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Stuporstar
May 5, 2008

Where do fists come from?

Screaming Idiot posted:

Why they hands so big

Why

You know why

:getin:

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anime was right
Jun 27, 2008

death is certain
keep yr cool

Screaming Idiot posted:

Why they hands so big

Why

because the yaoi audience finds large hands attractive

SelenicMartian
Sep 14, 2013

Sometimes it's not the bomb that's retarded.

It's hard to grasp those stacks of DVDs otherwise.

anime was right
Jun 27, 2008

death is certain
keep yr cool

SelenicMartian posted:

It's hard to grasp those stacks of DVDs otherwise.

this is a good joke that i appreciate. thank you.

FormerPoster
Aug 5, 2004

Hair Elf

anime was right posted:

because the yaoi audience finds large hands attractive

yaoi people must love tf2

feedmyleg
Dec 25, 2004

Nae! posted:

yaoi people must love tf2

And Jack Reacher

https://twitter.com/toyns/status/1023041773914992642

Safety Biscuits
Oct 21, 2010

More like Jack Reacheround

anime was right
Jun 27, 2008

death is certain
keep yr cool

Nae! posted:

yaoi people must love tf2

and street fighter

Fruity20
Jul 28, 2018

Do you believe in magic, Tenno?
can you take a overdone idea and make it interesting? i've been using too many as of late. notably the 7 deadly sins as themes for a series of short stories.

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









Fruity20 posted:

can you take a overdone idea and make it interesting? i've been using too many as of late. notably the 7 deadly sins as themes for a series of short stories.

yes

Screaming Idiot
Nov 26, 2007

JUST POSTING WHILE JERKIN' MY GHERKIN SITTIN' IN A PERKINS!

BEATS SELLING MERKINS.
Glusttony: Can't Stop Eating rear end

anime was right
Jun 27, 2008

death is certain
keep yr cool

Screaming Idiot posted:

Glusttony: Can't Stop Eating rear end

Pride: Can't Stop Flaunting rear end
Lust: Can't Stop Needing rear end
Greed: Can't Stop Owning rear end
Wrath: Can't Stop Mooning rear end
Envy: Can't Stop Wanting Another rear end
Sloth: Can't Get Off rear end

Axel Serenity
Sep 27, 2002
A new series by Chuck Tingle

Djeser
Mar 22, 2013


it's crow time again

Fruity20 posted:

can you take a overdone idea and make it interesting? i've been using too many as of late. notably the 7 deadly sins as themes for a series of short stories.

nope, once an idea is used it's gone forever. authors don't like to think about it but we reached Peak Ideas back around 200 CE and we've just been recycling everything ever since

Screaming Idiot
Nov 26, 2007

JUST POSTING WHILE JERKIN' MY GHERKIN SITTIN' IN A PERKINS!

BEATS SELLING MERKINS.

Djeser posted:

nope, once an idea is used it's gone forever. authors don't like to think about it but we reached Peak Ideas back around 200 CE and we've just been recycling everything ever since

Unironically this, only for Hollywood

Fruity20
Jul 28, 2018

Do you believe in magic, Tenno?
I just feel like I'm struggling to find something that feels familiar but is different enough to stand on its own merits.

anime was right
Jun 27, 2008

death is certain
keep yr cool

Fruity20 posted:

I just feel like I'm struggling to find something that feels familiar but is different enough to stand on its own merits.

how you write it is what makes it different!!

everyone can write the same thing, but everyone will execute it differently. thats what makes it yours.

Screaming Idiot
Nov 26, 2007

JUST POSTING WHILE JERKIN' MY GHERKIN SITTIN' IN A PERKINS!

BEATS SELLING MERKINS.
Just tell the story you want to tell. Even if it's one that's been told a thousand times before -- and it will be -- you may tell it in a different way.

flerp
Feb 25, 2014
i think a strong way of using familiar tropes and what not is that they can be used as shorthand so the author can get to something more interesting. for example, when we say elves and dwarves, we dont really need to describe them anymore because theyre pretty culturally ingrained into our minds. so instead of wasting your time writing about how elves love nature and dwarves are drunkards, you can just say "there are elves and dwarves," let the reader fill in the gap, and then do something more interesting with that setting.

