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Rarity posted:Please don't support the Salvation Army, they treat homeless people like poo poo Not Operator posted:They used to be insanely lovely to trans people too. As recently as last year, even. Really? Any links about that? I found one youtube video with comments under. This concerns me as I make a monthly donation.
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Nov 30, 2018 13:27
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XMNN posted:and? obviously the people who want a second referendum are almost entirely people who see it as a back door to canceling Brexit but if the public voted to cancel Brexit that would be democracy Jose posted:Labour should run with abandoning referendums forever in its manifesto
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Nov 30, 2018 13:28
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Pablo Bluth posted:The true undemocratic course would occur in the parallel universe where polls shows that the public is, without any doubt at all, against Brexit but it goes ahead anyway due to a three year old referendum result. The wishes of an electorate today always supercede the wishes of the electorate yesterday. So best of three forever then. And we should probably keep relooking at the irish abortion referendum too, I know a lot of people were glad their daughters would have safe medical care but those ~yesterdays electorate~ losers need to grow up. Looking forward to another Scottish independence rerun every few years too. Referendums aren't decisions about where to eat, they have weight and they need to be respected or they're just meaningless. Setting a precedent that would undermine every potential referendum from now until forever isn't some trifling little thing that can be beaten with a bit of clever rhetoric.
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Nov 30, 2018 13:31
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Rarity posted:Please don't support the Salvation Army, they treat homeless people like poo poo Aren't they homophobic as hell too?
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Nov 30, 2018 13:32
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Midnight- posted:My missus has the most annoying present logic ever.
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Nov 30, 2018 13:32
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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:Never; this one was basically a drunken wager by Cameron, completely half assed in every way, and a second referendum now is literally being argued for on the basis of us knowing what the hell we're actually voting for this time. This is why the argument about the current will of the people superseding the past will falls down. If you're only willing to revisit an issue when your side lost of course people are going to call it undemocratic. On the other hand if there really is a need to keep checking what the public want then that means referendums forever. As for a second referendum on the basis that now we all know what we're voting for, actually no we don't. The future relationship between the UK and the EU consists of twenty-odd pages of waffle. We only know the shape of the withdrawal agreement, a lot of which might never apply if a new trade deal supersedes it.
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Nov 30, 2018 13:35
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Borrovan posted:imo arguing about what's more "democratic" is a losing battle anyway, because the first referendum demonstrates pretty conclusively that democratic != good. Bollocks. Democracy built the NHS, democracy built the welfare state, Good poo poo doesn't get handed down from above it gets demanded from below and democracy is how that can happen without bloodshed. A democratic system can obviously be flawed but the basic concept is loving ace mate. Did everyone here turn into liberal technocrats overnight or something what's happening.
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Nov 30, 2018 13:36
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^^^ you're not even disagreeingMs Adequate posted:I think that's very much something we got right and, I argue, a huge factor in keeping our police malfeasence to a level of severity below that of America's; it's just not as easy to kill people with batons and boots than it is with a gun, eggshell skulls notwithstanding. One wonders if we'll start seeing fatal shootings where once we would have seen non-fatal kickings.* Hey America has non-fatal kickings too https://twitter.com/notjessewalker/status/1068322548914491394 Zalakwe posted:Why not? Blaming it on other people has been working wonders in politics for years, possibly forever. It would need to be married up with a positive message as well. It won't work because a) people have to admit they were not only wrong, but fooled by someone manipulating them, and b) the big con that was used to trick them is... overspending on a campaign, which nobody cares about, and they sure as hell won't say it influenced them into making a bad choice People already have strong opinions about the EU without knowing anything about it, opinions about immigrants without caring that they're prejudiced or absorbing lies spread by people with an agenda. They don't care if they're not based in facts - remember, people are actually more likely to double down when faced with evidence that they've been misled. The only thing that will work is if people want to cancel their vote, and for many Leave voters there's no sign of that at all
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Nov 30, 2018 13:39
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Midnight- posted:My missus has the most annoying present logic ever. This is funny as hell. What's an example? Like do you ask for a video game and get a different video game or is it "I'd really like this specific model of chainsaw" and she gets you one that's not powerful enough for your needs or by an inferior brand or whatever? I only ever get money because at some point my relatives decided that asking me to name a bunch of CDs or books or games I'd want would just confuse them. "Really want Uada's Cult Of A Dying Sun" "where the gently caress am I finding that?" And that's how I ended up getting Megadeth's Youthanasia one year instead of Peace Sells or Rust In Peace. Also most of my relatives live far away so it'd just cost a lot to mail me poo poo, better just give me the dough, works out fine for me even if it does mean that on Christmas morn the only thing I'll have to open is a bunch of socks or something, because I never have enough socks. jabby posted:Say there was a second referendum and Remain won. How frequently should we then hold in/out referendums to make sure we are respecting the current will of the people rather than an old will of the people? As is the tradition with EU related referendums across the continent, until we get the result we want and then never again. Duh. Horseshoe theory posted:Aren't they homophobic as hell too? Yup. The Salvos are bad people.
