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Fair enough. My ideals are my ideals and an infographic probably isn't going to convert me, but I see the point. I agree with censoring people advocating for violence, segregation, etc. but I don't agree with censoring people with hosed up views. I have no support in my body and it makes my blood boil whenever I hear poo poo like Bill Maher but it's just the way I am that I think everyone deserves a voice, until they begin advocating for genuine crime.
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Nov 24, 2018 03:27
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Archyduchess posted:If this isn't disingenuous, it's like, Kaspar Houser levels of oblivious to the world of things and events. Now I'm interested. Can you explain to me how an individual rear end in a top hat saying something edgy is killing someone and putting multiple people in harms way?
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Nov 24, 2018 03:28
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CynicalThundercunt posted:Sorry for believing that every single person on this planet deserves to be able to speak their mind, regardless of their ideals, unless it's truly harmful CynicalThundercunt posted:saying "yeah man gently caress the blacks amiright" isn't necessarily* killing anyone. like two ships passing in the night
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Nov 24, 2018 03:28
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CynicalThundercunt posted:Now I'm interested. Can you explain to me how an individual rear end in a top hat saying something edgy is killing someone and putting multiple people in harms way? White supremacists radicalize each other and new recruits by being "Ironically" racist until they end up shooting their school or a local synagogue
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Nov 24, 2018 03:30
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420 Gank Mid posted:like two ships passing in the night To be fair, that second quote you have is comparing it to his anti-vaxxing beliefs (I think, I'm already losing track), it's not saying racism is a totally, 100% harmless thing.
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Nov 24, 2018 03:30
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CynicalThundercunt posted:Now I'm interested. Can you explain to me how an individual rear end in a top hat saying something edgy is killing someone and putting multiple people in harms way? Are you asking how racist speech leads to racial violence?
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Nov 24, 2018 03:31
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This feels like a Death Ray.
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Nov 24, 2018 03:33
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Archyduchess posted:Why? What's the difference? Again, I think education and change is possible for almost everyone, but why should any kind of racism be hand-waved away as inconsequential?
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Nov 24, 2018 03:33
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420 Gank Mid posted:White supremacists radicalize each other and new recruits by being "Ironically" racist until they end up shooting their school or a local synagogue I mean, I've never really taken the time to think about how ironic comments could turn into a desire to shoot up a synagogue, I can't even fathom what it would be like to be susceptible to that kind of poo poo and I'd prefer to believe that human beings can not be that loving retarded that it comes from a few dumb comments, but if that's really how it is, I'm ready to reconsider my stances completely. I'm just not sure that extreme of a jump from dumb comments is what happens, it's not like someone hears some rear end in a top hat say something edgy and goes "Yeah man I want to go to a Nazi meetup!", is it?
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Nov 24, 2018 03:35
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mallratcal posted:This feels like a Death Ray. It’s a troll and a bigot, so just like Maher. Hope he gets probated because this will go nowhere.
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Nov 24, 2018 03:36
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CynicalThundercunt posted:I mean, I've never really taken the time to think about how ironic comments could turn into a desire to shoot up a synagogue, I can't even fathom what it would be like to be susceptible to that kind of poo poo and I'd prefer to believe that human beings can not be that loving retarded that it comes from a few dumb comments, but if that's really how it is, I'm ready to reconsider my stances completely. I'm just not sure that extreme of a jump from dumb comments is what happens, it's not like someone hears some rear end in a top hat say something edgy and goes "Yeah man I want to go to a Nazi meetup!", is it? I feel like to write this you'd have to be either a complete internet virgin or you've just willingly shut your eyes closed to the horror that is online. If its the former feel free to google "weev"
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Nov 24, 2018 03:41
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420 Gank Mid posted:I feel like to write this you'd have to be either a complete internet virgin or you've just willingly shut your eyes closed to the horror that is online. Slowly starting to wish I hadn't googled it, I think it might be a bit of both of those, where I've sort of turned a blind eye my whole life because these things didn't impact me personally, but I think I'm slowly starting to realize that I'm on the wrong side and by not taking a side it makes me on their side. Jesus. Alright then.