Screaming Idiot
Nov 26, 2007

JUST POSTING WHILE JERKIN' MY GHERKIN SITTIN' IN A PERKINS!

BEATS SELLING MERKINS.
It's even more fun to take what the reader expects and use it to gently caress with them. Like, what if the elves really love nature, like to the point of being barely humanoid, feral predators who can mimic human behavior juuuuust long enough to lure them to their burrow for a fun evening of dismemberment and fine dining? I did that in one of my stories with a guy who has an "elf sanctuary" in California, and I got some fun moments out of it.

Wungus
Mar 5, 2004

anime was right posted:

how you write it is what makes it different!!

everyone can write the same thing, but everyone will execute it differently. thats what makes it yours.
That's a pretty great TD prompt, or idea for a compilation; everybody's given the same character and base story and has to write it gooder than everyone else.

McSlaughter
Sep 12, 2013

"Kill white people and get paid for it? What's not to like?"
Good article. Muy perspectiva.

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









Screaming Idiot posted:

Just tell the story you want to tell. Even if it's one that's been told a thousand times before -- and it will be -- you may tell it in a different way.

All writing is variations on a theme. The art is finding what the explicit and implicit knobs are and twiddling them until you find something that interests you. Everything is either what the reader expects or what they don't expect, it's your job to know which is which.

Melusine
Sep 5, 2013

Following up on the topic of race from the last page, one thing to keep in mind is that while it's totally cool if you don't want to mention anyone's race, you should be prepared for your readers to (fairly) assume everyone in your book is white.

Since the "default" race in Western literature is white, readers (including non-white readers) have been trained to take the absence of race as an indicator of whiteness—and even if the reader doesn't presume that, they're still likely to take that as the author's intent. This goes hand-in-hand with the issue discussed earlier regarding only non-white people having their race mentioned, but that's squarely a writer issue, not just a reader issue.

The above might not be an issue to some people, but I think it's worth keeping in mind.

Melusine fucked around with this message at 03:29 on Nov 23, 2018

Rogue AI Goddess
May 10, 2012

I enjoy the sight of humans on their knees.
That was a joke... unless..?
Apart from "stay in your lane" and "do your research", do you have any recommendations or tips on using a fictional device to respectfully represent a real-world struggle?

For example, if I want to use digital uploading of human consciousness as a metaphor for gender transition, what should I pay attention to in order to avoid inadvertently telling the world's longest attack helicopter joke?

Lead out in cuffs
Sep 18, 2012

"That's right. We've evolved."

"I can see that. Cool mutations."




Ephemeron posted:

Apart from "stay in your lane" and "do your research", do you have any recommendations or tips on using a fictional device to respectfully represent a real-world struggle?

For example, if I want to use digital uploading of human consciousness as a metaphor for gender transition, what should I pay attention to in order to avoid inadvertently telling the world's longest attack helicopter joke?

Ask someone whose struggle you're trying to represent.

(This is the advice).

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









Ephemeron posted:

Apart from "stay in your lane" and "do your research", do you have any recommendations or tips on using a fictional device to respectfully represent a real-world struggle?

For example, if I want to use digital uploading of human consciousness as a metaphor for gender transition, what should I pay attention to in order to avoid inadvertently telling the world's longest attack helicopter joke?

Write it, then show it to someone you think is appropriate.

You need to be brave, you shouldn't go looking for permission.

Exmond
May 31, 2007

Writing is fun!

Ephemeron posted:

Apart from "stay in your lane" and "do your research", do you have any recommendations or tips on using a fictional device to respectfully represent a real-world struggle?

For example, if I want to use digital uploading of human consciousness as a metaphor for gender transition, what should I pay attention to in order to avoid inadvertently telling the world's longest attack helicopter joke?

I feel personally attacked

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3845416&userid=117687&perpage=40&pagenumber=3#post488270886

Djeser
Mar 22, 2013


it's crow time again

Don't make it a metaphor, make it its own thing. That isn't to say you can't write about uploading digital consciousness as informed by the process of gender transition, but if uploading is literally just a cipher for transitioning, why aren't you just writing a story about transitioning? Perhaps more importantly, if your story is equating the two, that opens you up to a whole host of unfortunate implications. Draw parallels, sure; make a story that says "isn't it funny that we still struggle with self-determination". But make sure you're actually writing about uploading digital consciousness. Give it things that aren't just a metaphor for transitioning. Make it different, but relatable.

