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Dolash posted:How viable is the mid-point between the status quo and toppling Kyiv, taking Mariupol and all the intervening territory up to the land connection to Crimea, creating a contiguous land territory out of their official and unofficial gains? they would probably take only the areas with significant proportions of russian speakers, see this map https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_language_in_Ukraine#/media/File:Ukraine_census_2001_Russian.svg if they were planning on doing this, they would probably do something about the warlords in donbass and luzhansk first, so i wouldn't worry about an all-out invasion while they are still around.
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Dec 5, 2018 23:19
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Kyiv isnt the objective. Mariupol is. And will be the capital of novoryssia if russia is allowed to take it. Cutting off sea access for ukraine would create a kyiv rump state that relies on russia for shipping.
WAR CRIME GIGOLO fucked around with this message at 06:28 on Dec 6, 2018 |
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Dec 6, 2018 02:46
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Anyone have a good resource for reading up on the extreme right/neo nazis entering the Ukrainian government, military and police?
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Dec 6, 2018 05:23
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I hear their new prime minister really hates jews, you could start by reading about him
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Dec 6, 2018 05:39
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mila kunis posted:Anyone have a good resource for reading up on the extreme right/neo nazis entering the Ukrainian government, military and police? It’s not trivial to find a resource that faithfully discusses the matter, as Russia has put some serious effort into making it seem to that Ukraine has literal Nazi legions running the show. What you are after in the end of the day are specific individuals, since no parties in current government are fitting the bill you are after. Even the so-called Radical Party, they are generic right wing populists with strongly left-wing economical policies and neutral view on LGBT issues since Lyashko is totally and absolutely not gay.
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Dec 6, 2018 05:46
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Flavahbeast posted:I hear their new prime minister really hates jews, you could start by reading about him You mean Groysman who is Jewish? 
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Dec 6, 2018 05:49
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cinci zoo sniper posted:You mean Groysman who is Jewish? I think it was a lovely attempt at a joke to deflect away from the question about the influence of extreme right wing nationalism in Ukraine right now.
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Dec 6, 2018 05:50
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cinci zoo sniper posted:It’s not trivial to find a resource that faithfully discusses the matter, as Russia has put some serious effort into making it seem to that Ukraine has literal Nazi legions running the show. What you are after in the end of the day are specific individuals, since no parties in current government are fitting the bill you are after. Even the so-called Radical Party, they are generic right wing populists with strongly left-wing economical policies and neutral view on LGBT issues since Lyashko is totally and absolutely not gay. Well Svoboda is pretty much a far right party, but they have only 6 seats in Rada.
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Dec 6, 2018 05:55
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I'm just sayin, they seem awfully tolerant of jews given how often they're tarred as neo nazis by their large imperial neighbor: http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/03/28/most-poles-accept-jews-as-fellow-citizens-and-neighbors-but-a-minority-do-not/
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Dec 6, 2018 06:00
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Paladinus posted:Well Svoboda is pretty much a far right party, but they have only 6 seats in Rada. Yeah I managed to stumble into a parliament decomposition that left them out somehow. They are strictly a far right party.
