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Raserys posted:imo it's a lot more impactful that josuke was so affected by the random kindness of a total stranger than time loop shenanigans On the other hand it could be kinda motivational because Josuke lives his whole life aspiring to be like his hero and then discovers he was his own hero all along 
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Nov 26, 2018 23:41
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i can't believe they ripped off deku's backstory from my hero academia for josuke, i hope the president of jojo gets sued
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Nov 26, 2018 23:52
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That interview explains so much about Eyes of Heaven. 
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Nov 26, 2018 23:54
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Hirohiko Araki posted:I love Kira's personality. He is always calm and tries to keep a low profile. He consistently does his best to live a quiet life, which includes secretly killing women and always having a hand to hold (literally). The way he keeps a record of the length of his nails is similar to things I do, like keeping track of my blood pressure. He knows and admits his quirks and usually knows what he's doing; he understands that there is no way to stop him. I admire him so much except for the fact he kills. i love this kira lore. i love kira
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Nov 27, 2018 00:15
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More galaxy brain questions after that: did Araki self-insert more into Kira or Rohan?
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Nov 27, 2018 00:19
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Hirohiko Araki posted:I admire him so much except for the fact he kills.
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Nov 27, 2018 00:43
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TooManyUzukis posted:The funniest thing about this conversation whenever it comes up is how incredibly ANGRY people get over any threat to the thematic integrity of the weird, incredibly inconsistent, baffling story that is JoJo. JoJo is a cool loving collection of creative ideas and characters that occasionally, almost accidentally it feels like, coalesce into a coherent whole. This is a dumb take because Jojo does have thematic integrity and has various different themes and concepts that crop up time and again and it's silly to write it off as this "weird, incredibly inconsistent, baffling story" when Jojo has time and again expressed these thoughts over and over but in different ways. Also, the reason Josuke's hero was bloody from a fight was to give the impression that he was an absolute thug who probably was only ever going to be trouble. It's to subvert the expectations and show that even someone who you might otherwise think is just bad news in this town is clearly selfless and willing to put others before themself. You see this in previous parts of JJBA as well, with Jonathan making a lifetime family friend out of Speedwagon, Joseph being rude but ultimately having heart and a sense of justice, Jotaro being a complete mama's boy who tries to look like a badass but it's clear that he is just putting up a facade that nobody will ever call him out on because he's got the muscles to back it up, and even now with the cast of part 5 with Giorno's dream of defending others as a Gangstar when he feels that the police have failed society and that it is up to the mafia to step up and help those who can't otherwise be helped.
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Nov 27, 2018 01:15
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FirstAidKite posted:This is a dumb take because Jojo does have thematic integrity and has various different themes and concepts that crop up time and again and it's silly to write it off as this "weird, incredibly inconsistent, baffling story" when Jojo has time and again expressed these thoughts over and over but in different ways. That take really bothers me because, in addition to what you said, the man wrote an entire book about his writing process. Like, you can just go and read it and discover that Araki actually knows what he's doing, and has been doing it on a consistent basis for nearly 30 years now. Also everyone should read it because it's good and it has some genuinely great writing advice!
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Nov 27, 2018 01:23
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Is it actually officially translated or is this something where you have to work through some fan poo poo
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Nov 27, 2018 01:28
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It's absolutely translated and I have it on my bookshelf right now. It's "Manga in Theory and Practice". It also spoils other parts of the manga if you're Anime Only but if you don't mind that, then pick if up if you can.
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Nov 27, 2018 01:30
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araki is genuinely really good at what he does and the attempts to make him come off like some random dude who got lucky is kind of baffling. like there's multiple things i take issue with when it comes to the series which i know for a fact i've talked about before in the manga thread, but ultimately he is very much aware of what he's doing and is fairly skilled in the medium. i'm not going to aim this all specifically at this thread or any particular group, mind you, it's just a weird trend i've noticed occasionally where someone feels the need to just classify it as this random goofy collection of bullshit that's apparently something akin to araki just throwing darts at a board with post-it notes on it or whatever. on the flipside i'm not going to pretend he's some Perfect Maestro and everything he does is flawless, but to imply he just kind of stumbles into having things work out is kind of insulting to a dude who has helped shape popular media for a few decades now.
