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What we are actually seeing here is a problem with marketing. You would think that this is a game best enjoyed by exploring every new location and enemy type on your own. And the way the developers talk about the game, and prevent players from looking at potential recruits before hiring implies that spoilers are meant to be discovered on their own. But going in without spoilers usually means getting smacked with a sudden game over after 10-20 hours of play time. Instead, Battle Bros is best played with a wiki in one hand. Otherwise it is sometimes difficult to know when a fight is way too difficult. The thread hivemind knows that enemy mercenaries all have a full set of perks and the equivalent of lv11 stats. But it is not obvious at a glance. Especially since you get to play as younger mercenary companies, so it is strange that there are no young enemy young mercenary companies. EDIT: See below. I bet he's fighting orc berserkers with level 1-4 bros. I doubt he realizes that greenskins are not trash mobs in Battle Bros, but mid-game to end-game enemies. golden bubble fucked around with this message at 01:05 on Nov 17, 2018 |
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Nov 17, 2018 01:02
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I just started my misadventures, and lost my first band to bring woefully unprepared to fight berserkers, but I found that butchers make a decent pick if I find them since I have a hard time finding brawlers. I did find my first wild man and definitely gonna put him in a tin can
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Nov 17, 2018 01:03
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I just did a run where I decided not to take Pathfinder on anyone on my company and found it actually fairly tolerable. Since everyone still shared the same movement restriction and thus movement range, I was still able to roughly maintain the same level of positioning and formation as when I had Pathfinder. I just had to make a few new concessions for the type of terrain. Really, the biggest change in how I played was that I started chasing down roving enemies a little further so I could engage them in favorable terrain and there would be some missions where I simply had to retreat or altogether abandon a job if the enemy spawn proved too costly to engage. Some thoughts and discoveries dealing with different terrain without Pathfinder: Height elevation: The additional AP cost for getting on higher elevation without Pathfinder sometimes meant I couldn't move and take a swing in the same turn (this was most noticeable on brothers with polearms and two-handed weapons). But the bonus from height advantage is already desirable so I'm content with using a turn just to take higher ground. Forests: The added fatigue cost is annoying but the real danger is that trees and other impassable objects can really funnel your mercs if you move them out poorly or get a bad starting position; a clumped up merc in an awkward spot in the initiative order might not be able to move to a free spot or would have to go on a meandering path to reach the enemy if there are too many blocked off tiles. Creating your own chokepoints is key and Rotation is particularly good in forests--Rotation in general is just a great top-tier perk choice but it gets extra utility here by getting fresh bodies in when free space is at a premium. Incidentally, one of the hairiest moments for this company was during a forest ambush event where getting my more vulnerable mercs to a safe backline became a frantic scramble without Pathfinder. Swamps are generally the worst depending on the availability of dry land and the enemy makeup. Because of the heavy malus that comes from being on swamp tiles, fights can be really swingy. For instance, if you have a couple of spots of dry land for your archers and are only facing non-skeletal melee units, it's a turkey shoot because it's like giving you a 25 percent bonus for your archers. Similarly, getting a row of your melee brothers on dry land while the enemy is zoned out to the swamps can severely hamper even a line of shieldwalled ancient dead. But that advantage can easily go to the enemy if you get a bad map spawn that puts the enemy on favorable, dry land. To mitigate this, I prioritize moving onto as much dry land as possible and use range superiority to force enemies to charge into my superior position. But there will be times when you may have rush in to put down an annoying backliner, such as an ancient priest, and just accept that you'll be drawn into an ugly swamp slugging match. Mountains can be situationally the worst depending on what end of the mountain you spawn on. The worst case scenario is you end up at the foot of the mountain facing a firing squad of bandit marksmen, where you'll take a bunch of injuries and gas out on half your fatigue as you assail the cliff, just to then face off against height advantage enemies waiting for you at the top. Depending on what stage you're at in the game, it's simply not cost-effective to take the fight. These were the jobs I had to abandon most often or the lairs I'd have to put off until later, but the sustained injuries while retreating and the hit to reputation was far preferable to a wipe. I already try to avoid traveling through mountains when I can due to the speed penalty and increased food costs so mountain ambushes weren't a big concern for me for this playthrough. Snow same AP/fatigue issues as forest tiles but actually a little easier because you can get mostly flat, open tundra which is actually a benefit against non-undead enemies. With range superiority and standing in place, you can tire the enemy out by a decent amount before they get to you while getting in some good shots. This was on an expert/expert iron man run that completed all three crises. Overall, I now consider Pathfinder a nice convenience but rather unessential. Having completed a full playthrough without it, I felt that I could easily cope by being smart with my engagement choices and use of tactics. Pathfinder, in and of itself, doesn't really cancel out the fundamental dangers of the above situations, and I think I got way more value slotting in a better perk into my builds this time around without it.
