I thought wasn't part of it. With the battery it works fine. Now it is producing excess hydrogen that I can move out. I take the blame for not mentioning that, sorry. It's totally an important part but I forgot to make sure to include it's importance when explaining it to people who havent built one. Doing a proper effortpost now to cover everything so I can just link back to it when needed and its not all confusing and piecemeal.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 05:36
|
|
|
I just brought in my ninth dupe at cycle 300. I'm currently at a loss as what to do right now. I'm close to space, but haven't broken through, although i can see a section where meteors are crashing. i have gotten down to oil but haven't set up any production yet. I've uncovered the copper volcano and an waiting for it to become active again. I can't really sustain dupes on higher level jobs yet because I'm still eating mushrooms. I have no idea how to efficiently set up an oil refinery or how to use the CO2 geyser i found. I'm a bit I'm maintenance mode right now just doing small expression projects and exploring to the right side of the base since i haven't done that yet.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 05:45
|
|
|
If you want a suggestion, pakman, according to my usual sequence your next two big steps are getting a steady supply of pincha peppers for better food, and working towards making plastic. My oil refineries always have heat problems, and I’ve never tapped a co2 geyser, though. Can’t help there.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 05:57
|
|
|
pakman posted:I just brought in my ninth dupe at cycle 300. you can ignore the CO2 geyser. you have a billion other ways of generating CO2 as a byproduct. oil production is pretty easy. here's my setup:  Basically, crude oil is converted into petroleum by the dupes. Some of it is used by polymer presses to make plastic. The excess is dumped into the bottom chamber, which also has a small molten slickster ranch. This is optional, but nice to have because they "eat" CO2 and poo poo out petroleum. The refinery room has a gas pump at the top right that basically harvests the natural gas byproduct and stores it in tanks, which feed into NG generators. The generators are offline most of the time, but if the petroleum levels go below a certain amount, the petroleum generator shuts down and the NG generators come online. Note that some of that is not shown in the screenshot as its from another "branch" of saves.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 05:57
|
|
|
My version of the SPOM explained: This is my SPOM made in sandbox mode. No different from the regular version just the water and hydrogen tanks are attached for ease of understanding. I change some stuff from the regular SPOM design to fix a few issues and simplify some others. To explain what it is to anyone who doesn't know, the basic idea of a SPOM is to produce the most oxygen and hydrogen possible from an electrolyzer while not requiring any outside power or additional input once it is set up. It is also designed to cool the oxygen down to dupe comfortable levels from the 70C that an electrolyzer produces naturally. A running electrolyzer produces 1000 grams per second of gas, 880 grams of oxygen and 112 grams of hydrogen. That is enough oxygen to supply 8.8 dupes and feed 1.12 hydrogen generators running constantly, using 1000 g/s of water to run. Round down to 8 and 1 for safety, but that's the full math. To make an electrolyzer run efficiently you need to move the gasses away from it very quickly or the gas around the electrolyzer will overpressurize and the machine will turn off, meaning less hydrogen and oxygen made than possible per cycle. A SPOM works to solve all of this at one time, and does so when set up correctly. You can look up the original SPOM on the Klei forums and see different ideas based around it, for this post I'm just going to cover my changes to the design to keep it short(lol). 1. I use one of the later designs from the Klei SPOM thread that uses a metal door as the separator and a much more confined pump/electrolyzer area. This design seems to have no issues with gasses entering the wrong pumps when running, something the original does. I'm pretty sure the much smaller area for the gasses to move around is why this is the case. 2. I add mechanical doors on a clock timer so that I can vacuum all gasses out of both sections without any outside input. This means I can get everything to full vacuum once I disable the manual airlocks after completing construction/sweeping. When the thing is first built and sealed, it will be filled with random gasses. The clock sensor lets you to open the airlocks without a dupe entering. Add power to run the pumps, but not the electrolyzer (i.e. don't connect the water line to the source). The pumps will expel all the gasses in both sections to a vacuum, which is exactly what you want before turning on the electrolyzer. Once this is done, use the clock sensor to shut the doors forever. Now hook up the water and run it. Once the generator is getting hydrogen (the vent explained below is overpressurized), it will run by itself forever. (EDIT: that vent also ensures no gas but hydrogen ever hits the generator because it can’t bypass it till overpressure.) 