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STAC Goat posted:I mean, its arguably a production screw up to have multiple words possible. But it wasn't anything against any player. Everyone had to guess the right word. Carl just happened to be the one to guess a wrong one that fit. It's still a screw up because nobody would have guessed unless they had a logical word (or a grossly misspelt one). And everyone's focused on their own blocks, you're not looking at other people's stacks unless you're helplessly lost. If Perception wasn't a valid word, Carl would never have called on Probst. If that didn't happen, Alison and Davie wouldn't have looked over at Carl's stack and gotten the hint. So it's a complete screw up by production and they should honestly have given Carl the win.
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Nov 29, 2018 07:44
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STAC Goat posted:And Yeah, however it works out this is a very good season and a very interesting Final 8. There's not one of them I'd flat out call a "dud" right now. Even Angelina. Alison is basically a dud, I can't recall her doing anything. Maybe the producers issue was more with the weather conditions.
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Nov 29, 2018 07:46
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Allison seems to be a pretty well-respected person on the island, but she's also been at the whims of better-situated players since the merge so I'm not sure what she has to take credit for at this point. STAC Goat posted:Wasn't there some buzz that the producers hated this season for some reason? I was wondering about that too. Its been pretty solid throughout.
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Nov 29, 2018 07:51
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I think the idea that no one looks at anyone else's blocks unless attention is drawn like asking Jeff to check is kind of a big leap. I mean, maybe I'm just unscrupulous or insecure or something but lost or not I'd be peaking at people's stuff if just to get a sense if I'm way off base. Like, ultimately there's 1 answer designed for the puzzle. Jeff's not just checking your spelling. Its definitely a little screwy that there was a second possible word but I'm sure a clever person could have word jumbled some previous puzzles into something coherent. In the end Carl just didn't get it right so eh. But as established last week I kind of take a "the game is designed to screw you so rules lawyering ain't gonna get you much" approach. Vernacular posted:Allison seems to be a pretty well-respected person on the island, but she's also been at the whims of better-situated players since the merge so I'm not sure what she has to take credit for at this point. Yeah, Allison definitely doesn't have the resume to win right now but I wouldn't call her a dud. She seems like a pretty good social player who is in good with most of the island. And we saw her making the David connections pre-merge and targeting Dan and thinking strategically. And she seemed key in that Strike Force thing. She just made the wrong alliance choices and ended up screwed. She said as much in this episode. She had opportunities and choices and she made the wrong ones so now she's at other's mercy. She's not getting an All Star spot from me or anything but I don't think she's a dud. She's got strategy and social skills and she could still ruin someone's game and maybe even pull off an end run. It wouldn't shock me. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 07:56 on Nov 29, 2018 |
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Nov 29, 2018 07:52
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Alison is about as good as Brenda or Andrea or most of the other returnee female players that always get booted mid merge. She's just not as flashy or proactive.
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Nov 29, 2018 08:00
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Yeah, I'm not talking her up. I just don't think she's some floater or goat or something. She's playing, she's just made a couple of crucial mistakes. But the Carl eviction shakes stuff up enough that I think everyone (except maybe Angelina) has a theoretical path.
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Nov 29, 2018 08:05
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usually whenever i hear "producers were not high on this season" that comes off to me as code for "a woman won this one."
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Nov 29, 2018 09:30
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This season continues to deliver hard. Those episodes worked great as a two parter into how Carl hosed his own game. It's rare that they get to go that in-depth into this so I found it really interesting. In other news: Christian talking Alec into submission is everything  Nick is looking more and more like the winner every episode. With that idol and bigger threats out there he's looking set. Angelina gets more and more ridiculous and I can't wait for her final tribal performance. I'm really glad that Gabby realises she needs to take Christian out. I don't think he'd be bitter about it either cause he's such a logical guy he'd get why she had to do it.
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Nov 29, 2018 09:57
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Carl was robbed.  That's a production gently caress up.I hope Angelina tries to win favor every week from now on. She's become a fun goat.
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Nov 29, 2018 10:10
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i feel like alison is doing a lot to Survive but not enough moves to Win, but at the same time with how everything is unfolding i think this could be another season where it's less about Moves and more about relationship with the jury. look who is getting stacked up there. it really does feel like this is one of those seasons where if she doesn't go soon, and with how everything split off today, and her narrative since the Dan episode, she could just slide right into the final three and be a dark horse to win over the jury if the other two are just people who put more work into The Game than building bonds.
