|
I was actually trying to work out why the two votes on Angelina and I think that the Alec/Alison/Kara bloc had actually decided to do the split vote with the Davids. But they didn't know about their advantages. So the plan was 5 votes on Dan, 3 votes on Christian, 3 on Angelina. That way, if Dan used his idol, that would give the Goliath trio the power in the re-vote, as they could either vote out Angelina or go back to the Goliaths and knock out Christian. But then Nick used his vote steal, giving the power back to the Davids. Kara and Alec probably just looked at each other and go, 'well, stick to the plan I guess..?'
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2018 09:42
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 14:39 |
|
|
This week's tribal council was just 
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2018 10:01
|
|
|
this is a really good season.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2018 11:51
|
|
|
After that play I was expecting Dan to lose his poo poo and could you even blame him? Playing the idol correctly and still going home has to hurt a lot. I can't believe how good this season has gotten, I need to go back and rewatch though because I'm kinda confused as to whos working with who.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2018 12:50
|
|
|
AMAZING Tribal and bonus amazing scene where the Davids all lay their cards on the table and break Gabby's brain. That look of Dan's smug smile fading away when the nullifier gets played is amazing. The gradual realization Alec and Allison had that they really kind of screwed everything up was amazing. That was so much fun.CODChimera posted:After that play I was expecting Dan to lose his poo poo and could you even blame him? Playing the idol correctly and still going home has to hurt a lot. I will always cherish the Fall of Dan. I hated that dude for some reason I still haven't fully processed. But "It took two powers to take me out so I'm going to take it as a compliment" kind of sums it up. ApplesandOranges posted:I was actually trying to work out why the two votes on Angelina and I think that the Alec/Alison/Kara bloc had actually decided to do the split vote with the Davids. But they didn't know about their advantages. So the plan was 5 votes on Dan, 3 votes on Christian, 3 on Angelina. That way, if Dan used his idol, that would give the Goliath trio the power in the re-vote, as they could either vote out Angelina or go back to the Goliaths and knock out Christian. Yeah, we saw the three of them communicating with each other after Nick and getting on the same page. We don't know what they would have done if Nick hadn't used the power but once he did they all agreed to go with the majority plan, which was the discussed vote split. Good on the Davids for making sure the plan was "we're gonna all vote for one person and you suspicious motherfuckers vote for the other person". The problem is, obviously, that the Davids have no reason to actually trust Kara and they have negative reason to trust Alec and Allison. Alec seemed like he really got kind of caught up in that in the Tribal conversation and you could see the Davids he had just backstabbed being all "Huh?" I actually wouldn't be super surprised to see Alec as the target next week. Angelina's isolated and hapless and has every reason to screw the Goliaths over and Alec is at the center of the rest of the Goliaths and a major immunity threat. And of course, he's established himself as an untrustworthy snake. If he doesn't win immunity he seems like the smart play for the Davids. Zesty posted:The music was great this episode. I love the editing. Like, I understand her conundrum. She set up the big move of working with the Davids, she chickened out, the Davids made a move and it backfired hard in her face, her instinct is to do something big to try and fix her regrets, but at the same time she has to deal with the fact that she burned her trust with the Davids already and it might be a fool's errand. But like when she and Alec go and make a SECOND deal with the Davids and then decide to betray that one too? If I was Kara I would have lost my mind on them.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2018 15:22
|
|
|
Allison also has to know that she can't win against a David. Every single one of them other than Gabby and Christian have pulled out a result changing advantage. They all have the scrappy underdog story. It'd be harder for the Goliaths to make it to the end united, but it's honestly their best chance to win. Alec is probably the only one right now with a resume that could match a David. That's actually good incentive for Gabby to flip, though; she has to know that she can't beat her other Davids, and going to the end with a couple Goliaths gives her an actual chance if she doesn't hurt too many feelings on the way. STAC Goat posted:I will always cherish the Fall of Dan. I hated that dude for some reason I still haven't fully processed. But "It took two powers to take me out so I'm going to take it as a compliment" kind of sums it up. Dan kinda reminds me of Worlds Apart Rodney (oh man can you imagine if he was on that season with Rodney and Joaquin?). They both sulk. Rodney was an actual jury threat to win though, while Dan would pretty much have needed a Mike Holloway streak to win. I don't really mind Dan that much, but he's definitely got a bit of immaturity and paranoia he needed to work through to play a good Survivor game.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2018 15:49
|
|
|