3. I have a generally more complex piping system to manage the hydrogen better, which I will outline fully below. 4. I use granite tempshift plates to balance the temperature across both confined spaces to keep both sides cool. This regulates the wheezewort driven temperature to 10-15C ( it can go much lower otherwise) and also keeps the machines from getting so hot they need to made from gold amalgam. This part is optional but I prefer it as it's 100% hands off this way. The metal tiles are the same idea, replacing them with regular tile is fine. I prefer the look of mesh tiles to airflow tiles, those are interchangeable in those spots. I tend to leave manual airlocks in place as a way to let dupes back in if needed but they can be replaced with insulated tile to drive the overall temperature a bit lower (no cold leaking through the doors). 5. I have the generator on bottom and the wheezes on top, this was originally because I thought hydrogen density mattered for cooling but now its just cause I think the piping works out better. ---- Power  This is what your power setup will look like. The first thing you might notice is that is way more power being used than the 800W of the hydrogen can produce, but it's actually not. You will end up with excess power and therefore hydrogen, which I'll cover below. Why it doesn't is that the mechanical doors are only active before the thing is running, they will be permanently locked by the clock sensor once it is, and draw no power. The top pump will only run about 10-20% of the time because of the atmo sensors, so you really only pull about 600w regularly. That's what the smart battery up top is for. You actually produce enough excess power to power a pump driving the water to the electrolyzer if you so wanted, because it also doesn't run at 100% uptime. The manual generator at the top is to start the whole process before the hydrogen generator is fueled. You can use outside sources but I find this to be easiest. You actually produce enough excess hydrogen because of the smart battery to run a 2nd hydrogen generator, also visible on top there. This power can be used however you want. --- Gas management  Ignore the pipe colors in terms of build materials, its just to highlight the pathing. Everything can and should be made from granite regular piping. This part is quietly the most important part to a successful SPOM, so if there is one thing you want to take away from this post it's understanding what the 2 gasses are doing. The bottom 2 pumps are for oxygen, the top 1 for hydrogen. This is to ensure you can handle all 1000g/s of gas created properly. The design of the SPOM will split the gasses up so you don't need a filter, but 3 pumps is the minimum that can handle the gas made since each pump can only handle 500 g/s and the amount made is uneven across the 2 gasses. Once the pumps are working right, the piping is equally important. I use a winding set of pipes from both pump groups to make this happen. The oxygen pipe leaves the 2 oxygen pumps so that there are extra tiles between where the pumps are and where the two outputs join together into 1. This is so the gas doesn't stop immediately next to the pump when they are trying to merge, as this shuts the pump off till it can move. 1 extra tile of pipe, like the little turn to the left of the outputs there, is enough to fix this. That pipe is then wound past the wheezeworts, where the granite piping allows the oxygen to be cooled off before leaving. The hydrogen pipe is quite a bit more complicated, but simple once you understand it. I've color coded the 3 seperate paths the hydrogen can take: 1. White - The white line is your primary line, this is the first place any hydrogen will flow, guaranteed by how bridges work.The first input on this line after the bridge is a vent, this is to fill the wheezewort area up with hydrogen as that is necessary to drive the cooling from the wheezeworts. Hydrogen is by far the best gas for wheezewort cooling because of its properties, making this a very important step. Once the room is at 2k pressure throughout, the vent will overpressurize and stop working. Then gas will then ignore it and flow to the generator, building up excess on the white line till it reaches the start of the bridge. It will then flow to the 2. Orange - Same thing as the first line just to a different hydrogen generator. Because the generators are hooked up to batteries and do not run constantly, they will build up charges of hydrogen. The long lines leading to them are so you have reserves built up when the generator does need to run again, this keeps it from ever starving itself and shutting off. Once this line is full, it runs to the 3. Yellow - This line exists so that the hydrogen always has some place to go, otherwise the line will back up all the way to the hydrogen pump and turn it off, ruining everything. This line can be run to an AETN or just a holding tank, as visible above. This is what it will look like in an actual game. Note that nothing about the piping or placement of the external parts (batteries, etc) are set in stone, you can change it to your needs as you see fit, like flipping the whole SPOM horizontally. You just need the inputs and outputs to end in the right places.  --- Water  Not a lot here, just insulate the pipe coming in so you aren't adding unnecessary heat to the thing. The electrolyzer will take clean water at any temperature, the output is always 70C. Use that to your advantage. --- Automation  Atmo sensors to the pumps, both set to 250. You can play with that number a bit but 250 seems to be perfect. Clock sensor to the doors, 100% on while first vacuuming out the room, 100% off when done with that part. Generators to each of their batteries, so you get the extra hydrogen out of the system. As an optional thing, You can actually wire the second hydrogen generator to the SPOM battery with a NOT gate, so that it runs whenever the SPOM battery is off, this will eat up all the hydrogen made and you won't need an extra line or storage tank, but it's also a bit wasteful. Another optional thing is that one electrolyzer only uses 1000 g/s and a water line can send far more than that, so with good valve placement you can run several SPOMs off 1 water pump or sieve. This setup when running should produce somewhere between 490 and 520kg of oxygen per cycle, out of 528kg possible from a perfect electrolyzer, which is enough for 8 dupes (60kg each) and some change. If any of the lines get backed up or you missed any step, you will likely drop from this number, and drop quickly. Mazz fucked around with this message at 08:18 on Nov 19, 2018 |
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 07:11
|
|
|
 How do I get these two volcanoes to stop melting all the equipment at the steam vent? Together they make the temp in there something like 200 celc. I want to harvest the metals obviously but also vent the heat somehow. The two thermal-nullifiers on the map are already busy.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 09:12
|
|
|
Wrap the volcanos in double width insulated tile. The second layer will transfer very little heat to the outside world because they both have such low conductivity. Also once it gets hot you can just tear down the outer layer and replace it to reset the cycle. Leave the abyssalite parts, it’s better than insulated tile. Trying to get the material out every eruption is probably an exercise in frustration, just let it build up for a bit, then punch a hole, grab all the metal, and seal it back up. Put all the metal in a big tank of water to cool it down before using it. There’s not great ways to cool volcanos regularly without a ton of wheezeworts or AETNs or whatever, so it’s best to just contain them in insulation and come back to them later when you want to try crazy poo poo. Having them open to air/regular tile might’ve already done too much damage in terms of latent heat in that area without some very dedicated cooling, just a warning. Also what is the seed number for that map? It should show up in the esc window. Mazz fucked around with this message at 09:28 on Nov 19, 2018 |
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 09:19
|
|
|
Mazz posted:Wrap the volcanos in double width insulated tile. The second layer will transfer very little heat to the outside world because they both have such low conductivity. Also once it gets hot you can just tear down the outer layer and replace it to reset the cycle. Leave the abyssalite parts, it’s better than insulated tile. That worked great. The Volcanoes are now like 300 celc but the walls a cool 50. Seed: 1478153382 On another note I had a cold storage in an ice biome for cooling metals and with surprising speed the dupes filled it with 300 celc copper and now the whole thing is melting 
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 12:21
|
|
|
Yeah honestly the ice biome is good for early cooling stuff like radiator loops, but anything serious will overwhelm its cold since you’re relying on the latent cold mass of the space, which is eventually finite. I tend to just ignore cold biomes as anything but a source of wheezeworts and ice now. Having a big water tank you put the metal in will work better, giant liquid tanks do not change temperature quickly because of mass/thermal capacity, so that 60t of 300C iron you add will change the temperature of the pool of water by 3-5C while the iron will drop 270C in a few cycles. If it’s a slush geyser pool its even better, the geyser will offset the heat added in like less than one eruption cycle. The bigger the tank, the less the iron changes its temperature. While the (polluted) water is technically also temperature limited it basically exists to be heated and then destroyed somewhere so you are much more productively deleting heat when dumping it in a giant tank that’ll be used eventually. Alternatively your poo poo water tank will work too, it will start killing the germs once up at like 75C+, and the iron will get down to usable temperatures in time so long as you don’t add too much hellmetal for the volume of liquid present. Free tepidizer. EDIT: my phone cannot do its and it’s and I’m a lovely proofreader which doesn’t help anything Mazz fucked around with this message at 16:08 on Nov 19, 2018 |
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 14:44
|
|
|
How the hell do you make steel? It doesn't show up in the forge. Or do I need to use a fancy forge, like the molecular smelter?
