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Jedi Knight Luigi posted:He asked for it from FAU.
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Nov 23, 2018 17:21
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FAU said they can't do 40 day/40 night probations, so PM after 40 days and he'll undo the probation.
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Nov 23, 2018 17:23
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NikkolasKing posted:Even if you could wave a wand and make most every human being on Earth happy, could we enjoy the happiness knowing that others are still in misery? I don't think that opposition to all suffering means that suffering is more powerful than happiness. What it means is that you can conceive, at least dimly, of a perfect future -- an ideal that makes no exceptions. It means you can imagine the end of all suffering. Our distance from that ideal might be painful, but it's also a call to advance towards it. I also think that this illustrates something about the communal nature of morality. It makes no sense for one person, acting alone, to feel guilty that they can't help everyone; being consumed by that thought isn't healthy. But that's thinking about it in very individualistic terms. I think that we feel the pangs of a collective conscience. (Just in an abstract sense, I'm not talking about a hive mind or some Jungian nonsense or anything.) And the responsibility that conscience demands is a subtle one -- you have to keep in mind that you don't control the actions of other people, but you do influence them, and you do provide a mirror through which they see themselves. Which is to say: you can have a moral duty to save everyone, without having a moral duty to save everyone yourself. You have a share of a collective project, which includes collaboration, organization, and picking up slack. It's not enough just to help your share of people and then wash your hands of it, but what's demanded of you then isn't just "more help." It's that you participate in our progress towards a society that helps everyone.
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Nov 23, 2018 17:57
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HEY GUNS posted:everyone in this thread is from the upper midwest Or are trying desperately to move there
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Nov 23, 2018 18:17
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happyphage posted:Or are trying desperately to move there I was gonna make a joke along the lines of who would want to come to Siberia with family restaurants, but honestly it is pretty nice up here.
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Nov 23, 2018 18:21
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New England Roman Catholic checking in. (Though I was born in the Southeast, and apparently baptized Methodist.)
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Nov 23, 2018 18:40
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HEY GUNS posted:everyone in this thread is from the upper midwest Yeah Senju and my's folks are from Kentucky and we still live in the south, much to her chagrin.
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Nov 23, 2018 18:42
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i''m not from the midwest but my mother's from Michigan and i was familiar with hotdish long before I learned what it was called
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Nov 23, 2018 18:44
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Jedi Knight Luigi posted:I was gonna make a joke along the lines of who would want to come to Siberia with family restaurants, but honestly it is pretty nice up here. Plan is to move in with the boyfriend but yeah I’ve been there a few times and I really like it there I don’t even mind the cold so much
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Nov 23, 2018 18:45
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:I don't think that opposition to all suffering means that suffering is more powerful than happiness. What it means is that you can conceive, at least dimly, of a perfect future -- an ideal that makes no exceptions. It means you can imagine the end of all suffering. Our distance from that ideal might be painful, but it's also a call to advance towards it. I appreciate the reply, thank you. Same for earlier responses, too. Guess a big problem is that I just don't really think a better, perfect society is possible. I think a lot of people abandoned the idea of utopia after utopias justified hundreds of millions of people dying last century. Objectively things are getting better but, as I was trying to say earlier, objectivity flies out the window in the face of feelings and empathy. I dunno, this might just be something I gotta work through. It's one reason I like learning about stuff. Reading and gaining knowledge has always been a great way to get my head on straight. That and music. Music really is the best cure. Might sound shallow but a good song really makes it all seem worthwhile.
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Nov 23, 2018 18:56
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NikkolasKing posted:Guess a big problem is that I just don't really think a better, perfect society is possible. I think a lot of people abandoned the idea of utopia after utopias justified hundreds of millions of people dying last century. Objectively things are getting better but, as I was trying to say earlier, objectivity flies out the window in the face of feelings and empathy. Well, I mean, to put it in Christian terms it's not possible for humans to live a life without sin, either. I'm just suggesting that a lot of the dynamics and moral/theological consequences of that idea can be extended to societies as well. NikkolasKing posted:I dunno, this might just be something I gotta work through. It's one reason I like learning about stuff. Reading and gaining knowledge has always been a great way to get my head on straight. That and music. Music really is the best cure. Might sound shallow but a good song really makes it all seem worthwhile. I don't think this is shallow at all. Suffering is best understood as an obstacle; it only makes sense to talk about obstacles in reference to the thing they're preventing or blocking. If suffering did disappear overnight, we'd have to think about what "good" means in that context, now that "doing no harm" and "alleviating harm" were out of the way, and I think it would mostly involve creation and enjoying the creations of others.
