|
Andrast posted:Jojo was not created, it was discovered I almost entirely unironically agree. Expect My Mom posted:I think it's weird when people act like Araki is a lunatic who just lucked into making a cool funny story that no one should try to dissect or look for metaphors in this weird anti-intellectual stance instead of thinking he's just an eccentric who writes cool stuff that's worthy of serious criticism and discussion Lol how do you even get to the point where you think that people are being anti-intellectual. My dude.
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2018 20:20
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 14:56 |
|
|
Expect My Mom posted:I think it's weird when people act like Araki is a lunatic who just lucked into making a cool funny story that no one should try to dissect or look for metaphors in this weird anti-intellectual stance instead of thinking he's just an eccentric who writes cool stuff that's worthy of serious criticism and discussion If you want to have a serious discussion about the critical themes of Jojo we can start getting Derrida about it but dont act like "the theme of 4 is ruined if it's not a stranger" is serious criticism
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2018 20:21
|
|
|
I mean actually it was made by an almost 60 year old man who was consistently exposed to western media as a child who grew up to view the world is an interesting and pretty chaotic place and now has a wife and two kids I think but alright
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2018 20:22
|
|
|
Andrast posted:is everything gatekeeping these days it's not only gatekeeping but it also may even be gaslighting to have a different opinion on a manga than me
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2018 20:25
|
|
|
TooManyUzukis posted:I almost entirely unironically agree. Mel Mudkiper posted:If you want to have a serious discussion about the critical themes of Jojo we can start getting Derrida about it but dont act like "the theme of 4 is ruined if it's not a stranger" is serious criticism that theory makes the story of part 4 worse and so araki didn't write it that way and trying to create that headcanon makes it weaker imo. like if you wanna believe that's Josuke from the future, go with God, I cannot stop you, but I'd also hope you see why other people find that very silly
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2018 20:27
|
|
|
there are plenty of oddities, inconsistencies, and clear shifts in direction that are present early on in every JoJo part but “Josuke looking a lot like the dude he said he based his own look off of and devoted his life to being like” isn’t one of them. that’s literal nonsense.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2018 20:30
|
|
|
absolutely FUMING as i phonepost from work due to it being a slow day about a topic i've seen come and go like 8 times already
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2018 20:33
|
|
|
The question of who the guy who saved Josuke was gets revisited in one of the light novels (The Book: JoJo's Bizarre Adventure 4th Another Day). The LN's new anti-hero character offers to Josuke to figure out who it was using his memory powers, and even raises the possibility that Josuke went back in time to save himself, but Josuke says he doesn't want to know who it really was.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2018 20:35
|
|
|
I mean, I didn't expect that level of reaction but ok If Expect my Mom would ever like to talk critical theory in jojo he is welcome to join me in one of the book barns many criticism threads but otherwise sorry I said anything Brother Entropy posted:it's not only gatekeeping but it also may even be gaslighting to have a different opinion on a manga than me I mean, Ive been called a nerd who doesn't know how to read because I didn't interpret a manga the same way as someone else so I think the description is accurate Mel Mudkiper fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Nov 26, 2018 |
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2018 20:35
|
|
|
Mel Mudkiper posted:I mean, I didn't expect that level of reaction but ok this is getting embarassing
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2018 20:38
|
|
|
maybe josuke was actually saved by ness from earthbound
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2018 20:39
|
|
|
Expect My Mom posted:Disregarding the many posts already explaining why Josuke being saved himself would undermine the entire theme of Part 4, let's look at this realistically. Didn't Araki also say in an interview once that Kira was only added to the story after rethinking his original decision to not have a "central villain" figure like DIO for Part 4?
