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Technowolf posted:Vigilus Previews: drat, looks like Deathwatch could use the Primaris bonus but not on Fortis Kill Teams? EDIT: Hah! Gravis Captains don't get the bonus either. Beer4TheBeerGod fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Dec 6, 2018 |
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Dec 6, 2018 20:47
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:drat, looks like Deathwatch could use the Primaris bonus but not on Fortis Kill Teams? Deathwatch are not a Space Marines detachment so they can't use the specialist detachment at all.
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Dec 6, 2018 20:49
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Booley posted:Deathwatch are not a Space Marines detachment so they can't use the specialist detachment at all. Oh yeah, the common keyword is "Adeptus Astartes" not Space Marines.
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Dec 6, 2018 20:50
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Maneck posted:I thought they already were very strong? Just obscure because their model line is ancient and not even carried in most local stores. Stronger. Pre-CA SoB don't scale at all with army size, so your best bet is to go with a small detachment of Celestine + one unit worth buffing with AoF.
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Dec 6, 2018 20:52
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:EDIT: Hah! Gravis Captains don't get the bonus either. Gravis Captains have the Primarus and Captain keyword so they should work.
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Dec 6, 2018 20:56
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Here is a  A Captain in Gravis Armour has the "Primaris" and "Captain" but not "Primaris Captain" keywords. Does the stratagem above apply to him? MasterSlowPoke posted:Gravis Captains have the Primarus and Captain keyword so they should work. That's my interpretation too. Sucks that Aggressors and Reivers don't get it.
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Dec 6, 2018 20:58
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:Here is a A normal primaris captain has PRIMARIS and CAPTAIN, not PRIMARIS CAPTAIN. It works fine for a Gravis captain.
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Dec 6, 2018 21:02
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LingcodKilla posted:
You should pick up one or more of the 4 cool new ork buggies, they'd look good with that army.
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Dec 6, 2018 21:19
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Two Beans posted:You should pick up one or more of the 4 cool new ork buggies, they'd look good with that army. It’s an all foot army. So no.
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Dec 6, 2018 21:27
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:A Captain in Gravis Armour has the "Primaris" and "Captain" but not "Primaris Captain" keywords. Does the stratagem above apply to him? Pretty sure that is the convention. It came up with the Chaos codices, where an effect applies to the keyword NURGLE DAEMON. Whereas some (all?) datasheets have NURGLE and DAEMON but not NURGLE DAEMON. It applies all the same.
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Dec 6, 2018 21:27
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Booley posted:A normal primaris captain has PRIMARIS and CAPTAIN, not PRIMARIS CAPTAIN. It works fine for a Gravis captain. I really should learn how to read.
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Dec 6, 2018 21:28
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:I really should learn how to read. To your credit, those keyword collisions are pretty ridiculous. Find new nouns, GW.
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Dec 6, 2018 21:39
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Zaphod42 posted:To your credit, those keyword collisions are pretty ridiculous. Find new nouns, GW. How so? The strategem says PRIMARIS CAPTAIN, which refers to things that have the keywords PRIMARIS and CAPTAIN. There's no instance of PRIMARIS CAPTAIN being a keyword.
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Dec 6, 2018 21:43
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Booley posted:Deathwatch are not a Space Marines detachment so they can't use the specialist detachment at all. Not directly related to the question but: How often do people run into Deathwatch armies out in the wild? They seem perfect for Kill Team but a whole army seems like it would get pretty boring.
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Dec 6, 2018 21:48
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Booley posted:How so? The strategem says PRIMARIS CAPTAIN, which refers to things that have the keywords PRIMARIS and CAPTAIN. There's no instance of PRIMARIS CAPTAIN being a keyword. Ah guess I misunderstood. I don't play SMs anymore so its all greek to me now.
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Dec 6, 2018 21:51
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Zaphod42 posted:Ah guess I misunderstood. I don't play SMs anymore so its all greek to me now. It is kind of a weird way to phrase it by GW (I would probably go with "Models with the keyword PRIMARIS and any of the following:") but they are at least consistent with the way they use it I guess?
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Dec 6, 2018 21:54
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Having a keyword system that both compounds single word keywords and also uses phrase keywords is not optimal. It requires users to know there's no such thing as a PRIMARIS CAPTAIN before they can figure out that that "PRIMARIS CAPTAIN" means "PRIMARIS" and "CAPTAIN". Players can and will figure it out, but that doesn't render the complaints about it spurious.
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Dec 6, 2018 22:02
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Or they could just put keywords in brackets or something such as: [NURGLE], [CHAOS], [DEATH GUARD]
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Dec 6, 2018 22:15
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There aren't any multi-word keywords other than specific army subfactions like CRIMSON FISTS that are extremely obvious, duders.
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Dec 6, 2018 22:40
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MasterSlowPoke posted:There aren't any multi-word keywords other than specific army subfactions like CRIMSON FISTS that are extremely obvious, duders. But reading comprehension is hard!
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Dec 6, 2018 22:44
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:Here is a Am I misunderstanding the question? The first part doesn't reference keywords, it's just stating the names of the units. Any of those units gain the Indomitus Crusader keyword.
