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Popete posted:I understand the problems with Steam and how it can be pretty tough for an indie studio to stomach that %30 cut. But shifting from one client to another just because of smaller % cut savings isn't really ideal either. Asking your fan base to install yet another distribution platform for your game is a bit of a stretch. Game fans are used to being catered to with price and convenience, and a game itself is an entire experience the wraps around the player and tries to meet their expectations in every way. I get that the platform whining is extremely entitled, and platforms themselves with their millions of dollars and taking one third of profits as a matter of fact also comes across as being entitled. Smaller game developers are kinda caught in the middle. I dislike clients enough that I'm willing to wait for this game to come out on GOG, if it ever does. Guess that's my entitlement, but at least I'm not gonna whine about it. Do what you like, mister developer man, and I hope you get the money. You hold out long enough, and your game is good enough, I'll probably buy it your way anyhow. But to be completely honest, I'm not the kinda guy who buys on day one. This move to be Epic-exclusive is not to capture my dollar.
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Dec 7, 2018 23:41
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Not really whining about it, I'll either buy it or I won't. I'm saying it's a legit issue for many people that do not want to install another piece of software on their home computers just to play this one game. I sympathize with the developers and I'm not even saying what they are doing is wrong, it's just a choice that is going to have repercussions. Maybe it works out for them in the end, maybe not. I'm lamenting the fact that I'm tired of having to install more platforms to play video games just to appease the whims of publishers/developers/distributes with seemingly no benefit to me the user, if anything it's a detriment. I said before, I'd have been fine with them just selling the game off their own website as a download and them keeping %100 of profits a'la Star Sector.
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Dec 7, 2018 23:45
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Popete posted:Not really whining about it, I'll either buy it or I won't. I'm saying it's a legit issue for many people that do not want to install another piece of software on their home computers just to play this one game. I think you're being reasonable about it, fwiw. If people buying games were rational actors, we'd see long term changes among these companies running the stores so we don't have to make the choice of 6 different platforms but well, lol. As a whole, despite individual exceptions, we're not.  The only thing I'd point out is selling a game off your own site does require a lot of infrastructure - payment processing, account management, storage and bandwidth. that's a lot of time and resources I'm sure they'd rather put into the game and outsource to a store where a lot of that work has already been done by someone else.
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Dec 7, 2018 23:50
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Popete posted:I said before, I'd have been fine with them just selling the game off their own website as a download and them keeping %100 of profits a'la Star Sector. And you know what - Steam lets them do that. You can literally do this, right now. Valve lets you generate as many keys to sell by yourself as you want. And they don't take a cut of that. The whole idea that this whole thing is some kind of "community driven" "by the people" uprising against evil Steam is absurd. It's one Megacorporation being mad that another Megacorporation is making more money than they do. Devs are literally just chess pieces they are shoving around in their PR war.
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Dec 7, 2018 23:51
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And to be clear, a big reason for why everyone gets pissy whenever a publisher rolls out a new storefront is that over half of the major ones were(and some still are) poo poo when they first got released. I don't mean they lack the features of Steam(they do), but implemented features just not working properly, including, y'know, playing your game. Buying poo poo on a new platform when history gives you at best a 50/50 shot of stuff being acceptably mediocre while Steam is right there is a big ask.
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Dec 8, 2018 00:36
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I don´t really give a poo poo whether I need a new launcher or whatever but if this set some kind of fire under the bloated, lazy mess that Steam has become then I´ll be satisfied.
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Dec 8, 2018 00:47
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Sylphosaurus posted:I don´t really give a poo poo whether I need a new launcher or whatever but if this set some kind of fire under the bloated, lazy mess that Steam has become then I´ll be satisfied. It won't, just like the other hundred new launchers before it haven't.
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Dec 8, 2018 01:16
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Just so we're all clear, not one person has said what the cost of installing not-steam is to them. Also so that those who are just lurking are clear, it is a parade of steam thread regulars posting right now.
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Dec 8, 2018 01:33
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It costs running another client in the background (a thing I do not like to do) and managing more accounts and shuffling through launchers to find the game I want to play. I don't really care about defending Steam, I find it easy to use cause I've been on it for so long but I recognize it's faults and that for indie devs there is a strong draw to go elsewhere. This game doesn't need to launch of Steam for me to be happy, but swapping out one large companies software platform for another isn't an ideal solution to the problem.
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Dec 8, 2018 01:40
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Let's ask Bethesda fans that question
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Dec 8, 2018 01:41
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Zigmidge posted:Just so we're all clear, not one person has said what the cost of installing not-steam is to them. Do you have like... some kind of grudge or axe to grind, or something?
