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ZypherIM
Nov 8, 2010

"I want to see what she's in love with."

So holy war interacts in a weird way with colonies. In that you don't get the holy war CB on filthy pagans bordering your colonies. However if you start building a new colonial province bordering them, you once again have your holy war CB pop up.

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Nosfereefer
Jun 15, 2011

IF YOU FIND THIS POSTER OUTSIDE BYOB, PLEASE RETURN THEM. WE ARE VERY WORRIED AND WE MISS THEM

ZypherIM posted:

So holy war interacts in a weird way with colonies. In that you don't get the holy war CB on filthy pagans bordering your colonies. However if you start building a new colonial province bordering them, you once again have your holy war CB pop up.

It's technically still part of your country, so you have a direct border with them. It's also pretty dumb.

ZypherIM
Nov 8, 2010

"I want to see what she's in love with."

Well I mean the part that seems really weird is that you lose the claim when you get a colonial nation going. I get it that you don't control the colonial nation's provinces, but holy wars seem like the sort of thing that maybe should propagate down to your subjects. Or maybe make it some option on your vassal screen, and throw in some liberty desire if that seems too good to just have.

skasion
Feb 13, 2012

Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?
Holy war propagating through colonial vassals would make colonial expansion even more ridiculously easy than it already is

Sephyr
Aug 28, 2012
Huh, I had missed that. Gotta try starting a colony next to a juicy Central America/Spice Island local power, send a big fleet with some 2 buffed stacks, and just swallow half of the country for God it as soon as the ships are docked and fixed.

Roadie
Jun 30, 2013
The whole "the colony is yours, but the final province magically turns into the colonial nation's" thing is super hacky in a lot of its implications. If anything the colonies should be part of the colonial nation from the word go, but there's probably some programming limitation in the way of that.

ilitarist
Apr 26, 2016

illiterate and militarist

Koramei posted:

Yeah that was basically my reaction to navy automation, and that's a system that's actually a pain in the rear end to micro, unlike armies where it's only really a problem in the super late game or if you're doing dumb WC stuff. I think if the game is designed for it from the start it might work better though, and especially with how many loving provinces there are gonna be in (I assume) all the games going forward it might start to be more necessary.

I totally forgot that navy automation is in the game beyond help with transports. I think you can give order to blockade enemy country, right? Does this automation include anything about your fleets fleeing from enemy doomstack? If not then it sounds like the feature they've implemented for AI and then decided to give player a weaker version of it.

Groke
Jul 27, 2007
New Adventures In Mom Strength

Sephyr posted:

Huh, I had missed that. Gotta try starting a colony next to a juicy Central America/Spice Island local power, send a big fleet with some 2 buffed stacks, and just swallow half of the country for God it as soon as the ships are docked and fixed.

Yeah, it's dead easy to go from having a one-province colony in Central America to a full 10+-province colonial nation in a single war.

You're going to have to babysit them for a while though, there will be rebels and they suck at handling them themselves.

ilitarist
Apr 26, 2016

illiterate and militarist

skasion posted:

We have revanchism (certainly has to be high up on the list of most ignored features), but not irredentism

I'm sure if it would be released today devs would use their experience to make this feature much more relevant. Like adding a progress bar near your country's coat of arms in a top left and "Your revanchism is ticking down!" alert.

skasion
Feb 13, 2012

Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?

Roadie posted:

The whole "the colony is yours, but the final province magically turns into the colonial nation's" thing is super hacky in a lot of its implications. If anything the colonies should be part of the colonial nation from the word go, but there's probably some programming limitation in the way of that.

I don’t think it’s completely nonsensical for the colonizer to be able to fund colonies as well as the colonial nation, and because of how the game handles provinces and finances that means that control of it has to go to the colonizer (otherwise the colonial nation could run into hard times and cancel it to save money or something). It can lead to somewhat hacky stuff (obliterating colonial nations whenever they form as a native power so you never have to actually fight a serious colonizer for example) but I think it’s an ok design within the (highly abstracted) system.

Tahirovic
Feb 25, 2009
Fun Shoe
Does anyone have experience with how hard colonists get hit for developing provinces once they hit a certain level?

Groogy
Jun 12, 2014

Tanks are kinda wasted on invading the USSR
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/golden-century-feedback-changes.1133589/

TL;DR

quote:

Improve Development is now free feature
Transfer occupation is now free feature

ilitarist
Apr 26, 2016

illiterate and militarist
I am very glad those features are transferred into the base game.

