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Ate My Balls Redux posted:I think the timing of the accusations was incredibly suspect, as well as the political affiliations of said accusers.
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Nov 26, 2018 18:24
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Ms Adequate posted:You shouldn't get away with being a sexmonster just because you're 'only' a minotaur while there's a kaiju on the horizon. You're still a sexmonster. Minotaur seems too extreme, I'd say... imp? pookel posted:If you don't understand why it's more likely for victims to be willing to come forward against someone they politically oppose than against someone they support, then I don't think you understand how this whole thing works. Yeah but most media moguls of their same political affiliation don't know ahead of time that the information will be coming out.
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Nov 26, 2018 18:24
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Ate My Balls Redux posted:I think the timing of the accusations was incredibly suspect, as well as the political affiliations of said accusers. I also think "most likely accidental grab rear end" and "12 year old poor adolescent humor" don't rise to the level of "sexmonster" when we have Trump in the big chair http://time.com/5042931/al-franken-accusers/ Don't be loving gross dude.
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Nov 26, 2018 18:26
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Ate My Balls Redux posted:Minotaur seems too extreme, I'd say... imp? seriously what is your interest in defending franken, it's a bad look dude
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Nov 26, 2018 18:26
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Ate My Balls Redux posted:I think the timing of the accusations was incredibly suspect, as well as the political affiliations of said accusers. I also think "most likely accidental grab rear end" and "12 year old poor adolescent humor" don't rise to the level of "sexmonster" when we have Trump in the big chair oh, one of these takes in the wild? I was hoping they were mostly mythical, although that might be partly because I'm a Gillibrand liker and the most ardent Gillibrand haters are the people really mad about her calling out sexmonsterism
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Nov 26, 2018 18:27
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Ate My Balls Redux posted:I think the timing of the accusations was incredibly suspect, as well as the political affiliations of said accusers. I also think "most likely accidental grab rear end" and "12 year old poor adolescent humor" don't rise to the level of "sexmonster" when we have Trump in the big chair 1) There were pictures. This wasn't a he-said-she-said situation, there were pictures of Franken pretending to fondle Leeann Tweeden's boobs. Tweeden could have been Hitler reborn for all I care; her political affiliation doesn't loving matter. Even then, she accepted his apology and if it had just been her, he probably could have weathered the storm. Then women 2, 3, 4, and 5 came forward. Seriously? 2) "Sexmonster" is an incredibly inclusive term that encompasses everyone who's played grabass in the office once or twice to Trump and Cosby. Are there degrees? Yes. Does it excuse Franken's actions? No, and we would have had to endure months of completely blackout coverage of it had we not thrown him out of the caucus. 3) What the hell does this even mean? If anything, the people who were insisting Franken stay were the ones talking about Bernie supporters' purity tests.
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Nov 26, 2018 18:27
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Ms Adequate posted:Opioids, suicide, spousal abuse, alcoholism, premature deaths on a vast scale. The slow death seemed like it was happening when there was just enough of a net to keep you alive. If you can't get welfare when you are unemployed and there are suddenly no jobs for a ton of people who are now days away from not being able to eat that seems like a recipe for disaster.
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Nov 26, 2018 18:27
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Fritz Coldcockin posted:3) What the hell does this even mean? If anything, the people who were insisting Franken stay were the ones talking about Bernie supporters' purity tests. i think the "the people who were insisting Franken get kicked to the curb were the same people chanting "Don't let perfect be the enemy of good" at Bernie supporters" is some attempt to claim leftist credibility - e.g. that it was only hypocritical libs trying to get him to step down - which is pretty funny considering the context of these multiple posts defending an abuser
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Nov 26, 2018 18:30
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TheMadMilkman posted:What I recall from my days as a tax compliance officer: Most of the sexworkers these idiots are claiming to be reporting are fully legal. They make and sell porn or stream on cam sites or sext. They're going after them because they're mad at women for existing.
