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I wonder how temperature works in endless mode. e: Like how it will drop, because it pretty much can't drop forever. Nosfereefer fucked around with this message at 00:54 on Nov 18, 2018 |
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Nov 18, 2018 00:51
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| # ? Jun 7, 2024 04:49 |
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Nosfereefer posted:I wonder how temperature works in endless mode. Probably just fluctuates then.
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Nov 18, 2018 01:38
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I imagine it might link in with the snowstorms that wipe the Frostland clean and reset it - the aftermath of each storm might have the temperature let up, while the storms themselves are periodic endurance challenges.
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Nov 18, 2018 14:46
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I felt like by the time the storm rolled around in A New Home my city was already on cruise control. It will be interesting to see how they mix it up and if it will make a bit more of a challenge.
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Nov 19, 2018 11:56
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I’m interested to see how they handle deposits running out. In the scenarios, 10,000 coal in a deposit is functionally infinite- but in an endless scenario, that may not be the case. Will it be bigger? Replensihable? Or just accept that “endless” will eventually run out of resources?
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Nov 19, 2018 16:16
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Thumpers are infinite.
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Nov 19, 2018 16:40
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Thumpers/coal are infinite. Food is infinite. Wood/steel aren't. Cores aren't. Seems outposts will be more important? I don't know what we'd need that much wood/steel for though.
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Nov 19, 2018 17:20
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I would imagine those resource nodes will have their caps removed, in favor of more Winterhome style "oh poo poo this now only operates at 90% efficiency forever unless you sacrifice a child" type events.
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Nov 19, 2018 17:31
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Depending on how long you play for, technically children are an infinite resource, too!
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Nov 19, 2018 18:08
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dogstile posted:Depending on how long you play for, technically children are an infinite resource, too! 
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Nov 19, 2018 18:17
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Patch is out and it's a biggun.
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Nov 19, 2018 19:02
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Nooooo I still have work to do Follow up questions- if sites reset themselves, do we have to rediscover outposts? Do we run into new refugees to ever-expand our population?
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Nov 19, 2018 19:13
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jokes posted:Thumpers/coal are infinite. Food is infinite. Wood/steel aren't. Cores aren't. Seems outposts will be more important? I don't know what we'd need that much wood/steel for though. wood and steel aren't but you can get wood and steel from outposts, so there's that.
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Nov 19, 2018 19:52
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skeleton warrior posted:Nooooo I still have work to do It sounds like you'll need to rediscover everything, any outpost teams and scouts out on the map will freeze to death and you'll have a whole new map
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Nov 19, 2018 22:42
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Okay, initial report: it's good! more specifics: Maps: There are three different layouts for cities - one with rocks scattered to be built around, one which gives you a long thin canyon, and one which seems to be big and open but very spread out. (Have not played the latter one.) Changing difficulties changes where resources are laid out within the map - it's the same boundaries, but your initial piles are more scattered at higher difficulties. People: You only start with about 80, which is waaaayyyyy too few for coal thumpers to be a good early option. So far, I haven't seen any new caravans of people to bring in, so it may be that you'll be at small numbers for a long time. Resource limits: I built an Iron Mine, and it listed the available resources as "infinite", so I wouldn't be surprised if it's the same for Wall Drills and Coal Mines. Storms & outposts: On hard, the first storm was set for Day 15, which was not enough time to scout more than a few locations. None of them were outposts; don't know if that means anything. NEW BUILDINGS: There are parks! And gardens! And lampposts! I don't think they have purposes but they're neat!
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Nov 19, 2018 23:50
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Yeah, okay, after hours of trying Endless on Hard, I think I have to move down to Medium level. Hard is just way too "scrape by on subsistence levels and watch the storms get more powerful than you can deal with" while the game is also dropping hey look at these neat extra things you can build if you just had a few hundred extra wood and steel which just makes me look at my 20 steel gain per day and feel sad.
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Nov 20, 2018 02:43
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I went with the large crater, foolishly thinking that would be easier. Enjoy your 2 mile trek to the gathering post, children. I spent 50 wood for the road you walk, so no complaining. and holy poo poo you need child labor and to scout ASAP to increase your working population - given that there's no scenario "population feed" like new home or refugees or set scouting locations of Winterhome, you are 100% on your own to find more people and it's RNG to do so. I actually think wall drills / charcoal kilns aren't a bad opener because of the low workforce required to operate the kilns.
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Nov 20, 2018 12:08
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I started spamming automatons because I had nothing better to do with my resources, and for some reason they all gathered in the park. After work, everybody just goes and stares at the robocluster. It's weirdly adorable. 
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Nov 20, 2018 14:23
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SurreptitiousMuffin posted:I started spamming automatons because I had nothing better to do with my resources, and for some reason they all gathered in the park. After work, everybody just goes and stares at the robocluster. It's weirdly adorable. That many should generate their own heat zone.
