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The magic in the book is kind of all wankery because when sympathy won't do Kvothe just names things and that overwrites any rules or limits we previously had. A lot of the way this is written also gives Rothfuss the ability to hand-wave the contradictions later if he wants. In the bandit battle Kvothe calls lightning. That doesn't really jive with the sympathy rules. But you can always go, actually he named the lightning, which just means it works. Or something else intervened and we just don't know it yet (the amyr, whatever). Essentially, Rothfuss is nowhere near as obsessive about his magic rules as Sanderson, so he's fine shrugging and just having stuff do what he needs it to when he needs it to, which, in the abstract is something I can get behind. Like, I don't give a poo poo if you need to cast a 24 MP spell, but you only have 22 MP left. That's not interesting, but if you waste a lot of time establishing rules and then you disregard them, that feels cheap. I think it's somewhat emblematic of the Kvothe books in general that Rothfuss is a lazy writer who wants to do things that he associates with the genre but does a half-assed job - lovely conlangs to pay homage to Tolkien but he isn't a linguist so it's letter salad; detailed magic system, but he mainly just wants the cool stuff so rules become malleable; robust world building, but a general lack of imagination so everything is just "not-Europe".
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Nov 23, 2018 20:54
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Not Europe, upside down Europe, reverse Europe, and rotated Europe have been a staple of fantasy for a hundred years now.
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Nov 23, 2018 21:13
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Benson Cunningham posted:Not Europe, upside down Europe, reverse Europe, and rotated Europe have been a staple of fantasy for a hundred years now. Dianna Wynne Jones' Tough Guide to Fantasyland has a map at the front that is literally just Europe upside down.
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Nov 23, 2018 21:47
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Benson Cunningham posted:Not Europe, upside down Europe, reverse Europe, and rotated Europe have been a staple of fantasy for a hundred years now. Oh for sure, but it's the laziest version of building a fantasy world.
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Nov 23, 2018 22:16
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I really love when Not-Europe specifically has Not-England, Not-France, and Not-Germany (plus Not-Italy if you're really lucky).
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Nov 23, 2018 22:27
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Eastern Europe is largely ignored by fantasy authors in the US. Really anything that isn't purely western or ancient Eastern culture.
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Nov 23, 2018 22:36
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Benson Cunningham posted:Eastern Europe is largely ignored by fantasy authors in the US. Really anything that isn't purely western or ancient Eastern culture. I'd guess it's because the US education system never bothers with anything post USSR. I know I didn't learn any substantive stuff about Eastern Europe until college.
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Nov 23, 2018 22:47
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You'd really think a company of Polish Winged Hussars would fit right in, but noooooo...
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Nov 23, 2018 23:31
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Geography is rarely important even if a detailed map is included. Usually I wonder why they even bothered.
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Nov 23, 2018 23:55
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Tolkien did it/world-building.
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Nov 24, 2018 00:12
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The Witcher is all the Slavic mythology you could want and needed a map for the improbably good video game adaptation. Personally I prefer maps for plots with long journeys, just like I'd prefer a sketch or floor plan to detailed multi-page descriptions of buildings with complicated but plot-relevant architecture.
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Nov 24, 2018 00:32
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BananaNutkins posted:Geography is rarely important even if a detailed map is included. Usually I wonder why they even bothered. I think it helps the writer more than the reader.
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Nov 24, 2018 02:14
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Solice Kirsk posted:He also made lightning strike the tree and used that fire as his "source of power" as I recall which, if I remember correctly, the more powerful the "source" the less the objects have to be connected. Which is how Devi basically blasts through him because she has that portable sun in her desk and he was using embers from a bar's fire or something. No the lightning tree thing was the finishing move. He shoots an arrow at the tree, sticks another arrow in the ground and then I guess uses the ground to ionise or deionise the tree or whatever?
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Nov 25, 2018 16:41
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Ah, I misremembered then. I do recall thinking the entire scene didn't make a lot of sense, but I still really liked the forest bandit trip portion of the book. It might be my favorite part of the book actually. Well, that and the two paragraphs of angry smartass tree.