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Dec 8, 2018 01:45
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Popete posted:a thing I do not like to do Thank you, some honesty about what we're actually talking about is what I wanted and its fine to not do something you don't like to do but there is a long list of technical bullshit being thrown around as excuse. What I see is a game that we've all been staining our collars with sweat over the last 9 years pining for and it's here and it will absolutely rely on day 1 sales figures plus a steady enough stream to fund more development but we don't want to install another client because a different loving awful one got there first.
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Dec 8, 2018 01:50
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Zigmidge posted:Thank you, some honesty about what we're actually talking about is what I wanted and its fine to not do something you don't like to do but there is a long list of technical bullshit being thrown around as excuse. It’s on the RGO dev team for choosing to put it only on EG’s store, not on people for not consuming media just because they feel they have to. They’ve even said it will go on steam eventually, so the reasons for not doing it now narrow a lot, and that profit split is sounding very loud right now on that list of reasons. It’s funny that you roll in here accusing people of being corporate shills while also defending the dumb decision of a corporation. Also go ahead and look for my posts on the steam thread, tell me how much of a shill I am for valve. I’ll wait. LITERALLY MY FETISH fucked around with this message at 02:22 on Dec 8, 2018 |
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Dec 8, 2018 02:19
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This is literally the stupidest possible conversation to be having about this topic.
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Dec 8, 2018 02:24
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I don't know why it's incumbent upon people to explain why they don't want something. The burden is on the thing itself to be good enough to want. If it's unavoidable and doesn't provide a good reason to take up space (on a PC, on a person's conscious mind), it's gonna create resentment.
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Dec 8, 2018 02:27
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I'm super psyched for this game and also the lot of you are loving awful. Alo this:Psycho Landlord posted:This is literally the stupidest possible conversation to be having about this topic.
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Dec 8, 2018 02:33
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Zigmidge posted:Thank you, some honesty about what we're actually talking about is what I wanted and its fine to not do something you don't like to do but there is a long list of technical bullshit being thrown around as excuse. There are legitimate reasons to not run a piece of software on your computer that serves no purpose but to launch games. At the bare minimum it consumes resources (albeit minimal) but there are security as well as personal data concerns as well. This isn't just a crusade against Steam competitors it's about software bloat on modern systems and people getting tired off having to "subscribe" to a billion services just to get access to something. This is a bigger thing than just video games, see Netlix/Hulu/Prime etc...
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Dec 8, 2018 03:00
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Popete posted:I understand the problems with Steam and how it can be pretty tough for an indie studio to stomach that %30 cut. The 30% cut that is pretty much industry standard. GoG and Origin take it too. If you wanted less the only options pre Epic were itch.io and humble. I'm not that concerned with this one or Epic in general but Bethesda's data leak means I'm going to have to miss out on a slew of great looking upcoming games as I can't trust them.
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Dec 8, 2018 11:47
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i saw this at the game awards and couldn't contain my excitement. aw hell yes, not only a rebel galaxy sequel, but a freelancer clone to boot. aw yiss, aww fukken yiss
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Dec 9, 2018 04:48
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Radio Free Kobold posted:i saw this at the game awards and couldn't contain my excitement. aw hell yes, not only a rebel galaxy sequel, but a freelancer clone to boot. aw yiss, aww fukken yiss the thread title strikes again  there's a lot which is very specifically Privateer, but you're not wrong since Freelancer drew from the same well
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Dec 9, 2018 04:52
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Honestly my issue is that I already get annoyed at having to go "was this game on this launcher?" "no, what about this one?" "gently caress its this one". So on my PC i'd have Origin, Epic, Steam, Uplay, etc etc. I get it, you want your own storefront, everyone does. I'll just wait for it to come to a bigger platform. loving lol that I apparently have to get it on some other lovely platform to support their own dumbass decision.
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Dec 9, 2018 04:56
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dogstile posted:Honestly my issue is that I already get annoyed at having to go "was this game on this launcher?" "no, what about this one?" "gently caress its this one". With Steam I've always had it make a start menu shortcut so I can hit winkey, type 'fact' and hit enter to get, at this point, Factorio I expect I'll be able to do the same with Epic's store if it isn't a piece of poo poo, but haven't bought anything on it just yet (not DLing fortnite again lmao)
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Dec 9, 2018 05:07
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I create start menu shortcuts for all games and let all the store front apps run in the background and disable all overlays except Steam. I have no issues.
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Dec 9, 2018 05:12
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My internet speed is lovely enough that having them open and decide to update kinda sucks 
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Dec 9, 2018 05:22
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Personally I am a little worried because I doubt Epic is planning to implement digital pricing for ASEAN any time soon. The regional pricing Steam offers really takes the sting out of buying 30 USD games. At most it'll just delay me getting the game, i guess. I do like the idea of Steam having some more competition, and at least this isn't a video streaming situation where you have to pay a rental fee to use a service.