I don't think it makes any real sense for Gabby or any of the other Davids to get too tricky at this stage. They've tried and it hasn't worked. The Goliaths are too slimy (and I don't mean that as a pejorative but rather in a literal "unable to get a grip on" sense) and untrustworthy and the Davids have proven too wily. So its just best to stick together for now, which is why they all just came clean with each other instead of trying to be selfish with their powers. Like if you're Gabby ideally you'd steer people away from Allison and Angelina and then maybe make a move with the girls later after Alec and Mike are gone. But trying to do anything like that too early or too hard could so easily blow up in your face at this moment and how could you ever trust either of them with even a conversation? That's why I again bring up Kara, because I really felt for her subplot here. She takes a temper tantrum from Dan and decides he's a liability to her game, discusses the merits of flipping with Alec and Allison, confesses to them that Dan has the idol and she wants to target him, they go and make a deal with the Davids and she tips them off about Dan, and then Alec and Allison are all "nah, we should stick with the Goliaths." Not only were they asking Kara to betray the Davids after just making a deal with them but she just sold Dan down the river and it could so easily have come back on her. All the Goliaths just have so much unnecessary blood on their hands after the last couple of weeks despite not actually accomplishing a single move between them. Its almost to the point where I think Angelina's game position might have improved just by being boxed out of the gameplay since its all blown up in their faces.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2018 16:04
|
|
|
It's kind of hard for the Goliaths, because for a few weeks their best strategy has genuinely been ' The worst thing for the Goliaths (or really, any future flippers) is that you usually only want to flip if it puts you in a better position, which is an actual good point that Dan made at Tribal Council. Why flip from a relatively stable three in the Goliath six to the bottom three in an alliance of eight? The Davids all look strong together (Carl is the only one that might be on the outs). The problem is that wait too long to flip, and then you just look opportunistic or the people you'd want to work with are gone. Alec and Allison committed too quickly, true, but I can't fault them too much for realizing that sticking with the Davids would be bad for them. If I was a David who wanted to make a cross tribal alliance, Angelina is legit their best person to work with at the moment. She's sneaky, but in such a transparent way that it's a devil you know vs devil you don't situation. Which is why I could see an all girl alliance slowly coming to form if the Goliath girls don't get taken out in next week's double boot episode. It benefits everyone in that alliance (Gabby shouldn't go to the end with Davids, and Gabby is the least threatening David that the Goliaths could team up with).
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2018 16:12
|
|
|
I'm not sure Gabby CAN win but there's a lot of game left. Yeah, the girls are probably her best bet it also leaves her at their mercy and arguably could put her in a worse finishing position than with the Davids. The best move might be something like Alec - Kara - Mike so the ALL GIRLS isn't too obvious. Build something with Angelina while you nurse the thing with Allison, try to keep them against each other, and hope the David guys make the first move on each other so you don't have to get too bloody. But Gabby's probably ending up in that position where she has to weight the pros and cons of risking blowing up her game for any chance to win. But yeah, my problem with Alec and Allison isn't their decision to stick with the Goliaths. Its the wishy washiness played out so openly. Its fine to not know the best path. They're in a tricky position. And I understand their reasoning for sticking with the Goliaths. But stop cutting deals with the Davids until you're actually confident you want to follow through. You're just sabotaging your own games. And then they kind of sabotaged Kara's game too which is just more potential collateral damage. I think there's also a broader argument to make that the Goliaths in general just were too comfortable and complacent, while the Davids were basically forced to be wily out of necessity to the point where we saw multiple scenes of them working together to find advantages. Alec and Allison kind of landed in the middle where they didn't NEED to be wily, they tried anyway, but then they backed out back into the comfort of the majority and it blew up in their faces. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Nov 22, 2018 |
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2018 16:29
|
|
|