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Nov 26, 2018 18:30
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Lightning Knight posted:http://time.com/5042931/al-franken-accusers/ My bad, couple extra incidents of likely accidental grab rear end that I missed.Oh and an incident of "grabbed breast" where she said he never moved his hand during the photo op and the photo clearly shows his hand nowhere near her breast WHOA smoking gun. Come on dude, I know the usual correct response is to believe women, but Roger Stone knowing it was going to break ahead of time, and also the timing of it seems suspect. This dude was in showbusiness for decades and not a single incident reported until he got into politics. Weird. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 26, 2018 18:30
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This seems kinda cool https://twitter.com/ameliatd/status/1067060459306659846 Non Tweet Links: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-trumps-legal-battles-tell-us-about-presidential-power/ https://github.com/fivethirtyeight/data/tree/master/trump-lawsuits
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Nov 26, 2018 18:31
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GreyjoyBastard posted:"pretty well"? for the US? sure. for mexico? not so much. way fewer mexicans are in unions now than when it passed (since capital can up and move somewhere else). the promised benefits to wages and boost to the economy haven't appeared either. it put pretty much the entire agricultural sector out of work since they couldn't compete with the US. the effect has been at best neutral and at worst actively hindered the mexican economy and labor benefits from rising. that's pretty much the story of every free trade agreement: great for capital, the poorer country and labor loses and is permanently indentured.
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Nov 26, 2018 18:32
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eke out posted:i think the "the people who were insisting Franken get kicked to the curb were the same people chanting "Don't let perfect be the enemy of good" at Bernie supporters" is some attempt to claim leftist credibility which is pretty funny considering the context of these multiple posts defending an abuser Also, the bullshit about the "timing" of the accusations is incredibly laughable considering how god-loving-awful the right has been at faking sexual assault allegations. They'd have fallen apart under the slightest scrutiny if they hadn't had any merit.
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Nov 26, 2018 18:32
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Radish posted:What even happens here? People aren't going to just kindly starve to death and the social safety net has been gutted. the already-high suicide rate among poor working class americans will go even higher, as will trump's vote share
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Nov 26, 2018 18:32
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Ate My Balls Redux posted:My bad, couple extra incidents of likely accidental grab rear end that I missed.Oh and an incident of "grabbed breast" where she said he never moved his hand during the photo op and the photo clearly shows his hand nowhere near her breast WHOA smoking gun. You can save everyone a lot of time by just saying you don't care what his accusers have to say. Edit: lol, nevermind.
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Nov 26, 2018 18:32
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it's cute when people act like they've had some kind of revelation about trump as soon as they lose https://twitter.com/JTHVerhovek/status/1067107650507350017
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Nov 26, 2018 18:34
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http://time.com/4995946/weinstein-workplace-culture/ I put this article in his probation reason but it's also worth posting here, the entire reason men like Franken get away with it for so long is because we live in a society that systematically silences and suppresses women. The entire reason we are predisposed to giving men the benefit of the doubt is because of social conditioning. People in Trump thread were trying to make half-assed arguments defending Franken at the time, I loving remember, it was horrific. Don't do that. There are cases where the details are unclear and it's possible the claims are spurious. See: Ellison, Keith. Franken is not one of those cases.
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Nov 26, 2018 18:35
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eke out posted:it's cute when people act like they've had some kind of revelation about trump as soon as they lose This and that prick in Florida who lost his Congressional race then got all huffy when Trump poo poo on him make me laugh. You motherfuckers knew EXACTLY who and what he was; don't lie.
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Nov 26, 2018 18:36
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Lightning Knight posted:http://time.com/4995946/weinstein-workplace-culture/ Even if it was a hit job that uncovered his behavior, it was still the right thing to do. As someone that really like Franken before this all came out, it was incredibly illuminating to see all of his defenders out themselves as terrible loving people.
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Nov 26, 2018 18:37
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Mantis42 posted:Yes, let's blame the union workers who statistically voted for Trump at an even lower rate than the national and state average. If you willingly vote against your own self-interest, you deserve whatever happens because of it. No sympathy whatsoever.
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Nov 26, 2018 18:39
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btw its cool and good to have a directly personal reason to hate trump as the main reason ford and gm are making these cuts is the tariffs
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Nov 26, 2018 18:39
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Even if it was a hit job that uncovered his behavior, it was still the right thing to do. As someone that really like Franken before this all came out, it was incredibly illuminating to see all of his defenders out themselves as terrible loving people. And as we've seen, the continuing inability of certain folks to resist defending him well after the fact is frankly a gift.