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Nov 24, 2018 03:45
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site posted:Considering that I've seen screens of chuds saying Jews should be thrown in ovens and Twitter support says it doesn't break the rules long after hate speech was banned I'll believe it when I see it Yeah, twitter's terms of service were never the issue, it was the extremely biased, selective and lazy way those terms are enforced that's turned it into a cesspit of harassment and hate speech. Nice reg date, buddy.
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Nov 24, 2018 03:46
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Lurdiak posted:Nice reg date, buddy. Thanks, I guess new users aren't allowed to make accounts
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Nov 24, 2018 03:47
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CynicalThundercunt posted:Thanks, I guess new users aren't allowed to make accounts SA gets more reregs than new accounts, and that's probably been true for almost a decade
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Nov 24, 2018 03:48
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CynicalThundercunt posted:I mean, I've never really taken the time to think about how ironic comments could turn into a desire to shoot up a synagogue, I can't even fathom what it would be like to be susceptible to that kind of poo poo and I'd prefer to believe that human beings can not be that loving retarded that it comes from a few dumb comments, but if that's really how it is, I'm ready to reconsider my stances completely. I'm just not sure that extreme of a jump from dumb comments is what happens, it's not like someone hears some rear end in a top hat say something edgy and goes "Yeah man I want to go to a Nazi meetup!", is it? There is heaps of research on this, much of it very recent and very timely. This primer by the Southern Poverty Law Center, an organization which studies and works against violent extremism, is a good starting place if you're seriously unfamiliar with this phenomenon: https://www.splcenter.org/20180419/mcinnes-molyneux-and-4chan-investigating-pathways-alt-right The ADL is also quite active in tracking this kind of activity. Here's an interesting paper they published recently about how online misogyny (incels, MRAs, etc.) is used by people further on the right as a breeding ground for more violent extremism: https://www.adl.org/resources/reports/when-women-are-the-enemy-the-intersection-of-misogyny-and-white-supremacy The late Nicholas Goodrick-Clarke wrote some of the strongest scholarship of earlier eras of tangential discursive circles as pipelines to fascism. Black Sun: Aryan Cults, Esoteric Nazism, and the Politics of Identity is his strongest work and, incidentally, a mere $1.99 on Kindle today. Michael Barkun, a prof of political philosophy at Syracuse, did similar work starting with far right Christian identitarianism as its main focus. Culture of Conspiracy: Apocalyptic Visions in Contemporary America is as timely now as it was in 2003. Umberto Eco is frequently cited and a little glib but noone has written more lucidly about how fascism in Italy was imbricatedin the fabric of every social and cultural interaction. Other journalists and researchers working in this field include Emily Gorcenski, Mark Pitcavage, and Michael E. Hayden, among others, who frequently post rich stuff on twitter and elsewhere. This is largely stuff that's very visible in pretty mainstream news outlets-- who do you think is encouraging and indoctrinating all of the alt-right or incel shooters? Why do you think people are always talking about Gab, a dying and clunky social media platform? They're not just waking up in the morning and deciding that killing a church full of black people will solve the world's problems, they're being coached and coaxed into these beliefs, and the first step in this process is, yes, very very often irreverent and "edgy" humor. How Wonderful! fucked around with this message at 03:53 on Nov 24, 2018 |
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Nov 24, 2018 03:49
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420 Gank Mid posted:SA gets more reregs than new accounts, and that's probably been true for almost a decade yeah, I guess it's fair to assume that it's a rereg, but I'm sure just by the way I post it's relatively easy to tell I'm not exactly "experienced" with this site, I just sort of lurked for a little bit recently and said gently caress it might as well make an account and this is my first time actually actively participating within a thread. Archyduchess posted:There is heaps of research on this, much of it very recent and very timely. This primer by the Southern Poverty Law Center, an organization which studies and works against violent extremism, is a good starting place if you're seriously unfamiliar with this phenomenon: https://www.splcenter.org/20180419/mcinnes-molyneux-and-4chan-investigating-pathways-alt-right I've