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Nov 27, 2018 01:58
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Thats an interesting statement about Kira's parents. I can't exactly see whats strange about his mom from the photo (by jojo standards shes downright plain) but I do notice neither of them are blonde.
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Nov 27, 2018 01:59
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Yeah the mythologizing of people like Araki or Kojima as these inscrutable creators that are beyond comprehension really bothers me. It takes away from their actual design, ideas, influences and process while shutting down any attempts to dissect or study it, just shut up and eat your food. It's in the same vein as "This Was Obviously Made On Drugs", it's doing nothing but dumbing down the work of creators because you don't want to think about it. Personally it also borders on some racist Lol Japanese People Are Wacky ideas that make me uncomfortable
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Nov 27, 2018 02:02
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Johnny Joestar posted:araki is genuinely really good at what he does and the attempts to make him come off like some random dude who got lucky is kind of baffling. who is doing this? I've never heard anyone say anything close to that about Araki Expect My Mom posted:Yeah the mythologizing of people like Araki or Kojima as these inscrutable creators that are beyond comprehension really bothers me. It takes away from their actual design, ideas, influences and process while shutting down any attempts to dissect or study it, just shut up and eat your food. Yeah I mean personally I find it kind of interesting seeing him create a unique style out of the tropes of Italian haute couture fashion because its literally something no other mangaka does
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Nov 27, 2018 02:05
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I do appreciate that his style of writing fights seems to heavily rely on writing the characters into a corner and finding a way for them to get out again though, but more controlled than that obviously
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Nov 27, 2018 02:06
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Mel Mudkiper posted:who is doing this? I've never heard anyone say anything close to that about Araki i absolutely have. like i said, i'm not aiming it specifically at this thread or anything by any means. some people just classify jojo as being wacky random bullshit with no coherency to it, which, i'm not going to tell them they're enjoying a thing the wrong way, but it does do the creator a disservice you don't get art displayed in the louvre or get a promotional deal with gucci by just being wacky random bullshit
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Nov 27, 2018 02:08
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Expect My Mom posted:It's in the same vein as "This Was Obviously Made On Drugs", it's doing nothing but dumbing down the work of creators because you don't want to think about it. Ohh I think this is what's bothering me about all that too, yeah. It really implies not understanding how the creative process works.
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Nov 27, 2018 02:12
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Johnny Joestar posted:i absolutely have. like i said, i'm not aiming it specifically at this thread or anything by any means. some people just classify jojo as being wacky random bullshit with no coherency to it, which, i'm not going to tell them they're enjoying a thing the wrong way, but it does do the creator a disservice I mean, Jojo IS wacky random bullshit but its not bad wacky random bullshit. What makes Araki better than a writer who is just making up everything as it goes along is that it maintains a consistent sense of surreality that ends up making the absurdity coherent. Its kind of vaguely Dada. Take Soft Machine for example. Deflating a boat and covering another boat in the deflated boat so you can sneak through the deflated boat without being noticed is absolutely loving wacky as hell. The difference though is that he has created a consistent sense of reality in which that happening doesn't seem implausible within the rules of the universe. The genius of jojo is not that he just randomly makes stuff up, its that hes created a narrative reality which allows the reader to immediately buy into seemingly outlandish events. EDIT: The second cool thing about Jojo is that he mostly avoids power creep by having opponents grow laterally to the protagonist. Josuke and Crazy Diamond are just as strong in the first chapter as the last. The fights have all been about experimenting with that power in context with other powers. Mel Mudkiper fucked around with this message at 02:19 on Nov 27, 2018 |
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Nov 27, 2018 02:13
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Mel Mudkiper posted:I mean, Jojo IS wacky random bullshit but its not bad wacky random bullshit. I think a big part of this is the detailed art style and the general use of realistic detail to ground the absurdity. Xibanya has made some interesting points about the difference between Jojo and something like Dragon Ball, where absurdity is the default and almost nothing is meant to be taken very seriously. FirstAidKite posted:I do appreciate that his style of writing fights seems to heavily rely on writing the characters into a corner and finding a way for them to get out again though, but more controlled than that obviously Oh yeah. An important aspect of this is the way he often writes both participants in a fight into corners without having a fixed structure to it, instead of the Fairy Tail approach where the protagonist is the one losing until they turn things around at the very last second, or the Bleach approach where whoever uses their full power first loses.