Even if I don't care about people who play without DLC and balance I imagine it's a huge design and programming problem to support a game where such important features can be turned on or off. With Estates it was more of a thematical problem - it *feels* like Estates should be deeply integrated into internal politics but they were just a small unnecessary feature. Now they're in the base game and it's for the better even though they didn't get integration treatment they deserved (I expected them to be aware of missions, parliaments, institutions and so on but they only rarely concern themselves with anything, mostly through events and IIRC there's some parliament debate about them).

Hope now this means that Paradox model would be more like Stellaris, game-defining features would only be in paid DLC for a short time.

Dr. Video Games 0031
Jul 17, 2004


A sorely needed and much appreciated move.

People in that thread are referring to a "recent outrage." What got people upset about this again?

Groogy
Jun 12, 2014

Tanks are kinda wasted on invading the USSR
Portugal wasn't made into Prussia

If you missed it, the Iberians had made the Balkanites go :stare:

Groogy fucked around with this message at 10:56 on Dec 6, 2018

Tahirovic
Feb 25, 2009
Fun Shoe

Paradox Forum idiot posted:

What do those DLC owners get? I’m not happy with givibg content away for free that I paid for

He should get a new brain.

People whining about 2 year old DLC features being made free are idiots. Like you got your money's worth out of that already.

Maybe an other model would be to unlock features from DLC#3 with DLC#9 too, so you don't need to buy the 3 year old DLC and have the current ones unlock those features.

ilitarist
Apr 26, 2016

illiterate and militarist

Tahirovic posted:

People whining about 2 year old DLC features being made free are idiots. Like you got your money's worth out of that already.

I'm pretty sure it's a very insignificant minority. Completely irrational.

Guess they sue Bethesda over giving out Daggerfall for free, same for Red Alert, Starcraft 2 and so on and so on.

Groogy
Jun 12, 2014

Tanks are kinda wasted on invading the USSR
Also tons of people got banned for comments like "Galicians are not real people" etc.

Half-wit
Aug 31, 2005

Half a wit more than baby Asahel, or half a wit less? You decide.
Those two features are sorely needed in the base game...this is a good move.

It should never be the case that a new player googling "how do I fix X?" for a game gets results that require DLC.

In this case, the pertinent questions would have been:
How do I get an institution when I'm not near Europe? The answer being, improve development in one province; which (previously) would have been impossible without DLC.
How do I keep my war ally happy in the peace deal when I'm occupying provinces he wants? The answer being, transfer occupation; which (previously) would have been impossible without the DLC.

Deceitful Penguin
Feb 16, 2011

Groogy posted:

Also tons of people got banned for comments like "Galicians are not real people" etc.
Your changes are great groog. Wish you were still on CK2, too.

But if you share such titbits you gotta share links too

Poil
Mar 17, 2007

I misread that as improve development being free and thought that would be broken as gently caress. :v:

Groogy
Jun 12, 2014

Tanks are kinda wasted on invading the USSR

Deceitful Penguin posted:

Your changes are great groog. Wish you were still on CK2, too.

But if you share such titbits you gotta share links too

Comments like that get deleted

Rynoto
Apr 27, 2009
It doesn't help that I'm fat as fuck, so my face shouldn't be shown off in the first place.

Groogy posted:

Also tons of people got banned for comments like "Galicians are not real people" etc.

Wait why would anyone want to claim this.

Note: My only knowledge about Galicia is that it's in Spain.
E: Also legitimately curious.

Fellblade
Apr 28, 2009
I would assume it's because Spanish nationalism is having a revival in the face of the Catalonian attempts at independance, and also because those people are crazy.

Deceitful Penguin
Feb 16, 2011

Groogy posted:

Comments like that get deleted
you good people and don't let nobody tell ya different

Even though Iceland and the Faroe Islands still don't have they own tag/ideas

skasion
Feb 13, 2012

Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?
Iceland is a formable, but it has generic ideas which is some bull poo poo

If I ever get really sick of playing a nation and just want to see how the world pans out I force Iceland to be released with the console and switch to them. Good map vision and nobody attacks you because you are a garbageland 10000 miles from anything good

skasion fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Dec 6, 2018

Groogy
Jun 12, 2014

Tanks are kinda wasted on invading the USSR
You know you can just go into observe mode?

skasion
Feb 13, 2012

Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?