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2018 20:41
|
|
|
Josuke died in that car and everything from the mysterious stranger onwards is a dream when he's in a coma.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2018 20:41
|
|
|
Sorry to snap like a madman possessed but so much of the Josuke Saved Himself Theory feeds a lot into how modern media consumer culture hates ambiguous endings or "plotholes" in order to make things logical rather than thematic sense Again if you truly believe Josuke saved himself, go for it! I cant stop you! But I find it super weak and it ignores a lot of what Araki actually wrote Mel Mudkiper posted:If Expect my Mom would ever like to talk critical theory in jojo he is welcome to join me in one of the book barns many criticism threads but otherwise sorry I said anything
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2018 20:41
|
|
|
Araki was just physically incapable at the time from drawing a pompadour-wearing delinquent and not having him turn out looking exactly like Josuke.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2018 20:41
|
|
|
Mel Mudkiper posted:Josuke getting saved by Josuke is probably the ultimate "plans have changed" in all of Jojo Mel Mudkiper posted:oh poo poo I just had a thought, what if <spoilers from manga thread> and finally explaining that dropped plotline from Diamond my man you posted these things within just a few minutes of each other, you're either being willfully obtuse about every criticism someone has or you're trying to low-effort troll both jojo threads
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2018 20:43
|
|
|
Expect My Mom posted:Thanks for the invite, but as an English undergrad, posting about books online Terrifies me. I've never even looked in the book barn! We make men in our threads, we forge iron wills. We birthed BotL and inflicted him on the lesser subforums for their hubris Xad posted:my man you posted these things within just a few minutes of each other, you're either being willfully obtuse about every criticism someone has or you're trying to low-effort troll both jojo threads I posted that one in the manga thread because it occurred to me while talking about it in this thread but since it had a manga spoiler I didn't want to post it in here.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2018 20:43
|
|
|
Funky Valentine posted:Araki was just physically incapable at the time from drawing a pompadour-wearing delinquent and not having him turn out looking exactly like Josuke. look forward to my video essay about how every character in Part 1 and 2 looking exactly like Jonathan Joestar is actually because of time travel
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2018 20:45
|
|
|
Okay but what about Mista's backstory? You expect me to believe three people shot a guy and not single bullet hit not only that but the guy stole one of the shooter's guns and killed all three of them???
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2018 20:47
|
|
|
Josuke being saved as a kid has nothing to do with Bites the Dust for the simple fact that it's a weekly manga and Araki had probably not even thought of Kira as the villain yet, let alone planned out his full evolution of power.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2018 20:47
|
|
|
Electric Phantasm posted:Okay but what about Mista's backstory? You expect me to believe three people shot a guy and not single bullet hit not only that but the guy stole one of the shooter's guns and killed all three of them??? 1) Yes 2) Because shut up this should probably go in the op as a general faq Yinlock fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Nov 26, 2018 |
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2018 20:48
|
|
|
Electric Phantasm posted:Okay but what about Mista's backstory? You expect me to believe three people shot a guy and not single bullet hit not only that but the guy stole one of the shooter's guns and killed all three of them??? What if Mista traveled back in time and used Sex Pistols to save his pre-stand user self?
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2018 20:49
|
|
|
Electric Phantasm posted:Okay but what about Mista's backstory? You expect me to believe three people shot a guy and not single bullet hit not only that but the guy stole one of the shooter's guns and killed all three of them??? Ka Ka Ka Ka Kachi Daze.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2018 20:51
|
|
|
Gruckles posted:What if Mista traveled back in time and used Sex Pistols to save his pre-stand user self? broke: Mista traveled back in time and had sex pistols redirect the bullets woke: Sale traveled back in time and had Kraftwerk stop the bullets
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2018 20:53
|
|
|
my favorite thing about the mista backstory is how the narrator grows increasingly incredulous as it continues "ok it's dark and aiming a gun while panicked isn't easy, a few shots whiffing is understandable" "wait why is every shot missing, this is bullshit" "now he's reloading in a hail of gunfire what the gently caress"
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2018 20:55
|
|
|
I mean, the main reason it feels like setup is because DIU is all about that Twilight Zone urban-supernatural vibe, and stable time loops where you mentor yourself as a kid/become your own grandmother/whatever are a classic trope of that genre. You can debate whether it fits with the theme, but it certainly fits with the aesthetic.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2018 20:56