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Dec 6, 2018 22:48
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Inspector_666 posted:Not directly related to the question but: How often do people run into Deathwatch armies out in the wild? They seem perfect for Kill Team but a whole army seems like it would get pretty boring. I play Primaris Deathwatch. They're pretty flexible and fun. Zuul the Cat posted:Am I misunderstanding the question? The first part doesn't reference keywords, it's just stating the names of the units. Any of those units gain the Indomitus Crusader keyword. So then Captains in Gravis Armour don't get it.
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Dec 7, 2018 00:21
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:I play Primaris Deathwatch. They're pretty flexible and fun. Maybe? I imagine they'll clarify if they meant for the Captain in Gravis Armor to take it. I lean toward no because they specifically put the exact names of units as they appear in the codex/data sheets in the list of those that get it.
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Dec 7, 2018 00:27
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I’ve got a primaris deathwatch army as well. A bunch of intercessor squads with aggressor/inceptor buddies, some captains and a librarian, a pack of deepstriking hellblasters, a chaplain dreadnought, and guardsmen for cheap bodies and extra CP. With the variable ammos and assorted stratagems it’s pretty flexible, and giving everyone assault bolters makes them surprisingly speedy. 3 attack sergeants with power swords make them kinda decent in combat too. Also a refreshingly easy color scheme after a thousand years of pain highlighting daemons. 
Badablack fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Dec 7, 2018 |
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Dec 7, 2018 00:35
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Zuul the Cat posted:Am I misunderstanding the question? The first part doesn't reference keywords, it's just stating the names of the units. Any of those units gain the Indomitus Crusader keyword. Keywords are in BOLD SERIFFED SMALLCAPS. Unit names are in regular text.
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Dec 7, 2018 00:40
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Bad news: it also says "Space Marines" and I wouldn't put it past GW to clarify that means "Codex: Space Marines only".
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Dec 7, 2018 00:41
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Zuul the Cat posted:The first part doesn't reference keywords, it's just stating the names of the units. Any of those units gain the Indomitus Crusader keyword. This is correct.
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Dec 7, 2018 00:42
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Using ‘space marine’ as a term is obnoxiously vague. It would be like making a formation for ‘heretics’.
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Dec 7, 2018 00:44
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A well-defined and above all limited dictionary/vocabulary is really helpful when writing documentation, rules don't seem that different?
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Dec 7, 2018 00:50
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Strobe posted:Bad news: it also says "Space Marines" and I wouldn't put it past GW to clarify that means "Codex: Space Marines only". Let me live my dream of Fortis Kill Teams with +1 attacks.
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Dec 7, 2018 01:03
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Strobe posted:Bad news: it also says "Space Marines" and I wouldn't put it past GW to clarify that means "Codex: Space Marines only". That's exactly what it means. Space Marine isn't a keyword or anything, the only place is shows up is in the vanilla codex in the name: Codex Adeptus Astartes: Space Marines. Non codex chapters don't get access to the detachments in Vigilus.
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Dec 7, 2018 01:23
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WhiteWolf123 posted:This is correct. Those are not unit names, those are keywords. The only thing on there that isn't a keyword is Space Marine.
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Dec 7, 2018 01:26
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Pendent posted:That's exactly what it means. Space Marine isn't a keyword or anything, the only place is shows up is in the vanilla codex in the name: Codex Adeptus Astartes: Space Marines. Non codex chapters don't get access to the detachments in Vigilus. That or they haven't revealed them.
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Dec 7, 2018 01:43
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Badablack posted:Using ‘space marine’ as a term is obnoxiously vague. It would be like making a formation for ‘heretics’. Its actually not, since its explicitly saying "Space Marines Detachment" which is defined in codex marines as a detachment where everything has adeptus astartes and a <chapter> derivative tags.
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Dec 7, 2018 01:51
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Unless they've doctored the table of contents preview, only codex chapters have specialist detachments, aside from the Ravenwing.
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Dec 7, 2018 01:54
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Artum posted:Its actually not, since its explicitly saying "Space Marines Detachment" which is defined in codex marines as a detachment where everything has adeptus astartes and a <chapter> derivative tags. Which is dumb in my opinion. MasterSlowPoke posted:Unless they've doctored the table of contents preview, only codex chapters have specialist detachments, aside from the Ravenwing. That kind of sucks, but the book already seems so content heavy that it's not surprising.
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Dec 7, 2018 01:57
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:Let me live my dream of Fortis Kill Teams with +1 attacks. So many rifle butts 
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Dec 7, 2018 02:05
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MasterSlowPoke posted:There aren't any multi-word keywords other than specific army subfactions like CRIMSON FISTS that are extremely obvious, duders. This would be a great point if it were true. Sab669 posted:Or they could just put keywords in brackets or something such as: [NURGLE], [CHAOS], [DEATH GUARD] Pretty good solution. Actually, GW already uses common separators for keywords on datacards, the problem is that they just don't bother with separators when invoking multiple keywords at the same time for effects.
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Dec 7, 2018 02:06
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Enlighten us with you are knowledge, Maneck. What multi word keywords are there besides obvious army names like BLACK TEMPLARS or T'AU EMPIRE? And what keywords do they cause confusion with? Someone who has painted armies and played as many games as you should know the answer.
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Dec 7, 2018 02:20
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MasterSlowPoke posted:Keywords are in BOLD SERIFFED SMALLCAPS. Unit names are in regular text. This is correct. I'm wrong, ignore my reading of the stratagem. That's cool then, since my list includes two gravis captains. I still wont take inceptors though. 
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Dec 7, 2018 02:24
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