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Nov 20, 2018 14:32
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SurreptitiousMuffin posted:I started spamming automatons because I had nothing better to do with my resources, and for some reason they all gathered in the park. After work, everybody just goes and stares at the robocluster. It's weirdly adorable. They're plotting something. You're about to unlock the Rise Of The Machines achievement
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Nov 20, 2018 21:15
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New update rules. You can make cities look so satisfying. 
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Nov 21, 2018 01:18
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Well I'll be. All that's missing is a robust yet microsecond-precise rail transport system.
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Nov 21, 2018 06:04
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Awesome. I gotta put some more time into this over the weekend.
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Nov 21, 2018 06:06
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Unfortunately, there isn't really enough to the game to make endless mode be compelling. Eventually you'll hit the point of Fully Automated Gay Space Communism where you're self-sufficient through automaton labor, and there's literally nothing left to do.
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Nov 21, 2018 07:35
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That's literally what people have been demanding though. A bunch of people just want to have more time to perfectly reorganize and optimize their little snow cities. So the devs were like "idgi but okay here you go, we're going to add some more city-building stuff and a changing map to at least try and make this mode a little interesting" i've really loved the scenarios for the distinct challenges they provided but it's not like those are replayable at all
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Nov 21, 2018 07:43
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reading the old press releases IS pretty drat hysterical because the developers were really blatant that nothing in the game was ever really designed to outlast the challenges they put in front of you in New Home so endless mode is going to be ultimately self-defeating people kept asking for it anyway and here we are
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Nov 21, 2018 07:51
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Yeah. Hell, I said shortly after Frostpunk came out that I didn't think an Endless mode wouldn't fit the game very well. The varying maps are interesting, though since they prevent you from just making the 4-layer perfect circle of Maximum Housing. I hope they keep those in mind for future scenarios.
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Nov 21, 2018 16:29
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Nothing wrong with devs adding in things people want.
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Nov 21, 2018 18:00
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It is pretty funny how in a game about creeping authoritarianism in the standard difficulties the objectively best strategy is to cultivate a healthy spirituality, institute a compassionate regime while retaining the ability to implement emergency measures or long hours for initial infrastructure, and then ultimately transition over to a low-labor robot-driven communist utopia with schools for all and (theoretically) enough of a labor surplus to support lots of leisure time. I have to admit I am super stoked about the idea of building gardens for pleasure and public squares, just to give people a sense of a truly beautiful city.
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Nov 21, 2018 19:48
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Yeah there's really no question that religion is the superior path for like 90% of circumstances and you can easily just build churches and shrines and a temple for the insanely strong benefits without going full-on theocracy with the faith keepers The foreman ability of Order is very good but it doesn't make up for the fact that guard stations need to be manned and heated while churches can just be cold empty monuments dotting the outskirts of your city
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Nov 21, 2018 21:24
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QuarkJets posted:Yeah there's really no question that religion is the superior path for like 90% of circumstances and you can easily just build churches and shrines and a temple for the insanely strong benefits without going full-on theocracy with the faith keepers This, more or less - but Order is clutch for overpopulated hellscapes like Refugees or Winterholm when you have too many people and time-constraint resource demands where you can't spare the investment for automatons.
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Nov 21, 2018 22:19
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I'm just starting this game and this game doesn't really tell you a lot, huh? I had no idea you didn't need paths (or even a gatherering post) to collect resources. Made the first hour or so really difficult. Are there any other obvious poo poo I'm missing? How do I feed the starting 70~ survivors? Even with two fully staffed hunting huts my food is dwindling. Also, when and how should I be using engineers? I know some stuff like the med post and the workshop only take engineers, but is there any reason to use them to collect resources other than manpower shortages?
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Nov 22, 2018 00:40
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Away all Goats posted:I'm just starting this game and this game doesn't really tell you a lot, huh? The probability of getting sick scales with the coldness of their workplace and home. So they may not complain about a cold tend or a cold coal mine or whatever, but you're still going to pay for it in a bunch of sick people who need sick beds and doctors to care for them. Try to keep places as warm as you can afford Scouts are the most efficient way to get resources, high-level play always involves getting scouts as soon as possible. Frostland is a rich source of all kinds of resources and often the only kind of way to get certain kinds of resources Roads are only needed to hook up buildings to your power network. Unpowered buildings can't be worked. Gathering posts are a good deal generally, as they provide heat to gatherers and are a lot more efficient than assigning workers directly to resource stacks. Sawmills are usually a waste of time to research. Wall Drills give limitless wood at a much higher rate, their only downside is that they require steam cores to be built. If you really can't afford to get wall drills and you need wood production then get the sawmill, but try not to get in that position It sounds like you may need a cookhouse. Don't forget to also man keep it manned. Otherwise build more hunting huts and/or get the various hunting techs to boost raw food production Some jobs can only be worked by engineers, such as medical posts, infirmaries, workshops, etc. Use them to man buildings that must have engineers. If you have spare engineers then you can just treat them like normal workers (and if you need engineers later you can hover over the Engineer label in the lower right to see where all of the engineers are currently working)
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Nov 22, 2018 06:30
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Heat is generally more important than food - sick people take a long time to recover early game and bog down your medical post. You definitely want to get your scouts out early, both for the resource boosts and for new population. Hunting hangers are manpower intensive, if you're going for them over hothouses you need to research the tree to get them more efficient.