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Nov 29, 2018 10:11
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i also love how probably everyone in this thread can agree angelina from the onset of the merge is 100% being dragged to the end regardless of whoever else gets there
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Nov 29, 2018 10:11
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STONE COLD 64 posted:i feel like alison is doing a lot to Survive but not enough moves to Win, but at the same time with how everything is unfolding i think this could be another season where it's less about Moves and more about relationship with the jury. look who is getting stacked up there. it really does feel like this is one of those seasons where if she doesn't go soon, and with how everything split off today, and her narrative since the Dan episode, she could just slide right into the final three and be a dark horse to win over the jury if the other two are just people who put more work into The Game than building bonds. Allison winning an Allison/Gabby/Angelina final 3 doesn't seem that impossible actually
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Nov 29, 2018 10:15
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Rarity posted:Allison winning an Allison/Gabby/Angelina final 3 doesn't seem that impossible actually i think with how everything is shaping out she has a better shot than any David outside of Christian.
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Nov 29, 2018 10:26
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I think Alison easily loses to Nick. Davie might beat her too, depends on how the rest of the game would go.
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Nov 29, 2018 11:25
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I think these are the power rankings right now based on who's left: Christian Nick Davie Allison/Kara Gabby Mike Angelina
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Nov 29, 2018 11:31
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UltimoDragonQuest posted:Carl was robbed. It's definitely a gently caress up. I kind of feel like they should have done a Jeopardy and afterwards say "the judges realize Carl's answer was a legitimate if unplanned solution, so here is a second immunity necklace tonight" That would have been a fun twist
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Nov 29, 2018 13:29
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STONE COLD 64 posted:usually whenever i hear "producers were not high on this season" that comes off to me as code for "a woman won this one." was thinking this exact same thing
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Nov 29, 2018 14:22
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ApplesandOranges posted:Maybe it's because both episodes were back to back but I found Gabby kind of hypocritical? She blasts Carl for telling Kara about the vote plan, because she was close to Alec. Then she gets uppity about people not telling her about the Alison plan because she was close to Alison. Gabby's point was don't tell people outside your alliance about the vote. Kara was not in their alliance, Gabby was.
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Nov 29, 2018 14:24
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ApplesandOranges posted:It's still a screw up because nobody would have guessed unless they had a logical word (or a grossly misspelt one). And everyone's focused on their own blocks, you're not looking at other people's stacks unless you're helplessly lost. What the hell, challenge design team? Google “scrabble word finder” and punch in your letters next time and see what comes up.
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Nov 29, 2018 14:28
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Rarity posted:Allison winning an Allison/Gabby/Angelina final 3 doesn't seem that impossible actually If Gabby can get Christian (and the other power Davids) out in a minimally backstab-y fashion and finagle her way to the end with those 2, I think she probably wins it. That's a heavy resume coupled with a compelling David-to-Goliath narrative arc. But yeah who knows, maybe Allison or Kara "Michelle Fitzgerald" their way to a win. They've been kinda slimy though, pretty much just voting however the people in power have been voting since the merge. I would prefer a Gabby win at this point, despite her annoying attitude. I still think Nick and Davey have played enough of clean-yet-potent under the radar games for one of them to probably win, I'd guess Nick because of the idol. There's a decent amount of room to operate for whoever that is between the inevitable Christian-Gabby distraction and the other one of them getting voted out (I don't think they both make F4). The Carl vote felt like more of a reaction to one individual's ostentatious show of power, and I could see them not necessarily being the next two targets in a series of Pagongings. Wild stab at power rankings: 1) Nick 2) Davey 3) Christian 4) Gabby 5) Kara 6) Mike 7) Allison 8) Angelina 4-7 though is kind of a crapshoot imo Vernacular fucked around with this message at 14:44 on Nov 29, 2018 |
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Nov 29, 2018 14:35
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STONE COLD 64 posted:i also love how probably everyone in this thread can agree angelina from the onset of the merge is 100% being dragged to the end regardless of whoever else gets there
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Nov 29, 2018 14:35
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Fast Luck posted:I love how after Alec and Kara put votes on her she’s just been gleefully huddling with the Davids, smug as a bug in a rug, coming up with elaborate rice negotiations, clearly pleased as punch with herself and blissfully unaware her win equity is pretty much shot. Between the rice and the jacket I’m really amused by how much strategy she’s putting into things not related to her placement in the game, to her detriment in the game even. I love her. Her displays of intellectual one-upsmanship at tribal council are weirdly endearing. Loved Mike's reaction when she dug herself a deeper hole with another tryhard astute comment at the last TC. Vernacular fucked around with this message at 14:55 on Nov 29, 2018 |
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Nov 29, 2018 14:43
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I'm not sure where people are drawing this mysterious Production Information from in this particular instance, but if they're right... Production's opinion on a season is generally more a referendum on the outcome rather than the season as a whole, or even week to week. They see the game fundamentally different than we do; they watch it play out in real time knowing they will then have to construct narratives from everything that happened. Sometimes those narratives are very clearly Not What They Wanted. Kaoh Rong is generally well regarded by fans, but Production hates it because the Michele win kind of flies in the face of Aubry's story, the story they actually wanted to tell and the most compelling story of the season. HHH on the other hand was reviled by fans, but production loved it because the Hard Working Tough Taking Cowboy Marine Family Man won, and it's easy to build a soaring ode to CBS's conservative middle class audience out of that. So if production really does seem down on the season, you probably have to go to opposite world, and start crossing out people in order from the most glowing edit to the least.