In a similar vein, make sure your story has a point beyond "uploading is like transitioning, isn't that weird?" That's an easy trap to fall into when you're writing stories with A Point, and I've seen it even in published short stories, where people will be so focused on the 'clever' thing their story does that they forget to give the reader another reason to keep reading beyond "do you get it??"

Lead out in cuffs
Sep 18, 2012

"That's right. We've evolved."

"I can see that. Cool mutations."





Lol that story of yours was the first thing I thought of too.



Ephemeron posted:

Apart from "stay in your lane" and "do your research", do you have any recommendations or tips on using a fictional device to respectfully represent a real-world struggle?

For example, if I want to use digital uploading of human consciousness as a metaphor for gender transition, what should I pay attention to in order to avoid inadvertently telling the world's longest attack helicopter joke?

Djeser did a pretty good job of breaking down the problems with equating consciousness upload with gender transition, but I wanted to riff off that.

I've seen at least one webcomic by a transgender author that used themes of transhumanism as a vehicle for exploring gender identity. However, that was less "uploading your consciousness is like gender transition", and more "gender transition as we have it now really is *not at all* like uploading your consciousness, and that sucks".

While the medical side of gender reassignment has come a long way, trans people have to live with the reality that they will likely never have the full reproductive machinery that cis people of their gender have. A world that has uploading of human consciousness (and by extension downloading/"resleeving" of human consciousness) is a world in which transgender people can have a body (or virtual construct) that completely matches their gender.

Rogue AI Goddess
May 10, 2012

I enjoy the sight of humans on their knees.
That was a joke... unless..?
Thank you.

Pham Nuwen
Oct 30, 2010



I've listened to several seasons of Writing Excuses but every time I listen, I dislike Howard Tayler a little more... especially since I've now actually looked at Schlock Mercenary. I also find it's pretty heavily focused on fantasy and supernatural YA which aren't really my bag, baby.

Any other interesting writing podcasts? If it helps steer recommendations, I've found Writing Excuses to be at its best when they're talking about techniques and skills (use of POV, dialog mechanics, etc), and at its worst when talking about actual story ideas (the prompts are dire).

anime was right
Jun 27, 2008

death is certain
keep yr cool

Pham Nuwen posted:

I've listened to several seasons of Writing Excuses but every time I listen, I dislike Howard Tayler a little more... especially since I've now actually looked at Schlock Mercenary. I also find it's pretty heavily focused on fantasy and supernatural YA which aren't really my bag, baby.

Any other interesting writing podcasts? If it helps steer recommendations, I've found Writing Excuses to be at its best when they're talking about techniques and skills (use of POV, dialog mechanics, etc), and at its worst when talking about actual story ideas (the prompts are dire).

he was on one of the panels i attended at worldcon and he literally spent like 30 minutes talking about nothing

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔
Hello everybody! I have recently decided to take up writing again, just as a hobby. However, I have always been confident enough in my hobbies to share them, and I'd like to do that for my writing as well...eventually. Thus, before I have even put a single word of a first draft down, I'm faced with a bit of an conundrum: I'm a native German, not English speaker, and wonder which language I should write in.

Pros for writing in German:
- Obviously I should know the language better
- If I do produce a manuscript that's, like, super good and cool, I could send it to national publishers

Cons for writing in German:
- I haven't spent time in Germany for a while now and do most of my other (professional) writing in English. Also, I read almost exclusively in English now. I might actually have forgotten how to write elegant German sentences
- Every German friend I could ask for feedback, including my mom, knows English. If I post something here, it better be in English

Pros for writing in English:
- I have a lot of experience in scientific writing by now, am reasonably quick at producing papers and it's almost fun. So while it's not my native language, I feel very confident in it, though my style might (obviously) be a little bit dry and overly detailed
- See feedback above, just a vastly bigger audience
- If I self-publish eventually, I probably could do that via German channels as well, but there's vastly more resources and again audience in English

Cons for writing in English:
- style might be too influenced by my science writing, and I might do a lot of dumb subtle mistakes because I am, after all, not native
- if I do end up producing amazing work, I can't publish it "normally" in Germany, which might be an issue

Overall, I'm leaning heavily towards starting in English because most of my reservations against it depend on my product being so amazing that I'd eventually be able to hand it to a publisher. And if that does happen, I could of course just translate it, but that sounds like a pain in the dickhole.