It really is astonishing how badly the Goliaths have screwed up the past two weeks, especially the former Strike Force. By flirting with the Davids only to turn around and betray them twice, they have effectively destroyed any trust the Davids might have for them. By making their impending betrayals obvious and not interacting with the Davids, they not only allowed them to form countermeasures, but they effectively forced them to become incredibly tight allies just to survive. The Davids were not a united force coming into the merge! Gabby, Christian, and Nick voted against Carl and Davie! Nick threw Gabby under the bus! The divide and conquer was there for the taking, but the Goliaths got scared and started playing conservative. Even Alec, who had been doing the best job of keeping his David lines of communication open, screwed up, got lazy, and burned his bridges last night. Now, any Goliath coming to the Davids is going to seem like a desperate rat abandoning a sinking ship rather than a legitimate, trustworthy ally. They are likely to be used and thrown away, or possibly kept around as a Kass-caliber goat, but they have basically no chance to win. And somebody will come to them. I don't think there is a chance in hell that all five remaining Goliaths are willing to go to rocks for each other. But I think at this point the Davids would, and the Goliaths have no one to blame for it but themselves.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2018 16:38
|
|
|
I wouldn't paint all the Goliaths with the same brush, though. Mike/Alec/Alison screwed up most of the game for them. Yes Dan was a motor mouth and John was probably a bit too 'Goliath strong', but they didn't torpedo their own alliance. If anything, those two and Angelina just got screwed by their own allies. And I doubt that the Davids are gonna stay David strong, either. They seem tight now, but they're all also aware that they shouldn't be sitting next to each other at the end. Does that mean the Goliaths are destined to be goats? I doubt that too; there are seven votes left before FTC. Plenty of time for something to change.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2018 16:51
|
|
|
John played fine but he admitted he played a little too complacently and if had been a bit more proactive with the Davids he might have survived. That was a mature and self aware way to evaluate his own game when he could have definitely gotten away with blaming it on things outside his control. Dan and Angelina made total messes of their games though, just in different ways than the Striker Force did. Dan's played cocky and clearly too much "big manning" it besides telling people about his idols. And he made an enemy of Angelina for no real purpose. And Angelina's just doesn't really seem to have the ability to see her own mistakes and or bad instincts and has been sabotaging her game since the jacket-gate and maybe even further back to Jeremy. You could arguably chalk both up to immaturity and a lack of self awareness but they're both pretty grown rear end adults so they probably are what they are. Kara's the one left who I think mostly (like John) has just gotten kind of screwed by circumstances and her allies. Dan's been a liability and Alec and Allison kind of screwed her attempts to reach across the aisle. Now I think she's kind of left without a country and I'm not sure she could have done anything different to change that. Davids SHOULD stick together a couple of Tribals to kill the Goliaths but yeah, they're only a united force out of necessity and that can break. Carl and Gabby have had social problems in the game, Christian's still a huge target, and Nick has always been one of the more proactive/sketchy instinctual players. If he even flat out said he WANTED to work with the Goliaths but they just made it impossible. Sooner or later he'll start itching to make a move again, probably. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 17:03 on Nov 22, 2018 |
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2018 17:01
|
|
|
It's not like Davids have a stranglehold on this game, it's still 5/5 next week.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2018 17:02
|
|
|
Lone Goat posted:It's not like Davids have a stranglehold on this game, it's still 5/5 next week. True but it seems hard to imagine the Goliaths uniting to force a tie and the pressure on the Davids. Especially after three of them voted for Angelina. Logic suggests Angelina will flip and/or those three flippers will try and get some trust with the Davids. Inertia should probably hold the Davids together for at least one more Tribal since they've been able to hold it together for 2 way more sketchy ones. After that it gets shakier.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2018 17:05
|
|
|
I think the Davids will stay David strong for at least a couple more votes, because the Goliaths have just very clearly demonstrated that if they had their druthers, they'd vote off all the Davids in a row and have an all Goliath endgame. If the Davids allow them to get the numbers again, that's probably exactly what they'll default to again. So whatever the Davids' beef with each other might be, the five of them have worked too hard to even up the numbers to give that advantage back. They will have to betray each other eventually, but I don't think it'll be soon enough to matter to the Goliaths' odds of winning.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2018 17:08
|
|
|
Yeah, its the old "forged through Tribals" thing. Davids didn't even really want to work together but the Goliaths have made it their only real play. They clearly recognize that and were flat out verbalizing it in Tribal. Coming clean with all their powers and working together is just the stuff that builds trust and momentum. And the inverse is that a majority that rolls like Goliaths were tend to not only get complacent but when things go wrong they tend to panic and fall apart. Just look at the way Dan freaked out and Kara immediately flipped when they still had the majority. It just seems super unlikely they'll pull it together now after half of them voted for Angelina or that the Davids can't hold it together one more week to finish the job they've worked so hard to pull off.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2018 17:12