gotta do some reading then, I'm open to reading and getting a new perspective. Also, excuse me for exposing the absolutely massive rock I live under, but I've gotta go look up what Gab even is. I always thought the incel shooters were just the depressed virgins who found incels.me/incel subreddits/elliot rodger, not coaxed through seemingly pointless humour, and same concept with the alt-right terrorists, I always just thought most of them were indoctrinated by hard rhetoric, not the sort of stuff you hear people chuckling about. Fair enough, not a bad start on this site either way, I mean yeah it's bad as in how I must seem as a person but hey if the first thing I do participating in a thread in the *comic books* subforum is have my whole worldview flipped on it's head and end up reading up on a lot of interesting information, I'm happy with it, especially if I end up growing as a person in the long run because of it EDIT: Just looked up what Gab is. Jesus. I think that just made me realize the reality of a world where my ideals are law, because it advertises itself as what seems like it would be a loving heaven of free speech and the reality is it's a bunch of racists. Holy poo poo. I'm gonna go make myself some dinner and rethink my life. CynicalThundercunt fucked around with this message at 04:04 on Nov 24, 2018 |
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Nov 24, 2018 03:55
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CynicalThundercunt posted:Now I'm interested. Can you explain to me how an individual rear end in a top hat saying something edgy is killing someone and putting multiple people in harms way? Hate speech IS violence you ignorant poo poo. Edit: ahh, I see now you were just an idealist. Soonmot fucked around with this message at 04:17 on Nov 24, 2018 |
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Nov 24, 2018 04:12
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Four days from account creation to being kicked out of an entire subforum probably isn't a new SA record but it's certainly something.
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Nov 24, 2018 04:15
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I feel like ideologies like "Let the marketplace of ideas exist unrestricted" is ignoring basically the entire purpose, history and effectiveness of propaganda and advertising. Humans have become very good at marketing lies and while information becoming more accessible has changed this in some positive ways, it has also made harmful ideals easier to propagate. A free marketplace of ideas would only be feasible in an environment where everyone was acting in good faith and that is not, has never been, and will never be the case.
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Nov 24, 2018 04:16
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Viridiant posted:I feel like ideologies like "Let the marketplace of ideas exist unrestricted" is ignoring basically the entire purpose, history and effectiveness of propaganda and advertising. Humans have become very good at marketing lies and while information becoming more accessible has changed this in some positive ways, it has also made harmful ideals easier to propagate. It's not even a truly free and unrestricted marketplace as site pointed out earlier. Twitter has happily banned people for telling Nazis to gently caress off while actual Nazis are free to use their platform. I mean poo poo, to bring this back around to comics look at how groups like comicsgate are able to act like complete shitheads for basically ever without repercussion.
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Nov 24, 2018 04:20
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Kai Tave posted:Four days from account creation to being kicked out of an entire subforum probably isn't a new SA record but it's certainly something. yeah it's definitely something that someone created a smurf account to troll / harass people in this thread
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Nov 24, 2018 04:21
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I for one definitely believe the excuse of "I am totally for real a new person and lurked this thread for days yet somehow did not actually read any of it but did you know bigots should be able to speak their mind with impunity. I am arguing in good faith btw"
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Nov 24, 2018 05:00
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CynicalThundercunt posted:yeah, I guess it's fair to assume that it's a rereg, but I'm sure just by the way I post it's relatively easy to tell I'm not exactly "experienced" with this site, I just sort of lurked for a little bit recently and said gently caress it might as well make an account and this is my first time actually actively participating within a thread. Haha very funny. You reged a week ago and already you're making GBS threads up the thread like a pro. Who's taking bets on who this guy really is? Maybe Dare? Jon Pop?
