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Skex posted:Once again you are projecting a strawman of what you think that I believe. Skex posted:Under a different administrative that tool can be used to save people. I totally agree that we need humane policies regarding people moving into and out of the country, but even if we went with a fully open border, in fact especially were we to do that, the ability to monitor crossings in order to ensure that we don't have people dying in the middle of the desert because they couldn't reach a water source. hmm yes, you sure are for open borders. thats why you wrote an essay making GBS threads on the idea and conflating open borders with unsecured borders Condiv fucked around with this message at 04:08 on Nov 28, 2018 |
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Nov 28, 2018 04:06
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AOC primarying away Chuck sets her up nicely for a 2028 run. Hire me, Democratic party of the 20s.
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Nov 28, 2018 04:08
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https://twitter.com/SenGillibrand/status/1067593295004663808?s=19 https://twitter.com/SenGillibrand/status/1067240341261164544?s=19 https://twitter.com/SenGillibrand/status/1067061795485958144?s=19
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Nov 28, 2018 04:08
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GreyjoyBastard posted:https://twitter.com/SenGillibrand/status/1067593295004663808?s=19 Either Gillibrand is working from a killer script or she's just really good at this whole "being left-wing" thing.
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Nov 28, 2018 04:10
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Twinty Zuleps posted:he said correctly lol do you enjoy being the token Republican in D&D? GreyjoyBastard posted:lol UN human rights observers on the border would make Trump and friends flip the gently caress out America, definitely a developed normal democracy and not a tin pot dictatorship with marginally better living standards for the upper slice of the population.
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Nov 28, 2018 04:11
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We arent squaring off with russia over Ukraine, we will let nato collapse though.
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Nov 28, 2018 04:13
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https://twitter.com/CBSThisMorning/status/1067043359565451265 the biggest issue i have with this clip is him saying we have to "minimize" the level of force being used. second biggest is him saying trump's "on the wrong side of decency on this issue". he should be using stronger language than that
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Nov 28, 2018 04:14
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Fritz Coldcockin posted:Either Gillibrand is working from a killer script or she's just really good at this whole "being left-wing" thing. Sanders is still my first choice in 2020 but I appear to have become DnD's designated Gillibrand booster which, you know, fits pretty well with my whole pathological optimist thing
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Nov 28, 2018 04:20
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Lightning Knight posted:lol do you enjoy being the token Republican in D&D? if she really wanted to stir poo poo, Babs could actually directly and personally make a human rights complaint / invitation to the UN I want this now
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Nov 28, 2018 04:22
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Bernie also defended ice. He sucks rear end, his son too.
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Nov 28, 2018 04:23
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Yo, the simple rule folks: Are they talking about process or are they talking about justice? Giving a poo poo about the process over outcomes is The Wrong Answer no matter whom it comes out of.
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Nov 28, 2018 04:34
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cr0y posted:We arent squaring off with russia over Ukraine, we will let nato collapse though. I mean, either NATO is gonna get us into ww3 within the next few months or maybe we should just admit it's a relic and let it die. Like, I'm not a fan of the idea of going into nuclear winter over a loving eastern bloc border dispute so I'm fine with 'let it die' but this dust up is literally what NATO is supposed to prevent and it's not, maybe we can stop all the posturing and massive defense contracts now
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Nov 28, 2018 04:34
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sexpig by night posted:I mean, either NATO is gonna get us into ww3 within the next few months or maybe we should just admit it's a relic and let it die.
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Nov 28, 2018 04:40
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Condiv posted:hmm yes, you sure are for open borders. thats why you wrote an essay making GBS threads on the idea and conflating open borders with unsecured borders No I didn't conflate the two I very specifically said that even if we were to adopt an open border policy that securing the border so that we know who and what is coming and going is still a valid concern. I also stated that there isn't sufficient public support for open borders for it to be a winning issue. Or more specifically that the idea is a political loser. Only 7% of Americans support open borders a slightly hirer percentage support more immigration as long as there is work available. But even that only gets to 43% support for generally liberal immigration policies but that's not open borders You can call me all the names you want, you can project whatever strawman you want it's not going to change the politics of the question.
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Nov 28, 2018 04:44
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Virtual 4 seat advantage in the senate. By 2020, the Federal Judiciary will be around 35% 40 year old fascists.
