|
H.P. Hovercraft posted:when "clean eating" rules out frozen or canned vegetables it kinda reveals itself to be the class signifier it actually is this is weird to me because poor neighbourhoods in the city are full of fruit and vegetable shops, cash only, that sell fresh produce for next to nothing.
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2018 05:46
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 09:14 |
|
|
infernal machines posted:this is weird to me because poor neighbourhoods in the city are full of fruit and vegetable shops, cash only, that sell fresh produce for next to nothing. perhaps on where you're traveling within them, but there's probably many many blocks without them and things like food desert studies don't tend to count those cuz tim's fruit shop isn't going to be "visible" the way they do their studies
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2018 05:57
|
|
|
i'm generalizing from where i've lived, but even out in the suburbs it wasn't more than a 20 minute walk to one of the ethnic shops that had produce and usually some frozen meats. i realize not everywhere is like that, i'm just suprised if the gta is such an outlier in that respect
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2018 06:06
|
|
|
dear god, fishmech stymie & shaggar quoted each other... get under a doorway, hunker down!
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2018 06:11
|
|
|
ComradeCosmobot posted:the only thing capitalism rewards is efficiency. popularity and quality are not rewarded except, at best, indirectly and even then, capitalism is a hill-climbing algorithm and can only really find local maxima worst of all worlds
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2018 06:18
|
|
|
infernal machines posted:this is weird to me because poor neighbourhoods in the city are full of fruit and vegetable shops, cash only, that sell fresh produce for next to nothing.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2018 06:21
|
|
|
Hint: most ways of measuring "food deserts" ignore the distances people are willing to/able to travel by grossly underestimating those distances, and are also rarely applied in say, rich suburbs. Despite the fact that if you were to apply the same rules it would declare that a bunch of white people with tons of money would be at total lack of food, which might cause you to question why you accept that poor people in the city are said to be poor benighted sufferers of food deprivation because they don't eat fashionable enough food
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2018 06:28
|
|
|
Xaris posted:just curious, is your poor neighborhoods migrant-oriented or is it like poor french/british "natives"? that's the big difference. id assume US has a lot more poor "native" population than canada does. mpst poor migrants have cooking more ingrained as a cultural aspect (mostly due to not having other options) and have not yet been absorbed in the frozen/fastfood vortex (there is not much wrong with that, despite stupid neoliberalism garbage that wants you to think so). but its not the poor hispanics or vietnamese recent migrants working underpaid at a nail salon for 60 hrs a week that are buying Stouffers Frozen Salsibury Steak Lasagna now on sale 2 for $4, they're more likely to shop at the extremely cheap fruit n vegetable shop . Its moreso in america the poor white people because white people have no culture and having grown up with options and locationally due to the way they congregated bc of conservative and neolib policies over the last 40+ years both in toronto and the suburb i grew up in they're primarily ethnic first/second gen immigrant neighbourhoods, which i suppose would explain the difference
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2018 06:32
|
|
|
infernal machines posted:i'm generalizing from where i've lived, but even out in the suburbs it wasn't more than a 20 minute walk to one of the ethnic shops that had produce and usually some frozen meats. case in point here: 20 minute walk? that's about a 1 mile walk, give or take most "food desert" measurements say that something more than a mile travel away essentially doesn't exist, a mile is too far to have gone to get that fruit. so even if they do bother to mark such less-formal food shops down on their lists, it would be recorded as out of scope for a large chunk of the people who use it. many studies would consider a produce-only store not to count as all, because they hold a traditional supermarket to be the minimum, even in the many places where people expect to hit up a butcher for their meat, a bakery for their baked products, the fruit stall for the fruit, etc.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2018 06:35