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Nov 27, 2018 02:27
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Silver2195 posted:Oh yeah. An important aspect of this is the way he often writes both participants in a fight into corners without having a fixed structure to it, instead of the Fairy Tail approach where the protagonist is the one losing until they turn things around at the very last second, or the Bleach approach where whoever uses their full power first loses. I do think this is something that he grew into, and creating stands was a big part of it. Like, the arbitrarity of Hamoan and especially a lot of the fights in Battle Tendency kind of show that Araki's style of combat can kind of fall apart if not well grounded. I mean, the Esidisi conclusion is absolute bullshit in the worst way because he hadnt yet really mastered the craft of how to allow the reader to buy into absurd outcomes yet EDIT: Also I swear to god if someone starts getting all condescending about how hamoan in part 2 makes perfect sense I am gonna scream Mel Mudkiper fucked around with this message at 02:38 on Nov 27, 2018 |
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Nov 27, 2018 02:32
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Mel Mudkiper posted:I do think this is something that he grew into, and creating stands was a big part of it. It's Hamon (or better yet, the Ripple), not Hamoan. And while I won't claim everything involving the Ripple in Part 2 makes perfect sense, I didn't have a problem with the Eisidisi conclusion (assuming you mean the rope trick).
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Nov 27, 2018 02:43
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Mel Mudkiper posted:I mean, Jojo IS wacky random bullshit but its not bad wacky random bullshit. what makes JoJo work is that no one is looking at the camera and winking, or commenting on how weird this all is, that this is such a bizarre situation that they've found themselves in. Everything is presented with the gravest possible tone, and we're expected (and we do) to act with dread when the salaryman with a skull tie and his giant pink cat robot start shooting invisible air bubbles out of the cat plant in it's tummy. It's also grounded itself in our world. We're exploring Egyptian and Italian locales, characters have favorite movies and bands, they grow up and get careers, but unbeknownst to the rest of this world, strange powers are everywhere and any moment could be a life or death battle with a guy who can turn things into paper and that's just a fun fantasy to get lost in. It's fun to imagine yourself as one of the Straw Hat Pirates or in the World's Martial Arts Tournament, but those aren't sustainable in a day to day setting, whereas you could sit and think of a million ways you could use the ability to unzip things in your day to day life Expect My Mom fucked around with this message at 02:46 on Nov 27, 2018 |
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Nov 27, 2018 02:43
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Silver2195 posted:It's Hamon (or better yet, the Ripple), not Hamoan. And while I won't claim everything involving the Ripple in Part 2 makes perfect sense, I didn't have a problem with the Eisidisi conclusion (assuming you mean the rope trick). look, SMT spelling trumps jojo spelling for me  my issue with the rope trick is that it doesn't establish he is doing anything with the string in the first place until he reveals he did it. Like we are let into his head to see that is laying a string trap but for some reason he keeps the fact he does the cut rope trick with the string secret from his own internal monologue Mel Mudkiper fucked around with this message at 02:52 on Nov 27, 2018 |
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Nov 27, 2018 02:50
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I'm not going to justify whether that is good or bad but I just want to bring up that Araki likes magic tricks (or rather, I assume he does) because in one of his earlier manga titles, Cool Shock BT, it was always about how there was this kid named BT who was really good at sleight of hand so he could beat up bullies and get away with major theft and help out his good buddy Koichi Hirose when Koichi and BT get kidnapped by a hitler larper and Araki would always include stuff at the end about how to do some of these tricks be it "how to temporarily blind a person by shooting a rubber band into their eye" or "how to look like you're communicating with ghosts by scratching a message into your arm lightly and then quickly rubbing back and forth with a charm to increase blood flow to the area in order to make a message appear" or "how to trick people into thinking you just bent a spoon without actually bending the spoon" or "how to put a giant killer hornet to sleep so that you can capture it and slip it into someone's pocket" So I would not at all be surprised if Araki was just like "I saw this cool rope trick, I'm gonna have Joseph do that cool rope trick" 
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Nov 27, 2018 03:18
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So are Giorno and Josuke going to grow to 6'5" like all the other Joestar men or did the Part 4 artstyle change free them from the family curse?