|
|
|
Angelina and Dan screwed up their own games and likely mismanaged their allies, but at least they didn't burn down the house like the other Goliaths. They would have ultimately taken heat for their social play down the road, but what really screwed them over was Alec leaking information. It's not like Angelina could have played the last few weeks better either; she got some heat for the Elizabeth pandering, but Alec was already looking out for Christian and she got just as advantage screwed as the other Goliaths. It's actually why I think she's in a better position than Kara/Alec/Allison; you have to be either an expert in social play or ruthless enough to earn respect if you're going to flip flop. At the very least she's, in a weird way, loyal.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2018 17:14
|
|
|
I don't think I'd call Angelina loyal and I don't think she can super make the case. I mean, her first big self sabotage was the slimy move to betray Natalie but still vote for her to try and get her jacket. That's... not a great impression for "loyalty." But I do agree that because she was basically boxed out of the gameplay the last two weeks she's kind of moved up by default while the others went down. Yeah, she hosed up and burned her game but she did it early enough that she was already sidelined when some new Goliaths started doing the same. I don't know how much of that is her making the game decision to lay low or just her playing herself into a position where she had no choice or power. But either way its worked out and theoretically puts her in a position to leverage for a better spot and another chance the next couple of tribals. Sometimes it just pays to lay back and hope someone screws up worst than you and takes the heat off. I don't think she's really got the game or social skills to pull it off to a winning end, but she's got an opening.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2018 17:24
|
|
|
Using the vote steal to bait Kara and Alec into showing their rear end and effectively disintegrating the Goliath alliance was such a strong move, I'm v impressed.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2018 17:25
|
|
|
I don't usually look at the Ponderosa videos, but the last bit of Dan's is great. Skip to about 7:00.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2018 18:00
|
|
|
ApplesandOranges posted:Angelina and Dan screwed up their own games and likely mismanaged their allies, but at least they didn't burn down the house like the other Goliaths. They would have ultimately taken heat for their social play down the road, but what really screwed them over was Alec leaking information. It's not like Angelina could have played the last few weeks better either; she got some heat for the Elizabeth pandering, but Alec was already looking out for Christian and she got just as advantage screwed as the other Goliaths. By the same token, she might make for a better target next week than Alec or Allison, who are dangerously close (if not there already) to becoming radioactive. It would be fairly easy for the Davids to rally the vote around her and ensure their majority. In any case, I think Mike is the person they want to take out, however. He's more capable of stirring the pot and smoothtalking his way back into somebody's good graces.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2018 18:30
|
|
|
Oh Angelina should definitely be the Davids' target, I doubt any of the other Goliaths would want to go to rocks for her, either. She's either going to be the most obvious target, or if the other Goliaths flip, be saved because then the Davids have the numbers to take out an actual potential threat like Mike or Alec.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2018 18:43
|
|
|
I think it would be a potential mistake to go after Angelina the same reason it was a mistake for the Goliaths to go after Elizabeth. She might be easy but she's easy because she's isolated and powerless. And possibly gunning for the Goliaths who betrayed her. Why clean out your enemy's enemy? Mike might be a better target since he was obviously outside the flipper group of Goliaths but doesn't have the same burnt bridges with them Angelina does. But honestly, I think they should just take the shot at Alec in the core of the Goliaths. I have a hard time believing that the Goliaths would all go to rocks for him, especially Angelina. And even if they were willing would they trust each other, especially Angelina, to do that and not just set them up? Every single one of them has betrayed people in this game the same way except arguably Angelina, and she just had three of them write her name down. And there's no reason in the world the Davids should trust the Goliaths to vote with them and not try and pull something if they did try a unified vote. There's a chance it can screw them but I say keep up the united front, mislead the Goliaths and tell them you're voting out Angelina or Mike, and then take your shot at Alec (or Kara/Allison if he wins immunity). I think that's got better odds than any move where you trust or try and reach out to the Goliaths.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2018 18:59
|
|
|
ApplesandOranges posted:I don't usually look at the Ponderosa videos, but the last bit of Dan's is great. Skip to about 7:00. This is amazing.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2018 20:48
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2018 01:07
|
|
|
This was a perfect scene. edit: Also this one... 
STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 01:53 on Nov 23, 2018 |
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2018 01:27
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2018 04:41
|
|
|
this is an episode i'll direct people to next time advantages are complained about. that was a lot of fun to watch. and stuff actually worked as intended for once.ApplesandOranges posted:I don't usually look at the Ponderosa videos, but the last bit of Dan's is great. Skip to about 7:00. always kind of a shame to see something that makes me like a person more AFTER they get voted out.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2018 04:45
|
|
|
STAC Goat posted:
Oh yeah absolutely. Of all the people there I'm glad he was the one to fall to the nullifier.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2018 09:30
|
|
|
ApplesandOranges posted:I don't usually look at the Ponderosa videos, but the last bit of Dan's is great. Skip to about 7:00. This actually changed my opinion of Dan, for the better. Amazing.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2018 15:56
|
|
|
ApplesandOranges posted:I don't usually look at the Ponderosa videos, but the last bit of Dan's is great. Skip to about 7:00. You'd think that now that Canadians are allowed to be on Survivor they wouldn't get geolocked from these videos, yet here we are.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2018 16:15
|
|
|
Lone Goat posted:You'd think that now that Canadians are allowed to be on Survivor they wouldn't get geolocked from these videos, yet here we are. A YouTube proxy works (which is how I watched it in the first place). Also I had completely forgotten til his Ponderosa that Dan had two daughters.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2018 17:03
|
|
|
Goliath strong is summed up in Dan's "just keep telling yourself how awesome you are" line
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2018 17:19
|
|
|
Lone Goat posted:You'd think that now that Canadians are allowed to be on Survivor they wouldn't get geolocked from these videos, yet here we are. Subscribe to this Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsVwMWYJ7xM Puts up all the behind the scenes and Ponderosa videos a day or two after the episode.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2018 17:51
|
|
|
ApplesandOranges posted:I don't usually look at the Ponderosa videos, but the last bit of Dan's is great. Skip to about 7:00. This is a pro recomendation
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2018 18:14
|
|
|
Nick explained his reasoning behind stealing Alison's vote: "You used your vote steal against Alison, even though Dan was the ultimate target. Why take Alison's vote? I stole Alison's vote for a few reasons. First, I wanted to misdirect who we were voting for in hopes of tricking Dan into playing his idol on Alison. If Dan played his idol on Alison, then Jeff would not have revealed that an idol nullifier had been played, or even existed, and the vote steal would get all the credit for the big move. Second, Alison and I did have somewhat of a working relationship, despite her decision to remain Goliath strong. I knew if I gave her a good explanation on why I stole her vote, she would understand and be able to trust me again. Other players who are less analytical than Alison might take it personally and never consider working with me again. Third, and shamefully perhaps most enticing (although not most strategic), is that Alison is totally the most fun person to troll. She was devastated that I stole her vote and was totally freaking out. The whole time the rest of us were voting, she was checking her pulse and fighting back tears. I felt guilty the next morning and so bad for her watching it back now. But at the time, I wanted the Davids' haymaker to land and cause as much damage as possible to totally obliterate "Goliath strong," if not humiliate them for lying to the Davids and overlooking us as important players in the game. " I'm convinced that Nick is both extremely crafty and potentially playing it really close to burning some people with his moves. If done to a less strategic player he might have lost a jury vote.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2018 18:47
|
|
|
Yeah, Nick's smart but he seems at constant battle with that same Alec "gently caress it" mentality. Like that was my immediate instinct with him and the "I'm gonna form an alliance with everyone" strategy that I was absolutely certain would blow up spectacularly (kind of similar to the way Alec's seems to be). But he's surprised me and been pretty good but I could still definitely see him ending up like a Zeke and just screwing up his game by having a little too much fun. But in this case it sounds like either the "trolling" thing was a "bonus" or he at least came up with game "excuses" to do it. So we'll see.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2018 19:07
|
|
|
It would be a surprise if somebody other than Davey or Nick won at this point tbh. The Goliaths are self-destructing/turning into goats. Gabby hasn't really done much of anything. Carl is kind of a dick and will probably get himself voted out. Christian is Probable Winner #3 but has way too big a target on his back, and doesn't have the luxury of being enough of a challenge beast to Mike Holloway his way through until the end. Its gotta be one of those two guys. Vernacular fucked around with this message at 21:52 on Nov 23, 2018 |
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2018 21:42
|
|
|
Gabby and Carl do feel vaguely dead in the water but I think its a little too early to write them off entirely. Neither has been floating or anything but its only Final 10. There's some time left. But I feel like everyone's kind of downplaying the fact that there's still likely gonna be more Goliaths on the jury than Davids. That's not an issue if its all Davids at the end but that seems like a big leap and it creates a direct problem with the idea of like Gabby working with Allison or Nick working with Alec. Angelina feels a little dead in the water but there's theoretically time for that to change since she's obviously a proactive player. But Mike, Alec, Allison, and Kara all seem to have enough social skills and game smarts to theoretically pull this out if things break right and they can make the right moves. They basically have to survive the Goliath death (assuming the Davids finishes it off) and get to the point (or push it) where the Davids turn on each other. Not to say the jury will absolutely vote on tribal lines. But we've seen that they've all been pretty divided so far so I could definitely see that being an edge at the end if one of them can work their way there with a David. Except maybe Angelina.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2018 22:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 14:39 |
|
|
I think it was on RHAP but the Goliaths are going to have a real hard time overcoming the theme if they get to the end with any half-decent David.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2018 22:19
|
|