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Nov 30, 2018 13:40
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Vitamin P posted:Bollocks. Democracy built the NHS, democracy built the welfare state, Good poo poo doesn't get handed down from above it gets demanded from below and democracy is how that can happen without bloodshed. A democratic system can obviously be flawed but the basic concept is loving ace mate. 'Democratic !=' doesn't necessarily mean 'Democratic = Bad', just that things decided democratically aren't inherently good by virtue of being decided democratically.
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Nov 30, 2018 13:40
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Vlex posted:Is Knifeback Mountain still a thing? There are some names in here I recognise from back then. My handle isn't the same here as on Steam tho. Yo. I don’t think it is. The mumble server might still be running but I don’t think the thread or anything is active. I last spoke to some people on there to find out about American Joe scamming some goons by saying he had cancer when he didn’t. Anyway he died of an aneurysm or something.
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Nov 30, 2018 13:41
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:Really? Any links about that? I found one youtube video with comments under. https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/12/13/salvation-army-says-theyve-evolved-on-lgbt-rights-but-were-not-too-sure-about-that/ This isn't entirely comprehensive as it doesn't mention the old policy of forcing gay homeless couples to break up if they wanted to stay in shelters, that trans woman who froze to death, their membership in a Ugandan organisation that was pushing for the death penalty for gay people. The SA saved my grandads life after his ship was sunk in ww2 but end of the day as a gay man, gently caress them, give your money to a real homeless charity
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Nov 30, 2018 13:42
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Midnight- posted:My missus has the most annoying present logic ever. I feel your pain! I hate buying clothes but my mother thinks I ought to want clothes and buys them for me (usually from a charity shop she works in). When I was young, I used to give her lists of heavy metal / proggie albums that I wanted but she wouldn't buy them for me. My sister, on the other hand, is a fashionista and loves clothes. My mother doesn't think she ought to want clothes but should have 'improving books' instead so that's what she gets. My dear late dad - I asked for some flower pots one year - I was living in a bedsit and had a windowsill. He got me this sort of ginormous space alien thing that was about 80cm diameter and filled up half my room. Funnily enough, my brothers used to get precisely what they asked for (and it was always their turn for 'the big presents' and when it was my sister and I's turn it was always 'economy christmas'). Queue weeping of bitter tears .... these things scar you for life. I know... wall....
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Nov 30, 2018 13:44
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After we Brexit, are we allowed to campaign to rejoin or would that be ignoring the will of the people as decided in 2016? Democracy is a daily thing that will occur until the sun swallows the earth or we make ourselves go extinct. (It'll be the latter. We're a stupid species). Whatever happens it won't ever end the in/out debate and our EU relationship will change many times in the future.
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Nov 30, 2018 13:45
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Archaeology Hat posted:'Democratic !=' doesn't necessarily mean 'Democratic = Bad', just that things decided democratically aren't inherently good by virtue of being decided democratically.  , but yeah, this. Good things come about because the people demand them, but people demanding something doesn't make it good.e: ^^^ nah people should totally campaign for good things all the time, but on the basis that they're actually good, not chasing some nebulous concept of democracy as if that's the be-all-and-end-all. It's intellectually dishonest to campaign for a second referendum on the basis of "more democracy is inherently good", but totally good to campaign for "gently caress Brexit", even if I think it's counterproductive. Borrovan fucked around with this message at 13:50 on Nov 30, 2018 |
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Nov 30, 2018 13:45
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Midnight- posted:My missus has the most annoying present logic ever. I do this for my partner but it's because he's absolutely awful at doing the bare minimum research and will ask for something without realising every single review says it fell apart instantly. Surely the best way of cancelling Brexit would be the Tories deciding to do it. That way no Brexit, and they get all the blame!
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Nov 30, 2018 13:49
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In general it's a fair bet that any religious organization is gonna be a bunch of moralizing twats even if they provide a service. Which is all the more annoying when they squat in the position of that service provision and hoover up money that could go to better organizations.
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Nov 30, 2018 13:50
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OwlFancier posted:In general it's a fair bet that any religious organization is gonna be a bunch of moralizing twats even if they provide a service.
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Nov 30, 2018 13:52
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OwlFancier posted:In general it's a fair bet that any religious organization is gonna be a bunch of moralizing twats even if they provide a service. Which is all the more annoying when they squat in the position of that service provision and hoover up money that could go to better organizations. We're all moralizing assholes as well (gendered insults are bad), but it's OK because we have better morals. Willie dee excluded.