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Nov 23, 2018 19:15
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ThePopeOfFun posted:As always, I think it really depends where you are. I’ve heard pastors not so subtly imply Catholicism will put you in hell, because you know, works. Most people I know now are interested in Ecumenicism. Absolutely. I was raised Catholic and am pretty lapsed as can be. I never ran across any kind of anti-Catholic prejudice at all beyond the kind of ephemeral cultural stuff about how people really didn't like the Irish a hundred years ago and yeah, guys, we don't worship the Pope. My wife's family are all Southern Baptists. Devout but not in the "push it on you" way for the most part. My wife has about the same relationship with her church as I do with mine. When I was dating her I played the Catholic card generally to side step the religion stuff and signal that I had no problem bowing my head when they said a prayer at dinner but I also wasn't going to be super into getting involved with their church. When we got married it was also a nice dodge to have a low key, secular wedding. One of my wife's grandmothers always acts super weird around me. Usually she's nice, but kind of nice at me, and once in a while she slips up and acts kind of lovely. Years ago I found out it's because I'm Catholic. Apparently she prays for me and hopes that I'll "find Jesus, because otherwise he's a nice boy." . . . pretty sure my faith found Jesus before yours did Grandma. I mean, if we're going to get technical my Grandma probably has a better claim on being mad that I married into a bunch of heretics. 
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Nov 23, 2018 20:08
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when i converted to eastern orthodoxy my ex's mom said "at least it isn't catholicism any more" and that was the day i realized that my ex's mom, who hung out with my very catholic mom--they were friends--had been anti catholic the whole time! i never felt really at ease around her after that, and i never told my mother
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Nov 23, 2018 20:15
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happyphage posted:Or are trying desperately to move there Actual Danish person here, and more than once folks in the religionthread have asked me to ravish them off to Denmark, just saying
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Nov 23, 2018 22:05
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Tias posted:Actual Danish person here, and more than once folks in the religionthread have asked me to ravish them off to Denmark, just saying I'm English, single, and twinky. please please take me away from this self-destructing hellhole to the comforting bosom of the European Union
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Nov 23, 2018 22:28
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Are you non-white? Because I have some bad news about the developments in the scandinavian liberal welfare states in the last ten years if so 
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Nov 23, 2018 22:50
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If you have to get out of the country to live or to have any chance at happiness, please do. If you don't, please stay and fight, we need all the help we can get.
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Nov 23, 2018 23:45
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Liquid Communism posted:I'm surprised, from the same sort of background, I ended up being extremely leery of Catholics. The worst I ever got out of a mainline Protestant was aggressively friendly handshakes and a surfeit of hot dish. I work in a heavily Calvinist/ Christian Reform county.
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Nov 24, 2018 00:15
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sponges posted:I work in a heavily Calvinist/ Christian Reform county. Wild guess: the Netherlands or a former Dutch colony? Scotland, the Netherlands, and parts of Switzerland were the main parts of Europe that went (and remained) heavily Calvinist, and of course the Dutch exported it to a lot of their colonies.
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Nov 24, 2018 00:54
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Pellisworth posted:Wild guess: the Netherlands or a former Dutch colony? Not a colony but it was settled by Dutch immigrants.
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Nov 24, 2018 01:06
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sponges posted:Not a colony but it was settled by Dutch immigrants. I misread your post as "country," not "county." If you're in the US I can commiserate a bit; I went to college with some hardcore Calvinist types from a heavily Dutch Reformed part of northern Iowa and they were kind of dicks to everyone, other Protestants included. We went to Germany on a two-week class on the history of the Reformation through modern German democracy which included visiting the church in Wittenberg where Martin Luther famously nailed his theses and is now buried. At a bar later that night one of the Calvinist guys was joking with a couple of the Catholics about how they could all get behind going back to the church, digging up Luther's bones, and pissing on them, right guys? The Catholics were kinda like  considering we had just visited a Nazi death camp the day prior. That same guy also shaved my eyebrows off when I was asleep in the hostel our first night there, so my opinion of him might be slightly biased.