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Nov 25, 2018 17:11
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Solice Kirsk posted:Ah, I misremembered then. I do recall thinking the entire scene didn't make a lot of sense, but I still really liked the forest bandit trip portion of the book. It might be my favorite part of the book actually. Well, that and the two paragraphs of angry smartass tree. That's weird I really had to power through that section and then he meets a literal fairy and things get much too silly
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Nov 25, 2018 17:14
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Evil Fluffy posted:The only upside to the tv show is that it'll almost certainly make Ambrose in to some over the top villain because if it doesn't then people are going to probably relate with him and his reaction to a self entitled poo poo like kvothe. As far as I know Ambrose won't be in the TV show. It's a prequel to the books (presumably because they realized the two books did not have a TV show worth of plot) about two bards. Though the fact that Sam Raimi is signed on makes me think it might be DoA, after the last licensed thing he signed onto. (Noir, which was going to have an absolutely dreadful live-action adaptation from Sam Raimi until it died in hell.)
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Nov 25, 2018 23:23
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Kchama posted:As far as I know Ambrose won't be in the TV show. It's a prequel to the books (presumably because they realized the two books did not have a TV show worth of plot) about two bards. Though the fact that Sam Raimi is signed on makes me think it might be DoA, after the last licensed thing he signed onto. (Noir, which was going to have an absolutely dreadful live-action adaptation from Sam Raimi until it died in hell.) Wait, adapted from the anime Noir? I mean, it wouldn't take much to make that show a live action thing, but...enh. Let's not.
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Nov 26, 2018 04:15
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I wonder how much of the precipitous quality decline of genre fiction post-90's is from the rise of obsessive nerds, the kind of ilk who write articles on wookiepedia or developed Klingon as a language, demanding that their fantasy-land physics absolutely must adhere to modern scientific rigor. Rather than accepting that they're reading a pulp power fantasy, the "world building" for which exists solely to progress a narrative arc, shrugging, and moving on to the next novel if it turns out to be poo poo. Like, goddamn, kid-me didn't sit on gamefaqs after playing FF8 going "excuuuuse me, summoning a demon by throwing a card is SO out of keeping with the future-tech setting of this world!"  It's just the most annoying form of literary critique, bitching about gotcha inconsistencies in what is inherently made up bullshit.
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Nov 26, 2018 04:38
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Rime posted:I wonder how much of the precipitous quality decline of genre fiction post-90's is from the rise of obsessive nerds, the kind of ilk who write articles on wookiepedia or developed Klingon as a language, demanding that their fantasy-land physics absolutely must adhere to modern scientific rigor. its actually declined because the increasing marginalisation of actual literature and the publishing industry becoming more and more uniform has meant that genre writers now only read older genre works, whereas back in the day some of those guys would have read books that didn't come free in a cereal box at some point even if they wrote pulp.
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Nov 26, 2018 06:26
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Dirt Road Junglist posted:Wait, adapted from the anime Noir? I mean, it wouldn't take much to make that show a live action thing, but...enh. Let's not. From the anime Noir, yes. I mean, it wouldn't, since it basically is that kind of thing just animated. Of course they were gonna change it up by adding male characters to be the actual protagonists and love interests of the titular Noir.
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Nov 26, 2018 07:35
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Benson Cunningham posted:Eastern Europe is largely ignored by fantasy authors in the US. Really anything that isn't purely western or ancient Eastern culture. I think that's one reason Kingdom Come Deliverance blew up so big. At the same time familiar and strange.
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Nov 26, 2018 18:22
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i'm fat (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 26, 2018 20:38
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A human heart posted:its actually declined because the increasing marginalisation of actual literature and the publishing industry becoming more and more uniform has meant that genre writers now only read older genre works, whereas back in the day some of those guys would have read books that didn't come free in a cereal box at some point even if they wrote pulp. It's just another form of internet bubble. This is why truly dreck fantasy authors get to be featured at the front of the fantasy section. You would think it would be possible to take all these mythological themes and make real literature, but apparently not.
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Nov 27, 2018 02:04
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I mean, allegedly Rothfus got a degree in an English department. I'm pretty sure you read literature in those. Also, lol no poo poo that he bombed out of grad school. With his work ethic he wouldn't have made it to a masters much less a PhD
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Nov 27, 2018 07:36
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Karnegal posted:I mean, allegedly Rothfus got a degree in an English department. I'm pretty sure you read literature in those. Also, lol no poo poo that he bombed out of grad school. With his work ethic he wouldn't have made it to a masters much less a PhD Did he get a BA in English or a BFA in Creative Writing? In my experience BFAs don’t know poo poo about literature. Take that with a grain of salt, as I have a BA in English, and also an MA in English because I, unlike Rothfuss, have the work ethic to finish a goddamn degree. Take that also with a grain of salt, because he wrote a book and I’m an optician.
