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This and Punjab are the only two episodes I've enjoyed on a "Doctor Who" level if that makes sense. As fantasy showrunner, I would literally only change 2 things. As mentioned before having a chimney not have smoke maybe isn't the best mystery to get the story going, and the Solitract exposition dump scene needed to be changed. It felt like the doctor just pulled that out of thin air without verifying the info. "This is what it is and now we act on it to move the plot forward" But why is it that thing? To me, it is always better to be shown how the Doctor figured it all out instead of a soliloquy of macguffins in an exposition dump. I don't know, I guess some people don't mind that sort of thing but it bores me and always takes me out of whatever it is I'm watching. An Ounce of Gold fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Dec 3, 2018 |
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Dec 3, 2018 15:21
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I missed last week's because I was down with the plague (and have yet to go back for it on Amazon) but goddamn this week's was wonderful.
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Dec 3, 2018 15:46
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An Ounce of Gold posted:This and Punjab are the only two episodes I've enjoyed on a "Doctor Who" level if that makes sense. This season is exposition dump central. It's one of its biggest weaknesses
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Dec 3, 2018 15:58
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spog posted:What, 'being able to act' is a weird standard? I don't think 'being able to act' is a weird standard but I found her performance and accent completely believable so I found her a good choice. If anything, the one weird bit was they did a bit of that thing where being blind is secretly a superpower (at least in the mirror realm) because it meant she couldn't be fooled by the Solitract. Also, as others said above, it just becomes exposition central after they go through the mirror. But Graham's confrontations with 'Grace' were so good, it carried the expo dumps up to the Frog scene. Which was so weird it was an amazing climax. I love that they used a rubber frog and not just a CGI one too. Makes it that more strange.
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Dec 3, 2018 17:09
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Yeah, I thought the actress playing Hannah was just fine, and I didn't even really get a vibe of "blind people have superpowers" at the end there, I think mostly because the episode went to great lengths to show that her actual superpower was being very smart and having no illusions about what the people around her were like. Like she didn't believe her father would abandon her for no reason, but she had no problem believing that he'd created a fake threat to keep her with him because she knew drat well that he'd been broken by his wife's death (and how that all neatly ties up into the idea that he's the one who fears being abandoned in that relationship). And I really appreciated that they didn't feel the need to spell out why Ryan jumped immediately to the conclusion that her father had abandoned her. And I loved the little moment that Yaz immediately taking Hannah's side wasn't a "gently caress your cynicism, Ryan" moment, it was something she'd been trained to do as a police officer. I agree, the exposition dump when the Doctor figured out the stuff about the Solitract was a bit jarring, but it was all essential information and I'm not sure how you communicate all that without an infodump of some kind, and the Doctor spouting off gibberish about a new alien or phenomenon is hardly unprecedented for this show. So many wonderful quiet little moments in this episode, like the Doctor being quietly upset that YET AGAIN she had to say goodbye forever to a friend, and how utterly wrecked Graham looked walking back to the TARDIS at the end (and that final moment between Graham and Ryan). A Good Episode.
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Dec 3, 2018 17:42
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I thought Graham was going to crumple a little more at the end there. I probably would have completely fallen apart. 
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Dec 3, 2018 18:23
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The_Doctor posted:I thought Graham was going to crumple a little more at the end there. I probably would have completely fallen apart. I was honestly wondering if he wasn't going to go with them there at the end.
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Dec 3, 2018 18:27
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There was nothing wrong with blind girl's performance.
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Dec 3, 2018 19:00
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docbeard posted:I was honestly wondering if he wasn't going to go with them there at the end. Yeah, before the "grandpa" moment at the end I was wondering if they were about to write Graham out of the show. Three companions is feeling like too many and he's the obvious one to cut from a story and probably budget standpoint. The blind girl was fine. Her accent seemed a little dodgy, but of normal quality for a TV show. I thought the Doctor/Solitract conversation should have been longer at the end. What they had felt too impersonal an interaction to come away as "friends" in anything more than a cynical sense. The pacing of the show has been frustrating that way all season. Way too much dialogue that feels like a placeholder that should have been fleshed out in the final draft. I also thought that this was the first episode of the season that really felt like proper Doctor Who. Definitely my favorite so far.
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Dec 3, 2018 19:17
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Can someone make a gif of 13 walking away and blowing a kiss to the universe frog? Loved that moment now that it has context from the clip we saw in the many teasers leading to this series. The urge to change my avatar to that is strong as hell.
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Dec 3, 2018 21:33
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I hate to be that person, btw, but the concept of the universe being a frog has been done before…  I can’t wait for the theories about the Doctor and the Master’s kismesis.