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Nov 24, 2018 01:24
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Pellisworth posted:I misread your post as "country," not "county." If you're in the US I can commiserate a bit; I went to college with some hardcore Calvinist types from a heavily Dutch Reformed part of northern Iowa and they were kind of dicks to everyone, other Protestants included. I work in Sioux County Iowa. Did you go to college at Northwestern?
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Nov 24, 2018 01:35
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sponges posted:I work in Sioux County Iowa. Did you go to college at Northwestern? Augustana College in Sioux Falls, SD. It's an ELCA Lutheran school but draws a lot of students of all faiths from the region. I'm assuming you've been to Sioux Falls, it's probably the closest good-size city and imo quite a nice small city.
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Nov 24, 2018 02:02
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NikkolasKing posted:Religion thread, I come seeking an answer to something that's been on my mind off and on over the years but I really want to ask somebody this who actually has a working knowledge of theology, philosophy, all that good stuff I try to study but y dumb brain and attention span keeps me from learning properly. I appreciate these heartfelt words. For me, some of the wisest and most universal things I've heard or read about suffering have come from Viktor Frankl, the Jewish psychiatrist and holocaust survivor, and Thich Nhat Hanh, the Vietnamese Buddhist monk. I thinks it's helpful to consult the contemplatives and the survivors of great suffering. But suffering demands we face it in more than just as an intellectual exercise oriented towards hypotheticals. Compassion is about how we live. We practice it in the world, we're challenged by it, we reflect and then hopefully improve our practice. We know there are ways we can make things worse. It's all in the struggle. It may be helpful to consider other perspectives, to look at suffering not as an obstacle or as something alien and threatening to happiness. Suffering teaches us things about the nature of reality. From non-life comes life, and from life comes pain. The practice is to look at that pain, our own and other beings', and to treat it tenderly and skillfully. We try to transform the pain and the conditions that cause pain into something more conducive to happiness. And we may even be realistic but nuanced with our expectation. In your hypothetical situation, we can say that we should always try to feed all ten so that we may fulfill our potential of feeding nine. Because if we start by only assuming that we cannot feed all ten, then we end up feeding even fewer than nine. The wish to help others suffer less is a great and infinite value, and because of that infinitude, it can make us restless and depressed. It's helpful to nurture that wish into effective practice, and it's helpful to combine it with an equally infinite appreciation for empathetic joy. We have to identify not just the end of the suffering of nine starving people but also the joy of their new well-being. If the conditions are right, nine well-fed people are nine more people who can each go on to feed nine others. With all that said, I'm also not sure about humanity's odds. I can see how the body of Christ and the universal transformation of suffering may be much larger than what happens only on this wet rock and the things that grow on it. It's a big cosmos that will be around for a long time relative to our lifespans. And sometimes humanity's response to suffering is underwhelming and discouraging. But, somehow, seeing the struggle as larger than a human problem comforts and encourages me. There's less of an urge for me to dump blame or to be melodramatic about suffering. I've not found a better way to live than to foster responsibility, to deepen my understanding and to manifest compassion.
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Nov 24, 2018 02:02
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Pellisworth posted:I misread your post as "country," not "county." If you're in the US I can commiserate a bit; I went to college with some hardcore Calvinist types from a heavily Dutch Reformed part of northern Iowa and they were kind of dicks to everyone, other Protestants included. I took my intro level college religion class from a Dutch Reformed minister, and he was great (although, to be fair, somebody who's really anti-Catholic probably isn't going to become an adjunct professor at a Catholic college). It was fun to watch him get pissed off at the idea of double predestination, though. Man hated double predestination.