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Dec 6, 2018 06:04
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The russians know they dont need to occupy more than the black sea to molodova stretch of land to make a country. Mariupol and crimea have enough economic capability to be worth while for russia. Heres a map for what russia hopes  Now russia needs to achieve a couple objectives in the black sea / mainland ukraine. They cannot simply walk to molodova from donetsk It needs to be a revolution of sorts. Harassing the ukrainian navy and seizure of patrol boats in the black sea allows russia to supply their militants accross the sea, less patrols in the water. Odesa and Kherson are 2 large russian objecrives. Kherson is probably priority 2. Securing the danube mouth. Odesa is priority 3. The whole objectjve is to be able to flow in russian artillery or heavy assets via the black sea but Russia already controls crimea splitting the sea in half, the long game is to keep ganking navy vessels, less navy less patrols to keep green men from deep penetrating into the country. This is why we saw the martial law they arent going to admit that they may have actually had an encrochment by russia. I dont know personally, but they know theres a need for new assets. Funny how shortly after ukraine purchased 2 cutters from America did russia capture 3 vessels. This is a chess move by putin. You buy 4 or i take 5 etc. It may be coincidental but i doubt it. Its literally an invasion 1 step at a time. Ukraines fleet is a real tiny one at best, they probably have so many holes in their nets that putin actually could walk military liasons into the country, bunch of guys in ukranian military drab just walk up the beach to cars waiting for them to drive into the country. Direct the revolution as russia has done in every other russian conflict. However a US naval vessel just steamed into the black sea. So poo poo could be going down but not fast.  https://www.defenseone.com/threats/2018/09/ukraine-building-mosquito-navy-fend-russia-us-help/151606/ https://www.npr.org/2018/11/26/670746252/ukraine-considers-martial-law-after-russia-seizes-its-ships-near-crimea Extremely serious threat of land-based operation against Ukraine." Poroshenko's rationale for imposing martial law https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-church/ukraines-security-service-raids-home-of-russian-backed-monastery-head-idUSKCN1NZ1I1?il=0 WAR CRIME GIGOLO fucked around with this message at 07:01 on Dec 6, 2018 |
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Dec 6, 2018 06:29
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Альтернатива Том Клэнси заметила
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Dec 6, 2018 07:55
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Rust Martialis posted:Альтернатива Том Клэнси заметила I hope so! Everything about this conflict just seems so dang stupid
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Dec 6, 2018 14:26
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Flavahbeast posted:I hope so! Everything about this conflict just seems so dang stupid If you want stupid, go a few threads back and find 70 page 2014 derail about impending apocalypse caused by U.S. retaliatory nuclear strike against Russia for violation of Ukrainian sovereignty. Mind you, 70 pages in like 8 hours.
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Dec 6, 2018 15:53
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cinci zoo sniper posted:If you want stupid, go a few threads back and find 70 page 2014 derail about impending apocalypse caused by U.S. retaliatory nuclear strike against Russia for violation of Ukrainian sovereignty. Mind you, 70 pages in like 8 hours. Ah yes, the derail that led to the no Tom Clancy chat in the Eastern Europe thread rule. Russia's desire to create this map and their ability to make it happen are two very separate things. Their success with Donbass and Crimea was creating the dissent from within. The further west they go the harder it gets for them.
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Dec 6, 2018 16:51
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Dolash posted:How viable is the mid-point between the status quo and toppling Kyiv, taking Mariupol and all the intervening territory up to the land connection to Crimea, creating a contiguous land territory out of their official and unofficial gains? Ukraine is not a small land mass. Kyiv is around 700km/435mi from the current unrest. Russia would have to be seriously ambitious to try and storm the capital. I worry about my friends in Odessa, tho 
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Dec 6, 2018 22:31
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Dirt Road Junglist posted:Russia would have to be seriously ambitious to try and storm the capital. They would. And VERY stupid. https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-army/2018/11/27/heres-the-us-military-footprint-in-the-black-sea-region/
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Dec 7, 2018 00:58
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Venezuela is amazing. quote:According to the president of Venezuela, sales for the national cryptocurrency El Petro will be introduced gradually according to the developed schedule. According to Maduro, Moscow has already received an offer to use Petro in the calculations.  https://www.rbc.ru/technology_and_media/06/12/2018/5c0969249a794784bd83b285?from=newsfeed
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Dec 7, 2018 03:57
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the power of blockchain
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Dec 7, 2018 05:35
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blyatchain
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Dec 7, 2018 05:42
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https://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-accuses-russia-blockading-kerch-strait-124423676.html?guccounter=1quote:MINSK, Belarus (AP) — Ukraine's defense ministry warned Russia on Friday that it will soon send navy ships through the Kerch Strait where Russia fired on and seized three Ukrainian vessels two weeks ago hugely stupid if true
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Dec 8, 2018 00:01
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Is it stupid? I think it's crucial, they need to come to a modus vivendi re. the strait, and if Russia keeps stopping Ukraine's vessels, it makes Putin in violation of international law. Ukraine has nothing to lose by maintaining the neutrality of Kerch, and a whole lot to lose by accepting Russia's unilateral assessment that the strait is Russian (which violates Russian ratified treaties)
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Dec 8, 2018 00:10
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Keeping the strait only costs Russia nothing if Ukraine lets them.