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Nov 30, 2018 13:54
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Archaeology Hat posted:'Democratic !=' doesn't necessarily mean 'Democratic = Bad', just that things decided democratically aren't inherently good by virtue of being decided democratically. Borrovan posted:I was about to Yeah I should have phrased that better, my point wasn't that every democratic choice is inherently good, it's that democracy is required for the good things to be able to happen at all. So weakening the method of getting good things just because it's currently giving you a bad thing is counterproductive if you broadly want more good things to be possible.
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Nov 30, 2018 13:56
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Miftan posted:We're all moralizing assholes as well (gendered insults are bad), but it's OK because we have better morals. Willie dee excluded. True but generally we would not propose things like a welfare state that only applies to good communists. Being moralizing is something you can do secondarily to making sure people don't die.
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Nov 30, 2018 13:57
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OwlFancier posted:True but generally we would not propose things like a welfare state that only applies to good communists. Well, no, because that would make us bad communists and people.
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Nov 30, 2018 13:58
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minema posted:Surely the best way of cancelling Brexit would be the Tories deciding to do it. That way no Brexit, and they get all the blame! There is definitely a party political element to tories and blairites explicitly saying they want Corbyn to lead the second referendum campaign. Even if, and actually especially if, Remain would win a second vote, as unlikely as that is, the face of that campaign will be absolutely despised by maybe a third of the country. Labour getting suckered into leading a "peoples vote" would be a perfect outcome for the tories.
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Nov 30, 2018 14:00
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baka kaba posted:It won't work because a) people have to admit they were not only wrong, but fooled by someone manipulating them, and b) the big con that was used to trick them is... overspending on a campaign, which nobody cares about, and they sure as hell won't say it influenced them into making a bad choice That isn't the angle. That would be far too personal an attack. It's not you have been lied to it's "we" or "Britain" has. It's not even about Brexiteers but "the Government" "the few" or something nebulous like that. Deploy some numbers/case studies, All good (but only half the message). I think the other half is probably real stories about immigrants contribution to society. Anyway I have been running campaigns a long time but this is just first instincts, I can't claim to have it all planned out. Outside of any nuance about how you pitch it my actual point is we have won the rational argument hands down but we have completely failed to get emotional. I suspect that if we had a white board in front of us we would agree on more than you think. Zalakwe fucked around with this message at 14:19 on Nov 30, 2018 |
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Nov 30, 2018 14:00
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Nice gesture https://twitter.com/iconbooks/status/1068473889246887936
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Nov 30, 2018 14:01
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:I hate buying clothes but my mother thinks I ought to want clothes and buys them for me (usually from a charity shop she works in). When I was young, I used to give her lists of heavy metal / proggie albums that I wanted but she wouldn't buy them for me. As a teenager I gave my mother a Christmas wishlist including F♯ A♯ ∞ by Godspeed You! Black Emperor and Those Who Tell the Truth Shall Die, Those Who Tell the Truth Shall Live Forever by Explosions in the Sky and god bless her she actually walked into HMV and asked someone for them the things i put that woman through and yes I was a pretentious little poo poo I make no claims otherwise
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Nov 30, 2018 14:04
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Angepain posted:As a teenager I gave my mother a Christmas wishlist including F♯ A♯ ∞ by Godspeed You! Black Emperor and Those Who Tell the Truth Shall Die, Those Who Tell the Truth Shall Live Forever by Explosions in the Sky and god bless her she actually walked into HMV and asked someone for them They're good albums tho, it's not really your fault if post-rock titles suck rear end
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Nov 30, 2018 14:06
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forkboy84 posted:This is funny as hell. What's an example? Like do you ask for a video game and get a different video game or is it "I'd really like this specific model of chainsaw" and she gets you one that's not powerful enough for your needs or by an inferior brand or whatever? It varies. Last year I needed one of things was a phone mount/holder for my car. Its impossible to choose because they're all cheap Chinese tat so my mate recommend me the same one he bought. Sent her that, she got me a completely different one, same price but it attached to the air vents which I specifically didn't want as it would block the temperature controls (something I'd told her before too). Her one had slightly higher reviews, so its better! One year I needed a coat and found one I'd wanted on sale. Nothing special but I'd tried it on in the shop and liked it. She got me a different one that didn't fit anywhere near as well and that I'd already skipped past as I didn't like it as much. Same things happened on birthdays with jeans, running trainers etc. One year I asked for one of those slim, card holder wallets, specifically because it was..slim. She got me a big fat one that can hold loads of change "as its more useful!" I never have any money on me at all. If she was trying to push me into wearing something fashionable or something at least it would make sense. But its not that. The stuff she chooses is all very similar, but normally its something I'd already seen and decided i'd preferred something else for whatever reason. She just gets excited thinking shes done something great, found something better, and I'll be really happy.
