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Because he's a human trapped inside of a monster? It'd be as tragic if it'd been some random MP who'd tried to save Rick Jones and got blasted by the bomb and turned into the Hulk. Less ironic and greek tragedy, for sure. Quick inheritor's question, was Morlun ever meant to be Morbius? Cassa fucked around with this message at 08:21 on Nov 22, 2018 |
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Nov 22, 2018 08:07
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Skwirl posted:Has there ever been an issue of Bruce Banner Hulk that left you with a smile on your face? At least the last three issues of The Immortal Hulk .
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Nov 22, 2018 08:46
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Teenage Fansub posted:At least the last three issues of The Immortal Hulk . You smile at weird things, like that kid from high school they could never prove anything about but somehow showed up to fires before the fire department,
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Nov 22, 2018 08:48
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Skwirl posted:Wasn't Banner always at the Reed/Stark level? That's like half the tragedy of the whole thing. He's one of the smartest people on Earth but half the time he's a dumb monster that's stronger than literal gods. If he's not smarter than, I don't know, Peter Parker, why are we supposed to care about the Banner side of the equation? ...if the only reason you'd care about 'the Banner side of the equation' is him being smart, well, that's on you I guess. I kinda feel like it'd be tragic regardless. Anyways, yes Banner's always been a genius, but I've always disliked (and yes I'm well aware that this is basically just 'how it works' in comics and this is on me, no need to point it out) how being an expert in a field of science in a comic book makes you an expert in, apparently, everything; Banner's always been an expert in radiation, which I guess extrapolates to being a top-tier physicist, but to go from that to "I can make forcefields and zap guns and robots with advanced AI and poo poo" seemed like a hell of a jump to me, personally. At any rate, the point is yes, that scene happened in a Hulk solo title
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Nov 22, 2018 09:39
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I really enjoyed how Greg Pak started ramping up Bruce's tech side when he was de-Hulked. The Bannertech stuff was silly but still fun.
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Nov 22, 2018 09:44
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:...if the only reason you'd care about 'the Banner side of the equation' is him being smart, well, that's on you I guess. I kinda feel like it'd be tragic regardless. There's a reason it's Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde and not Mr Jekyll and Mr Hyde.
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Nov 22, 2018 09:47
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I do think that there is a tragic element to Bruce Banner if he is this genius master of science who can build wonders. But when he messed about with Gamma Radiation he opened a Pandora's box he will never be able to close. It shows Man's hubris when it comes to mastering the Universe and adds a tragic element that almost makes the Hulk a Greek curse. (In fact Pak made it literally like this by having an arc with Zeus.) And I do like the Hulk being this powerful force that is sometimes a major force for good. But that he is a curse that you don't walk away from and can ruin your life.
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Nov 22, 2018 13:43
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Speaking of smart losers, is the point of Spider-Geddon just to sweep all the cool Spider-People under the rug, while worst character find of 2018 Sexy Doc Ock remains?
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Nov 22, 2018 16:34
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The Question IRL posted:But when he messed about with Gamma Radiation he opened a Pandora's box he will never be able to close.
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Nov 22, 2018 17:27
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Future Imperfect and Hulk:The End, both Peter David. Yes, getting what he famously wants (to be left alone) is one of his tragic fates...
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Nov 22, 2018 18:01
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Why does the Hulk want t be left alone so much? I get that for him when he's not being left alone he's getting chased by helicopters or Red Hulks but there should be a happy medium.
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Nov 22, 2018 18:28
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The Hulk doesn't like himself and society, in general, hates and fears him. He has the instinctive antipathy of Frankenstein's monster.
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Nov 22, 2018 18:44
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Sometime during the PAD/Frank run of Hulk there was a scene where Samson goes off on Bruce for being unwilling to continue therapy and just lays into him hardcore. Bruce is staring in a mirror and sees the Maestro's face (this was just after FI) and smashes the mirror. He then breaks down crying in from of Leonard, begging him not to leave. It was very powerful when I read it back in like 1992 or so. Really hooked me in and made me a Hulk fan.
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Nov 22, 2018 19:11
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Rhyno posted:Sometime during the PAD/Frank run of Hulk there was a scene where Samson goes off on Bruce for being unwilling to continue therapy and just lays into him hardcore. Bruce is staring in a mirror and sees the Maestro's face (this was just after FI) and smashes the mirror. He then breaks down crying in from of Leonard, begging him not to leave. It was very powerful when I read it back in like 1992 or so. Really hooked me in and made me a Hulk fan. Hulk: The End had great bit where in the far future and everyone is dead. But he still shaves. Because if he doesn't he'll grow a beard. And look like the Maestro. And even at the end of the world, he won't let that happen.