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Nov 24, 2018 02:24
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Caufman posted:I appreciate these heartfelt words. For me, some of the wisest and most universal things I've heard or read about suffering have come from Viktor Frankl, the Jewish psychiatrist and holocaust survivor, and Thich Nhat Hanh, the Vietnamese Buddhist monk. I thinks it's helpful to consult the contemplatives and the survivors of great suffering. But suffering demands we face it in more than just as an intellectual exercise oriented towards hypotheticals. Compassion is about how we live. We practice it in the world, we're challenged by it, we reflect and then hopefully improve our practice. We know there are ways we can make things worse. It's all in the struggle. Thank you for this great reply. I'm actually somewhat familiar with both Frankl and Hanh, if only superficially. Most recently I was in a bit of a Buddhist phase because of my feeling that life was suffering (although dukkha isn't exactly suffering, I know) and I looked up some of Hanh's books on Audible. He has a lot of them up there which is good for me and my eyesight problems. The one on Fear was the one that attracted me because I've long known my most primal, fundamental attribute is fear. I'm very much afraid of loneliness, meaninglessness... i think about them a lot and that drive is why I have restlessly looked for some consolation in religion, politics and philosophy. Speaking of meaninglessness, that is how I found Frankl. I was interested in Schopenhauer and Nietzsche because they go great with being pessimistic. Schopenhauer had his Will-to-Live, a blind striving to just continue your existence. Nietzsche had his Will to Power, which is more complicated than I understand but doesn't sound like it fits in my view. But then Wikipedia mentioned early 20th Century psychologists who all had their ideas based on philosophy. Freud had his will to pleasure - pleasure is the most fundamental drive and reason for doing things - some other psychologist took Nietzsche's Will to Power and finally there was Frankl's the Will to Meaning https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfUI7t0qmIs Which makes sense to me. Pleasure and Power are just ways to find meaning in our lives. Same for Love or even Hate. Even my fear of being alone is because I find meaning in my life in being with someone. Whenever I start falling into a pit of cynicism or even nihilism I usually bounce back because I just don't want to believe everything is meaningless and bad. I enjoy too many things about the world and, probably more importantly, I see other people enjoying things, too. That can't be pointless. Reading posts like yours also helps.
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Nov 24, 2018 19:49
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Hi! I have two questions for the thread, one serious and one less so: Serious one question first: is it considered rude, blasphemous, or otherwise not okay for someone unbaptized and not necessarily a believer to pray? I'm currently trying to figure out what my religious beliefs actually are but don't want to offend anyone or accidentally insult God by doing so. (I also have horrible anxiety which probably explains this post.) Also I have a rosary that's missing a bead what should I do with it? (I also have one that has all its beads) I figured just throwing it away would not be okay, but should I take it to a church to have the priest deal with it or what? Less serious question: Who wants to hear the Absolute Worst version of the prosperity "gospel" I have ever had the misfortune of encountering?
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Nov 24, 2018 21:57
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you can and should pray, everyone should! when you come to the part of the rosary with the missing bead, just remember that there's a missing bead there, it's no big deal. Medieval rosaries didn't have standard numbers of beads, even. sure, tell us the terrible poo poo
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Nov 24, 2018 22:05
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Rainbow Pharaoh posted:Less serious question: Who wants to hear the Absolute Worst version of the prosperity "gospel" I have ever had the misfortune of encountering? I am immediately intrigued.
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Nov 24, 2018 22:06
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Rainbow Pharaoh posted:Also I have a rosary that's missing a bead what should I do with it? (I also have one that has all its beads) I figured just throwing it away would not be okay, but should I take it to a church to have the priest deal with it or what? If you want the Protestant version, it's completely up to you. God understands your intentions and where you're coming from, no matter what you may or may not have at hand. https://i.imgur.com/zQAERQ5.mp4
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Nov 24, 2018 22:21
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Night10194 posted:I am immediately intrigued. It was some post on reddit a friend sent me a link to after I complained about prosperity gospel bullshit the other day because they hate me apparently. The thesis was that the US's military power was a reward from God for how much the US gives in foreign aid. (Ignoring that percentage-wise we're pretty stingy and that most of that power comes from spending money on that instead of on foreign aid and social programs.) I needed to complain about this to someone and from lurking on this thread I figured you guys would get a kick/aneurysm from it. Rainbow Pharaoh fucked around with this message at 22:39 on Nov 24, 2018 |
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Nov 24, 2018 22:28
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Rainbow Pharaoh posted:It was some post on reddit a friend sent me a link to after I complained about prosperity gospel bullshit the other day because they hate me apparently. Their thesis was that the US's military power was a reward from God for how much the US gives in foreign aid. (Ignoring that percentage-wise we're pretty stingy and that most of that power comes from spending money on that instead of on foreign aid and social programs.) I needed to complain about this to someone and from lurking on this thread I figured you guys would get a kick/aneurysm from it. Good grief. Also I don't think you need to worry about accidentally insulting God. God knows what your intentions are. It's okay, you know? That's the whole point, kinda. It's okay.