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Nov 24, 2018 05:56
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Gynovore posted:Haha very funny. You reged a week ago and already you're making GBS threads up the thread like a pro. It's definitely Death Ray.
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Nov 24, 2018 07:01
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Genuinely surprised somebody with the username "Cynical Thundercunt" didn't have much to offer. Win some, lose some, I guess. P.S. I'm aware I'm one to talk, but mine actually means The Large Chicken.
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Nov 24, 2018 07:02
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Lurdiak posted:It's definitely Death Ray. Yeah probably. ...but maybe Death Ray is really Dare???
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Nov 24, 2018 07:14
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Remember that time Fragmaster was admin and unbanned Keep It Real?
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Nov 24, 2018 07:19
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Who is Dare and if that was a Death Ray chessmaster scheme what on earth was the point. I don't mind explaining the same thing to people ad nauseum, even if I suspect I'm rising to somebody's bait, because whatever, I'm used to it, but on his end, like, he wasn't even stirring the pot in a provocative way, he was just doing the same dance steps we've all surely seen a thousand times across the internet. Like, why bother.
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Nov 24, 2018 07:19
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Archyduchess posted:Who is Dare and if that was a Death Ray chessmaster scheme what on earth was the point. I don't mind explaining the same thing to people ad nauseum, even if I suspect I'm rising to somebody's bait, because whatever, I'm used to it, but on his end, like, he wasn't even stirring the pot in a provocative way, he was just doing the same dance steps we've all surely seen a thousand times across the internet. Like, why bother. I mean I'd rather spend the ten bucks on a burrito and something to drink but maybe they don't have a good burrito joint nearby.
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Nov 24, 2018 07:38
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I could honestly believe it was just somebody being idealistic. I could, I don't know if I do believe it, but I could. Like, I was in that same position maybe a handful of years ago. Before really digging into what the gently caress's going on in the world, and seeing what "FREE MARKETPLACE OF IDEAS" really hashes out to be, I would have probably sounded just like that. There's a lot of people with their head in the sand, expecting the best behavior from humanity and not paying a lot of attention to what people actually do when they get a megaphone. It took a long rear end time for me to get over the indoctrination. The absolute necessity, the sheer power, the inarguable right to free speech was drilled into my head my entire life. That's decades, DECADES of nobody warning me that "hey, free speech could be used to recruit actual nazis on a variety of easily accessible websites." Free speech was this magical quality, an intangible light side of the force that no one was to doubt and that other countries coveted. It can take a hell of a wake up call to shake someone out of that cult bullshit. Again, I wouldn't place any bets about anyone bursting into this thread, but it wouldn't shock me if someone really was just that oblivious.
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Nov 24, 2018 07:53
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Free speech means, and has always meant, that the government can’t restrict your right to speech. And even then the line is drawn if that speech incites violence against others, intentionally or not. It does not mean, nor has it ever meant, that anyone else whatsoever is required to tolerate or give a platform for anything you say. It’s a really simple concept that people like to make really difficult.
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Nov 24, 2018 09:34
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site posted:Considering that I've seen screens of chuds saying Jews should be thrown in ovens and Twitter support says it doesn't break the rules long after hate speech was banned I'll believe it when I see it My anticipation of what will happen: "Hi, I'm Madeleine and" "Account banned for misgendering, you are actually a man." E: in case I'm not clear, Twitter is a loving cesspit and I am not condoning the above chain of events.
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Nov 24, 2018 11:12
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Lunatic Sledge posted:Like, I was in that same position maybe a handful of years ago. Before really digging into what the gently caress's going on in the world, and seeing what "FREE MARKETPLACE OF IDEAS" really hashes out to be, I would have probably sounded just like that. There's a lot of people with their head in the sand, expecting the best behavior from humanity and not paying a lot of attention to what people actually do when they get a megaphone.  Were you pulled out by others, or was it an accumulating dissonance that inevitably collapsed on itself?