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Nov 17, 2018 05:47
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Those are pretty much my feelings about Pathfinder too. A lot of fights it won't get used at all because you're fighting in a field, and most fights even in bad terrain not having it is mitigated by a few things: 1) your whole company moves at the same speed anyway; 2) once you get into contact with the enemy it's a useless perk; 3) your enemy (usually) doesn't have pathfinder either so it's not like they're going to charge you down as you move slowly through the swamp or snow. I think even with pathfinder you'll generally be trying to avoid fights in swamps or mountains so not a whole lot changes there. I prefer having an extra combat perk that will be useful in every fight to a perk that will make some smaller percentage of fights a little less annoying.
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Nov 17, 2018 06:03
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Basically Battle Brother is Tomb of Horrors. I'm not going to begrudge anyone putting the game down because of frustration with the difficulty. It's random, highly punishing of mistakes, asks you to eyeball encounters where even a slight force mismatch can snowball quickly, and constantly throws new edge-cases at you where you don't know if you've bitten off more than you can chew until everyone is suddenly dead. If you are going to get anything from BB you just have to be willing to accept that you will spend a lot of time starting new campaigns and learning a bit more each time. That's the health warning.
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Nov 17, 2018 09:00
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Alchenar posted:Basically Battle Brother is Tomb of Horrors. Yeah I have probably restarted this game 50 times but I keep coming back to it. Took me a lot of playtime before I started playing ironman and honestly I enjoy the game way more in that mode. I think that constantly save-scumming once you know how to play the game really takes a lot of the fun out of it because you will just end up fighting certain battles over and over again and getting more and more frustrated rather than just running away.
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Nov 17, 2018 16:30
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Alchenar posted:If you are going to get anything from BB you just have to be willing to accept that you will spend a lot of time starting new campaigns and learning a bit more each time. That's the health warning. I think if I was playing it 15 years ago I could have dealt with that, but I tend to just have small windows of a few hours to play in so starting over just isn't really feasible.
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Nov 18, 2018 09:02
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Just my two cents: I was in a similar position and I eventually gave up on BB because it was just two opaque for me, then I ended up having a great time with new XCOM. Finished the first one twice, and now I have 200 hours in the second one, with who knows how many more coming while I'm changing mods every campaign.
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Nov 18, 2018 12:23
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Basically, Taear is saying he's not enjoying the game and then everyone replies saying he's not playing the game correctly. There's nothing wrong with Taear or the game, guys. Different people like different things.
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Nov 18, 2018 12:38
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Honestly he should just drop the game, he is plainly not enjoying it.
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Nov 18, 2018 12:50
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To be fair the fact that the difficulty level can vary so much between different enemy types without really giving the player any way of knowing beforehand without just knowing how the game works is probably one of my major criticisms of BB and if they improved this somehow it would be a great addition.
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Nov 18, 2018 13:03
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RabidWeasel posted:To be fair the fact that the difficulty level can vary so much between different enemy types without really giving the player any way of knowing beforehand without just knowing how the game works is probably one of my major criticisms of BB and if they improved this somehow it would be a great addition. Something like a threat level rating would work well, so that a new player would know goblins are NOT pushovers like in every other game. fspades fucked around with this message at 16:39 on Nov 18, 2018 |
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Nov 18, 2018 13:33
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Also more granularity in contract difficulty. The current 1-3 skull system is basically "only do 1 skull contracts unless you're extremely confident about exactly what you're doing"
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Nov 18, 2018 13:40
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Sandwich Anarchist posted:Honestly he should just drop the game, he is plainly not enjoying it. Love seeing a few dozen responses have been posted then finding out it's still the same person trying to convince everyone else the game is bad. Stop trying to change each other's minds about it.
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Nov 18, 2018 15:29
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Unzip and Attack posted:Love seeing a few dozen responses have been posted then finding out it's still the same person trying to convince everyone else the game is bad. Yeah, not everyone likes everything. Give it an honest try, and then move on if it isn't your bag. Nothing wrong with that, especially for a game aa opaque and unforgiving as BB.