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Nov 28, 2018 04:47
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sexpig by night posted:I mean, either NATO is gonna get us into ww3 within the next few months or maybe we should just admit it's a relic and let it die. NATO only needs to survive two more years. A normal president would credibly threaten to fulfill our treaty obligations. I don't think Russia is going to outright annex Ukraine, Putin is probably just idly curious to see what he could get away with. "Provoke a fight at sea and take a small ship = not much other than Trump threatens to maybe cancel a meeting with Putin? Interesting." Trump probably had to be berated and have his arm twisted behind closed doors to even do that much.
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Nov 28, 2018 04:50
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mcmagic posted:Virtual 4 seat advantage in the senate. By 2020, the Federal Judiciary will be around 35% 40 year old fascists. thank god we made the responsible choice in 2016
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Nov 28, 2018 04:50
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Lol, wasn't even close. Good job, Mississippi.
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Nov 28, 2018 04:50
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https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1067623816921272325
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Nov 28, 2018 04:51
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FlamingLiberal posted:Trump has no interest in NATO and if there is an attack on a NATO member I can't imagine we will support the rest of NATO. Yea but none of the other member states seem to have any desire to get involved to curb Russian expansion. Which, again, fine, 100% good we're not trying to start WW3 over a border dispute, but if NATO really is this complete for show alliance that's designed to not have any reason to act as long as Russia keeps it's expansionism to the Approved Eastern Bloc Buffer Zone that isn't part of the group proper it's probably for the best we let it die.
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Nov 28, 2018 04:52
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Skex posted:No I didn't conflate the two I very specifically said that even if we were to adopt an open border policy that securing the border so that we know who and what is coming and going is still a valid concern. There is not a significant number of politicians and no national politicians advocating open borders. Allowing putative asylees in and evaluating their claims is not open borders, and not placing a high priority on deportations is also not open borders. Hard-core strict (and probably illegal) immigration policy is a loser. Trump went all in on stopping the invading brown horde and the voters rejected his argument rather decisively.
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Nov 28, 2018 04:52
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https://twitter.com/Popehat/status/1067607432132648960?s=19 Mueller absolutely set this as a trap. E: https://twitter.com/emptywheel/status/1067609238241988608?s=19 cr0y fucked around with this message at 04:57 on Nov 28, 2018 |
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Nov 28, 2018 04:53
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I read through this three times, and huh?!? I’m usually not this perplexed by Trump speak.
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Nov 28, 2018 04:54
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Rigel posted:NATO only needs to survive two more years. A normal president would credibly threaten to fulfill our treaty obligations. I don't think Russia is going to outright annex Ukraine, Putin is probably just idly curious to see what he could get away with. "Provoke a fight at sea and take a small ship = not much other than Trump threatens to maybe cancel a meeting with Putin? Interesting." Trump probably had to be berated and have his arm twisted behind closed doors to even do that much. I mean, Obama was willing to 'fulfill our treaty obligations' in everything but full on 'welp war time' and it led to neo-nazis and repression replacing...russian ethnonationalists and repression...Yaaay NATO, big win.
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Nov 28, 2018 04:54
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sexpig by night posted:Yea but none of the other member states seem to have any desire to get involved to curb Russian expansion. Which, again, fine, 100% good we're not trying to start WW3 over a border dispute, but if NATO really is this complete for show alliance that's designed to not have any reason to act as long as Russia keeps it's expansionism to the Approved Eastern Bloc Buffer Zone that isn't part of the group proper it's probably for the best we let it die. It is not a "show alliance" under most presidents. It is right now, but I do believe Hillary as well as the last 5 presidents would have all met a credible threat of invasion of a NATO ally with a military buildup and a promise to defend. Russia would have believed that promise and backed off.
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Nov 28, 2018 04:55
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sexpig by night posted:I mean, Obama was willing to 'fulfill our treaty obligations' in everything but full on 'welp war time' and it led to neo-nazis and repression replacing...russian ethnonationalists and repression...Yaaay NATO, big win. Are you seriously arguing that Obama being serious about the NATO alliance led to Trump's win and the rise of American nazis? Because that is a stupid argument.
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Nov 28, 2018 04:56
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Rigel posted:Are you seriously arguing that Obama being serious about the NATO alliance led to Trump's win and the rise of American nazis? Because that is a stupid argument. no my dude I mean the fact that the Ukraine literally has a government infested with actual neo-nazis that rose from the Crimea clusterfuck
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Nov 28, 2018 04:58
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Edmund Lava posted:I read through this three times, and huh?!? He's saying that Brenda Snipes, who was in charge of voting in Broward County and already resigned her loving position after the shitfuck republicans won the goddamn race, voted 300 times because she's crooked. Again, she's resigned. Both republicans won their contested races. All of that is good for him! And he still can't keep his shitspigot closed.