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Nov 24, 2018 11:31
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I can believe that people are that idealistic (or naive) but someone being a longtime SA lurker who drops ten bucks in 2018 to lead off their posting career with Hot Takes 101 doesn't really get the benefit of the doubt imo, like Lunatic Sledge said. I mean hell, this sort of thing is a trajectory that probably everyone in this thread has more or less undergone to some degree at some point in their lives, but these days you have to be a lot more willfully obtuse or just an outright rear end in a top hat to still be clinging to this sort of "everyone's opinion is equally valid and deserving of equal respect" glurge.
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Nov 24, 2018 11:50
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I have a more cynical take, the people who usually do the all or none approach to free speech are generally centralists who pride themselves on being not black and white. Weirdly on this issue there is no nuance but slippery slopes as far as the eye can see.
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Nov 24, 2018 19:20
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Fish Noise posted:
A little of both, actually. As this last presidential election spiraled into madness, I did more digging into how the hell we got here. I was one of those centrist assholes--I was originally planning not to vote at all. Democrats and Republicans were both crazy, right? No, gently caress that. The more I read, the more I realized that context changes everything, and the broad brush of "well both sides have extremists" was loving ridiculous, when one side was fighting for survival and the other was fighting to kill them. Nobody called me out specifically, but a lot of rants, articles, and posts I read here on SA basically called me out, and I had to come to terms with the fact that this hmmbothsides bullshit hinged on ignorance, cowardice, or actual malevolence, and I wasn't ignorant anymore. I live in Oklahoma, so if not for the magic of the internet I would still be in that headspace of "well everyone's opinion is valid both sides can be good or bad uwu," because to me, for a long time, THAT was smarter and braver and cooler than the majority of my town and the entirety of my family, who are hardline gun nut send tha missionaries Trump is the most mistreated president capital R Republicans. Like, aside from wanting weed to be legalized, my mom is every backwoods ill informed conservative stereotype imaginable, down to speeches about how there's black people and then there's (drops an incredibly casual N bomb). This last presidential election really highlighted for me that, no, refusing to vote and claiming I don't have a party is not a good response. I wish one side was better, but the other side is full blown straight up unapologetic god drat evil and if I'm not putting in even the slightest effort to say something about it then gently caress me. I voted Bernie in the primaries, then Hillary in the real deal. I have a lot more arguments with people now, but I wouldn't be able to look at myself in the mirror if I didn't. The more this poo poo spreads through the video game communities, the comic book industry, the comments section of pretty much any website, every corner of social media, the harder it becomes to plug your ears and hide. I've had to run neo-nazis off smaller forums. I've had to ban assholes with kekistani flags from discords. I've had arguments about whether or not Maynard James Keenan "has gone political." I broke out of my dickweed middle of the fence mindset well before the primaries, but even if I hadn't, this all would have caught up to me eventually. It's getting impossible not to ignore, and it's becoming much, much more apparent that if you're not picking a side then you've already picked a side. Sorry for the rant, I might still be grinding my teeth from Thanksgiving.
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Nov 24, 2018 20:17
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CharlestheHammer posted:I have a more cynical take, the people who usually do the all or none approach to free speech are generally centralists who pride themselves on being not black and white. Weirdly on this issue there is no nuance but slippery slopes as far as the eye can see. They certainly aren't ever black, that's for sure. Lunatic Sledge posted:Conservative Upbringings Anonymous story Welcome fellow traveler.
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Nov 24, 2018 20:44
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Ah, I have found my people! Conservative upbringing is a bitch to break out of, isn't it?
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Nov 24, 2018 23:57
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So it looks like gators are really actually trying the animegate thing now https://twitter.com/Esharp777/status/1066487930380636160 https://twitter.com/BadAnimeTweets/status/1066394538711937026
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Nov 25, 2018 19:18
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