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Nov 24, 2018 22:33
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Job tells God that He’s unjust, unfair, this is all horrible, etc. Job demands God to personally answer Job’s questions. At the end of the book, God says Job was right. God wants us to voice our struggles and griefs God. God made heaven and earth, universe. The universe includes all bodily functions, fluids, sexuality, blood, language, jokes. He searches and knows our souls, each dark corner. Jesus pulled from fisherman to form his inner circle. No way those guys didn’t cuss like sailors. Wasn’t offended. Jesus did far more offending and rule breaking. Pray away and hard. Those who seek find.
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Nov 24, 2018 23:10
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Hi, so most people have probably heard about the Christian Evangelist who recently went to the North Sentinel island to convert the isolated tribe there and was killed as he attempted to approach them. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/22/john-allen-chau-man-killed-by-tribe-north-sentinel-island-declare-jesus My question is not so much about the ethics of his actions - though clearly there is a lot to unpack here - or the response of the Sintenelese, but with all this talk about him being a missionary and/or Christian martyr, I was wondering if there actually are any established procedures and regulations for proselytizing and missionary work? I imagine it would be different from church to church, but can any random believer claim to be a missionary - which seem to be the case in this incident - or does it have an official/legal status?
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Nov 24, 2018 23:22
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B-person posted:Hi, so most people have probably heard about the Christian Evangelist who recently went to the North Sentinel island to convert the isolated tribe there and was killed as he attempted to approach them. It's going to vary massively, but afaik even the least-structured independent Evangelical type churches generally have some degree of guidance or control over their missionaries, in no small part because usually missionaries are sponsored financially by congregations. There aren't any rules that span all of Christianity, no. I guess it also depends on how you define "missionary." Is any Christian professing their faith and sharing the Good News a missionary? When HEY GUNS (gently) encourages other posters to convert to Orthodoxy, is he acting as a missionary? Or is a missionary a full-time job someone assumes? edit: frankly I think the guy in the article is kind of a dumbass. It's, uh, pretty optimistic to row up to an island of uncontacted people whose language is totally unknown and who have a history of shooting visitors full of arrows and yell "Jesus loves you!" I'm no expert on proselytization but I'd think learning some language and culture first would be helpful. Also, the Sentinelese have made it pretty clear in the past they don't want outsiders coming to their island, and the government of India declared it legally off limits. I dunno I just think missionaries should respect the law and expressed wishes of the people they want to witness to. Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 00:07 on Nov 25, 2018 |
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Nov 24, 2018 23:56
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One thing I would point out is that as far as the government of India is concerned - the government that has internationally recognized jurisdiction over the islands - he was trespassing and acting illegally. They have a quarantine on those islands. You can quibble about their reasons for it but it’s the law of the land. Now, how this factors into his religious mission is up to debate. I suspect the average opinion on this is going to be different in 2018 and 1518, for example.
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Nov 25, 2018 00:03
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B-person posted:but with all this talk about him being a missionary and/or Christian martyr Are people suggesting that? If so, that is insane. I mean, he might have had good intentions, but he would literally have killed the islanders through disease if he'd succeeded.
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Nov 25, 2018 00:20
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B-person posted:Hi, so most people have probably heard about the Christian Evangelist who recently went to the North Sentinel island to convert the isolated tribe there and was killed as he attempted to approach them. the current Orthodox way is to convert people by being really good near them and hoping they notice. i heard good things about a guy who was doing that in mongolia. there was also Daniel Sysoev, who preached to the Tatars and handed out leaflets and such. He was martyred for it. (Everything I've heard about him seems ok) edit: i'm proud that the orthodox missionaries to alaska didn't genocide anyone, but that's what i heard, i don't know if it's accurate HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Nov 25, 2018 |
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Nov 25, 2018 00:21
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Mr Enderby posted:Are people suggesting that? If so, that is insane. I mean, he might have had good intentions, but he would literally have killed the islanders through disease if he'd succeeded. I guess it also depends on how you define "martyr." My understanding is that in a Christian context it means someone who is persecuted (often killed) for their Christian faith. This dude was killed because the Sentinelese don't want visitors, not because he was Christian. God rest his soul. He seems to have had good, if misguided, intentions. HEY GUNS posted:the current Orthodox way is to convert people by being really good near them and hoping they notice. This is how I and I think many mainline Protestants feel about it. We're uncomfortable being pushy or aggressively trying to convert anyone. Let your light shine and all that.
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Nov 25, 2018 00:32
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if spamming BECOME ORTHODOX on reddit were enough to get me into heaven i'm stoked
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Nov 25, 2018 00:34
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