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LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:The global solution to immigration involves not bombing brown people and actually making their worlds better for them instead of better for us. I mean yes but Syria was an environmental disaster coupled with a civil war.
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Nov 22, 2018 17:09
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^^ Oh wow you’re right nothing to do but bomb them I guess. If only we had invented a kind of aid for disasters. Oh well.Wilhelm posted:again I agree with the sources you go by, I'm more just skeptical it can appropriately scale up - Canada has punched well above its weight vs. the US for refugee resettlement (this is a good thing) but there's still certainly lots of issues & shortcomings. I don't think it can scale infinitely if you're going to administer a successful program Luv 2 view refugees as an actual infinite war hammer ork wagh LITERALLY MY FETISH fucked around with this message at 17:13 on Nov 22, 2018 |
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Nov 22, 2018 17:09
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:That's the thing though -- once you have America taking on 500k refugees instead of 50, that takes a lot of pressure off Europe. Agreed. Like climate change a workable solution requires a global response.This does get fuzzier in other regions - Costa Rica for instance is substantially wealthier than its neighbors but is still a small country & again requires some sort of limit if it were to appropriately help people. Singapore, Israel, particular wealthy ethnic states that would have their citizens lose all power (such as the gulf countries) due to supporting enormous 'worker migrants' would never grant citizenship easily
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Nov 22, 2018 17:11
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Mooseontheloose posted:I mean yes but Syria was an environmental disaster coupled with a civil war. even with the climate issues, syria likely does not end up as it did without iraq. you certainly wouldn't have isis joining the fray if the civil war still occurred.
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Nov 22, 2018 17:11
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Stexils posted:right, trade unionists aren't the ones proposing free trade, and they oppose immigration because they fear companies essentially hiring a bunch of scabs to destroy their union. i'm saying that the neoliberals who push policies like NAFTA or the TPP only care about capital and not labor. you can see this in how those policies destroy labor unions since companies can recruit from wherever they want, undermining union leverage. it also comes through in how they treat immigrants - rather than forcing companies to not hire non union workers leaders like obama simply deport people and restrict immigration, which shows they don't actually care about workers. mhm having a bit of trouble following you here. Calling all immigrants scabs comes off not right, we should remember the early 20th century unionization push was driven by immigrants as much as any other group. We should also remember many early unions made very similar comparisons to black people as what you are doing here, and fought hard to exclude them from the labor movement. We shouldn't repeat those mistakes today.
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Nov 22, 2018 17:13
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LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:The global solution to immigration involves not bombing brown people and actually making their worlds better for them instead of better for us. Also, no margin in it. If the slaughter in Yemen stopped tomorrow, do you know how much money would not find its way to the needy coffers of weapons industries? In the debacle in Syria had been prevented, so many shells would be unspent! Besides, increasing global vioence and mass migrations only empowers the right in the end, as they get more migrants to rage about, so even if they were not doing it on purpose, it works out well to their benefit. It's why the only unforgivable offense to the establishment is trying to suck the wind out of the war apparatus.
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Nov 22, 2018 17:13
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Wilhelm posted:Agreed. Like climate change a workable solution requires a global response.This does get fuzzier in other regions - Costa Rica for instance is substantially wealthier than its neighbors but is still a small country & again requires some sort of limit if it were to appropriately help people. Oh well if the ethnostates won’t do it then it can’t be done Ignore the country with vast swathes of dying rural populations behind the curtain, not important to this discussion.
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Nov 22, 2018 17:18
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Wilhelm posted:Agreed. Like climate change a workable solution requires a global response.This does get fuzzier in other regions - Costa Rica for instance is substantially wealthier than its neighbors but is still a small country & again requires some sort of limit if it were to appropriately help people. You are aware Singaporean population has increased more than fourfold in the last 50 years despite a low birthrate, right.
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Nov 22, 2018 17:18
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Stexils posted:refugee resettlement would actually be extremely easy in the us if the government actually used the tools it has. for example if the feds built a bunch of public housing and an unskilled jobs program for those who couldn't find work you could scale it up more or less indefinitely. What about the reality of it all, governments across the US are unable to solve basic homelessness, umemployment, inequitable access to education, among a litany of other poo poo. Blind people have a 70% unemployment rate for grok's sake and you think a concentrated unskilled jobs program is workable at scale? You need a different government and populace than the one we have.
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Nov 22, 2018 17:19
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Happy Thanksgiving, everyone! Some advice: - To avoid politics discussions, talk about food and recipes. People who cook love to share recipes, and will interrupt people talking to share. Use those smokescreens! - If you get into a discussion, an easy out is to find the youngest kid and ask them about things. Is the food good? Are you having fun? By the time you finish you'll have gained enough airtime that you can reboot the discussion or they have moved on. - Though tempting, punching your CHUD relative should not be a first resort. Police are busy enough. - Make sure to share your stories on the thread so we can tell you to  Enjoy your Thanksgiving Holiday, everyone!