|
|
|
ah, yeah i can see how that would produce largely bullshit results
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2018 06:36
|
|
|
like, obviously a person who did need to do several separate walks to get the food should be marked down as having more of a burden, and that's a useful thing to track. but the usual standards are based on like, having access to suburb-typical stores, yet being measured within a city with travel limits set at "the most you could get a lazy suburbanite to walk" and so you get vast swathes of cities marked off as some terrible no good food zone even though the residents are likely to be using more fresh materials than The Joneses in generic suburb who make 65k a year and don't bother to cook fancy.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2018 06:40
|
|
|
PCjr sidecar posted:personal favorite is the drinking moderate amounts of wine makes u healthier study and a generation of teetotalers drinking a glass a day that they don’t enjoy the backlash against the alcohol industry is going to be vicious when it comes they've spent billions of dollars across a hundred years lying to americans about the health impact of alcohol, and sooner or later, people are gonna get sick of 80,000 deaths a year and start wondering wtf is up with that industry see also: what happened to big tobacco
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2018 06:51
|
|
|
H.P. Hovercraft posted:when "clean eating" rules out frozen or canned vegetables it kinda reveals itself to be the class signifier it actually is wait what who are the freaks who think frozen veg is bad
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2018 06:53
|
|
|
fishmech posted:case in point here: 20 minute walk? that's about a 1 mile walk, give or take not every city is new york "food deserts" are real and they suck real bad to live in, even if some rich white people are bad at measuring the phenomenon ain't nobody walking a mile through urban houston to visit three individual shops
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2018 06:55
|
|
|
Notorious b.s.d. posted:not every city is new york in urban houston, the poor have cars, or have a reliable ride from someone because otherwise they are not getting to work
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2018 06:56
|
|
|
fishmech posted:in urban houston, the poor have cars, or have a reliable ride from someone because otherwise they are not getting to work right so this is where the whole "food desert" thing comes from not everyone has a car. many of the people who do not have cars also do not have jobs! because it is hard to hold a job without a car. for houston, specifically, the figure is 8.1% of households do not own a car, at all. that's a lot of loving people. (and, since houston has unusually large city limits, the figure is actually accurate -- the houston suburbs are all part of the same government unit as houston itself, because texas allows annexation) -- poor transportation makes you poor, and then you can't even buy decent food because you're poor and your transportation sucks. and there's no particular reason it has to be that way a hundred years ago, the middle class and the working class often lived in the same neighborhoods and shopped in the same groceries, and that's just not true anymore, and we haven't worked out a way to provide basic services without the cross-subsidy
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2018 06:58
|
|
|
Notorious b.s.d. posted:right so this is where the whole "food desert" thing comes from which goes to show the food desert term is essentially useless the guy without a car or any access to one in urban houston would not have his needs suited because there was a whole foods a half mile away, where he could not afford to shop. Notorious b.s.d. posted:poor transportation makes you poor, and then you can't even buy decent food because you're poor and your transportation sucks. and there's no particular reason it has to be that way there's long history of middle class and working class neighborhoods being segregated from each other, and plenty of mixing of the two now. "eating from whole foods" isn't a basic service. also the selection they had when there was "cross-subsidy" looks a hell of a lot more like a dollar store than a fancy modern supermarket's selection. fishmech fucked around with this message at 07:11 on Dec 8, 2018 |
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2018 07:00
|
|
|
fishmech have you tried being hungry and only having gas station crackers nearby? imagine that everyday. thats a food desert. and it does exist (outside of new england anyway, and actually in there as well :/).