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Nov 27, 2018 03:39
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Mel Mudkiper posted:I do think this is something that he grew into, and creating stands was a big part of it.
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Nov 27, 2018 03:57
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Josuke getting saved by Josuke is probably the ultimate "plans have changed" in all of Jojo No it wasnt' the entire loving deal with part 4 is that the people of Morioh are it's Golden Heart and actively try to do good for each other and the town at large. Yosuke is a good boy and dresses teh way he was because he was inspired by the selflessness of a random stranger in town who saved him and his mom even though he was injured. It being himself would basically loving ruin the entire point on the story and Josuke's character. It was always just some guy because that's what good people in morioh do. Villains in part 4 aren't just bad because they're murderers it's because they take from people around them and the world without giving anything back. It's why when you lose if you change your ways you get integrated to the townie squad at large (see: Everyone showing up when Minion Boy died)
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Nov 27, 2018 04:08
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How does someone read a post that lead to a three page argument without also reading the three page argument
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Nov 27, 2018 04:21
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Mel Mudkiper posted:I mean, Jojo IS wacky random bullshit but its not bad wacky random bullshit. Jojo is weird, sometimes wacky, and obviously bizarre, but that's not the same as being "random". "Random" means happening by chance or in some arbitrary way, like using a dart board, as Johnny Joestar (the poster) mentioned. Just because Araki doesn't plan things years in advance and sometimes changes things doesn't mean there's not a reason behind his decisions. quote:The genius of jojo is not that he just randomly makes stuff up, its that hes created a narrative reality which allows the reader to immediately buy into seemingly outlandish events. Expect My Mom posted:what makes JoJo work is that no one is looking at the camera and winking, or commenting on how weird this all is, that this is such a bizarre situation that they've found themselves in. Everything is presented with the gravest possible tone, and we're expected (and we do) to act with dread when the salaryman with a skull tie and his giant pink cat robot start shooting invisible air bubbles out of the cat plant in it's tummy. This is probably my favorite thing about Jojo overall. Even obvious jokes, like this one work so well because of the dryness of the delivery.  Mel Mudkiper posted:EDIT: Also I swear to god if someone starts getting all condescending about how hamoan in part 2 makes perfect sense I am gonna scream I'm not saying there's hard and fast rules but generally using the ripple involves some kind of energy transfer or manipulates surface tension. It's not completely arbitrary.
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Nov 27, 2018 04:38
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a strength of jojo is that it's so sure of its own poo poo that you're inclined to believe it because on top of everything else araki goes whole hog when it comes to coming up with explanations for weird poo poo that normally would never get an explanation
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Nov 27, 2018 04:52
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Speaking of, my favorite narrative thing Araki does is construct some story beats the same way you'd construct a joke. This last episode of JoJo is a perfect example of that, with the truck driver. He gets bossed around the entire episode and as soon as things calm down and Mista takes Sale away, he's like "gently caress this, why did I have to go through that, this is bullshit, I'm not a loving taxi, I'm really gonna let the next guy have it," and then Giorno shows up. Not only is the set up and punchline great, it goes the way it does because of character interaction and tells us things about the characters. Sale forces the truck driver to keep going with his stand, Mista tries to boss him around as soon as he's free and the orders keep changing depending on what Sale's doing next, but he promises he isn't going to hurt the guy, and the fight is all very confusing, and as soon as they stop, Giorno finds what he's looking for and he's so focused on finding a vehicle to tail them that it doesn't register that this is what he's supposed to be tailing. He just gets in and mimics what a gangster would do and it's all very absurd but still in character.