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Nov 27, 2018 19:53
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Also it took him 7 years because he really wanted to gently caress about in a chemistry lab pretending to be an alchemist.
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Nov 27, 2018 19:59
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How many pages of Rothfuss thread would it take to equal the  of Wise Mans Fear?
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Nov 28, 2018 00:16
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Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:How many pages of Rothfuss thread would it take to equal the Roughly 100 (I checked pages 1, 10, and 20 of this thread and the average was around 4000 words per page, although there was massive variance from 3000-5000), since Wise Man's Fear was around 400,000 words per Rothfuss.
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Nov 28, 2018 04:10
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Now how many pages of Rothfuss thread would it take to equal the  of Wise Man's Fear?
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Nov 28, 2018 20:36
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Tree Dude posted:Now how many pages of Rothfuss thread would it take to equal the BOTL's OP probably has as much as Wise Man's Fear.
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Nov 28, 2018 23:09
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Doctor Faustine posted:Did he get a BA in English or a BFA in Creative Writing? In my experience BFAs don’t know poo poo about literature. The easily google-able info just says "English degree". Due to the fact that he was kicking around for 9 years and just did the thing he had the most credits for (because they were like finish and gently caress off, man) I would guess English Lit and not Creative Writing.
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Nov 29, 2018 01:15
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eXXon posted:Imagine a thousand page epic about a sumptuously feast with GRRM writing the florid descriptions of the food and drink and Steven Erikson providing the witty banter. I actually feel like a standard-length fantasy novel that is literally just about a feast, the dishes people bring, and character interaction would be a trillion times better than any epic fantasy novel you would care to name.
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Nov 29, 2018 16:22
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Hate Fibration posted:I actually feel like a standard-length fantasy novel that is literally just about a feast, the dishes people bring, and character interaction would be a trillion times better than any epic fantasy novel you would care to name. That's kinda the last third of Farmer Giles of Ham Gotta have dragon's tail for the feast!
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Nov 29, 2018 16:41
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A Feast For Crows has all those feasts thrown in "honour" of the kingsguard dude, and is entirely a load of awkward silences as the Dornish pretend they don't want to gruesomely murder him. Only good part of the whole book.
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Nov 29, 2018 17:58
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Hate Fibration posted:I actually feel like a standard-length fantasy novel that is literally just about a feast, the dishes people bring, and character interaction would be a trillion times better than any epic fantasy novel you would care to name. I can't wait to tell you about a writer named Brian Jaques. You're in for a treat.
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Nov 29, 2018 18:34
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Benson Cunningham posted:I can't wait to tell you about a writer named Brian Jaques. You're in for a treat. well, several dozen painstakingly enumerated treats
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Nov 29, 2018 21:53
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Karnegal posted:I mean, allegedly Rothfus got a degree in an English department. I'm pretty sure you read literature in those. Also, lol no poo poo that he bombed out of grad school. With his work ethic he wouldn't have made it to a masters much less a PhD Dropping out of grad school is one of the smartest things a person can do tbh.
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Nov 30, 2018 01:36
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porfiria posted:Dropping out of grad school is one of the smartest things a person can do tbh. Yes and no. Leaving academia is smart, but most of the people I know who got PhDs and left went straight into 6 figure jobs in fields where their BAs would be aspirational for 40k a year. Masters programs have always been for suckers/teachers
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Nov 30, 2018 02:01
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Both of those separate categories.
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Nov 30, 2018 02:22
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Karnegal posted:Yes and no. Leaving academia is smart, but most of the people I know who got PhDs and left went straight into 6 figure jobs in fields where their BAs would be aspirational for 40k a year. Masters programs have always been for suckers/teachers Yeah, I am literally tailoring my PhD to work in a specific industry and the economic whiplash I am going to experience will be loving dizzying. Also, the other use of a Master's is to shore up a weak undergrad for PhD applications.
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Nov 30, 2018 14:21
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