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Dec 8, 2018 00:24
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Don't think the next three boats Ukraine loses mark the point where it starts costing Putin something. International reaction to the last incident has been nil, no?
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Dec 8, 2018 05:52
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https://twitter.com/mhmck/status/1071393432277528582aphid_licker posted:Don't think the next three boats Ukraine loses mark the point where it starts costing Putin something. International reaction to the last incident has been nil, no? The Russian bots were quickly dispatched to convince the planet this is all a stunt by Poroshenko to boost his poll numbers before the election.
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Dec 8, 2018 14:23
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aphid_licker posted:Don't think the next three boats Ukraine loses mark the point where it starts costing Putin something. International reaction to the last incident has been nil, no? If Ukraine were to actually fight back this time it would be a bit of a change at least.
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Dec 8, 2018 15:56
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Osama Dozen-Dongs posted:If Ukraine were to actually fight back this time it would be a bit of a change at least.
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Dec 8, 2018 18:05
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Yeah I’m pretty sure Ukrainian Navy is something Latvian Coastal Guard could realistically present problems to.
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Dec 8, 2018 18:16
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If he means to imply that the protests in Paris are organised by Moscow, in all honesty, he should gently caress the right off. It's literally the same type of rhetoric employed by Russia during Maidan, where they said it was orchestrated by America.
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Dec 8, 2018 21:19
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Tht sounds like most of the rethoric used these days. That and "we are overwhelmed with all the
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Dec 8, 2018 22:50
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Yeah I’m pretty sure Ukrainian Navy is something Latvian Coastal Guard could realistically present problems to. They have ground based anti-shipping missiles.
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Dec 8, 2018 23:00
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Warbadger posted:They have ground based anti-shipping missiles. That was a joke about state of their ships, nothing else. The entire Latvian Coastal Guard is like 7 unarmed patrol boats.
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Dec 8, 2018 23:17
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Warbadger posted:They have ground based anti-shipping missiles. Theyre not going to use those in any invasion because russia is not going to DDAY odesa. Has to an astroturf uprising, russia would only move in ships if they coild do so without risking a shot fired. Aka "UKRANIAN PARTISANs definitely not paid gru mercs" occupy ship missile sites then the supplies roll in with no peering eyes.
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Dec 9, 2018 03:11
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Paladinus posted:If he means to imply that the protests in Paris are organised by Moscow, in all honesty, he should gently caress the right off. It's literally the same type of rhetoric employed by Russia during Maidan, where they said it was orchestrated by America.
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Dec 9, 2018 11:20
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Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer, or AKK for short, Merkel's successor at the head of the CDU, says that the EU should block Russian ships from their ports in punishment for Russia's blockade of Mariupol. https://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/block-russian-ships-from-eu-and-us-ports-merkels-heir-37583439.html
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Dec 9, 2018 12:51
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Little https://twitter.com/___Beardman____/status/1071451176904855552
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Dec 10, 2018 17:23
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https://twitter.com/Liveuamap/statu...port-week-49%2F
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Dec 10, 2018 18:01
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If mariupol is taken without heavy fighting welcome to hitler v2.
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Dec 10, 2018 18:03
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LeoMarr posted:If mariupol is taken without heavy fighting welcome to hitler v2.
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Dec 10, 2018 18:40
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