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Suicide Watch posted:Guys in high speed units like SEALs and Ranger Battalion (or even infantry) are probably likely to have a background in football and other contact sports (water polo, wrestling). Any clearly indication that it's strictly war and training exposure and not past history that contributes to CTE and other brain injury? That's why we're doing all these studies. We need a hundred times the number of participants we have now to even begin to unravel this poo poo. It's mostly kinda unrelated but there's also a possibility that long-term firearms exposure also causes lead-based neurodegenerative issues. So that's another thing on top of it that the military is very interested in, again mostly from a liability perspective.
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Nov 28, 2018 03:24
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Suddenly feelin' glad that I've only been knocked out twice (once from competitive fighting, once from really dumb teenager poo poo), and the vast majority of my firearm use has been 5.56 and below. Now I just have to worry about [litany of family physical and mental health issues in my ancestry].
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Nov 28, 2018 03:31
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Vasudus posted:That's why we're doing all these studies. We need a hundred times the number of participants we have now to even begin to unravel this poo poo. Is there any data from veterans of WWII or Korea? Both of those wars were large in terms of affected population and made use of large caliber weapons.
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Nov 28, 2018 03:38
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Most likely the burn pit exposure will be what does me in. I have a legit fear of persistent flu-like symptoms being the harbinger of the turbocancer that knowing my luck I'll develop. A vet at my school died at 34, after a three year fight with some rare lung cancer. He was in the same general areas of Iraq as me, but a year and a half earlier. I turned 34 earlier this month. He didn't smoke. psydude posted:Is there any data from veterans of WWII or Korea? Both of those wars were large in terms of affected population and made use of large caliber weapons. There's hardly data from the current wars. We didn't even start tracking blast data until 2009. The alarm bells didn't start to go off until some nerds figured out that people without a history of major TBI events but long-term heavy firearms exposure were showing CTE-like symptoms. In 2016. At least now since ~2007 there's a full blown, four staff member health surveillance group that monitors ICD-9/10 codes from military health records to start picking this poo poo out. Vasudus fucked around with this message at 03:43 on Nov 28, 2018 |
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Nov 28, 2018 03:39
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[quote="Vasudus" there's a strong possibility that people who are continually exposed to subconcussive blasts (like say, any gunfire at all but especially 7.62+) might run the risk of developing CTE. [/quote] Wait, what, really? I was a 240 gunner. 
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Nov 28, 2018 03:40
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https://twitter.com/emptywheel/status/1067599342083735552 people keep underestimating mueller for some reason
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Nov 28, 2018 03:43
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Long term exposure my dudes, like people who are range masters for years or people with extremely intense training schedules. I'm not saying that if you fired more than a belt of 7.62+ you're gonna get CTE.
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Nov 28, 2018 03:44
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Thalantos posted:Wait, what, really? I was a 240 gunner. yea, checking a lot of boxes here. once got my head in between an lmtv and the giant tent we were loading up; spent about an hour writing my last name in my notebook before any one noticed.
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Nov 28, 2018 03:44
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Vasudus posted:Most likely the burn pit exposure will be what does me in. Ever since I got back from Afghanistan my nose constantly runs and I have to clear my throat way more frequently. I'm sure the two aren't connected at all (I think I'm going to finally bite the bullet and go to a ENT).
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Nov 28, 2018 03:48
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psydude posted:Ever since I got back from Afghanistan my nose constantly runs and I have to clear my throat way more frequently. I'm sure the two aren't connected at all (I think I'm going to finally bite the bullet and go to a ENT). its your brain juice dude 
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Nov 28, 2018 03:50
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Tryzzub posted:yea, checking a lot of boxes here. That could be classified as Alteration of Consciousness (AOC) or possibly PTA - Post-traumatic Amnesia. Both are common in classifiable head injuries. If you want to see how the AFHSB classifies TBI, here's a really dry PDF: https://www.health.mil/Reference-Center/Publications/2015/12/01/Traumatic-Brain-Injury Note that this is for epidemiological tracking so it contradicts what I said earlier - AFHSB classifies penetrating head injuries as different from severe, but that's a tracking thing. Nobody that gets their gourd ruptured is going to be anything but severe.
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Nov 28, 2018 03:51
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FAUXTON posted:https://twitter.com/emptywheel/status/1067599342083735552 He’s amazing.
