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Beasteh posted:there are a few NPC lines that specifically refer to Kris as he/him
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Nov 22, 2018 02:49
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https://twitter.com/kanotynes/status/1063638095818575872 https://twitter.com/kanotynes/status/1065404366180495360
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Nov 22, 2018 02:50
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Fangz posted:Kris is Frisk except no one pays them any respect
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Nov 22, 2018 04:25
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Re: pronouns, I certainly don't recall any evidence in two playthroughs that Kris is expressly male or female. OTOH, I don't think there's any real harm in someone saying "he" or "she" based on their own interpretation of the character, because Kris is a fictional character without feelings or agency and not a person. The main reason to respect other peoples' pronouns and not project or make assumptions about them is because it's kind and courteous; you are under no obligation to be courteous to a fictional character. Which is why I can safely say, itt, before God and the forums, that Ralsei is a little bitch
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Nov 22, 2018 04:53
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Ralsei is cute but that's about it. Susie rules though. The power of mean girls shines within me.
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Nov 22, 2018 05:02
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Okay so, none of the save points mention determination anymore. Instead, they all mention power. Let me just quote Chara here: "With your guidance. I realized the purpose of my reincarnation. Power." I don't think this is a coincidence.
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Nov 22, 2018 06:05
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I just realized I hadn't seen anyone mention it yet, and deltarune is obviously a prequel in some form to at least the ps4 version of Undertale. Within the grand multiverse relative timeline sense of things anyway. In the ps4 release there is the dog shrine with a donation box. In the switch release the dog shrine has been fully upgraded by donations but then destroyed. In deltarune the tutorial guys mention they used to have a donation box but it was stolen, and now they just have a donation hole. Which most likely means the lovely dog stole it for the ps4 release. E: thinking more on the subject , prequel vs sequel vs concurrent status actually depends on how recent the theft is, but the universes are connected in spite of being seperate. Gruckles fucked around with this message at 07:22 on Nov 22, 2018 |
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Nov 22, 2018 06:09
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No. 1 Apartheid Fan posted:Re: pronouns, I certainly don't recall any evidence in two playthroughs that Kris is expressly male or female. While you're correct that Kris is a fictional character and that they cannot be harmed by misgendering, there are a lot of Undertale and Deltarune fans who are nonbinary and/or trans, a lot of them attracted by the amount of characters who use they/them pronouns (outside the humans, there's Napstablook and Monster Kid, for starters, plus a few others I'm forgetting this moment). Unfortunately, a lot of nonbinary people have to deal with daily erasure of their identities in real life and the daily assumption that they have to be one or the other binary gender. Fiction can provide a nice escape from that for a bit. You're not doing any harm to Kris by using he or she for them, but using they/them for them is a small, low-cost act that can leave actual real people feeling a little less alienated in an often hostile society. If you don't do that, then, well, most people will just shrug it off and move on. At this point, I'm pretty numb to it on the whole. But why not go for the simple, easy canon-compliant option, if you can? Also, Ralsei is a precious fluffy boy.
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Nov 22, 2018 07:56
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Looking through the text dump, there's 1 mention of Kris using "they/them" (during the box puzzle). That's more evidence than he or she, if you're a stickler for that sort of thing.
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Nov 22, 2018 08:30
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I don't think I said it before but I liked Susie's bullying work in the beginning. That was pretty solid 'I'm gonna kill you' stuff rather than it being like the whole shoving on a playground thing that generally gets shown on movies or whatever. Though, if Catti's working after school this has gotta be like, high school class or something. Also, small thing I got wrong because I'm stupid I'm talking about the last 28 seconds of the game I thought Chara was materializing a knife out of nothing rather than turning their hand to show that they had it.
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Nov 22, 2018 08:49
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Aisu posted:While you're correct that Kris is a fictional character and that they cannot be harmed by misgendering, there are a lot of Undertale and Deltarune fans who are nonbinary and/or trans, a lot of them attracted by the amount of characters who use they/them pronouns (outside the humans, there's Napstablook and Monster Kid, for starters, plus a few others I'm forgetting this moment). I see what you're saying and totally respect this. A thing I would contend - and this isn't really an argument, because I think what you're saying is a totally valid way to look at it - is that with Frisk and Kris specifically, I strongly suspect the intent of their ambiguity is to allow the player to project themselves onto the player character. There are other little things in Undertale that serve this function, too, like what Frisk's life and family are like outside of the Underground. Therefore, it's less that Frisk (for ex) is canonically enby and more that they have no canon gender identity at all; in the end, "Frisk" isn't making choices and has no personality (or gender identity) other than what we imbue them with. What makes this super interesting is that Deltarune looks like it's probably going to very directly confront this idea - that the character Kris resists our attempts to control them - so it's entirely possible that at some point in the game we'll learn more concrete facts about their identity and possibly have the option to comply with their narrative of who they are or reject it (maybe with disastrous consequences for the player, Kris, or both).