Groogy posted:

You know you can just go into observe mode?

Observe mode is crappy at actually observing anything since you don’t get either kind of alerts

Deceitful Penguin
Feb 16, 2011

skasion posted:

Iceland is a formable, but it has generic ideas which is some bull poo poo

If I ever get really sick of playing a nation and just want to see how the world pans out I force Iceland to be released with the console and switch to them. Good map vision and nobody attacks you because you are a garbageland 10000 miles from anything good
>:[ Hey!

Iceland not having Icelandic culture or its own ideas is a travesty, I agree, but I keep thinking I'd want to sit down and theorycraft their ideas and missions but I don't know how to set it so rulers are always greedy or tech penalties for being dim

It's the Faroese I'd love to have some kinda comically overpowered ideas and missions about world conquest or some such

Groogy
Jun 12, 2014

Tanks are kinda wasted on invading the USSR
Don't forget an idea for heart disease from all the inbreeding

Poil
Mar 17, 2007

+% death risk for rulers, generals, advisors and so on?

TTBF
Sep 14, 2005



skasion posted:

Observe mode is crappy at actually observing anything since you don’t get either kind of alerts

Have you tried Spectate mode?

Jazerus
May 24, 2011


Rynoto posted:

Wait why would anyone want to claim this.

Note: My only knowledge about Galicia is that it's in Spain.
E: Also legitimately curious.

galicia is the last remnant of the hispanian celts of the pre-roman era, at least nominally, so like the basques and catalans they're derided by castilian supremacists

Deceitful Penguin
Feb 16, 2011

Groogy posted:

Don't forget an idea for heart disease from all the inbreeding
Never heard of that being an issue in the Faroes and certainly wasn't here because of the whole church record thing. Though I do enjoy the idea of having much wider range of possible stats and dying earlier

I did always think that having Norway talking about Sagas was hilarious tho, so idk. What bothers me is that the only kinda missions I'd think would be interesting for such a tiny nation that would probably go colonizing would be if they could in some way cooperate and integrate into Native American society but uhhhh, I don't know how that would even work in EU4 since the game is fundamentally adversarial on almost every level as opposed to the other games where cooperation is beneficial to some degree.

Groogy
Jun 12, 2014

Tanks are kinda wasted on invading the USSR
Inhabitants at Färöarna have a genetic disorder affecting their circulatory system I believe. That was the reference I was making

Deceitful Penguin
Feb 16, 2011

Groogy posted:

Inhabitants at Färöarna have a genetic disorder affecting their circulatory system I believe. That was the reference I was making
I never knew that, like it isn't hard enough being a Danish crown possession without having to deal with that too

Tahirovic
Feb 25, 2009
Fun Shoe
At least they have an awesome metal band called Tyr.
Oh and flights from Copenhagen are actually subsidized.

Deceitful Penguin
Feb 16, 2011

Tahirovic posted:

At least they have an awesome metal band called Tyr.
Oh and flights from Copenhagen are actually subsidized.
No, the Faroes are lovely and I won't have anyone say different. I just really like the idea of making them like a semi-secret Jan Mayen or maybe try for a mission tree where you work with the natives rather than just invade and make colonial nations but uhhh, I don't really see how unless it would mean somehow creating a new, syncretic culture as part of it? Special personal unions?

Because as is, it's kinda weird how even if they manage to resist, they still can't really colonize or take north-american land :/

cool av
Mar 2, 2013

Seeing people complain in the PDX forums about features being made free is so disheartening. The game being improved for everyone is unacceptable because they paid and somebody else didn't.

Well, at least it's not nearly as prevalent as the more legitimate complaints about the "shallow" features prevalent in the last few DLCs.

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ZypherIM
Nov 8, 2010

"I want to see what she's in love with."

I'm sure this is way, waaaay down on the list of things to fix, but the fantasy new world empires based off the american religions are kind of hosed. They're unable to interact with their religion mechanics at all but they're still going on in the background, which ranges from not too big of a problem (inci) to literally unplayable (nauhatl gets doom activation every couple years). Which is too bad because I got an interesting world gen with the crimson empire right next to the obsidian empire and some minor nations not too far from either and that landmass being the closest to europe.

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