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Nov 22, 2018 21:54
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Rhyno posted:Sometime during the PAD/Frank run of Hulk there was a scene where Samson goes off on Bruce for being unwilling to continue therapy and just lays into him hardcore. Bruce is staring in a mirror and sees the Maestro's face (this was just after FI) and smashes the mirror. He then breaks down crying in from of Leonard, begging him not to leave. It was very powerful when I read it back in like 1992 or so. Really hooked me in and made me a Hulk fan. I really need to reread PAD's run, even if it got sort of saggy towards the end.
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Nov 22, 2018 21:57
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Archyduchess posted:I really need to reread PAD's run, even if it got sort of saggy towards the end. Well they pulled Banner out of the book without telling him in advance so he had to replot 6 months worth of stories he'd already turned in and basically come up with a new story direction overnight. Then when he finally got Bruce back and the book looked to be on track they shitcanned him and he had 3 issues to wrap up his entire run.
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Nov 22, 2018 22:44
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How was Banner by Azzarello? Oh, and the first Venom trade is available now at your local comic shop. Picked that up, and the first issue of Cates Carnage mini.
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Nov 23, 2018 03:01
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Diet Poison posted:I really like this focus on Banner/Hulk being unable to truly die and how that's the real horror of the thing. Personally I don't care whether Banner's a Comic Book Genius or just a regular Joe who'd rather not spend half his time as a monster. I also think he's infinitely more interesting when he's not being "the Avengers' heavy". I've not read much solo Hulk- have they done a "The Hulk at the End of Everything" sort of story like Aaron's doing with Thor and Wolverine? I guess he was in the newest Thanos story for a bit. Also a timeline of Hulk that breaks down his personality would be nice, given how much he fluctuates from "stupid and just wants to be alone" to "smart and wants to be a hero" to "smart and savagely violent" etc. run by run. Pre mcu hulk was not the avengers heavy. He was more likely to be fighting them than be be a member. Doing a timeline with his personality like that is a bit tough as post Mantlo the multi personality becomes part of the character so runs have different versions within their run.
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Nov 23, 2018 03:57
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I find Hulk kind of fascinating in just how little consistency there was, even in the "classic" Marvel Lee/Kirby/et all days. He'd just change abilities, personalities, everything arc to arc to arc, while you had other heroes like the Fantastic Four and Spider-Man who more or less were fully formed within a year of their books starting out. It's sort of fostered this idea where, to this day, I think the core of the Hulk as a character is change. Sure, dumb childish "HULK SMASH" is the one in the pop culture mindscape because it shows up the most in non-comics media, but even that version of the character pops up only occasionally. Honestly at this point it feels like there's just as many Smart Hulk stories as there are Dumb Hulk ones. Blockhouse fucked around with this message at 04:09 on Nov 23, 2018 |
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Nov 23, 2018 04:07
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Remember the time Hulk disguised himself as a super strong robot clown so he could hide out in a circus for about one page the first or second issue of Avengers? He should do that again.
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Nov 23, 2018 14:40
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There was a call back to that in a post PAD Joe Casey issue.
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Nov 23, 2018 14:57
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So Ock didn't just betray the spiders after kicking Osborn out of the group for betraying the spiders, did he?
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Nov 23, 2018 19:52
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Soonmot posted:So Ock didn't just betray the spiders after kicking Osborn out of the group for betraying the spiders, did he? Ock made the right choice as usual, yes.
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Nov 23, 2018 19:59
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Every decision Ock has made in this book just makes everything worse as everyone tells him he’s wrong. Miles would have wrapped this up in an afternoon with more Spider-People than he started with.
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Nov 23, 2018 20:33
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Rhyno posted:There was a call back to that in a post PAD Joe Casey issue. In Dan Slott’s run on the Thing, Arcade lured The Thing and other billionaires (Ben was loaded at the time) to Murderwold. He had a bunch of Hulk robots, each representing a different incarnation of Hulk. One was his Robot-clown form from that issue.
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Nov 23, 2018 21:10
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The Question IRL posted:In Dan Slott’s run on the Thing, Arcade lured The Thing and other billionaires (Ben was loaded at the time) to Murderwold. Ah well anyone wanting to read that would have to suffer through the writings of Dan Slott so I guess it's forever lost to the ages.
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Nov 23, 2018 22:07
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Rhyno posted:Ah well anyone wanting to read that would have to suffer through the writings of Dan Slott so I guess it's forever lost to the ages. It was a fun series, idiot.
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Nov 23, 2018 22:50
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Yeah, I think most of Slott's work before ASM was rather good. My contempt for him is mostly reduced to Spider-Man stuff but I have no issue recognizing that he can be pretty good.