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Nov 29, 2018 15:37
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Did anyone else catch Alison saying that, since Alec's gone, she's the biggest challenge threat in the game? I about did a spit take when she said that
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Nov 29, 2018 15:48
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Haha yes! And I believe that was AFTER she couldn’t get across the rope. But then Mike White went on to call her Wonder Woman so idk?
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Nov 29, 2018 15:51
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Spergatory posted:I'm not sure where people are drawing this mysterious Production Information from in this particular instance, but if they're right... Production's opinion on a season is generally more a referendum on the outcome rather than the season as a whole, or even week to week. They see the game fundamentally different than we do; they watch it play out in real time knowing they will then have to construct narratives from everything that happened. Sometimes those narratives are very clearly Not What They Wanted. Kaoh Rong is generally well regarded by fans, but Production hates it because the Michele win kind of flies in the face of Aubry's story, the story they actually wanted to tell and the most compelling story of the season. HHH on the other hand was reviled by fans, but production loved it because the Hard Working Tough Taking Cowboy Marine Family Man won, and it's easy to build a soaring ode to CBS's conservative middle class audience out of that. So if production really does seem down on the season, you probably have to go to opposite world, and start crossing out people in order from the most glowing edit to the least. The problem is partly that production has to sell the audience on the winner. And if someone lasted 39 days and won the respect of the jury, you'd think they would be able to do that. They're the one that crafts us the story so that we can see the game that they do. If they really wanted us to love Michele or Natalie White as a winner, I can't imagine that they'd be unable to do so (and I think they did try, and the ~47 minutes they have each week is a little limiting). They're not without their biases, admittedly (Probst's biases towards certain archetypes is increasingly evident). Sometimes the season really does give them nothing to work with (there's only so many ways you can make a unanimous vote exciting), but otherwise they have the material, and what they leave out can tell just as much as what they leave in (Sarah's game in Game Changers was much more cutthroat than what they showed us, for example).
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Nov 29, 2018 16:21
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Honestly, I can imagine this might have been the worst season for the production team. I mean they had 1 player get hurt and pulled from the game on a boat coming back from a challenge. AND they had to pull all the players (and camera crew) off the island in the middle of the season due to a storm. Like, it's a good season with good game play, but some serious poo poo has happened this season.
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Nov 29, 2018 16:28
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Yeah I might be nuts but I thought I remember reading that Probst was down on this season and it's been the best season in a while so far so idgi I can't imagine that any amount of stupid poo poo after this point still can't erase the great moments we've already had
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Nov 29, 2018 16:31
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The game itself has been good so I don't know why they're so down on it really (cough a woman probably wins cough cough), but the editing also has been really really good. It's a complete 180 from last season. I think Sperg is right about production/Probst opinion being very winner-oriented, I mean it's why he loved that lovely Worlds Apart season, but I think that's why last season's edit was so bad too: we have a tie at FTC, let's make this the Dom and Wendell Show! Not that Dom and Wendell enabled by Laurel didn't run the game but they didn't even show us half the players. And the whole season suffers as a result. Kind of makes me wonder what a Director's Cut of last season might look like and how much better it could have been.
Fast Luck fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Nov 29, 2018 |
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Nov 29, 2018 16:35
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The production dream would be if a male David won, so if I had to guess maybe a female Goliath wins... which at this point would probably be Kara or Alison. I love Angelina as a character but I can't see her winning right now. Honestly I think Gabon would have been one of the hardest seasons to edit. Sugar's Wild Ride dismantled most sense of balance in the game and neither Bob nor Susie were the most compelling characters no matter who would have won. Probst was also close to quitting after Gabon too. It's actually funny how a lot of people actually like Gabon because it was so off-the-cuff.