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Nov 18, 2018 15:40
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Dev doing a preview of the DLC: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdAM-f50TDM
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Nov 18, 2018 17:28
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fspades posted:Something like a threat level rating would work well, so that a new player would know goblins are NOT pushovers like in every other game. That would be really good, actually. Yes it's hard to say "this group is definitely hard for your particular composition" but there's still at least a rough guide you can do.
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Nov 18, 2018 21:07
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Taear posted:That would be really good, actually. There isn't a definitive one, because it depends on so many factors, not least the stats of your men, their perks and traits, their gear (weapons/armor/consumables), your tactical skill and tolerance for risk. But if you want a general guideline I would say probably: Early game (L1-5, typically days 1-30 or 35): Wiedergangers, Armored Wiedergangers, Brigand Thugs, Nachzehrers Brigand Poachers Ancient Auxiliaries Orc Young Brigand Raiders in small numbers Mid game (L6-11, typically days 30-80): Orc Young, Orc Berzerkers small numbers of Geists Brigand Raiders and Brigand Marksmen small numbers of Ancient Legionaries small numbers of Goblins Brigand Raiders, Marksmen and Leaders/Hedge Knights small numbers of Orc Warriors Late game (L11+, typically days 80+): Mercenaries Orc Warriors, Orc Warlords Ancient Honor Guards, Ancient Priests, Necrosavants Swordmaster, Master Archer Goblin Overseer, Goblin Shaman As mentioned above the key issues are more about stats and gear. Against Orc Warriors you'll need anti-armor weapons like hammers. Against Goblins you need good armor and fighting during Nighttime is generally advisable when going up against a stronger ranged force. Ancient Legionaries are essentially a stat and gear check, without a sturdy frontline and good positioning of 2-handers, the first few encounters are quite likely fairly traumatic. Against Geists, you'll want to have a Sergeant with the Battle Standard and the Rally perk as a safeguard. I don't want to spoil too much and the above is just a rough guide. There are alternative approaches/solutions to every enemy type and you can read the rest in the wiki but that's the scheme of things in a nutshell. Knowing what to fight and what not to fight comes with experience and everyone has a different threshold.
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Nov 19, 2018 08:20
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Different threshholds are definitely the name of the game. I straight up hunt down orc young in the early game because they're so easy to put down.
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Nov 19, 2018 16:45
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With all these new monsters and combat potions and stuff I kind of want to play this again and make a gimmick solo build of a Witcher roaming around slaying monsters  Are solo duellist builds basically viable? I've seen videos and guides for running them, but I suppose they rely on a lot of save-scumming.
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Nov 19, 2018 19:43
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Difficulty also plays a role when it comes to what enemies are beatable at which points in the game. I used to fight Wiedergängers almost no matter what on Beginner and Veteran but on Expert the game starts spawning large numbers of Armored Wiedergängers so early that that can be suicidal when your bros still only have armor looted from Raiders and no Recovery. Goblin Overseers are midgame enemies to me. The smaller Goblin outposts generally have an Overseer and I think 11 other Goblins, most of them Skirmishers, in them during the midgame on Expert. They're one of the easier enemy camps to take on during that time imo because while it's hard to avoid injuries against Goblins bros rarely die against them. communism bitch posted:With all these new monsters and combat potions and stuff I kind of want to play this again and make a gimmick solo build of a Witcher roaming around slaying monsters Even if it works, though, it honestly sounds boring as poo poo. watch 20 Orcs take their turns Wilreich the Witch Hunter moves, shoots his crossbow and misses watch 20 Orcs take their turns Wilreich the Witch Hunter uses Quick Hands and swings his sword watch 20 Orcs take their turns Wilreich the Witch Hunter swings his sword again and kills an Orc watch 19 Orcs take their turns
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Nov 20, 2018 00:31
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Wizard Styles posted:Difficulty also plays a role when it comes to what enemies are beatable at which points in the game. I used to fight Wiedergängers almost no matter what on Beginner and Veteran but on Expert the game starts spawning large numbers of Armored Wiedergängers so early that that can be suicidal when your bros still only have armor looted from Raiders and no Recovery. watch 20 Orcs take their turns. Wilreich mathematically gets hit once. Armor destroyed. Wilreich is flagging. Wilreich the Witch Hunter moves, shoots his crossbow and misses watch 20 Orcs take their turns. Wilreich mathematically gets hit once. Takes an injury. Low health. Wilreich the Witch Hunter uses Quick Hands and swings his sword watch 20 Orcs take their turns. Wilreich mathematically takes a hit. Wilreich is wavering. Wilreich the Witch Hunter swings his sword again and kills an Orc watch 19 Orcs take their turns. Wilreich mathematically takes a hit (slight chance he lives). Wilreich breaks. Orcs murder him as he runs. Honestly I have only seen solo videos where the brother is wearing full Davkul and they're regenning.