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Nov 24, 2018 03:18
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Endless Mike posted:It was a fun series, idiot. But who among us would dare risk exposure?
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Nov 24, 2018 04:07
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Yo if you aren't reading Ghost Panther you're missing out! I'm really happy with how it turned out.
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Nov 24, 2018 13:14
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Speaking of Dan Slott (who I do not reflexively hate but has written a lot more bad than good in my opinion, even outside of his endless Spider-Man run) is anyone reading his Iron Man run? The big overarching "futurist mission" in the book is Tony wanting to create The eScape which kept getting talked about as the most advanced and incredible and world-changing piece of technology the world has ever seen, something Tony Stark could finally be proud of, his mark in history, his legacy. It debuts in this week's issue and it's.... an Iron Man faceplate that links you into a VR simulation where you can be a superhero or a Pokemon? There's a whole lot of old man writing with people camping out for days to get eScape accounts... or... uh... masks? But the masks are only "merch"? And it's an online MMO but a group of robbers are trying to steal a tractor trailer truck of copies of "Tony's video game". Which is actually the one thing I'm kind of willing to say confidently "Dan Slott doesn't know what the gently caress he is talking about" "The eScape", whatever form the retail version may take, is allegedly so popular that people are camped out to buy it despite it being on the market for weeks, and going for "twelve times the retail price" on eBay. This makes Tony's game "worth more than gold or platinum". Which is technically true, gold is worth about $40 a gram, so a $50 Cracker Barrel Gift Card is "worth more than gold" on some level. This is why for people who aren't Dan Slott the term is that something is "worth its weight in gold", which if that Cracker Barrel Gift Card is virtual means it is worth infinitely more than gold by weight. Later on Tony says he's proud of making something "worth more than diamonds", which again... it's good that Tony is finally taking some pride and thinking his work is important. But also he's livestreaming the truck heist to the game, and millions of people worldwide are "playing along" and it's overloading his armor circuits or something, because that's how server lag works! Anyway a lot of the other stuff can be waved away as fart machine comics science and by the end of the issue a supervillain has hacked into the admin functions and given all admin powers to banned trolls and IF U DIE IN THE GAME, U DIE IN REAL LIFE!~~~~!! so it's not like he's actually going to explore any of this poo poo. But the "people are camping out for days to purchase access to an online game that launched weeks ago and buying copies for (conservatively) $3000 which is more than gold!" stuff seemed like the biggest slap in the face to the concept of Dan Slott, Adult Who Lives In The World to me for some reason.
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Nov 24, 2018 15:31
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Please do his FF next.
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Nov 24, 2018 16:57
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Rhyno posted:Please do his FF next. Reed’s bullshit science has always been magical nonsense wrapped in a machine so it’s a lot easier for Slott to not gently caress it up. His first arc so far was pretty straight forward and simple and a way to reunite the F4 (along with every previous F4 member) while having Reed be the smartest man in the room. His Iron Man run is a loving mess because he’s trying to give Tony something that’s not a weapon and that the world will clamor and go for in order to have something for him to be proud of but... VR is the stupidest loving thing you can go for. Slott is loving committed to it for some reason so as E&C says he just keeps adding layers and layers to this whole escape thing while trying to prop it and NONE of it is working. At all. I think there’s a good story in there somewhere with the cast he has. Tony and Rhodey have a good dynamic especially with both of them playing with the “we just died recently” card. Jocasta kinda acting as an AI protector and asking question about sentience in technology (especially when dealing with Tony’s armors) I think can lead to interesting stories. I never cared much for Arno or Tony’s actual family but hey they’re there too. But the whole VR and Tony insisting that his company is now an entertainment thing and trying to make this one mass appeal thing? Complete loving mess and Slott is going to continue leaning on it like an idiot.