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2018 07:09
|
|
|
Krankenstyle posted:fishmech have you tried being hungry and only having gas station crackers nearby? the hell is a gas station cracker, besides half of denmark
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2018 07:12
|
|
|
fishmech posted:there's long history of middle class and working class neighborhoods being segregated from each other, and plenty of mixing of the two now. "eating from whole foods" isn't a basic service. also the selection they had when there was "cross-subsidy" looks a hell of a lot more like a dollar store than a fancy modern supermarket's selection. yes there used to be such a thing as a non-super market, just a regular rear end market. you went to the dry goods store for dry goods, and you went to the grocer for produce, and that was that despite very different foods consumed, the stores overlapped
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2018 07:14
|
|
|
fishmech posted:the guy without a car or any access to one in urban houston would not have his needs suited because there was a whole foods a half mile away, where he could not afford to shop. who gives a drat about whole foods ? you are the only one talking about whole foods there exist places in the united states where not having a car means subsisting on snack foods because the corner markets have all dried up and blown away that is an unpleasant experience for poor people who are stuck in those neighborhoods
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2018 07:16
|
|
|
Notorious b.s.d. posted:yes there used to be such a thing as a non-super market, just a regular rear end market. you went to the dry goods store for dry goods, and you went to the grocer for produce, and that was that and the grocer had very poo poo selection by modern standards because now we're talking about 1925 and your mixed working class/middle class neighborhood isn't exactly filled with fresh tomatoes flown up from brazil in february. rather it would look more like... a 7-11's fruit rack. and a bunch of canned goods. wow, it's almost like it's the exact sorts of things easily available in poor areas today! Notorious b.s.d. posted:who gives a drat about whole foods ? you are the only one talking about whole foods the entire conversation started with an article obsessed with whole foods. yes and? those places generally had everything else dry up and blow away too. also let's not even get into how a lot of snack foods are exactly what middle class people eat all the time. there's some serious disconnection between what food desert tries to say and the reality of the siutation.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2018 07:17
|
|
|
fishmech posted:the hell is a gas station cracker, besides half of denmark you know what it is, but good job. classic fishmech.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2018 07:40
|
|
|
Krankenstyle posted:you know what it is, but good job. classic fishmech. I have no idea what you mean though. An american gas station in an urban area is going to be a reasonably sized Bodega selection or have a convenience store selection. Most of what you need, even some minor selection of fresh fruit and vegetables, at the least canned of both. They're not just going to have crackers
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2018 07:45
|
|
|
i have never seen produce in a gas station, ever, in my entire life what the gently caress country do you live in, fishmech
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2018 07:49
|
|
|
7/11 doesn't carry produce either
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2018 07:50
|
|
|
"food deserts don't exist," i said, while tabulating the engineer's scores on my 400th ride of the 9:18 am southbound 5 train "everyplace is actually new york"
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2018 07:50
|
|
|
Notorious b.s.d. posted:i have never seen produce in a gas station, ever, in my entire life Try leaving your restaurant sometime waiter. You act like you never even touched a 7-11 or a wawa
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2018 08:04
|
|
|
do you think a slurpee is fresh produce or something
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2018 08:46
|
|
|
wawa does not sell produce either unless you mean like... the precut fruit cups???
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2018 08:49
|
|
|
"Oh yeah, the fresh produce at the chevron is lit" - No one, because that's not a thing
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2018 09:04
|
|
|
Notorious b.s.d. posted:i have never seen produce in a gas station, ever, in my entire life ive seen bananas at gas station. check and mate lib 
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2018 09:42
|
|
|
ive seen bananas at gas stations in maine before
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2018 09:56
|
|
|
Xaris posted:ive seen bananas at gas station. check and mate lib screw u!!!
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2018 09:56
|
|
|
yeah I think bananas and apples are the fruit I usually see at gas stations and apples don't count because they're basically candy masquerading as food
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2018 10:12
|
|
|
Munkeymon posted:yeah I think bananas and apples are the fruit I usually see at gas stations and apples don't count because they're basically candy masquerading as food 100 years ago corner stores only had apples and bananas too
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2018 10:13
|
|
|
i think it's time to post this classic again https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11nsZ3lEWD0
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2018 10:26
|
|
|
agreed i just ate some rye bread w pork tho cause i gotta have some of that heavy stuff in my gut
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2018 10:49
|
|
|
7-11's in japan do carry some really basic but overpriced food items like milk and a 4-pack of eggs (in addition to all kinds of ready-made fast food bento boxen), but if you are suggesting that someone live off only that, you're insane food desert is a perfectly accurate term here - even in a real desert, there are still some animals who persist, but the food is really scarce
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2018 11:08
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 09:14 |
|
|
Krankenstyle posted:dear god, fishmech stymie & shaggar quoted each other... tis as the prophecy foretold: as the fool’s money comes tumbling down and the acrobat becomes a prude the gimmick three each other will quote and on the desktop, a lone penguin
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2018 14:06
|
|