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Nov 30, 2018 14:10
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Angepain posted:As a teenager I gave my mother a Christmas wishlist including F♯ A♯ ∞ by Godspeed You! Black Emperor and Those Who Tell the Truth Shall Die, Those Who Tell the Truth Shall Live Forever by Explosions in the Sky and god bless her she actually walked into HMV and asked someone for them I can understand being embarrassed to like Explosions in the Sky and their bag of post-rock cliches, but F♯ A♯ ∞ (& GY!BE in general) is still great.
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Nov 30, 2018 14:10
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Midnight- posted:She just gets excited thinking shes done something great, found something better, and I'll be really happy. Sounds like she is poo poo at presents but lovely otherwise.
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Nov 30, 2018 14:12
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Failed Imagineer posted:They're good albums tho, it's not really your fault if post-rock titles suck rear end Yeah, this.
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Nov 30, 2018 14:12
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Zalakwe posted:Sounds like she is poo poo at presents but lovely otherwise. Pretty much.
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Nov 30, 2018 14:14
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baka kaba posted:^^^ you're not even disagreeing https://twitter.com/HaitiInfoProj/s...ingawful.com%2F
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Nov 30, 2018 14:20
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WhatEvil posted:Yo. I can still see the group in my Steam list and there are a ton of people in it, but nobody in chat and I don't think I've seen any notifications or activity from it in yonks. I made this, if anyone wants to join and play some games sometime. https://steamcommunity.com/groups/UKMT
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Nov 30, 2018 14:20
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Gonzo McFee posted:Just remember that the vast majority of leave voters said they'd endorse Brexit even if it meant close family members lost their jobs and everything went to poo poo around them. I think you are confusing ‘even’ and ‘because’ here. For olds, making their adult children into their economic dependents is just another way of turning back the clock. Austerity was ok for a while at doing this, but it was just a gateway drug to the real stuff. Brexit, No deal Brexit, or whatever some clever guy will manage to invent that is worse.
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Nov 30, 2018 14:35
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Bardeh posted:I can still see the group in my Steam list and there are a ton of people in it, but nobody in chat and I don't think I've seen any notifications or activity from it in yonks. I made this, if anyone wants to join and play some games sometime. Co-operative Stardew Valley, for a glorious agricultural commune? 
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Nov 30, 2018 14:36
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Vitamin P posted:... it's that democracy is required for the good things to be able to happen at all. NM. Zalakwe fucked around with this message at 14:59 on Nov 30, 2018 |
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Nov 30, 2018 14:41
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We're going to see my family in the US for Christmas so I'm dithering between getting the missus a bottle of Caol Ila or waiting till we get back and nabbing the Spyro remake in January when the price drops. Last year we bought each other Iron Maiden tickets.
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Nov 30, 2018 14:46
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RE: Games Discord seems to be where a lot of people are at for voice comms etc, and there is a UKMT Discord. https://discord.gg/RgUqEwk That should still be a valid link to use to join your fellow Marxists
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Nov 30, 2018 14:50
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Zalakwe posted:That isn't the angle. That would be far too personal an attack. It's not you have been lied to it's "we" or "Britain" has. It's not even about Brexiteers but "the Government" "the few" or something nebulous like that. Deploy some numbers/case studies, All good (but only half the message). I think the other half is probably real stories about immigrants contribution to society. Well sure, if you can abstract it enough that there's distance between "we should cancel this result because of irregularities" and "I voted for it and it's what I wanted", so people don't have to acknowledge any contradiction or think about any implications for their own judgement, that's a much easier sell But you still have the issue that brexit itself is the other side of this coin, and people still want it to happen. They'll say they wanted it to happen regardless of what some foreign spooky money wanted. Giving people an out only works if they want to take it Something like evidence that the vote was hacked (and Leave actually got fewer votes) might be enough to sway people who are more angry about Johnny Foreigner stealing BRITISH elections than the EU, but I can't see breaking overspending rules as hitting the same brain buttons. Plus then you have the risk that it'll go the other way, that it'll look like elites trying to steal brexit based on some legal technicality so they can override the people's decision, etc etc Course these are just my reckons - plus I'm talking more about Leave voters in general, the vote was so close that if you're just talking about winning you only need to push a few people over. And Remain voters who think it should go ahead out of respect for democracy are gonna be easier to convince with this stuff e- oh yeah, how do you see us having won the rational argument? Stuff about taking back control, Brussels making our laws, free to make our own trade agreements, local deprivation down to immigrants taking all the jobs and housing and healthcare - those are all rational arguments, they're just based on lies. But if you accept them, they seem like good reasons to vote Leave baka kaba fucked around with this message at 15:11 on Nov 30, 2018 |
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Nov 30, 2018 15:06
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