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Nov 26, 2018 18:40
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WoodrowSkillson posted:btw its cool and good to have a directly personal reason to hate trump as the main reason ford and gm are making these cuts is the tariffs but conveniently it happened after the democrats won the House (even though they haven't taken office yet) so the GOP can blame it on them why didnt socialist commie monster AOC save these factories???
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Nov 26, 2018 18:40
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Fritz Coldcockin posted:This and that prick in Florida who lost his Congressional race then got all huffy when Trump poo poo on him make me laugh. You motherfuckers knew EXACTLY who and what he was; don't lie. The fact that the media still tries to cater to the racists who realize they were burned just because they're still right wing is what's really frustrating. Its like the other end of "The Nice Nazi down the street" stories that have a pity party for a loving fash.
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Nov 26, 2018 18:40
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This is terrible for all the people losing their jobs, regardless of who they voted for. Solidarity Forever, goons. If you're for the working class, and especially if you want to bring more people into the fold, extend some help or at least pity rather than guffawing at a bad choice. This is made darker because a direct cause of the closures, the tariffs, have been sold to exactly these same people as something which will help them. Unfortunately, boosting the steel industry via tariffs comes at the cost of essentially socializing the cost of that boost. That socialized cost isn't spread evenly over all Americans. The more steel you buy, the more you pay. At the pinnacle, there's people working in industries which consume a lot of steel. These people are essentially losing their jobs in order to subsidize the steel industry. But it gets darker! Because the benefit the steel industry is getting is going mostly to executives, these people are losing their livelihoods and their towns may be destroyed so steel's 1% can have just a bit more gravy. This is class war and the working people are losing. Chimp_On_Stilts fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Nov 26, 2018 |
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Nov 26, 2018 18:41
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Lightning Knight posted:http://time.com/4995946/weinstein-workplace-culture/ Protecting guys like Franken has a side-effect of protecting guys like Harvey Weinstein. When they say that everyone in Hollywood "knew" about Weinstein, they *knew* that he was a perv, but they didn't generally know that he was a serial rapist. They thought that he was more like Franken - a sleaze, but not a danger. By winking at this, they enabled his far worse abuses. The same thing went with Jimmy Saville in the UK. Everyone *knew* that he liked young girls, but a lot of DJs at the time dated teenage girls (15, 16 or so.) They winked at that, and he was able to rape little kids with impunity. Ellison's accusations are different but more serious. A for-sure groper is better than a "maybe" domestic abuser. I don't like that at all. I think that his career is probably just as stalled as Franken's.
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Nov 26, 2018 18:42
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Even Franken realized that he needed to step down.
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Nov 26, 2018 18:43
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Chimp_On_Stilts posted:This is terrible for all the people losing their jobs, regardless of who they voted for. Solidarity Forever, goons. If you're for the working class, and especially if you want to bring more people into the fold, extend some love rather than guffawing at a bad choice. Extending the helping hand is our politicians' responsibility; on this dumb comedy forum we can poke fun at the stupid racists all we want. I would never expect "you got what you voted for" to be official policy.
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Nov 26, 2018 18:43
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WoodrowSkillson posted:btw its cool and good to have a directly personal reason to hate trump as the main reason ford and gm are making these cuts is the tariffs
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Nov 26, 2018 18:45
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BarbarianElephant posted:Protecting guys like Franken has a side-effect of protecting guys like Harvey Weinstein. When they say that everyone in Hollywood "knew" about Weinstein, they *knew* that he was a perv, but they didn't generally know that he was a serial rapist. They thought that he was more like Franken - a sleaze, but not a danger. By winking at this, they enabled his far worse abuses. The same thing went with Jimmy Saville in the UK. Everyone *knew* that he liked young girls, but a lot of DJs at the time dated teenage girls (15, 16 or so.) They winked at that, and he was able to rape little kids with impunity. Ellison's stuff has no evidence, or am I misinformed on that or something? I haven't seen any if it is out there.