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Nov 29, 2018 16:40
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ApplesandOranges posted:The problem is partly that production has to sell the audience on the winner. And if someone lasted 39 days and won the respect of the jury, you'd think they would be able to do that. They're the one that crafts us the story so that we can see the game that they do. If they really wanted us to love Michele or Natalie White as a winner, I can't imagine that they'd be unable to do so (and I think they did try, and the ~47 minutes they have each week is a little limiting). I mean, I can see why you'd think so, but they can't invent things out of whole cloth. Too many people treat Survivor like a scripted series with a team of writers, but it's not. They can't make people say things they didn't say or do things they didn't do. Survivor doesn't have pickups or reshoots. It happens, they film all they can, then they take what they filmed and try to make 14ish episodes of story out of it. If someone gets out there and just isn't terribly entertaining or particularly involved in the gameplay, there's only so much they can do to make it seem otherwise.
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Nov 29, 2018 17:06
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I'm trying to remember the last season that Jeff raved about that was a total flop. Was it Mike Holloway's season?
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Nov 29, 2018 17:06
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Spergatory posted:I mean, I can see why you'd think so, but they can't invent things out of whole cloth. Too many people treat Survivor like a scripted series with a team of writers, but it's not. They can't make people say things they didn't say or do things they didn't do. Survivor doesn't have pickups or reshoots. It happens, they film all they can, then they take what they filmed and try to make 14ish episodes of story out of it. If someone gets out there and just isn't terribly entertaining or particularly involved in the gameplay, there's only so much they can do to make it seem otherwise. I don't disagree, and some people are just generally more interesting than others. But if they've played enough that the jury rewarded them for their gameplay, then they must have done something that the editors can use. Of course, if the alternative is that the other FTC person just went scorched earth and burned the jury (hi Russell), then there is only so much one can do. Lone Goat posted:I'm trying to remember the last season that Jeff raved about that was a total flop. Was it Mike Holloway's season? Probably HvHvH. Game Changers was also decently raved about (partly because they had to sell over half the cast as important people you should definitely come back to watch again).
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Nov 29, 2018 17:09
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Lone Goat posted:I'm trying to remember the last season that Jeff raved about that was a total flop. Was it Mike Holloway's season? ApplesandOranges posted:The production dream would be if a male David won, so if I had to guess maybe a female Goliath wins... which at this point would probably be Kara or Alison. I love Angelina as a character but I can't see her winning right now.
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Nov 29, 2018 17:14
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I absolutely love whenever they do the edit of christian rambling on and on and it all fading together. What an episode! I feel like the end of the season is going to be interesting because there's just so many people that probably just haven't done enough to win a FTC. It really does feel like it's Christian (way, way, way ahead of the pack), then Nick and Davie, then Kara, then everyone else with absolutely no shot. I can definitely (preview talk!) see why Gabby wants to start making Big Moves. 8 left, and with the new final four and playing his idol correctly, Christian only needs to slide his way through 2 more tribals (and make fire, probably--or win immunity). I wonder if there's an argument to start targeting FTC threats instead of challenge threats earlier post-merge now since the last time you have the opportunity to vote them out is with five players remaining?
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Nov 29, 2018 17:27
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I think we’re just in the part of the Survivor hype cycle where Probst recently oversold a mediocre season (36) so overcorrected by underselling this one. The same thing happened after 26 and everyone thought 27 and 28 were going to be terrible. Also count me in as someone who thinks there are no casting duds in the Final 8 or even in the season as a whole (maybe Jesssica and Bi?). Don’t forget in the Final 8 last season we had Chelsea, Sebastian, and Angela still in the game.
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Nov 29, 2018 17:35
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The thing with Christian is that he's well liked and has been surprisingly strong in challenges (I think him and Davie are the biggest immunity threats left, actually), but he hasn't actually done a lot. Gabby was the one who marshaled the votes for Carl. Davie, Nick and Carl were the ones who toppled the Goliath majority. He's almost always in the loop, but we haven't seen him actually lead the charge. Nick and Davie actually have a bigger resume, but Christian has more friends on the jury.
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Nov 29, 2018 17:39
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^ agreed, and I'm definitely looking forward to seeing Nick lay out his case if he does get theremancalamania posted:Also count me in as someone who thinks there are no casting duds in the Final 8 or even in the season as a whole (maybe Jesssica and Bi?). Don’t forget in the Final 8 last season we had Chelsea, Sebastian, and Angela still in the game. I just sat here at my desk, head in my hands, for a full two minutes trying to remember who Chelsea was, eventually giving up and googling. "Oh, her. Was that really last season?"
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Nov 29, 2018 17:43
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I would be terrified of Christian still being in the game with me for a lot of reasons Those Brochachos on the Jury are just itching to write his name down, for one
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Nov 29, 2018 17:45
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a cool moment from the show i just grabbed
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Nov 29, 2018 18:21
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