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Nov 22, 2018 17:20
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Squalid posted:mhm having a bit of trouble following you here. Calling all immigrants scabs comes off not right, we should remember the early 20th century unionization push was driven by immigrants as much as any other group. We should also remember many early unions made very similar comparisons to black people as what you are doing here, and fought hard to exclude them from the labor movement. We shouldn't repeat those mistakes today. of course all immigrants aren't scabs, i'm saying that's the fear, not that that's valid. the right way to go about it is to make immigration into the country easy so people don't have to be here illegally, because that gives companies leverage over workers in precarious positions because the workers can't stand up to them without risking deportation.
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Nov 22, 2018 17:23
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Universal absolutely open borders results in China taking over any small, strategic location it desires by state-sponsored (forced) immigration. Iceland, Monaco, Guam, Cyprus, Panama, Denmark, random countries in Africa, the list goes on. It’s a ridiculous idea if taken at face value.
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Nov 22, 2018 17:24
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Private Speech posted:You are aware Singaporean population has increased more than fourfold in the last 50 years despite a low birthrate, right. Sure as have many countries but again a lot of Malaysia would try to move somewhere with incomes that are an order of magnitude higher & with real health care anyone who isn't very wealthy in kuala lumpur would absolutely want to use a doctor or hospital a few hours drive to the south vs their own - again not a tenable solution pmchem posted:Universal absolutely open borders results in China taking over any small, strategic location it desires by state-sponsored (forced) immigration. Iceland, Monaco, Guam, Cyprus, Panama, Denmark, random countries in Africa, the list goes on. It’s a ridiculous idea if taken at face value. basically this. compassion and social welfare are good things but they need to be done in a realistic manner - the first real world government to propose some of what people here want would be overthrown by a radical right-wing party very quickly people are generally lovely and not willing to sacrifice any comfort for the well being of invisible people Capri Sunrise fucked around with this message at 17:27 on Nov 22, 2018 |
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Nov 22, 2018 17:24
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J.A.B.C. posted:Happy Thanksgiving, everyone! Some advice: All of these food details have just been training us for Thanksgiving. It's all so clear now!
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Nov 22, 2018 17:25
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pmchem posted:Universal absolutely open borders results in China taking over any small, strategic location it desires by state-sponsored (forced) immigration. Iceland, Monaco, Guam, Cyprus, Panama, Denmark, random countries in Africa, the list goes on. It’s a ridiculous idea if taken at face value. Lmfao
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Nov 22, 2018 17:25
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osker posted:What about the reality of it all, governments across the US are unable to solve basic homelessness, umemployment, inequitable access to education, among a litany of other poo poo. "grok"? really? anyway the point i was making is that the problem isn't something unsolvable, it's a problem of political will rather than ability, and political narratives can be shifted.
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Nov 22, 2018 17:26
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Stexils posted:of course all immigrants aren't scabs, i'm saying that's the fear, not that that's valid. the right way to go about it is to make immigration into the country easy so people don't have to be here illegally, because that gives companies leverage over workers in precarious positions because the workers can't stand up to them without risking deportation. In the US at the very least uncapping the familial visa program or at least like not giving it an absurdly low number of visas would be nice.
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Nov 22, 2018 17:26
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J.A.B.C. posted:Happy Thanksgiving, everyone! Some advice: Thankfully everyone is my family is liberal so we'll all probably just bitch about Trump while watching football. Even my Vietnam vet dad HAAAATES Trump.
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Nov 22, 2018 17:28
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pmchem posted:Universal absolutely open borders results in China taking over any small, strategic location it desires by state-sponsored (forced) immigration. Iceland, Monaco, Guam, Cyprus, Panama, Denmark, random countries in Africa, the list goes on. It’s a ridiculous idea if taken at face value. osker posted:What about the reality of it all, governments across the US are unable to solve basic homelessness, umemployment, inequitable access to education, among a litany of other poo poo. Wilhelm posted:Sure as have many countries but again a lot of Malaysia would try to move somewhere with incomes that are an order of magnitude higher & with real health care https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vezr3dW4J5s
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Nov 22, 2018 17:29
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This video is not available in your country, I say while outing myself as a dirty euro and everything.
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Nov 22, 2018 17:31
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Jfc hillary is god awful I can’t believe people keep trying to pretend the left hates her cause of right wing propaganda She’s been awful for a long time and it was pretty obvious if you were paying any attention at all
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Nov 22, 2018 17:32
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Edit:^^^^omg you wore the same av as me to this party.Private Speech posted:This video is not available in your country, I say while outing myself as a dirty euro and everything. It's a 30 second clip of Hitler working a crowd up into a frenzy of sieg heil's. Prester Jane fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Nov 22, 2018 |
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Nov 22, 2018 17:33
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Condiv posted:Jfc hillary is god awful As I've said before, even the absolute worst Dem is better than the absolute best Republican, and we'd all be a lot better off if she had won.
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Nov 22, 2018 17:35
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Condiv posted:Jfc hillary is god awful Centrists are going full fash at an astonishing rate
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Nov 22, 2018 17:36
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pmchem posted:Universal absolutely open borders results in China taking over any small, strategic location it desires by state-sponsored (forced) immigration. Iceland, Monaco, Guam, Cyprus, Panama, Denmark, random countries in Africa, the list goes on. It’s a ridiculous idea if taken at face value.