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Nov 24, 2018 17:10
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Yeah, like Happy Noodle Boy said, there's a layer of forgiveness with Cosmic/Magic Comic Book Stuff where you can think that Spiderverse or something like that is dumb, but since I have no real world experience with The Web of Life or how a group of Victorian Cosplayers whose whole gimmick is eating Spider-Mans can be super allergic to radiation except when they're not, so long as a fantasy story plays by its fantasy rules (and doesn't keep reversing/complicating them, Geoff Johns) I can play along. Slott's Iron Man, in addition to having the handicap of being by Dan Slott, is trying to do Real World Business and Technology Stuff, which unfortunately for him is a thing that people actually have Real World Experience in. Unlike The Emotional Spectrum or the Infinity Stones or whatever, these stories are rooted in how real people/masses of people/businesses run. It's almost not worth picking on it for this outside of this issue's brutally dumb "video games worth more than diamonds!" stuff, but this is a problem with doing BUSINESS in superhero comics in general, and one much better writers than Slott bang up against. The storyline isn't finished yet but the current Weapon H thing about Roxxon colonizing/pillaging/exploiting the natural resources of Weirdworld sort of hinges on the idea of "they're torturing Morgan Le Fay and the politics of Weirdworld are in chaos because the former dictator queen is trapped in a generator siphoning her infinite power" as a metaphor for I dunno, all of the Oil Adventuring in the Middle East done by western powers for the past hundred years or so. Except Morgan Le Fay really is a genocidal monster the likes of which the real world doesn't have any comparison, an eternal being who's killed millions and tried to kill or mind control billions. She's not from Weirdworld so it's not like she's a natural resource, and having such a power source in the control of an even-more-evil-than-normal corporation is a real issue, but society/the universe is unquestionably benefitting from converting her murderous impulses into electric lights or whatever in a way that i don't think any real world comparison can convey. It would be good to fight to turn her into a public utility, but I'm not convinced it's good to fight to free her. A more direct comparison I think is Joe Casey's WIldcats 3.0 which I know a lot of people love but the entire thing read to me like: "We will release this game-changing product into the market. It will blow away the competition. It's expensive to make but we have infinite resources so i'm not worried about making a profit." GAME CHANGING! YOU'RE A DISRUPTED, SPARTAN! "People are trying to compete with our product. We'll just give it away for free." ART OF THE DEAL! WARREN BUFFETT AIN'T GOT poo poo ON YOU! "A corporation stands in our way of doing this. We will buy them, with our infinite money." YOU ARE A NEGOTIATOR AND PLANNER THE LIKES THE WORLD HAS NEVER SEEN If it was supposed to turn into like a critique of capitalism or this was just setting the stage for an exploration of a post-scarcity economy with superheroes or whatever fair enough, but it took up so much of the book and felt like someone wanted to write high stakes Sorkin-y Business Process stuff with God Mode on or something. The ascent of a corporation with infinite resources in a finite world is just something that you can pass by fiat.
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Nov 24, 2018 18:56
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Edge & Christian posted:Speaking of Dan Slott (who I do not reflexively hate but has written a lot more bad than good in my opinion, even outside of his endless Spider-Man run).... That sounds dumb, but in a way that is just "your understanding of how entertainment and digital media works is 15 years out of date." Like there would be a time when newly released games would have sold out and been super valuable. That's just not nowadays. For my money the worst misunderstanding of real world science in a comic would be Grant Morrison and the Internet. When he wasn't doing the Internet 2.0 in his Batman INC story, he had Oracle pull the plug on the whole Internet (which looked like it ran directly from her computer) in Final Crisis.
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Nov 24, 2018 18:58
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The Question IRL posted:That sounds dumb, but in a way that is just "your understanding of how entertainment and digital media works is 15 years out of date." Like there would be a time when newly released games would have sold out and been super valuable. That's just not nowadays. Is the idea that Tony Stark (who has shown no limitations re: capital or production capacity of... whatever the thing people are buying is) is throttling production so that people will wait in line for days and sell them for "more than diamonds or gold'? And then bragging about it? If it turns out this is supposed to be a villainous prideful act Stark must atone for then okay, but otherwise it's really dumb. It's like the Tinder story where [mysterious villain] creates an app that will determine your ideal mate and then create an artificial human being with those exact traits that no one will realize is an artificial intelligence/body in order to.... steal Stark's intellectual property and profit from it? Because creating soulmates doesn't require a lot of resources and isn't marketable in and of itself? Slott keeps comparing his run to Black Mirror, and I haven't seen all of Black Mirror but all of the ones I have seem to benefit from having someone around to go "well if X, then how does Y work?" and also the smaller scope that Slott doesn't have doing a long-ish run in a shared universe. Mostly the former though. I'm not saying any of this eScape stuff was a good idea, but there are all sorts of interesting unintended consequences/subcultures that crop up in online communities you could extrapolate out into a comic book. I am here for whatever version of TF2 Hat Economy that Crimson Dynamo tries to set up in eScape, but we're not getting that, we're getting IF U DIE IN THE GAME U DIE IN REAL LIFE Harsh Realm nonsense.
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Nov 24, 2018 19:20
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The frequently used description of Black Mirror is "What if X but too much" where X can be cell phones, video games, social media etc. In case of Slott's writing X is clearly "old white man who is gloriously out of touch with what is cool and hip."
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Nov 24, 2018 19:24
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I mean to be fair that could also describe the original Stan Lee run and that’s iconic
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Nov 24, 2018 19:32
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Oh no crusher 
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Nov 24, 2018 19:52
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Superior Iron Man's money making scheme was the one I could actually see working.
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Nov 24, 2018 21:58
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