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Nov 28, 2018 03:52
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FAUXTON posted:https://twitter.com/emptywheel/status/1067599342083735552 If it comes out that Mueller just pulled a rope-a-dope on Trump by baiting Manafort into reporting back complete bullshit right up until Trump signed off on legally cutting his own throat I'm going to drink something large and strong in his honor. Because I'll need it when none of it matters and he just screams at the Twitter box until it goes away
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Nov 28, 2018 03:54
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Vasudus posted:Most likely the burn pit exposure will be what does me in. Ahhh, he hadn't built up the traditional layer of tar to protect and kill him later in life. loving sucks though. I have no desire to be checked out for poo poo. I still smoke a pack a day of nonfilters and loving oodles of hash and weed. I'll be damned if I don't die of emphysema related complications.
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Nov 28, 2018 03:59
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I mean, I think my memory problems are *probably* from cannabis use? Like Vasudus tho, I figure I'll die from burn pit exposure. I was at one of the sights and had to literally crawl thru burn pits to conduct security checks. Like, I started getting a sour stomach/nausea about 3 to 4 months after I got back home in 06, and it's slowly and steadily gotten worse over the years Dwanyelle fucked around with this message at 04:07 on Nov 28, 2018 |
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Nov 28, 2018 04:01
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Vasudus posted:Consequently, this is why the military health system is making GBS threads their pants because there's a strong possibility that people who are continually exposed to subconcussive blasts (like say, any gunfire at all but especially 7.62+) might run the risk of developing CTE. This is going to sound silly, but I've looked into this rather a lot for personal reasons, and it is very well known these days that even small concussive injuries cause brain damage way beyond what you'd think. Personality altering on first blow - that's the consensus. (Personal reason: Long time ago, I lived on a horrid council estate in the UK that basically had no police - ended up in a fight with a local gang due to them selling drugs outside my house, this ended up with me getting a mortar chucked through an open window to my house, and I *just* about remember getting blown out the back door of the kitchen). That hurt.
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Nov 28, 2018 04:03
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The most common signs of a neurological disorder that head injuries would give you are headache, memory problems, and mood swings. Common issues associated with PTSD include memory problems and mood swings. Common side effects to everyday medications, both OTC and prescription include headache, memory problems, and mood swings. Common side effects to energy drinks include headache, memory problems, and mood swings. It's hard as gently caress to pin down in military populations, doubly so because once they leave the defense health side of things they're either 100% gone forever, or enter the veterans health side which doesn't really talk to the defense side. It's a goddamn nightmare. Hexyflexy posted:This is going to sound silly, but I've looked into this rather a lot for personal reasons, and it is very well known these days that even small concussive injuries cause brain damage way beyond what you'd think. Personality altering on first blow - that's the consensus. Blast injuries absolutely. Those are concussive injuries. In that particular example you quoted, I was talking about subconcussive blasts, which is The New poo poo. Vasudus fucked around with this message at 04:08 on Nov 28, 2018 |
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Nov 28, 2018 04:06
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If it moves us closer to railgun rifles and space lasers, then lets push that boulder.
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Nov 28, 2018 04:10
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Hey Vas, regarding head injuries and the like, what about blood chokes? Are they less dangerous than actual impact injuries, can they cause long term damage?
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Nov 28, 2018 04:11
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FAUXTON posted:https://twitter.com/emptywheel/status/1067599342083735552 mueller loving owns
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Nov 28, 2018 04:11
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TF CURES GENERATOR posted:Hey Vas, regarding head injuries and the like, what about blood chokes? Are they less dangerous than actual impact injuries, can they cause long term damage? From what I've read, probably not. It seems to be about a blast shattering a lot of small blood vessels in your head - maybe that does but I'd doubt it. At least not in the same way.
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Nov 28, 2018 04:14
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TF CURES GENERATOR posted:Hey Vas, regarding head injuries and the like, what about blood chokes? Are they less dangerous than actual impact injuries, can they cause long term damage? Yes, your kink can in fact cause brain damage. Lack of oxygen can cause ischemia which leads to death of brain tissue or even a stroke. edit: this is also why the military is squeamish on researching this poo poo. The answer might very well come back that we can't really do combatives training ever again, which obviously won't fly, which means that they have to develop a method for testing, evaluating, treating, and most importantly compensating for this poo poo. Vasudus fucked around with this message at 04:20 on Nov 28, 2018 |
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Nov 28, 2018 04:15
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I would worry more about my own blast exposure causing long term personality changes in myself but I've essentially rebuilt my entire personality twice now due to the grand journey of life so it's largely moot.
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Nov 28, 2018 04:17
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Don't do the chokey strokey, kids
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Nov 28, 2018 04:18
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Vasudus posted:I would worry more about my own blast exposure causing long term personality changes in myself but I've essentially rebuilt my entire personality twice now due to the grand journey of life so it's largely moot. I'd go with Vas on this one, your brain is pretty delicate - you only get one of them.