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Nov 22, 2018 17:37
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J.A.B.C. posted:Happy Thanksgiving, everyone! Some advice:
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Nov 22, 2018 17:37
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china seems to be committing genocide just fine without open borders
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Nov 22, 2018 17:38
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Your Taint posted:As I've said before, even the absolute worst Dem is better than the absolute best Republican, and we'd all be a lot better off if she had won. It’s ok your taint, she lost. You don’t have to stan for the xenophobic old white lady anymore https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lps-As9djiw
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Nov 22, 2018 17:38
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Your Taint posted:As I've said before, even the absolute worst Dem is better than the absolute best Republican, and we'd all be a lot better off if she had won. Only true in the short-term, and only provides the brief illusion of safety. In the long run there is no meaningful difference between an enabler/collaborator and a fascist.
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Nov 22, 2018 17:41
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Condiv posted:It’s ok your taint, she lost. You don’t have to stan for the xenophobic old white lady anymore I'm not a fan, believe me. And yeah, she is absolutely flawed. But she's not Donald loving Trump.
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Nov 22, 2018 17:42
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pmchem posted:Universal absolutely open borders results in China taking over any small, strategic location it desires by state-sponsored (forced) immigration. Iceland, Monaco, Guam, Cyprus, Panama, Denmark, random countries in Africa, the list goes on. It’s a ridiculous idea if taken at face value. lmao white people actually believe this
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Nov 22, 2018 17:43
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:lmao white people actually believe this as a white person I'm terrified of the Chinese invasion of Denmark.
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Nov 22, 2018 17:44
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J.A.B.C. posted:Happy Thanksgiving, everyone! Some advice: Why would we yell at the people who completely disagree with us at Thanksgiving dinner when we can stay here, yelling at the people who only mostly agree with us? 
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Nov 22, 2018 17:45
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Party Plane Jones posted:this thanksgiving i'm thankful for buttons so i can tell people to stop posting and enjoy their involuntary thanksgiving vacation
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Nov 22, 2018 17:45
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Junior G-man posted:Hilary Clinton, Tony Blair and Renzi to Europe: Close ur borders, it's what good centrists do. Personally, I'm more of a fan of the parts where she whines about how the stupid lazy sheeple just can't handle ~🇺🇲freedom🇺🇲~ quote:Clinton was speaking in the quiet of hermidtown New York offices, just before the midterm elections. She admitted to still being “absolutely dumbfounded” by her defeat, and reflected on the sudden appeal of combative, supposedly straight-talking candidates who, she said, spoke to people’s emotions, not their reason. quote:Clinton said rightwing populists in the west met “a psychological as much as political yearning to be told what to do, and where to go, and how to live and have their press basically stifled and so be given one version of reality. You'd think after blowing 2016 because she was seen as too elitist, she might try to tone down the whole "looking down on the electorate" bit.
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Nov 22, 2018 17:45
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:lmao white people actually believe this soviets unironically did this - it isn't a stretch to say an authoritarian dictatorship can force people around pretty easily (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 22, 2018 17:45
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Your Taint posted:I'm not a fan, believe me. And yeah, she is absolutely flawed. But she's not Donald loving Trump. Who cares? She lost. She was completely and totally incompetent and couldn’t win against a reality tv star. It’s done. You don’t need to remind people that you would’ve preferred the lady xenophobe over the orange one. She’s not up for vote anymore and reiterating your continued support for her isn’t a good look
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Nov 22, 2018 17:45
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Main Paineframe posted:Personally, I'm more of a fan of the parts where she whines about how the stupid lazy sheeple just can't handle ~🇺🇲freedom🇺🇲~ Hillary is like if you grew the most unlikable politician in a lab somewhere.
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Nov 22, 2018 17:47
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Stexils posted:of course all immigrants aren't scabs, i'm saying that's the fear, not that that's valid. the right way to go about it is to make immigration into the country easy so people don't have to be here illegally, because that gives companies leverage over workers in precarious positions because the workers can't stand up to them without risking deportation. Ok, now I think I'm beginning to understand. This seems like good practical reform, although I'm not sure how this conclusion squares with your criticism of neoliberalism, as this effort to both increase freedom of movement and institutionalize the status of those workers seems like the neoliberal solution par excellence. I think it would be a great idea, the United States needs to allow vastly more farm laborers into the country legally to meet agriculture's needs, and allowing more highly skilled workers like doctors and engineers in would be great for workers who use their services but don't compete with them directly in the labor market. Unfortunately I fear any effort to effect this reform would be attacked from all angles, immigrant skeptics would cry murder at increased visa quotas, while immigration advocates would balk hard at any attempt to require employee verification of legal status (As well they should, given that it would ruin many undocumented families.). US immigration policy is such a janky and contrived contraption I fear the whole edifice will collapse on itself if we were to try and fix it piecemeal, it needs to be radically reformed all in one go.
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Nov 22, 2018 17:48
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Wilhelm posted:soviets unironically did this - it isn't a stretch to say an authoritarian dictatorship can force people around pretty easily  (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 22, 2018 17:51
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