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Dec 3, 2018 21:44
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I did enjoy the lampshading on the fact the Solitract had never ever been mentioned before. 13: I've told you about the Solitract before, right? Yaz: This is literally the first time you've ever said that word.
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Dec 3, 2018 23:00
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Regarding the exposition this season, it's especially jarring because the show has turned into a procedural of sorts, with lots of emphasis on searching for and picking up information. You'd think, based on Broadchurch, that that might be something Chibnall and his writers would pay attention to. But nope. Everybody splits up and looks for clues and then the threat reads its Wikipedia entry to the crew at around the 42 minute mark.
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Dec 4, 2018 00:16
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Graham  Lots of debate on if this season is good or not, but I call it a win since I'm watching Doctor Who weekly again instead of giving up on the show.
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Dec 4, 2018 01:59
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It's fine that you SJW types want to talk about representation and the blind Norway actress or whatever, but your callous racism is plainly revealed when I see that nobody here has mentioned that the Frog-Universe was not played by an actual frog! There are plenty of hardworking frog actors out there so sayng "you can't find one in the UK" in 2018 is gross. It's insulting that they gave this role to CGI and denied true amphibic representation! If I were British I would be writing a sternly worded letter to the BBC and demanding a refund of my license fee!  
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Dec 4, 2018 02:44
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Astroman posted:It's fine that you SJW types want to talk about representation and the blind Norway actress or whatever, but your callous racism is plainly revealed when I see that nobody here has mentioned that the Frog-Universe was not played by an actual frog!
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Dec 4, 2018 02:50
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Astroman posted:It's fine that you SJW types want to talk about representation and the blind Norway actress or whatever, but your callous racism is plainly revealed when I see that nobody here has mentioned that the Frog-Universe was not played by an actual frog! 
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Dec 4, 2018 03:59
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The_Doctor posted:I thought Graham was going to crumple a little more at the end there. I probably would have completely fallen apart. As a typical dude who deals with real emotions very poorly, Ryan responding with a joke seemed less of a joke and more of an attempt to de-escalate. On one hand, it took away what probably would have been a tearjerker, but on the other hand I felt that it was quite nuanced writing between characters who are struggling to relate on a deeply emotional level.
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Dec 4, 2018 09:39
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Best episode of the season by a wide margin here. I was really hoping to see things shift to the humanoid form/surroundings most likely to keep the Doctor there and to see that subverted was a really good choice, even if I didn't get my fanservice that way. It's also real fun when it leaves me wanting the Doctor to communicate in at least some way with the villain and stay friends after they've been forced apart. I have to give it a minor demerit for taking the frog universe from Homestuck though.
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Dec 4, 2018 10:57
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Weirdly, while I did love Homestuck, the frog reminded me much more of Dead Like Me. Probably because of the actual frog used as much as the 'totally mundane form for an ancient fairytale creature' part.
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Dec 4, 2018 11:53
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Astroman posted:It's fine that you SJW types want to talk about representation and the blind Norway actress or whatever, but your callous racism is plainly revealed when I see that nobody here has mentioned that the Frog-Universe was not played by an actual frog! It was clearly a puppet, and it's a fight for even puppets to get cast these days. You're only asking for another minority to be marginalised further while CGI gets to Pting it up with their precisely rendered buttholes. Nobody asked for Stitchtroid buttholes, but we get them anyway for CGI award bait. Besides, I found the frog's performance to be quite...ribbetting. Edit: A frog, on a wooden chair? It was almost a toadstool! AndyElusive posted:Can someone make a gif of 13 walking away and blowing a kiss to the universe frog? Oh that is so gonna be used in retrospectives for maximum tearjerk. The end of 13's run, the next time the series 'goes on extended hiatus'...et cetera...
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Dec 4, 2018 11:55
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LividLiquid posted:It never ceases to amaze me that this joke — taking reasonable expectations and conflating them with ridiculous exaggerations like identifying as an attack helicopter — is like, the only joke the anti-pc crowd knows. Be fair, they have one other joke, the one where they say "Oh, but you're objectively wrong!" in imitation of criticism. When you don't laugh at either of those jokes, they get to accuse you of being humorless!
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Dec 4, 2018 14:11
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Bicyclops posted:Be fair, they have one other joke, the one where they say "Oh, but you're objectively wrong!" in imitation of criticism. They only know how to punch downwards when they're making 'jokes', because anything else requires empathy.
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Dec 4, 2018 14:27
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VivaLa Eeveelution posted:extended hiatus Someone should ask Jodie to read the "worlds out there" speech from "Survival" at a convention. She'd do an amazing job with it.