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Nov 22, 2018 08:54
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No. 1 Apartheid Fan posted:I see what you're saying and totally respect this. Yeah, I feel like at the current moment projecting onto Kris seems to maybe not be the best path. Possibly they'll reveal their identity and it will be something other than nonbinary, possibly they'll confirm that they're totally 100% agender, possibly that aspect will be left ambiguous but we'll learn more about their life as a whole, who knows. They definitely seem to be a defined person in a lot of ways, so. The safe bet seems to be sticking with neutrality, because there's no way for that to be wrong. And, in general, that's my stance for the other kids too, for headcanon-neutral stuff like "discussing the themes of the game" or whatever (as opposed to fanart/fanfic, which, like, I'm not likely to read something that stresses how Kris is the Manliest Man to Ever Man but whatever you do you) - there's really no way to go wrong with they/them, and using it is at the worst neutral and at best positive.
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Nov 22, 2018 09:07
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minor ending spoiler/question/theory So is Chara-Kris the one drinking the milk in the alley after eating pies at night?
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Nov 22, 2018 11:36
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Residual Toast posted:minor ending spoiler/question/theory Yes 
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Nov 22, 2018 11:39
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I feel like it's important for Kris, Frisk, and Chara to all be non-binary and to be openly acknowledge and referred to as such because right now the only other non-binary characters in popular games are [FILE NOT FOUND]. There's a lot of female representation in games. There's a lot of male representation in games. There's not a lot of non-binary representation anywhere.
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Nov 22, 2018 18:16
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Don't know if anyone has mentioned it yet but Deltarune is an anagram for Undertale.
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Nov 22, 2018 19:17
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Frankston posted:Don't know if anyone has mentioned it yet but Deltarune is an anagram for Undertale. It’s also an anagram of Nude Alert 
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Nov 22, 2018 19:26
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And Elude Rant, very important on this Thanksgiving holiday.
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Nov 22, 2018 19:54
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:I feel like it's important for Kris, Frisk, and Chara to all be non-binary and to be openly acknowledge and referred to as such because right now the only other non-binary characters in popular games are [FILE NOT FOUND]. There's no indication of that either. If anything, that kind of stance is non-inclusive of every binary-gendered player.
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Nov 22, 2018 20:04
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McFrugal posted:There's no indication of that either. If anything, that kind of stance is non-inclusive of every binary-gendered player. As a binary-gendered player, lemme say that I do not feel excluded because, as noted, there are actually lots of games with binary characters.
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Nov 22, 2018 20:07
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpnnrxKxRVc This is a really sweet cover of Field of Hopes and Dreams, and possibly better than RichaadEB's.
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Nov 22, 2018 20:09
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GunnerJ posted:As a binary-gendered player, lemme say that I do not feel excluded because, as noted, there are actually lots of games with binary characters. I meant specifically Deltarune and Undertale and the implied player-specific gender that the main characters have. If you try to push that they're male, or female, or neither, you're both missing the point and pushing away players that perceive the game(s) in their own way. McFrugal fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Nov 22, 2018 |
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Nov 22, 2018 20:15
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GunnerJ posted:As a binary-gendered player, lemme say that I do not feel excluded because, as noted, there are actually lots of games with binary characters. 
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Nov 22, 2018 20:18
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McFrugal posted:There's no indication of that either. If anything, that kind of stance is non-inclusive of every binary-gendered player. 
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Nov 22, 2018 20:22
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kris is just thinkin about thos pies
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Nov 22, 2018 20:23
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Roobanguy posted:kris is just thinkin bout those pies hell, same
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Nov 22, 2018 20:24
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Nov 22, 2018 20:41
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Roobanguy posted:kris is just thinkin about thos pies
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Nov 22, 2018 23:47
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:I feel like it's important for Kris, Frisk, and Chara to all be non-binary and to be openly acknowledge and referred to as such because right now the only other non-binary characters in popular games are [FILE NOT FOUND]. How about non-binary species representation? I myself am a level 9 pyrofox.
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Nov 22, 2018 23:49
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oh poo poo epic own xd 
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Nov 22, 2018 23:53
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Laugh away, atleast I have the dog sections of dead to rights to play again and again while I wait for someone to rectify the situation.
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Nov 22, 2018 23:57
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ditty bout my clitty posted:How about non-binary species representation? I myself am a level 9 pyrofox. does it suddenly smell like reddit in here or is it just me
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Nov 23, 2018 00:01
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Ruffian Price posted:Honestly I'm convinced that it was never meant to be a metagram (that's when you change a single letter!) of Frisk, just a relatively common androgynous name without going with Alex like everybody else i think that because the game has other notable anagrams and it's a good androgynous name and it also happens to be a type of knife, it's totally deliberate but not necessarily indicative of a deeper connection to Frisk
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Nov 23, 2018 00:03
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Residual Toast posted:minor ending spoiler/question/theory  (Source is https://twitter.com/DeclanMcComics, might have some nsfw-ish stuff) Two Inch Bee fucked around with this message at 00:06 on Nov 23, 2018 |
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Nov 23, 2018 00:04
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Your Computer posted:does it suddenly smell like reddit in here or is it just me MWA HA HA HA! Tremble, worms, beforest the Duke Of Shitpostes!
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Nov 23, 2018 00:05
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nine-gear crow posted:MWA HA HA HA! 
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Nov 23, 2018 00:18
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“Rouxls Kaard” posted:Thine mad? :trolleface:
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Nov 23, 2018 00:28
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*madst
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Nov 23, 2018 00:33
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Nov 23, 2018 00:36
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SirSamVimes posted:*madst This is the same character that brought us the word "decidedesteth". Always go for maxmimum overwrought.
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Nov 23, 2018 02:17
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