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 16:31
|
|
|
Enraged_camel what you consider easy and what I consider easy are so far apart it makes my head hurt 😀 Just wish I could think the way you and others who’ve mastered this game think. I’m not dumb but whatever intellectual gifts I have are not in this area. Still love the game anyway, close to 1000 hours now.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 16:46
|
|
|
User0015 posted:How the hell do you make steel? It doesn't show up in the forge. Or do I need to use a fancy forge, like the molecular smelter? It's the metal refinery, it needs lime + refined carbon + refined iron. Lime comes from the granulator, with eggshells or fossil. Refined carbon comes from the kiln.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 16:48
|
|
|
insta posted:It's the metal refinery, it needs lime + refined carbon + refined iron. Lime comes from the granulator, with eggshells or fossil. Refined carbon comes from the kiln. Does it only show up in the refinery if you've made the components before hand? Am I missing something and it needs to be researched? The only things I can refine are the 4 base ores: Copper, Iron, Gold, Wolframite.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 18:15
|
|
|
Yeah, you need some of all 3 ingredients to exist in your inventory thing for it to show, a weird/dumb restriction.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 18:33
|
|
|
drat I am struggling with cooling liquids so I can make steel. I had a source of 13 celc water from one of the cold biomes. I ran it through the metal refiner sitting in a 40 celc biome and it output about 80 degree water. I sent that through a large pool of 30 degree water and the water pipe come out at around 30. Pretty good I thought so i made a circuit of that. Pretty soon the anti-entropy nullifier was overwhelmed and the 13 degree input water became 30. This caused the output water to turn into steam, break the pipes and start breaking the metal refinery. After the refinery collapsed I decided to build a new one out of ceramic. When my dupes deconstructed the refinery the result was a massive steam explosion. 200 celc steam radiated outwards in a steam halo with a diameter of about 30 blocks. It destroyed all equipment in a huge area from overheating and left the biome lingering at 100 degrees celc afterwards. Edit: Lost my main source of power (natural gas) because meteor showers peeled away the planets crusted and started tunnelling into the mountain. 
Katt fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Nov 19, 2018 |
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 18:43
|
|
|
How much should I cool the air to keep my dupes comfortable? Is 30 degrees C a good target?
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 18:46
|
|
|
21C, plus that's good farm temperature for everything but balm lillies or pinchas.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 19:05
|
|
|
Katt posted:
You’re supposed to have lots of steel for bunker tiles when you work towards the surface, they can stop the meteors. This whole part is kind of tedious and stupid but necessary. It is a contributor to my burning out for sure though, it feels very forced once you notice how much the meteors can eat away if ignored. Going to make steel production a higher priority my next game or see if the next patch does anything about it. Mazz fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Nov 19, 2018 |
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 20:10
|
|
|
Mazz posted:You’re supposed to have lots of steel for bunker tiles when you work towards the surface, they can stop the meteors. This whole part is kind of tedious and stupid but necessary. It is a contributor to my burning out for sure though, it feels very forced once you notice how much the meteors can eat away if ignored. It's where the natural gas vent was so I didn't have much of a choice Am I reading the info on the liquid reservoir right? Does it store 5 cubic meters of water while taking up 6 cubic meters of space?
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 20:29
|
|
|
Does anyone have any tips for making the game run more smoothly? On max speed at cycle 800 I'm getting 10-15 fps but none of my computer's resources appear to ever get close to maxing out. CPU, GPU and RAM are always < 50% use, usually <40%. With the way asteroids work, you pretty much have to dig down and get fossils to make enough steel before going to the surface and building bunker tiles across the top. After you've done that you can get a ton of power from solar energy though.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 21:28
|
|
|
Katt posted:It's where the natural gas vent was so I didn't have much of a choice Yes, but you can also store it in a 6-cubic-meter tank of water, so you can technically fit 11 cubic meters in there...
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 21:54
|
|
|
insta posted:Yes, but you can also store it in a 6-cubic-meter tank of water, so you can technically fit 11 cubic meters in there... What about my immersion?
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 22:31
|
|
|
We just told you, the tank is immersed in the water. 
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 22:34
|
|
|
Started a new map. Natural gas geyser, cool steam geyser and four thimble reeds (no need to touch slime) on the edge of the starter biome Ha-ell yes.
Katt fucked around with this message at 23:35 on Nov 19, 2018 |
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2018 23:28
|
|
|
Katt posted:drat I am struggling with cooling liquids so I can make steel. Now this is the kind of thing I want to hear. Don't use water to cool your refinery. Use pw and delete the heat, or use oil/petrol and then consume it for power.
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2018 00:09
|
|
|
Mod the game to remove all heat deleters. It is good. Everything works reasonably.