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Nov 20, 2018 06:04
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 Sallets <3
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Nov 20, 2018 19:59
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Half hour interview with Jaysen about their future plans etc etc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4Qz6eu0x40
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Nov 21, 2018 15:52
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Nordick posted:Half hour interview with Jaysen about their future plans etc etc Thanks! I can't watch right now -- mind sharing the highlights?
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Nov 21, 2018 16:05
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Sorry, I'm too tired to really focus on it myself either.  I tried listening for a bit, but I was just spacing out so I gave up for now. Should probably go take a long nap tbh.EDIT: Well, Jaysen did seem to hint that there's still potential for more future content after B&E.
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Nov 21, 2018 16:13
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I really hope they add injuries to undead because goddamn they're boring or just frustrating to fight. I basically avoid fighting ancients because while I can get my head around fighting orc warlords or goblins, or merc companies or noble regiments, stalling out against legionnaires with a few bad great sword/hammer bros attack rolls and having my brothers get their heads popped by ancient honor guard pikes sucks rear end
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Nov 21, 2018 16:44
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I think skeleton injuries is a good idea. No reason you couldn't shatter some of their bones.
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Nov 21, 2018 17:39
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Yeah, I've been saying that for a while. Skeletons should get broken-bone injuries only. If nothing else there's a whole subset of injury based perks that are lovely picks if you get the skeleton crisis. edit: I'd really like to try a crippling strikes / executioner party combo build but there's no point if they couldn't handle undead at all Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Nov 21, 2018 |
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Nov 21, 2018 17:41
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I think there's the potential for injuries to skeletons and zombies as well. If you cut through a zombie's arm muscle or broke a skeleton's arm bone they should get less effective, even if giving them a concussion might not do anything.
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Nov 21, 2018 18:01
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They already don't suffer from fatigue and ignore resolve, which means they will out last your pathetic living fleshmen, not having injuries is just a bit too much.
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Nov 21, 2018 19:52
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Not being able to smash off a skeleton arm with my 2h hammer bro is a crime.
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Nov 22, 2018 15:02
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Man, the crazy spider fight in the developer 'LP' preview is huge. I wasn't convinced they wouldn't just be annoying as hell to fight but it looks fun!
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Nov 22, 2018 16:42
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:edit: I'd really like to try a crippling strikes / executioner party combo build but there's no point if they couldn't handle undead at all Could always use BB-Edit to just play around with it.
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Nov 22, 2018 16:58
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Wizard Styles posted:I think you could do it if you pick those perks later. Wiedergängers are just cannon fodder eventually and Ancient Dead become a lot less challenging later on as well. Then again, Crippling Strikes and Executioner also don't look too hot against Goblins, so, eh. It would bother me due to my own notions of "efficiency" and "wasted perks" -- whenever I got into a fight against undead I'd feel I was "less efficient". Ideally either the patch will add bone injuries to undead OR someone will write a mod. It's funny how an upcoming DLC can revive interest. I'm sitting here with a day off work and instead of playing any of the games in my steam library I'm watching the Let's Play video of the dlc. He throws a dagger party and calls it an "advanced technique" some of the better players are adopting! And he takes student at first level! Vindication! Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 15:21 on Nov 23, 2018 |
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Nov 23, 2018 15:17
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Johan (hilariously good BB player who's broken the game over his knee in about a thousand different ways) at time of this writing fixing to stream the new DLC; he got a beta key from the devs and is streaming it with permission. Enjoy! https://www.twitch.tv/83johan
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Nov 23, 2018 18:16
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We're going to have to generate all new seeds, right? What do folks look for in a good seed? I can't remember what my criteria were. A swamp village for witch hunters and cultists, a forest village for archers, a trading circuit with a gem mine, what else?
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Nov 23, 2018 18:26
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:We're going to have to generate all new seeds, right? I like it when it is easy to travel from one part of the map to the other. My favorite seeds had tons of ports making it very easy to just bugger off to a different part of the map for contracts.
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Nov 23, 2018 18:33
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I put a lot (probably too much) value in good traits on the starter units when it comes to seed selection.
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Nov 23, 2018 18:39
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:We're going to have to generate all new seeds, right? A starting triple iron lungs will do
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Nov 23, 2018 19:41
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