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Dec 9, 2018 06:40
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I mean, not to delve into the storefront debate too much, but it seems like a bit of a Catch-22, if you want to develop a storefront/launcher platform you need a market for it and snagging cool new indie titles like this is a way to cultivate exclusives or hype to get people to use your launcher, but people despite saying they want competition don't want to use multiple store fronts. I get running multiple clients and launchers can be annoying, but if everyone can just get everyone from one stop, they're not really going to try and migrate over to another service or dip into both. It kind of reminds me of the whole digital streaming service splits happening now with Netflix/Hulu/Disney and others. Was it baller when all the shows we wanted to watch were on one or two platforms and we just had to pay 10 bucks to see everything? Yes, but was it naive to expect it to stay that way when companies could smell money in the water? For the actual game, I'm pumped to play it, I've been jonesing for a new Freelancer for more than ten years, I miss jumping into a dumpy freighter and being able to just cruise around and find cool spots or forgotten loot.
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Dec 9, 2018 19:57
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Psion posted:the thread title strikes again My introduction to Freelancer clones was, well, Freelancer, and even then it was through mods, way after its prime. I was too young to be around for Privateer, so why not enlighten me? What distinguished Privateer from its successors, and what do we see of that in Outlaw? Why do you say very specifically Privateer?
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Dec 9, 2018 20:00
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Radio Free Kobold posted:My introduction to Freelancer clones was, well, Freelancer, and even then it was through mods, way after its prime. I was too young to be around for Privateer, so why not enlighten me? What distinguished Privateer from its successors, and what do we see of that in Outlaw? Why do you say very specifically Privateer? As I understand it, Freelancer was derived from Privateer by the same dude, Chris Roberts who know sells people .jpgs of spaceships. Freelancer was designed to be more accessible, and was designed from the start to be played with mouse and keyboard.
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Dec 9, 2018 23:06
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Radio Free Kobold posted:My introduction to Freelancer clones was, well, Freelancer, and even then it was through mods, way after its prime. I was too young to be around for Privateer, so why not enlighten me? What distinguished Privateer from its successors, and what do we see of that in Outlaw? Why do you say very specifically Privateer? The look and feel they have going on is reminiscent of a lot of how Privateer did, I guess, 'visual style' - it's not a copy, they're obviously putting their own work in, but there's a whole lot of small things that add up to say "these guys are definitely Privateer fans." The PDA, the ship they fly looking like a Centurion, a lot of the camera angles (launching from a station, fitting out your ship, the bar, the mission terminal, one of the space stations, the guilds...) just a lot of little touches. So many I'd have a lot of trouble chalking it up to coincidence. It's less about big gameplay things and more about the world they're putting those into. Freelancer's world was pretty sterile, Privateer's was dirty and lived in. So's Outlaw. also, https://twitter.com/RebelGalaxy/status/1038139959243243520 Groetgaffel posted:As I understand it, Freelancer was derived from Privateer by the same dude, Chris Roberts who know sells people .jpgs of spaceships. Freelancer was designed to be more accessible, and was designed from the start to be played with mouse and keyboard. More or less, yes. Privateer was Origin (Roberts only did the executive producer role and some original design work - he didn't run the whole show, which may be why it actually released) and then he tried again with Freelancer but hosed it up badly enough MS had to step in, buy Digital Anvil, and chop it into a releasable state years and years late and wildly overbudget. There are some interesting parallels with the Freelancer story and Star Citizen, but that's for another thread. Psion fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Dec 9, 2018 |
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Dec 9, 2018 23:38
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Psion posted:the thread title strikes again Rebel Galaxy Outlaw - It's Basically Privateer 2019 Rebel Galaxy Outlaw - Privateer and/or Freelancer Out 2019 are two ideas I could come up with. Give me something good and I'll PM a mod to change the title.
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Dec 10, 2018 00:17
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I'm ridiculously happy that there's a spaceship game that will let me paint the thing however I drat please without limiting me to a set of premade skins or inflicting macrotransactions on me
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Dec 10, 2018 00:29
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Psion posted:More or less, yes. Privateer was Origin (Roberts only did the executive producer role and some original design work - he didn't run the whole show, which may be why it actually released) and then he tried again with Freelancer but hosed it up badly enough MS had to step in, buy Digital Anvil, and chop it into a releasable state years and years late and wildly overbudget. There are some interesting parallels with the Freelancer story and Star Citizen, but that's for another thread.