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Nov 28, 2018 04:19
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TF CURES GENERATOR posted:mueller loving owns There's other posts from Wheeler pointing out other things that suggest Mueller aka "guy who prosecuted gotti and noriega and is now prosecuting the dumb combo of both" was doing exactly this.
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Nov 28, 2018 04:20
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basically youth sports built around contact are dead man walking as rich people slowly realize that your kids brain getting mushed during its formative years isn't conducive to success
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Nov 28, 2018 04:43
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How bad is soccer? Also hockey is probably the next to go after football - in fact hockey may go first because it requires even more money.
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Nov 28, 2018 04:46
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hobbesmaster posted:How bad is soccer? whoknows (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5674664/)
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Nov 28, 2018 04:49
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hobbesmaster posted:How bad is soccer? Hockey destroys your body, but there are relatively few head injuries to the point that they pretty much all carry suspensions for the hitting player. Going to have to go look at some stats now to see if this is just anecdotal from watching a ton of hockey.
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Nov 28, 2018 04:49
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Basically every sport is a risk, some are more than others. A lot of focus is on football due to the popularity, and the fact that the NCAA/NFL have deep enough pockets to care about co-funding research that they then bury.
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Nov 28, 2018 04:49
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hobbesmaster posted:How bad is soccer? Taking a header can potentially do damage but who knows they've never stopped play for a real injury
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Nov 28, 2018 04:49
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Any kind of sport or physical activity is going to incur some risk of damage. That's fine. We care if what you're doing is way beyond the normal wear and tear of living. This is Ronaldo demonstrating how to not get hurt in soccer. 
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Nov 28, 2018 04:55
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The most common winter sport associated with TBI is snowmobiling. Because people hardly ever wear a helmet for it, and risk Busey-ing themselves. edit: I should also note that my background is not medical in nature. I did research, policy, and education for four years. So there's limits on what I can reliably answer, or how much detail I can get into when talking mechanics. Vasudus fucked around with this message at 05:15 on Nov 28, 2018 |
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Nov 28, 2018 04:55
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Hexyflexy posted:Any kind of sport or physical activity is going to incur some risk of damage. That's fine. We care if what you're doing is way beyond the normal wear and tear of living. A stiff breeze knocks that fucker over.
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Nov 28, 2018 04:59
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Vasudus posted:The most common winter sport associated with TBI is snowmobiling. Because people hardly ever wear a helmet for it, and risk Busey-ing themselves. Any thoughts on if the increased blood pressure when lifting particularly heavy weights could be a higher risk? I've only ever popped a blood vessel in my eye but the not so natural pros seem to turn into fountains of blood at times. Disclaimer noted.
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Nov 28, 2018 05:28
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I've sounded myself so much that my penis shoots blood like a laser should I go to teh VA or what
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Nov 28, 2018 05:29
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At amateur soccer levels lax refereeing means that some teams make a habit of bodychecking you but headbutting and the sort of head-on, whiplashing impacts of contact football are rare. The most common head injuries would be two player clashing heads when jumping up for posession of a high ball. I've seen two players that I can recall losing conciousness for short periods. However, I believe there is some evidence that habitually heading the ball is bad in the same way as boxing is writ small. Certainly the most painful impacts I've had on the field is taking a ball to the face.
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Nov 28, 2018 05:31
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EBB posted:When the superblight finally kills all the crops we're all equally hosed regardless of borders Fortunately that was the most unrealistic part of Interstellar. Also with regard to there being fewer Monarch butterflies around that's largely because herbicide resistant crops allow farmers to have few to no milkweed in there fields these days which the Monarch requires to survive. Fewer milkweed = fewer Monarchs. On the other hand the no-till methods allowed by herbicide resistant crops are WAY better for the soil and massively reduce erosion. Interestingly I have seen it theorized that there were only so many Monarchs in the first place because large scale agriculture allowed the type of milkweed they prefer to thrive and that their populations were probably much lower a couple hundred years ago. Unfortunately nobody was really keeping track back then so we can only speculate. Also as someone posted earlier they're definitely a case of people only caring about pretty animals while we ignore a thousand other less glamorous species to die off with little concern.
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Nov 28, 2018 05:34
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Jaguars! posted:However, I believe there is some evidence that habitually heading the ball is bad in the same way as boxing is writ small. Certainly the most painful impacts I've had on the field is taking a ball to the face. I read something about that a few years ago, and it wouldn't surprise me if we changed the rules to lessen the impact at some point. quote:I've sounded myself so much that my penis shoots blood like a laser should I go to teh VA or what Expect a phone call off the biowarfare division.
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Nov 28, 2018 05:35
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