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Nov 22, 2018 16:52
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Is there limit to the population in Endless mode? I started a serentiy game in the huge crater hoping to fill it with thousands of people and I haven't found any more survivors after I hit 700.
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Nov 22, 2018 18:28
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Thanks this was great advice. I was definitely neglecting heat too much and subsequently having labor problems as everyone was sick. I managed to survive to about day 31 until the temp dropped to -70c and compounded some other issues causing discontent to skyrocket and getting me banished. Coal seems to take up a huge amount of labor as the furnace + pumps seem to take more and more coal to keep up with the temp drops. Away all Goats fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Nov 22, 2018 |
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Nov 22, 2018 23:47
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More advice: Heaters are very inefficient and should be used for emergencies only, as in "oh God this cold spike caused all of my medical posts to shut down". Steam hubs and the generator itself should be the normal way that you heat areas Range and power upgrades cost significantly more coal, but after researching them you can turn down the power or range of the generator to conserve coal. If the temperature suddenly rises 20 degrees maybe consider turning the generator power down some, and definitely turn off your heaters. Don’t forget to set the range and operation times of your steam hubs. The default is for them to be on 24h but that's not necessary for most structures. Keep them at 24h for homes and healthcare buildings, reduce their operation time if they only heat other workplaces eg why would you heat the steelworks when there's no one inside?). Likewise the steamhub range upgrade is automatically turned on as soon as you research it, but probably you don't need most of that extra range right away so you're just wasting coal Hunter buildings, the beacon, the outpost building, and any building not employing people (such as warehouses) do not need to be heated! This includes churches and the temple! There's a bug with the care house where sometimes people in the care house will be gravely ill and will wait until the last possible moment before seeking medical attention, and then they die while walking to the doctor. The bonus for these buildings is pretty inconsequential (half rations for the people living there) so I build one for the hope bonus and then demolish it. Those cripples deserve full rations drat it Coal thumpers are your friend, you need a lot of workers (10 to thump and another 20-40 to gather) but they generate ridiculous quantities of coal. Charcoal kilns are fine too if you have wall drills; there's an achievement for only building charcoal kilns (ie no mines or thumpers). They consume a lot of wood, but they're an efficient use of workers if you have tons of wood resources. Some of maps don't have much wood (Refugees I think has the least) Outposts are very useful, and on New Home there's an outpost that gives 1 steam core per day. Very nice Child labor isn't very good, the research or healthcare bonuses from child shelters are way, way stronger. But if you really need the extra workers then do what you need to do People won't be able to eat unless you keep your cookhouse staffed. If you have 1 worker staffing the cookhouse and then that worker gets sick, then suddenly your city can no longer eat. I find that keeping at least 2 people working the cookhouse is sufficient. Tons of people on reddit complaining about a starving population have just had an understaffed cookhouse. Most efficient strategy starting out is usually to use emergency shifts to research the beacon asap. Scouts bring in insane levels of stuff QuarkJets fucked around with this message at 02:42 on Nov 23, 2018 |
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Nov 23, 2018 02:23
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Lots of good advice from QuarkJets, though I’d quibble that 24-hour shifts kill people; extended 14 hours shifts just piss them off and are probably better. Steel is often your biggest choke point - unlike coal and wood, you can’t just force production by throwing a lot of buildings at it. Your early industry should probably set up around where your steel is so you can heat it all together. As mentioned, you can add more heated area to the take by extending your generator’s range, or by dropping down steam hubs. Generator range increases aren’t actually as good as plopping down more hubs- each range increase adds a huge coal cost, and you’re forced to heat those areas 24 hours unless you want to try and time shutting off the generator. This often leads to breaking your city into a housing/medical core around the generator (where heat is needed 24/7 and you can estimate when you need another ring based on population) and exterior industry clustered around steam hubs (which you can run for business hours and move around as you need to move to different resource sites).
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Nov 23, 2018 03:30
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The first emergency shift is guaranteed to not kill anyone! So do it exactly once and then never again because overtime is way better
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Nov 23, 2018 04:39
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Hey also on Survivor mode I prioritize essential decisions like overcrowding and overtime but eventually discontent becomes an issue, at which point you can beeline to Moonshine. It's insane how well that decision deals with discontent. Just another reason to take Faith instead of Order (Order is slightly worse at raising hope and better at reducing discontent, but discontent is much easier to fix in general!)
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Nov 23, 2018 04:44
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