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Dec 10, 2018 00:31
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Radio Free Kobold posted:? What distinguished Privateer from its successors, and what do we see of that in Outlaw? Why do you say very specifically Privateer? I played a shitload of Privateer way back in the day(yes I'm old) and looking at the Outlaw screenshots certainly gives me nostalgia for Privateer. There isn't any particular thing, just a whole lot of little things that are reminiscent in the design. It's not enough to worry about though, the thread title is fine as Freelancer was definitely an evolution of Privateer anyway.
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Dec 10, 2018 08:30
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On the distribution front: I don't like it because having to manage yet another series of auth details for yet another service-that-has-one-thing is annoying. Just like Origin/Uplay I'll have to do it if I want to play, and just like Origin/Uplay it'll build up a nice chunk of bad will towards the dev every time it fucks up. The hilarious part of all of this is the cry of Epic being good for devs while completely forgetting why Epic has this spare cash all of a sudden. On Privateer: I don't know how to quantify why I still hold it in such high regard. It's probably because I haven't gone back to play it again. It had janky control, view-obstructing cockpits, turrets you had to man yourself, and a small number of ships where you obviously just wanted to get the one that looked like a fighter jet. The weapons were pretty much a straight power increase as well. It was linear and most of the game was just earning money to get to the fighter jet then earning more money for all your best modules then clearing the story. Here's a Chris Roberts-approved cockpit:  The thing was it felt like you were a space cowboy. Rebel Galaxy, during those trips in warp when the music kicked in, approached that but never quite made it there. You could capture escape pods and sell enemies into slavery. You could haul space drugs and run from the cops. Pirates/cops/stations had voiced lines if you bought (or pirated) the voice expansion pack. These are all stupid basic things but they helped it feel like you really were just running your lovely rustbucket spaceship from planet to planet dreaming of one day accomplishing something. Then, because this isn't Elite, you did accomplish something and it was great. I really liked WC2 but I absolutely crapped myself over Privateer because it felt so different despite being mechanically almost identical. This is really where Elite, X4 and whatever bullshit SC promises to be all fail. Owning the Millennium Falcon doesn't make you Han Solo no matter what fidelity it's rendered at or how good the flight model is. Han Solo exists in a storyline and a world, which are missing from things featuring space flight currently. If RGO delivers good flight and a good world/plot, then they're alone on the current market. Here endeth my praise of Privateer. Now to go to GoG...
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Dec 10, 2018 09:03
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I really like that cockpit, for the game, and for its time. It looks like something a trader would use on his crappy hauler. Nowadays, I don't like buttons I can't push, and lights that don't mean anything in cockpits, but clunky consoles on slower ships that actually say something about the tiny tin world my character spends most of his time in? Yes, please. I can just see my guy resting his feet on that thing and whacking it on the side when it doesn't pull the prices in from Butthole 12, twirling a cigar in the stale recycled air. I honestly don't know--given how hard I bounced off of Rebel Galaxy once the basic gameplay loop became stale--whether Outlaw is going to hold my attention, but it sure provides an alternative to the sterile military look of space video games.
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Dec 10, 2018 11:11
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Also you didn't have to man the turrets. There were a few AI settings for them.
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Dec 10, 2018 12:03
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Hope they keep the custom soundtracks feature from the first game.
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Dec 10, 2018 14:59
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Hope they keep that bomb-rear end space trucker rockabilly soundtrack from the first game.
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Dec 10, 2018 19:08
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on the steam/epic thing-- isn't like 75% of the sales going to be on Playstation or Xbox anyways- doubt they are getting a discount there. If this is a game truly meant to be played with a controller (one of their videos basically said as much) I wonder if I just should buy in for my PS4 Pro? I have both Steam and Epic, but dont play controller games on them.
highmodulus fucked around with this message at 19:48 on Dec 10, 2018 |
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Dec 10, 2018 19:35
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Radio Free Kobold posted:Hope they keep that bomb-rear end space trucker rockabilly soundtrack from the first game. good news, they're not just keeping it they're expanding it. A lot. Mailer posted:On Privateer: I don't know how to quantify why I still hold it in such high regard. I think you answered your own question. It managed to sell a world experience, and sold it really well. Take just cockpits, since you posted a screenshot of one. The claustrophobic shitbox cockpit of the Tarsus really helps sell the ship as part of the world, a broken-down piece of crap part. It meant something when you got an upgrade, be it the armored brick of an Orion or the freighter Galaxy or the fighter Centurion. And the entire game was like this, soundtrack to art to flight model. I bet if I posted all 4 cockpits from Privateer and said 'guess what role this ship has' I bet most people could figure out which one is which out of shitbox, brawler, cargo hauler, fighter. I don't think most games could but Privateer could. Psion fucked around with this message at 19:50 on Dec 10, 2018 |
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Dec 10, 2018 19:41
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