|
|
|
Silver2195 posted:The question of who the guy who saved Josuke was gets revisited in one of the light novels (The Book: JoJo's Bizarre Adventure 4th Another Day). The LN's new anti-hero character offers to Josuke to figure out who it was using his memory powers, and even raises the possibility that Josuke went back in time to save himself, but Josuke says he doesn't want to know who it really was. By the way, I recommend The Book. It's a bit unlike the manga/anime tonally (it feels more like an early Nasuverse story in some ways), but it works well as the kind of story it is. There's no Part 5 spoilers in it either.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2018 21:04
|
|
|
Mel Mudkiper posted:broke: Mista traveled back in time and had sex pistols redirect the bullets bespoke: the rapist goon had a Stand that redirects bullets away from his target but he didn't have time to master it
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2018 21:06
|
|
|
I want to read the book that has Joseph's father visiting the 30 Kars that all live on the moon or whatever
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2018 21:06
|
|
|
Mel Mudkiper posted:We make men in our threads, we forge iron wills.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2018 21:09
|
|
|
Johnny Joestar posted:also i caught the implication earlier that the world was supposed to be everyone's stands but that has literally never been anything but a dumb and everpresent fan theory that keeps popping up despite the guy who actually wrote it directly saying otherwise Not everyone's stands; DIO's true power is the ability to steal things from Joestars.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2018 21:13
|
|
|
Tunicate posted:Not everyone's stands; DIO's true power is the ability to steal things from Joestars. Of course there was only like three of them with Stands at the time so the only things DIO could steal was Punch Good, Stop Time, and Useless Vines.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2018 21:15
|
|
|
Under the "Stand = rear end in a top hat" theory, Holly (not an rear end in a top hat) was fine after DIO's demise meant her poo poo kept popping out. She could probably in principle have used the Stand but it seemed to mostly be thorn shibari so the utility is limited. I also expect Araki did slightly adjust things there because it was incredibly clear to him, probably by the time the gang hits southern Asia, that he had a real good plan going.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2018 21:42
|
|
|
invisible baby is not an rear end in a top hat so i reject that entire theory
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2018 21:46
|
|
|
Brother Entropy posted:invisible baby is not an rear end in a top hat so i reject that entire theory all babies are assholes source: every parent
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2018 22:22
|
|
|
Brother Entropy posted:invisible baby is not an rear end in a top hat so i reject that entire theory All babies are assholes. Some just loose it when they get older. EDIT:fb
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2018 22:22
|
|
|
David D. Davidson posted:All babies are assholes. Some just loose it when they get older. Or unloose it, as the case may be.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2018 22:26
|
|
|
Mel Mudkiper posted:Apparently it was originally supposed to have something to do with Another One Bites the Dust which is why the savior is bloodied and beaten up Keep in mind that this is a backstory that Koichi theorized and not even one Josuke confirms. The guy could very well have looked like Josuke because Koichi didn't have a visual idea of him.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2018 22:57
|
|
|
W.T. Fits posted:Didn't Araki also say in an interview once that Kira was only added to the story after rethinking his original decision to not have a "central villain" figure like DIO for Part 4? Yes. Here's the quote you're probably thinking of. quote:The first enemies were student-level enemies like Okuyasu and Keicho, also the guitarist Otoishi Akira—at first I was thinking of student level, delinquent level enemies. The reason for that being that I didn’t want to make a sort of ‘Greatest enemy’. When you create a ‘Greatest enemy’ to be overcome, to be the goal, the readers can’t focus on anything besides that. I didn’t want that to become a weakness in the work. For every story I wrote, I wanted the attention to be on what’s happening right now. Here is the full interview. Spoilers from other parts if you click on the different years for other interviews, btw. Is this incredibly nerdy of me to find this interview offhand from memory? Maybe it is. But I also remember finding this from the last loving time we've gone over this. In this same interview, he talks about the guy who saves Josuke as "the man with the pompadour" and that's it. There's such a strong reaction because this keeps coming up over and over again, even when there's no actual evidence for it being a dropped plot line. Okay? All right? We good?
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2018 23:13
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 14:56 |
|
|
imo it's a lot more impactful that josuke was so affected by the random kindness of a total stranger than time loop shenanigans
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2018 23:39
|
|