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Dec 4, 2018 14:57
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CommonShore posted:I think it's tied for me between this and The Demons. I like them for different reasons, and there's basically no overlap in what appeals to me about them. I know we shouldn't empty quote, so I'll just say 
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Dec 4, 2018 15:37
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thrawn527 posted:I know we shouldn't empty quote, so I'll just say Mods and admins are mostly okay with empty quoting these days
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Dec 4, 2018 16:36
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I don’t care what anyone says, the Third Grandma is still my favorite.
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Dec 5, 2018 02:44
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Chokes McGee posted:I don’t care what anyone says, the Third Grandma is still my favorite. Shameless flirt though 
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Dec 5, 2018 02:54
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Finally saw the episode. I still like Demons of the Punjab better, but that was some sweet, classic Who style fun. It was just WEIRD. The little moth cave un-universe with the Gaimanesque barterer guy and his balloon lantern, the frog universe friend, the whole literally through the looking Glass thing. I couldn't deal with it every week, but it's great to just engage in some trippy fantasy. The actual Graham and Ryan moment was nice too, and I actually didn't think it felt too forced when Ryan called him grandad, just like we all knew he was eventually going to do. I don't know what to expect from the finale, but I hope it takes some risks.
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Dec 5, 2018 04:32
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Bicyclops posted:Finally saw the episode. I still like Demons of the Punjab better, but that was some sweet, classic Who style fun. It was just WEIRD. The little moth cave un-universe with the Gaimanesque barterer guy and his balloon lantern, the frog universe friend, the whole literally through the looking Glass thing. I couldn't deal with it every week, but it's great to just engage in some trippy fantasy. Graham’s going to find his pocket watch, which is odd, because he doesn’t remember owning a pocket watch...
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Dec 5, 2018 05:57
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Chokes McGee posted:I don’t care what anyone says, the Third Grandma is still my favorite. It's not that the Doctor had seven grandmas, it's that she had one she knew for half of her life
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Dec 5, 2018 06:57
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I love that cheesey frog puppet at the end. That was fantastic. Also that house looked so cozy, but isn't that what homes in Scandinavia look like?
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Dec 5, 2018 08:53
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Chokes McGee posted:Graham’s going to find his pocket watch, which is odd, because he doesn’t remember owning a pocket watch... On the one hand, I don't wanna lose Graham. On the other hand, I would like to see Bradley Walsh with a rubbish beard... 
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Dec 5, 2018 10:26
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The ending felt too rushed which is kind of a thing with this season. Because of this while I’m sure the “we are friends now” was supposed to be genuine it kind of seemed like the doctor just tricking the frog at the end. Otherwise this ep was fine but I’m missing some kind of underlying arch tying all these episodes together.
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Dec 5, 2018 10:49
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Jerusalem posted:On the one hand, I don't wanna lose Graham. Uh, her name was GRACE and she was AWESOME.
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Dec 5, 2018 11:01
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Avalerion posted:Otherwise this ep was fine but I’m missing some kind of underlying arch tying all these episodes together. The arc's more of an emotional one than a material 'Things Happening' arc; we've been seeing Ryan and (to a greater extent) Graham grappling with the loss of Grace, Graham and Ryan growing closer and being more willing to consider each other family, and Yaz learning to appreciate her own family even if they're occasionally weirdos. I'd also guess that they might be trying to make a thing out of 'Yaz proving herself a good police officer, using skills not often highlighted or congratulated by actual police work'. There's also been the ongoing theme of 'the bad alien isn't actually bad, just misunderstood' and to a lesser degree 'humans keep trying to kill a monster that's no longer dangerous or perhaps never was' (I think you might be able to stretch Kerblam into being part of that trend, too). Hard to say what that means, though.
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Dec 5, 2018 11:03
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Fil5000 posted:Uh, her name was GRACE Graham: Hey Doc, I just realized something. Doctor: Hmm? Graham: THESE SHOES FIT PERFECTLY!
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Dec 5, 2018 11:08
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Some belated gifs from The Witchfinders:           
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Dec 5, 2018 12:08
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BBC backed out of that Brexit debate (again don't ask, although if you're following British politics things have been pretty wild the last few days), so the finale should be at it's normal time 
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Dec 5, 2018 13:04
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Pesky Splinter posted:BBC backed out of that Brexit debate (again don't ask, although if you're following British politics things have been pretty wild the last few days), so the finale should be at it's normal time I think it's pretty funny that the beeb was actually allowed to go "You know what, this feels like it's going to be a lot of effort sorting it out, you go ahead and go with ITV". I mean, it makes sense as it's effectively a meaningless distraction for everyone involved and therefore not actually in the public interest, but still.
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Dec 5, 2018 13:15
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