So anyway...I'd be happy to hear a few opinions on that. If you think that's too complicated an issue, I can of course just start a new thread (I hope the question is fine in this one to begin with). It might also be that this is a common issue for e.g. native Spanish speakers and has been discussed to death, if so I'd be happy with a link to previously made arguments :). Thanks a lot!

feedmyleg
Dec 25, 2004
ESL writers often have better grammar than native English speakers. If you have anyone able to do some minor editing or can commit yourself to doing a careful editing pass yourself, it's a no-brainer. Plus if you ever want to translate your own work back into your native language it'll be a lot easier than the other way around.

FormerPoster
Aug 5, 2004

Hair Elf

Simply Simon posted:

Hello everybody! I have recently decided to take up writing again, just as a hobby. However, I have always been confident enough in my hobbies to share them, and I'd like to do that for my writing as well...eventually. Thus, before I have even put a single word of a first draft down, I'm faced with a bit of an conundrum: I'm a native German, not English speaker, and wonder which language I should write in.

For what it's worth, I would have never picked up on you being a non-native speaker just from reading your post, so I think you can safely take a crack at writing prose in whichever language you prefer.

Pham Nuwen posted:

I've listened to several seasons of Writing Excuses but every time I listen, I dislike Howard Tayler a little more... especially since I've now actually looked at Schlock Mercenary. I also find it's pretty heavily focused on fantasy and supernatural YA which aren't really my bag, baby.

Any other interesting writing podcasts? If it helps steer recommendations, I've found Writing Excuses to be at its best when they're talking about techniques and skills (use of POV, dialog mechanics, etc), and at its worst when talking about actual story ideas (the prompts are dire).

He's definitely the weak link on that podcast, and I have to agree with you on his comic too. I remember feeling very deflated the first time I read it, like: "Oh... this is not... this is not good. Oh no." Fortunately, the other three are all at least baseline competent writers, if not better than that, so you can still get useful information if you just kind of ignore Howard.

FormerPoster fucked around with this message at 19:48 on Nov 30, 2018

Phil Moscowitz
Feb 19, 2007

If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!
Yeah every time he starts talking about Schlock I tune him out. I mean I think most webcomics are garbage anyway and it's not a medium I enjoy, but his seem pretty stupid.

Also whenever Mary is talking about puppetry I skip ahead 30 seconds.

MockingQuantum
Jan 20, 2012



As someone who even really enjoys webcomics, Schlock Mercenary is bad and I wouldn't trust the advice of somebody who wrote it. It's mostly notable for having been around for 18 years. I'm not sure what it was notable for 18 years ago... probably for being one of very few webcomics that managed to last for more than a couple of months.

Pham Nuwen
Oct 30, 2010



MockingQuantum posted:

As someone who even really enjoys webcomics, Schlock Mercenary is bad and I wouldn't trust the advice of somebody who wrote it. It's mostly notable for having been around for 18 years. I'm not sure what it was notable for 18 years ago... probably for being one of very few webcomics that managed to last for more than a couple of months.

It's amazing how much the art style reminds me of User Friendly, which I'll admit I read back in high school when I didn't know any better.

This is not a compliment.


Edit:

Simply Simon posted:

Hello everybody! I have recently decided to take up writing again, just as a hobby. However, I have always been confident enough in my hobbies to share them, and I'd like to do that for my writing as well...eventually. Thus, before I have even put a single word of a first draft down, I'm faced with a bit of an conundrum: I'm a native German, not English speaker, and wonder which language I should write in.

I can feel the academic writing influence in your post but as others have said, I didn't notice anything in your post that screamed NON NATIVE SPEAKER.

I'd say write in English, but first spend some time with say Hemingway's short stories. I've got the same academic writing habits as you (too many parentheticals, too much detail, overlong sentences, overuse of colons, semicolons, and em-dashes) and it seems to help me get away from them by reading these famously terse stories for a bit.

Pham Nuwen fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Nov 30, 2018

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anime was right
Jun 27, 2008

death is certain
keep yr cool
tbh the worst part about writing excuses is once you know a solid amount about writing its like 15 minutes of listening for one good, useful sentence of advice.

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