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2018 00:43
|
|
|
Ok, I got the SPOM up and running. The wheezeworts don't seem to be doing enough cooling, though. Maybe it's because I'm piping in the water straight from the cool steam geyser? If I turn off the SPOM the will slooooowly cool down but as soon as I spin it up it heats up and I'm spewing out hot oxygen instead of cold oxygen
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2018 02:23
|
|
|
Are the wheezeworts in hydrogen gas, which gives them a working 'fluid' to cool down so the pipes that run through the same gas can transfer their content's heat?
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2018 02:28
|
|
|
Vent everything into motherfuckin’ space
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2018 02:36
|
|
t
|
Sillybones posted:Mod the game to remove all heat deleters. It is good. Everything works reasonably. I'd love to get rid of the water sieve as a heat deleter. It would simplify a lot of things. There are too many heat deleters to get rid of all of them, but the biggest culprits are the water sieve and the electrolyzer. I'm fine with wheezeworts/AETN. The steam turbine needs an overhaul in general. Nobody is going to go through the effort of preheating coal so as to make the coal generator a heat sink.
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2018 02:45
|
|
|
Smiling Demon posted:I'd love to get rid of the water sieve as a heat deleter. It would simplify a lot of things. I don't know about solid products, but anything that uses water or gas just adds or removes an amount of heat instead of having a fixed output. It is good. Other good mods: Camera zoom out. Rotating continuous recipes. Gas element overlay.
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2018 04:43
|
|
|
Sillybones posted:I don't know about solid products, but anything that uses water or gas just adds or removes an amount of heat instead of having a fixed output. It is good. Gas element overlay, I've needed that several times. As for machine products, fun fact with the petroleum generator: its outputs, like several other devices, are at the temperature of the generator. Unlike the natural gas generator none of its outputs are piped. This means you can cool it ridiculously and have it make -150C polluted ice/solid CO2. No, I can't really think of why you would want to.
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2018 06:10
|
|
|
That means you get it cool enough and it would cool itself? And then runaway get colder? This is great. Edit: Nope. But it certainly does as he said. Sillybones fucked around with this message at 06:55 on Nov 20, 2018 |
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2018 06:37
|
|
|
What are the best ways to get poo poo really cold? Is it just cycling through an AETN? I’ve never really done much in that direction (or any of the real late game stuff) Also where do you guys decent mods? Steam looks like all language packs or lovely trainers.
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2018 06:38
|
|
|
It wouldn't cool itself, it always outputs at the temperature of the generator. The generator also creates some heat itself so it would be a net heating effect and need external cooling It'd also be a pain to not freeze the incoming petroleum.
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2018 06:39
|
|
|
Mazz posted:What are the best ways to get poo poo really cold? Is it just cycling through an AETN? I’ve never really done much in that direction (or any of the real late game stuff)
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2018 10:04
|
|
|
Mazz posted:What are the best ways to get poo poo really cold? Is it just cycling through an AETN? I’ve never really done much in that direction (or any of the real late game stuff) To get things really cold you need to use the thermoregulator or the thermal aquatuner. The trick is to manage any phase changes safely. You could cool something like hydrogen, which remains a gas until very low temperatures, then use that hydrogen to cool something else, such as oxygen. Alternatively, you could use liquid/gas valves. Pipes only break on phase change if they are carrying more than 10% of their max capacity. If you send a liquid/gas into a valve set at 10% capacity and then the appropriate thermal cooler then the pipes won't break - as long as you vent the output and never allow that pipe to back up. You could use this method to liquefy hydrogen if you don't mind the fact that you'll likely have to split the output over 10 valves/regulators in the end. There is a space material, supercoolant, intended to be used to help with cooling. Unfortunately it is extremely late game and last time I checked prohibitively difficult to get in useful quantities. Smiling Demon fucked around with this message at 12:57 on Nov 20, 2018 |
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2018 12:54
|
|
|
what happens when a liquid freezes in a pipe? I want to cool hydrogen down to its condensation point, but I've got no idea if it'll rupture the gas pipes when it turns into a liquid. how do I even take it in it's liquid form and deposit it in a reservoir?
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2018 12:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 21:25 |
|
|
Qubee posted:what happens when a liquid freezes in a pipe? I want to cool hydrogen down to its condensation point, but I've got no idea if it'll rupture the gas pipes when it turns into a liquid. how do I even take it in it's liquid form and deposit it in a reservoir? If there is more than 1kg of stuff in the pipe segment it breaks. If there is 1kg or less it moves as if it hasn't changed state until vented. For gases the limit is 100g.
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2018 12:59
|
|