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Nov 26, 2018 18:45
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Ate My Balls Redux posted:Yeah but most media moguls of their same political affiliation don't know ahead of time that the information will be coming out.
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Nov 26, 2018 18:45
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https://twitter.com/SimonMaloy/status/1066876774724837376
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Nov 26, 2018 18:46
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BarbarianElephant posted:Ellison's accusations are different but more serious. A for-sure groper is better than a "maybe" domestic abuser. I don't like that at all. I think that his career is probably just as stalled as Franken's. https://naomikritzer.com/2018/09/29/election-2018-attorney-general/ And even given this, it's still entirely possible she's telling the truth, but I would say it's way, way more likely that Ellison did not abuse his ex-girlfriend than that Franken isn't a serial sexpest.
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Nov 26, 2018 18:46
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Squalid posted:I think you are giving the too much credit. On this subject people resort to vague or even nonsensical criticisms of free trade because they have nothing substative to say, usually out of ignorance. Most of the time when someone points to sweatshops its simply a stalking horse. They don't really know anything about factory conditions in Vietnam or China or Bangladesh, and they don't care what the workers involved actually want or what would make their circumstances better. Instead its just a rhetorical bludgeon used to excuse their own selfish and misguided efforts to protect domestic industry. Efforts we know are actually bad for most workers in the countries thus protected. I don't really know how to respond to this since it's impossible to discuss anything if we're just going to assume that everyone who wants a particular policy is a bad actor who is secretly working to undermine that particular policy. We can say for absolute certain that exploitative working conditions that exist as part of a race to the bottom for the labor market objectively do not exist for the benefits of workers, and any reduction to poverty is just an incidental effect. That alone is a perfectly valid reason to criticize nations that allow those conditions to exist. "But maybe people who want better working conditions are actually secret protectionists!" isn't really, because it has nothing to do with the thing we're actually talking about. All you're saying is that if we want to do something then we should do it right which, I mean, yeah. I agree.
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Nov 26, 2018 18:50
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DEBATE MY FRIEND AND I'LL MODERATE AND IT'LL BE TOTES FAIR I SWEAR
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Nov 26, 2018 18:51
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The one thing AOC could do that would be better than everything she's already done is continue to flat-out refuse these debate challenges. Manchildren like Charlie Kirk and Ben Shapiro need to feel like big men, and literally all they'd do is Gish Gallop her into submission. Deny them the opportunity to make headlines and money off dumb people. Just keep saying "Yeah, I have an actual job to do that doesn't involve grifting stupid people."
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Nov 26, 2018 18:51
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Goddamn, Melania "Krampus" Trump is back with her nightmarish version of Christmas decor. https://twitter.com/ParkerMolloy/status/1067091586520162305 I assume there is sound, but I'm waiting for someone to re-dub it with Penderecki
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Nov 26, 2018 18:52
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Fritz Coldcockin posted:The one thing AOC could do that would be better than everything she's already done is continue to flat-out refuse these debate challenges. Manchildren like Charlie Kirk and Ben Shapiro need to feel like big men, and literally all they'd do is Gish Gallop her into submission. Deny them the opportunity to make headlines and money off dumb people. Just keep saying "Yeah, I have an actual job to do that doesn't involve grifting stupid people." It's extremely telling that they think "being internet famous" puts them on equal footing with "an actual congressperson" in terms of social status because that congressperson happens to be a working class woman of color.
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Nov 26, 2018 18:53
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Fritz Coldcockin posted:The one thing AOC could do that would be better than everything she's already done is continue to flat-out refuse these debate challenges. Manchildren like Charlie Kirk and Ben Shapiro need to feel like big men, and literally all they'd do is Gish Gallop her into submission. Deny them the opportunity to make headlines and money off dumb people. Just keep saying "Yeah, I have an actual job to do that doesn't involve grifting stupid people." Oh yeah that's a trap and people fall into it all the time with climate deniers and creationists. Debating someone sends the message that there is value to their position, and it's exactly what Ben "I'm totes reasonable and intellectual also trans people don't exist" Shapiro wants
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Nov 26, 2018 18:54
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They want a denial also so they can tweet "debate me you coward" for internet points. Best course is ignoring them.
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Nov 26, 2018 18:57
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