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Nov 28, 2018 04:59
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cr0y posted:https://twitter.com/Popehat/status/1067607432132648960?s=19 How does the trap work?
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Nov 28, 2018 04:59
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sexpig by night posted:no my dude I mean the fact that the Ukraine literally has a government infested with actual neo-nazis that rose from the Crimea clusterfuck Fair enough
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Nov 28, 2018 05:00
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skex, you focus so much on terrorists coming in over the boarder, so my question is: when has that ever happened before? what is the scenario where that would even happen? i find it to be in the realm of dangerous nat-sec self-wanking fantasy to me, terrorist attacks are much more likely to be as clandestine as possible, which means as little "sneaking" as possible. just coming in and overstaying a visa; not being someone that would be recognizable enough to have to hide in the first place. the idea of some sort of mass infiltration over the boarder is much, much more unlikely. it just seems completely unrealistic; the subject of fiction, not reality
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Nov 28, 2018 05:01
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I agree that president Hillary would 'back it up' and all but the question we really do need to ask is 'do we think that's GOOD though?' Like, what happens when we back up the threat and Russia shoots back? Trump's a fuckin moron who can't find Belarus on a map but him asking 'am I really meant to be ok with saying I'll send my people to die for fuckin Belarus at the drop of a hat' wasn't really a wrong question. Alliances like NATO are extremely imperialist relics of a time when we were 100% willing to turn the planet to glass and maybe it's ok to say those are actually bad even if our bid wet president says it too.
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Nov 28, 2018 05:01
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big fan of undermining the concept of treaties, it owns when countries can agree to anything and then just not do it with no consequences, apparently
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Nov 28, 2018 05:02
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Rigel posted:It is not a "show alliance" under most presidents. It is right now, but I do believe Hillary as well as the last 5 presidents would have all met a credible threat of invasion of a NATO ally with a military buildup and a promise to defend. Russia would have believed that promise and backed off. What could go wrong?
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Nov 28, 2018 05:03
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Lightning Knight posted:I am willing to commit to being on record as in favor of open borders, free movement of people, and against the existence of the security apparatus as it currently exists and in any form that will lead to it being a tool of white supremacy and capitalism. I'm not in favor of open borders, but I'm all for easily obtained legal residence, free movement within the US (and back/forth to home country), freedom to work in the US (and pay taxes to the US for any income earned here), and am against the existence of a federal immigrant enforcement task force. We could easily have the IRS track immigrant residency when they file their taxes and, should the need to arrest someone arise, file complaints with the secret service which can then coordinate local law enforcement. Deportation should only be a punishment for a violent crime and and would have to be handed down by a judge. Not a kangaroo immigration court that reports to the DOJ, the Judge who presides over the case in which they were convicted.
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Nov 28, 2018 05:04
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corn in the bible posted:big fan of undermining the concept of treaties, it owns when countries can agree to anything and then just not do it with no consequences, apparently my dude sometimes treaties are bad I'm sorry you had to find out this way but it happens.
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Nov 28, 2018 05:04
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Skex posted:No I didn't conflate the two I very specifically said that even if we were to adopt an open border policy that securing the border so that we know who and what is coming and going is still a valid concern. What the hell does anyone mean by "Open Borders?" I never heard that term before Trump and other Republicans used it to justify crackdowns on all kinds of immigration regardless of legality. It gives people the impression of having no customs or passport checks and just letting BAD HOMBRES come in to seduce our pure white daughters.
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Nov 28, 2018 05:05
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Edmund Lava posted:I read through this three times, and huh?!? https://twitter.com/fordm/status/1067624742629376001
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Nov 28, 2018 05:05
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sexpig by night posted:Yea but none of the other member states seem to have any desire to get involved to curb Russian expansion. Which, again, fine, 100% good we're not trying to start WW3 over a border dispute, but if NATO really is this complete for show alliance that's designed to not have any reason to act as long as Russia keeps it's expansionism to the Approved Eastern Bloc Buffer Zone that isn't part of the group proper it's probably for the best we let it die. ukraine is not part of nato, nato is meant to defend its member state and it's unironically legit to have buffer states between russia and nato
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Nov 28, 2018 05:06
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also guys, border clashes/skirmishes happens literally all the time, there isn't gonna be a war
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Nov 28, 2018 05:06
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