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Nov 27, 2018 04:52
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Mel Mudkiper posted:look, SMT spelling trumps jojo spelling for me if you're going to say this i have no way to resist mentioning that it's Hamaon Anyway to do the mythical 'you're not alone,' I always read it like Araki's original plan was in fact for it to be Josuke being back in time saving himself for whatever reason, primarily because I figured at this point he'd locked in on the idea that time powers were a big deal for him. I think he then backed down on that idea (Araki changing his mind on things/coming up with stuff partway through isn't exactly unprecedented) for the reasons previously stated re: the Golden Heart of Morioh. Basically everyone's right
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Nov 27, 2018 05:18
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Nov 27, 2018 05:22
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YggiDee posted:So are Giorno and Josuke going to grow to 6'5" like all the other Joestar men or did the Part 4 artstyle change free them from the family curse? Josuke was giant at the start of the Part 4 manga, so maybe. Giorno's always been a lanky boy, though.
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Nov 27, 2018 05:53
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Mel Mudkiper posted:The genius of jojo is not that he just randomly makes stuff up, its that hes created a narrative reality which allows the reader to immediately buy into seemingly outlandish events. everything in jojo is completely loving insane out of context, but when you get there yourself you're like "hm yes the callouses are a swiss army knife, this makes perfect sense"
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Nov 27, 2018 05:57
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Remember when Jack the Ripper hid his entire body in a few seconds inside of a horse that was still standing up
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Nov 27, 2018 08:26
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Tunicate posted:Not everyone's stands; DIO's true power is the ability to steal things from Joestars. Stealing other stand abilities isn't DIO's power. It's Jotaro's.
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Nov 27, 2018 14:18
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Dio's stand power is to imitate stands of the Joestar bloodline. This imitation power places a malignant curse on the Joestars. This malignant curse may force a Joestar to grow a stand similar to being pierced by the arrow and either survive or die much like getting pierced by the arrow. The malignant curse makes it harder to survive this phase of acquiring a stand. Holly and Josuke are dying because they are weak, but are strong enough without the oppressive curse. Dio's stand power awakened naturally in this particular way (or by being hit by the arrow I forget what is the explanation) because he was so obsessed with the Joestar bloodline and acquiring a Joestar's body. This explanation helps resolve why some Joestars grew a stand and were dying because they were too weak. It also explains how they got better with Dio's death. It also explains how baby stand users who aren't a joestar can have a stand without dying. This also fits with the canon in-universe observations for how Dio could get such a crazy specific stand power since other stand users have gotten crazy specific stands based on their obsession. This also makes it not pure bizarre coincidence that Dio demonstrated the same stand powers as Joseph and Jotaro. comedyblissoption fucked around with this message at 15:04 on Nov 27, 2018 |
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Nov 27, 2018 14:26
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It’s also fanon.
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Nov 27, 2018 14:56
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comedyblissoption posted:Dio's stand power is to imitate stands of the Joestar bloodline. This imitation power places a malignant curse on the Joestars. This malignant curse may force a Joestar to grow a stand similar to being pierced by the arrow and either survive or die much like getting pierced by the arrow. The malignant curse makes it harder to survive this phase of acquiring a stand. Holly and Josuke are dying because they are weak, but are strong enough without the oppressive curse. Dio's stand power awakened naturally in this particular way (or by being hit by the arrow I forget what is the explanation) because he was so obsessed with the Joestar bloodline and acquiring a Joestar's body. I'm pretty sure word of Araki is: The World is DIO's Stand, other Hermit Purple is Jonathan's.
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Nov 27, 2018 15:05
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